Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!

[oggsmash]

I'm not convinced. You're argument remains that it's obvious and anybody not agreeing with you is an idiot for reasons without digging any deeper. We can all agree that China has a despotic state that nobody wants to see copied in other nations, in fact our own countries leaders who are fuckwits agree that China is a despotic state that nobody wants to see copies in other nations. Your interpretation of events is extreme and needs a bit more than stating anybody who disagrees is stupid.

It's more than that though Keiro. If it was a single conspiracy theory I'd be more inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt but you've signed up to all of them. There's no simple reason for anything that happens, it's all some overarching bullshit, I don't like that because it affects our ability to engage over anything. There's no nuance and I have to admit it means I can't talk to you when I see that facts have been uncovered that change my mind over smaller things that still don't mean that there's a giant conspiracy. The rabbit hole isn't good for any of us.

You're the frog in the pot who can't tell the water is heating up around him. Good luck.

I know, you're a wild eyed loner standing at the gates of Oblivion on the last freedom moped out of Nowhere city and you haven't even told your parents that what time you'll be back.

Given that there's no nuance, no possibility that anything you declare as obvious fact can be wrong, what's you're next step? I see people taking action over stuff like the climate crisis. I know you disagree with them but what you're presenting is clearly just as much of an existential threat so what are you doing? You're clearly not trying to convince people who disagree.

  What actions have they taken and could you give me numbers as to the difference those actions have made?   Do you honestly believe humans are at an existential threat from Climate crisis/change/warming/cooling/wtf every people are calling it created by humans?   

[Garry G]

  I think one of the problems around seeing things governments have done and admitted to in the past makes it clear that the stuff they have been caught for shows they will do anything.  Given the same sorts of terrible people run governments today as in bygone days when they did terrible shit they admitted to later means they are still going to do terrible shit, the admitting to is the part in question, not what they are capable of. 

    These people are running ant farms and only care about the overall condition of the colony (meaning if a bunch of ants die they do not give a shit as long as they get what they want from the colony) not the lives and quality of experience of the ants.  Trusting in government at this point has become its own religion, the people who do it are simply unwilling to veer from their god.   Some may even be willing to be sacrifices to that god.

I don't know how to parse this. People are aware that governments have done terrible shit before and continue to be aware of it. People protest, sometimes work within the system to change the behaviour of governments and in extreme circumstances overthrow them. This is all stuff that is going on right now. Not believing that there's an international Chinese conspiracy to inflict a social credit system on the whole wide world doesn't mean that people trust their governments on anything else. The UK government is a fucking mess, in fact one of their recent attempts to get people like Kiero onside is attacking the idea of 15 minute cities, so if having them in power is part of the Global Hegemony then it's not very good. In fact it's the opposite of good, it's beyond that it's gone through some sort bad event horizon and become something else.

I get it, government is bad because it does bad stuff. I'm all up for identifying the bad and working against it but we don't need mad nonsense for this.

[Garry G]

I'm not convinced. You're argument remains that it's obvious and anybody not agreeing with you is an idiot for reasons without digging any deeper. We can all agree that China has a despotic state that nobody wants to see copied in other nations, in fact our own countries leaders who are fuckwits agree that China is a despotic state that nobody wants to see copies in other nations. Your interpretation of events is extreme and needs a bit more than stating anybody who disagrees is stupid.

It's more than that though Keiro. If it was a single conspiracy theory I'd be more inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt but you've signed up to all of them. There's no simple reason for anything that happens, it's all some overarching bullshit, I don't like that because it affects our ability to engage over anything. There's no nuance and I have to admit it means I can't talk to you when I see that facts have been uncovered that change my mind over smaller things that still don't mean that there's a giant conspiracy. The rabbit hole isn't good for any of us.

You're the frog in the pot who can't tell the water is heating up around him. Good luck.

I know, you're a wild eyed loner standing at the gates of Oblivion on the last freedom moped out of Nowhere city and you haven't even told your parents that what time you'll be back.

Given that there's no nuance, no possibility that anything you declare as obvious fact can be wrong, what's you're next step? I see people taking action over stuff like the climate crisis. I know you disagree with them but what you're presenting is clearly just as much of an existential threat so what are you doing? You're clearly not trying to convince people who disagree.

  What actions have they taken and could you give me numbers as to the difference those actions have made?   Do you honestly believe humans are at an existential threat from Climate crisis/change/warming/cooling/wtf every people are calling it created by humans?

You aren't aware of any climate crisis protests? Really? You've never heard of Greta Thunberg or Just Stop Oil? Okay I'll let you go and have a look. I'm surprised you haven't noticed but I suppose it's possible to be so down the rabbit hole you're only seeing what you want.

Finished looking? Okay.

The depressing thing is that the gains are few. Public perception of the problem has risen but governments have failed again and again to take on the  problem. It may not be possible to make a difference but it's important to try.

I find it perfectly reasonable to take on board that humans have had a significant impact on the climate. I know scientists are out of fashion cos experts are bad but there's broad agreement on it within the scientific community. It may prove to be the great existential threat to us.

Of course this is avoiding my actual argument, nice one, people who genuinely believe that there's a threat are making a stand. I'm asking what's being done about Kieros concerns, if us sheeple are really frogs in water shouldn't he be out there like the climate activists are?

[oggsmash]

  We do not need mad nonsense....however there is pretty much zero reason to trust any institution in the west these days other than a literal religious leap of faith.  That sort of bad track record has got people crawling down every rabbit hole one can imagine.  Maybe some are still worthy of trust....they have eroded their credibility so much though its created a whole lot of bad sentiment.  Not everyone is glomming onto everything...but only fools are going to take the official line on matters now. 

[oggsmash]

I'm not convinced. You're argument remains that it's obvious and anybody not agreeing with you is an idiot for reasons without digging any deeper. We can all agree that China has a despotic state that nobody wants to see copied in other nations, in fact our own countries leaders who are fuckwits agree that China is a despotic state that nobody wants to see copies in other nations. Your interpretation of events is extreme and needs a bit more than stating anybody who disagrees is stupid.

It's more than that though Keiro. If it was a single conspiracy theory I'd be more inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt but you've signed up to all of them. There's no simple reason for anything that happens, it's all some overarching bullshit, I don't like that because it affects our ability to engage over anything. There's no nuance and I have to admit it means I can't talk to you when I see that facts have been uncovered that change my mind over smaller things that still don't mean that there's a giant conspiracy. The rabbit hole isn't good for any of us.

You're the frog in the pot who can't tell the water is heating up around him. Good luck.

I know, you're a wild eyed loner standing at the gates of Oblivion on the last freedom moped out of Nowhere city and you haven't even told your parents that what time you'll be back.

Given that there's no nuance, no possibility that anything you declare as obvious fact can be wrong, what's you're next step? I see people taking action over stuff like the climate crisis. I know you disagree with them but what you're presenting is clearly just as much of an existential threat so what are you doing? You're clearly not trying to convince people who disagree.

  What actions have they taken and could you give me numbers as to the difference those actions have made?   Do you honestly believe humans are at an existential threat from Climate crisis/change/warming/cooling/wtf every people are calling it created by humans?

You aren't aware of any climate crisis protests? Really? You've never heard of Greta Thunberg or Just Stop Oil? Okay I'll let you go and have a look. I'm surprised you haven't noticed but I suppose it's possible to be so down the rabbit hole you're only seeing what you want.

Finished looking? Okay.

The depressing thing is that the gains are few. Public perception of the problem has risen but governments have failed again and again to take on the  problem. It may not be possible to make a difference but it's important to try.

I find it perfectly reasonable to take on board that humans have had a significant impact on the climate. I know scientists are out of fashion cos experts are bad but there's broad agreement on it within the scientific community. It may prove to be the great existential threat to us.

Of course this is avoiding my actual argument, nice one, people who genuinely believe that there's a threat are making a stand. I'm asking what's being done about Kieros concerns, if us sheeple are really frogs in water shouldn't he be out there like the climate activists are?

  Oh I see people fucking up traffic and art.  I asked what differences it had made and the numbers.  There has been no broad agreement about man made climate changes.  I do think polluters cause serious problems, but I think there is a long and more important list above *possible* climate influence.   Those protesters are not changing anything except how often they inhale their own farts to feel better about themselves.  If you are concerned about the sort of things Kiero might be...protest will not change anything (for one, you are automatically on the "right wing" side of a protest scenario...that means feds, lock up and persecution) but stocking up food, water, ammo, being fit, knowing how to fight and teaching your kids the same is the best action you could take.  I think he has probably done as many of those things as he can, as many other people I know have done. 

   Climate terror is a tool to weaponize people's concerns, fears, and religious level belief in something they can not understand for themselves.   They need a priest to hand them the truth from up on high.   Those priests constantly shift the goal posts and meaning of whatever data they collect when their predictions do not come out the right way.    I would also say unless those western protestors start protesting in China and India they are not going to get any word to the people who matter about how belching toxic stuff into the atmosphere can be harmful (but changing the world climate...uncertain).  I guess pulling bullshit in countries where you wont get beaten half to death is more to their comfort tastes.

    Toss in some very profit motivated personalities all tied up in this climate furor...and it leads me back to institutions not being so trustworthy.  This leads to the problem I mentioned before if you lie all the time I start to never believe you even when you are telling the truth.  The data and narratives are breathless agenda driven reports to "change the public thinking" when most people have a barely 3 digit iq and just trust whatever gets fed to them....that becomes a problem when the folks doing the feeding do not have what is best for society as a whole as their goal.

   

[Scooter]

I guess pulling bullshit in countries where you wont get beaten half to death is more to their comfort tastes.

Pulling that in the "country" of Florida will get you beaten half to death or more. 

[Garry G]

  We do not need mad nonsense....however there is pretty much zero reason to trust any institution in the west these days other than a literal religious leap of faith.  That sort of bad track record has got people crawling down every rabbit hole one can imagine.  Maybe some are still worthy of trust....they have eroded their credibility so much though its created a whole lot of bad sentiment.  Not everyone is glomming onto everything...but only fools are going to take the official line on matters now.

There's every reason to question our institutions at length, that's a sign of a healthy democracy. I've been very uncomfortable with the last 13yrs of the UK government, especially since recently finding out that their initial austerity agenda was based on bad data. It's amazingly bad data in which 1950's New Zealand was an outlier that was treated as as the main dataset. Covid was a shitshow but it doesn't need to be a massive global conspiracy to be a shitshow, I'm generally pro-vaccine whilst also being aware that one of the early ones killed people with out a doubt and the Chinese lab thing is absolutely possible. Doubt of our very flawed institutions should be a thing.

I'm also very critical of outsider narratives that try to present stuff as some sort of over-arching globalist conspiracy. Events don't match up with that so more evidence is needed.

[Garry G]

most people have a barely 3 digit iq and just trust whatever gets fed to them

This is your problem, you don't think you are most people.

[oggsmash]

most people have a barely 3 digit iq and just trust whatever gets fed to them

This is your problem, you don't think you are most people.

  I am not.  That is probably the real problem. 

[Scooter]

most people have a barely 3 digit iq and just trust whatever gets fed to them

This is your problem, you don't think you are most people.

Yes, "most people" didn't know that the UK gov't was imprisoning THOUSANDS of subjects over laws that criminalize upsetting another person via online posts.  Those "most people" could not have IQ's >100

[oggsmash]

  I think he took me saying 100 was most people as some sort of dig, last I checked stats and demographics that is about the average IQ in most western nations (well I think germany is 108 or some such) and thus is most people. 

[Scooter]

  I think he took me saying 100 was most people as some sort of dig, last I checked stats and demographics that is about the average IQ in most western nations (well I think germany is 108 or some such) and thus is most people.

Germany's is the same as most other Western EU derived people which is tops except for Japan & China which is a bit higher.  By definition 100 is dead center human average on the bell curve. 

[Kiero]

I know, you're a wild eyed loner standing at the gates of Oblivion on the last freedom moped out of Nowhere city and you haven't even told your parents that what time you'll be back.

Given that there's no nuance, no possibility that anything you declare as obvious fact can be wrong, what's you're next step? I see people taking action over stuff like the climate crisis. I know you disagree with them but what you're presenting is clearly just as much of an existential threat so what are you doing? You're clearly not trying to convince people who disagree.

The climate twats have the tacit support of the establishment, which is why they're allowed to carry on and are treated with kid gloves. They're also total hypocrites, which shows you how seriously they really take the "existential threat" since apparently they don't have to worry about their own carbon footprint. What with having to get away on holiday whenever it suits them. Like that stupid cow who disrupted George Osborne's (he's a cunt) wedding then jetted off to Thailand.

See the difference when people protested against lockdowns? Riot police and heavy-handed policing. Yet when BLM protested, they were handled gently. Whenever people are doing something the establishment approves of, they're left to carry on.

Why should I do anything to "convince people"? I'm not a leftard who believes collective action achieves anything. I gave up on wasting my breath on people who are invested in following the capricious and ever-changing narrative of the liars in power.

[Garry G]

  I think he took me saying 100 was most people as some sort of dig, last I checked stats and demographics that is about the average IQ in most western nations (well I think germany is 108 or some such) and thus is most people.

No, it's the normal nonsense of you implying you're smarter than most people and thus superior.

[Garry G]

I know, you're a wild eyed loner standing at the gates of Oblivion on the last freedom moped out of Nowhere city and you haven't even told your parents that what time you'll be back.

Given that there's no nuance, no possibility that anything you declare as obvious fact can be wrong, what's you're next step? I see people taking action over stuff like the climate crisis. I know you disagree with them but what you're presenting is clearly just as much of an existential threat so what are you doing? You're clearly not trying to convince people who disagree.

The climate twats have the tacit support of the establishment, which is why they're allowed to carry on and are treated with kid gloves. They're also total hypocrites, which shows you how seriously they really take the "existential threat" since apparently they don't have to worry about their own carbon footprint. What with having to get away on holiday whenever it suits them. Like that stupid cow who disrupted George Osborne's (he's a cunt) wedding then jetted off to Thailand.

See the difference when people protested against lockdowns? Riot police and heavy-handed policing. Yet when BLM protested, they were handled gently. Whenever people are doing something the establishment approves of, they're left to carry on.

Why should I do anything to "convince people"? I'm not a leftard who believes collective action achieves anything. I gave up on wasting my breath on people who are invested in following the capricious and ever-changing narrative of the liars in power.

There you go. You're part of the problem, not any problem that is real in my eyes but part of all the problems that you witter about. You bitch on t'internet about stuff you think is believe is going to lead to a hellish dystopia but do nothing about it. I'm fairly certain you barely mention it in real life.

You've dropped out of doing any action and think that blethering shite on an obscure forum about an obscure hobby makes you in any way meaningful. Dropping out of everything makes sure that you'll never have any effect on anything. You're the ultimate sheeple, completely unable to affect the world around you. I honestly thought better of you, I remember when you wanted to stand as a candidate for your local council.

I don't believe in your frankly nuts conspiracy theories but if I did I'd do my best to fight against what they plan. This is quite sad.