Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!

[Kiero]

The fact you cannot work out for yourself the answer to that last question demonstrates to everyone here just how fucking dumb you are. This level of logic is obvious to a 3rd grader but you don't grok it. I mean at this point I have to wonder if I am being overly harsh to someone with special needs and should adjust my tone to be kinder.

Bless, the cognitive dissonance must be hard, knowing you fell for it.

[Mistwell]

[Mistwell]

This is just the past several months here in the US

[jhkim]

I never got the impression that the vaccine would stop the spread, any more than it was absolute protection. I was told by my doctor and medical friends that it was projected to improve one's odds by a significant factor.

   Now I can understand if you personally knew it was not going to stop the spread (this was common sense given speed of mutation)  but you seem to be acting as if you never heard or got an impression from some authority at any point, on the talking box that the vax was there to stop the spread..... weird.

As implied by my statement, I formed by my impression from talking with my doctor and medically-trained friends. I don't watch any broadcast television, and while I do watch streaming, I rarely watch politicians at all, and certainly don't watch them for medical advice.

I would agree that starting from Trump and his administration, the vaccines have been oversold - but political speech and public messaging are almost always exaggerated. Take Trump's vaccine announcement, for example:

Today our nation has achieved a medical miracle. We have delivered a safe and effective vaccine in just nine months. It is one of the greatest scientific accomplishments in history. It will save millions of lives and soon end the pandemic once and for all.
I am thrilled to report that the FDA has authorized the Pfizer vaccine.

These vaccines are also very safe. American citizens participated in clinical trials that were far larger than normal, and had no serious side effects. The dedicated and independent experts at the FDA meticulously studied the results of the trials, and it has now passed the gold standard of safety.

I certainly didn't just take Trump at his word. I talked to the doctors I knew, which was the basis for my decision - as it is the basis for my medical decisions in general.

[Kiero]

I certainly didn't just take Trump at his word. I talked to the doctors I knew, which was the basis for my decision - as it is the basis for my medical decisions in general.

How much did your "medically trained" friends profit from jabbing people?

Because in spite of covid apparently meaning doctors couldn't see patients face to face for months on end here, they never stopped with the jabs. Which they were paid £12.50 per person, with an additonal £10 for under-18s.

My local surgery devoted itself to doing nothing else for a long period, they were a "regional vaccination centre".

[jhkim]

I certainly didn't just take Trump at his word. I talked to the doctors I knew, which was the basis for my decision - as it is the basis for my medical decisions in general.

How much did your "medically trained" friends profit from jabbing people?

Because in spite of covid apparently meaning doctors couldn't see patients face to face for months on end here, they never stopped with the jabs. Which they were paid £12.50 per person, with an additonal £10 for under-18s.

Both my parents are medical doctors (retired pediatrician and psychiatrist), and I have a sister with a PhD in genetics. All of them got themselves vaccinated, and had no involvement in giving vaccination to anyone else. I also have a few friends who are medical doctors as well whom I trust, who were uninvolved in my getting a vaccination, at least.

[Mistwell]

I certainly didn't just take Trump at his word. I talked to the doctors I knew, which was the basis for my decision - as it is the basis for my medical decisions in general.

How much did your "medically trained" friends profit from jabbing people?

Because in spite of covid apparently meaning doctors couldn't see patients face to face for months on end here, they never stopped with the jabs. Which they were paid £12.50 per person, with an additonal £10 for under-18s.

My local surgery devoted itself to doing nothing else for a long period, they were a "regional vaccination centre".

You seriously think nearly every doctor on the planet betrayed their oath and ethics over !2.50 a shot? What, like doctors were so hurting for income? You really are the dumbest fuck.

[Ratman_tf]

The C.D.C. Isn't Publishing Large Portions of the Covid Data It Collects
The agency has withheld critical data on boosters, hospitalizations and, until recently, wastewater analyses.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/20/health/covid-cdc-data.html

[Ratman_tf]

I never got the impression that the vaccine would stop the spread, any more than it was absolute protection. I was told by my doctor and medical friends that it was projected to improve one's odds by a significant factor.

   Now I can understand if you personally knew it was not going to stop the spread (this was common sense given speed of mutation)  but you seem to be acting as if you never heard or got an impression from some authority at any point, on the talking box that the vax was there to stop the spread..... weird.

As implied by my statement, I formed by my impression from talking with my doctor and medically-trained friends. I don't watch any broadcast television, and while I do watch streaming, I rarely watch politicians at all, and certainly don't watch them for medical advice.

Considering Dr Fauci, who is an "expert" on infectious diseases and advisor to the President of the United States on such, was one of the experts making exaggerted and sometimes false claims about the vaccines, I feel pretty safe saying that the entire system was compromised in pursuit of supporting a narrative.

[Kiero]

You seriously think nearly every doctor on the planet betrayed their oath and ethics over !2.50 a shot? What, like doctors were so hurting for income? You really are the dumbest fuck.

The dumb cunt who believes the narrative and allowed himself to be poisoned still thinks medical ethics exist. Bravo, you deserve everything you've got coming.

I judge by their actual behaviour, in the way they leapt at the chance to make an extra buck. I know of a formerly-retired GP who un-retired himself just to get on the jabbination bandwagon, because it's so lucrative.

[Kiero]

Both my parents are medical doctors (retired pediatrician and psychiatrist), and I have a sister with a PhD in genetics. All of them got themselves vaccinated, and had no involvement in giving vaccination to anyone else. I also have a few friends who are medical doctors as well whom I trust, who were uninvolved in my getting a vaccination, at least.

Oh dear.

[oggsmash]

  If you are reading what they said, they did in fact make the point the vax was never tested regarding efficacy regarding spreading the virus, despite being marketed HEAVILY as stopping the spread.  After the fact it became "surviving" the virus, and then advocates made the case you will be killing people in car wrecks because resources are tied up from people in ICU's due to covid.   The attempt to constantly move goalposts as to why people should get vaxxed, including making people get vaxxed to keep their jobs and many people....possibly including any speaking up now....stating that an employer had the right to force a vax on an employee to stay employed despite the vax largely being experimental compared to pretty much every other vax released to the public the past 50 years. 


   So boil it down as tight as you want and say the vax scientifically did "something" if you like, but  that is not exactly a strong case to force it or attempt to lecture people about getting it.  Same with masks.

Vax and masks help, and I think that's good enough basis to tell others about whatever help the offer.

I am not in favor of forcing anyone (I just said that in fact).

But I don't give a crap if you don't like lecturing. I hear plenty of lecturing I don't agree with or like. Hell half the posts in this part of the forum are attempts to lecture people. You're going to have to learn to deal with lecturing from others that you disagree with because that's just part of life.

  I dont much give a crap about what you like.  You did make points about employers should be able to make a vax a condition of employment (that is a mandate given the financial situation many people put themselves in, not their employers fault but it is a reality) and you went on and on about masks that medical experts finally said did nothing (after saying they did alot after of course saying they did not help to prevent people from hording them).  So read it, or do not.  You have plenty of company in getting hackles up about other people spouting what is bullshit.   

   You hopped on your soapbox and went on and on about having an obligation to others to wear masks and get vaxxed and that was complete bullshit.  So if it makes your breath stink to eat the shit you were spouting....tough.

[Zelen]

Me resting easy with the mute button for the cockroaches.

[Mistwell]

You seriously think nearly every doctor on the planet betrayed their oath and ethics over !2.50 a shot? What, like doctors were so hurting for income? You really are the dumbest fuck.

The dumb cunt who believes the narrative and allowed himself to be poisoned still thinks medical ethics exist. Bravo, you deserve everything you've got coming.

I judge by their actual behaviour, in the way they leapt at the chance to make an extra buck. I know of a formerly-retired GP who un-retired himself just to get on the jabbination bandwagon, because it's so lucrative.

No, Neanderthal boy, you're not claiming there are some bad apples out there. You're literally accusing nearly every doctor on the planet of selling themselves out for 12.50 a shot. All of them. You're not even considering the possibility that the huge swatch of doctors administering the vaccines genuinely believe they help reduce deaths. You go right to incredibly huge worldwide conspiracy by almost every doctor on the planet to make 12.50 a shot (which isn't very much - I have no idea why you think that sum of money is enough to lure already upper class doctors into unethical behavior) over something they think isn't effective or is even harmful.

Because you're a fucking idiot.

To be even more clear - many doctors in the U.S. already make more than 12.50 per 5 minutes not administering vaccines. I know in the UK doctors are paid shit by your NHS relative to doctors here, but that sum is not sufficient to lure doctors into breaking their oaths. It's frankly not enough to get them to do it even if they believe in the vaccine, if it were purely about money. Some would be LOSING money doing that. A general practitioner doctor out here in Los Angeles can make $320,000 a year for a 40 hour work week. Work that one out for yourself and you will find just doing vaccines all day would not be more profitable for them.

[KindaMeh]

In all fairness it is hard to argue that the shots do nothing. They aren't amazing at preventing infection, especially for some of the newer strains, but they do it. More to the point statistics both as regards lab studies and IRL treatment numbers back the claim that they sizably reduce hospitalization rates and COVID death rates among the vaccinated. That said, I can see where doctors might recommend them on that basis. Admittedly too there was no proof of side effects that outweighed the decrease in said rates. I sometimes do wonder though whether me having gotten the  jab will have health downsides in the long run, since you can only get so far with nonhuman testing. And although MRNA treatments more generally have been around about 80 years, this particular one is still young so to speak. I think the doctors made a reasonable decision to recommend given the information they had. A medic friend of mine got one on the basis that although he didn't have a high likelihood to  need it given his age and health brackets, it would make life easier and open doors with respect to doing stuff. Still, however unlikely, they could all  be wrong, and folks should have the right to choose. And not be demonized for making decisions for themselves and for their families in good faith.

More to the point, I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's being used for political discrimination. Same reason why I'm against mask mandates despite stuff from the mouth being the main way most COVID spreads, because the issue was politicized to the point where you're basically just going after Republicans on the basis of their politics. I think it's being an excuse to do just that.

The unvaccinated allegedly only hurt other unvaccinated anyway, so it's their own choice. And in many cases such as the youth, it's questionable whether trying to give folks the jab even improves overall societal outcomes noticeably, as opposed to merely sowing division with no real and sizable benefit to counterbalance this. And nobody forced us to wear masks when respiratory diseases more generally, which had contractions that went down like 50% when folks masked all the time towards the beginning of that whole thing, were killing numbers similar to COVID now. To say nothing of how "emergency powers" were used in some jurisdictions for 2+ years. Which reeks to me of a failure in our democratic systems.

Also, even if they're right, medical professionals can't tell us how to make policy. They can inform us on medical matters, but ultimately it's a question of values and trade-offs whether a state should stay open or not. Part of the reason why CDC policy shifts so often is because there is not and never will be a normative outcome produced purely by positive science. They aren't moral philosophers, theologians, social "scientists", psychologists, and economists all in one. Hell, even if they were, we're a democracy, not a technocracy ruled by philosopher kings.

I also want to point out that more than 13 states were worse in deaths per capita than Florida, and they kept everything open and the like, doing better economically than they would have had they listened to the prevailing wisdom of the times. At little apparent cost to themselves, given the death rate in regards to total population stands at less than .4%.