Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!

[Timothe]

The nazi thing is a product of 80 years of constant yammer about what was painted as the worst political movement in history.

I think the later generations, M and Z just toss it out like you might call someone a goof, with no real underlying understanding that Nazis were in fact horrible (though they got a whole bunch of extra hype while other movements were ignored, they were horrible) and what they are implying about someone.  I do have some worries that in a couple more generations kids are going to try to look "edgy" and start sporting Hugo Boss uniforms due to the ease of using the name as an insult for Gen X, and the complete disregard for what they are saying by later generations and using it as a casual insult.

Yes, I am well aware nazi name-calling is not a new thing - but sometimes I get overwhelmed by how ridiculous it is. One thing I picture is telling a Holocaust survivor "Well, you went through some bad stuff - but _I_ had to live through (X)" - when that's anything in the last few years in the U.S.

There have been plenty of injustices - but I think it should be plain that we are not in the midst of anything like the Holocaust or WWII.

We went to war and killed millions of people over X number of American deaths at Pearl Harbor. Our 9/11 casualties exceeded that number.

[jhkim]

There have been plenty of injustices - but I think it should be plain that we are not in the midst of anything like the Holocaust or WWII.

  Of course we are not in the midst of it.  However, even the ADL now redefines racism to be something only white people can do, there is a constant and long tirade on mass media about how terrible white people are, there are laws to limit how many white people get into college or hired for certain positions, on and on. 

    So...being a student of history, and understanding how tenuous the financial situation is in the USA, and watching a massive troop build up on a nation adjacent to Russia....I think what we can say, is we do certainly have some elements from before WW2 that could play out to end horribly.

  Edited to add: I consider, and I suspect a sizable portion of the population in the USA does as well, the USA government to be a BIGGER enemy and problem for me than the Russian Federation.  AS such, there is NO WAY I will support in ANY way military action there, at all.

Regarding racism -- I would say that back in 1941, the US government was more racially prejudiced than today. That's not condoning anti-white prejudice, but I think the contrast in clear. In 1941, the military was openly segregated by race, as were many public schools and colleges. The government had been conducting the Tuskegee Syphilis Study for 9 years. My own parents' marriage would have been illegal in many states (including California) because of anti-miscegenation laws.

Yet despite this overt racism, many Americans of all races still signed on to fight the Nazis and the Japanese - which I think was a good thing. As Americans, their lives were often more affected by their own government's racism than by any policy in Germany, yet still they supported. They could continue to oppose racism in their own country, but also fight against worse tyranny elsewhere - because letting Nazi Germany and the Japanese Empire conquer unchecked would make the world worse, not better.

There is a possibility of an awful outcome - but I also don't think that backing down is always the best way to peace. I think making a firm, clear demonstration that one will use force if necessary is a deterrent. That is certainly my hope with Ukraine.

[oggsmash]

There have been plenty of injustices - but I think it should be plain that we are not in the midst of anything like the Holocaust or WWII.

  Of course we are not in the midst of it.  However, even the ADL now redefines racism to be something only white people can do, there is a constant and long tirade on mass media about how terrible white people are, there are laws to limit how many white people get into college or hired for certain positions, on and on. 

    So...being a student of history, and understanding how tenuous the financial situation is in the USA, and watching a massive troop build up on a nation adjacent to Russia....I think what we can say, is we do certainly have some elements from before WW2 that could play out to end horribly.

  Edited to add: I consider, and I suspect a sizable portion of the population in the USA does as well, the USA government to be a BIGGER enemy and problem for me than the Russian Federation.  AS such, there is NO WAY I will support in ANY way military action there, at all.

Regarding racism -- I would say that back in 1941, the US government was more racially prejudiced than today. That's not condoning anti-white prejudice, but I think the contrast in clear. In 1941, the military was openly segregated by race, as were many public schools and colleges. The government had been conducting the Tuskegee Syphilis Study for 9 years. My own parents' marriage would have been illegal in many states (including California) because of anti-miscegenation laws.

Yet despite this overt racism, many Americans of all races still signed on to fight the Nazis and the Japanese - which I think was a good thing. As Americans, their lives were often more affected by their own government's racism than by any policy in Germany, yet still they supported. They could continue to oppose racism in their own country, but also fight against worse tyranny elsewhere - because letting Nazi Germany and the Japanese Empire conquer unchecked would make the world worse, not better.

There is a possibility of an awful outcome - but I also don't think that backing down is always the best way to peace. I think making a firm, clear demonstration that one will use force if necessary is a deterrent. That is certainly my hope with Ukraine.

   Your racism lesson is bullshit whataboutism.  Americans DID NOT SIGN ON TO FIGHT GERMANY AND JAPAN, they got DRAFTED en masse after the US Government did about all they could to provoke both and declared War after Japan's attack.  Unless you are taking your ass over to fight some russians, you and Blinken can STFU about about demonstrating force, because I suspect you and he have a similar level of experience with using it. 

[oggsmash]

  I am not going to edit what I said, but I do feel I came off a bit too strong.  Ukraine is NOT my business, is NOT the USA's business.  That is not a wasteland threatening them full of dudes on camels in caves.  If the USA steps even a bit wrong there, it will have consequences you, nor I can even imagine.  I am a bit weary of watching and listening to people who have never been in so much as a fist fight talk a bunch of shit about showing or using force, when the main reason they say stupid shit like that, is they think they will never have to suffer the consequences of such "show of force".  This is a different animal, and it is important to keep in mind, the USA couldnt win against dudes with 40 year old rifles hiding in caves.  Start fighting with Russia on its border is LITERALLY THE WORST MILITARY ERROR IN HISTORY.

[Mistwell]

You had "three years in a row" something that is around from only two?

The Alpha variant was in circulation in late 2019. Or didn't you know that?

I' curious, how many times have you tested positive for Covid 19?

[Shasarak]

You're correct. It's more like the mid-1930s, and we're learning who among us would have been Nazi apologists.

I think we already knew who that is.

And they know who they are too.

[Shasarak]

Start fighting with Russia on its border is LITERALLY THE WORST MILITARY ERROR IN HISTORY.

If you hurry you can still start the fight in winter.

[Mistwell]

Depends. That person that didn't get vaxxed takes up an ICU bed that another patient could use.

And a specialist or maybe a whole ward that should be devoted to something else (like Gynaecology or Oncology). Nothing beats to see some specialist for your non-Covid problem at 9PM with them deadly tired.

What I wonder, however, is how people would react if diabetes or not keeping in shape were transmissible conditions. You watch what you eat, you go to the gym, you strive to keep a healthy lifestyle - only for some idiot who doesn't and plays online all day long to go around spreading diabetes. You wake up one morning needing insulin for the rest of your life and 100 lbs. overweight thanks to that idiot. But all is fine because "his body his choice", right?

Personally, no, I don't think that the other dude would survive the mob. But diabetes and unhealthy lifestyles aren't transmissible, as Covid is, so we will never know...

That's just a lovely attempt to rationalize totalitarianism. I know what side you'd be on in the 1930s.

You know, the whole "People who don't view the world like I do should be dismissed as Nazis" isn't cool when the left does it, and isn't cool when you do it either. Humans are complex, you don't have a bead on how people would have behaved under different circumstances based on their beliefs about this one topic, and this whole "I am going to use the tragedy of the holocaust for my own partisan ends" bullshit has got to fucking stop. All it does is diminish the actual Nazi fucks who actually committed mass genocide as equivalent to whatever the hot topic is of the day.

[Edit - and I see others called you out for this same shit. And predictably you deflect and play the victim.]

[jhkim]

  I am not going to edit what I said, but I do feel I came off a bit too strong.  Ukraine is NOT my business, is NOT the USA's business.  That is not a wasteland threatening them full of dudes on camels in caves.  If the USA steps even a bit wrong there, it will have consequences you, nor I can even imagine.  I am a bit weary of watching and listening to people who have never been in so much as a fist fight talk a bunch of shit about showing or using force, when the main reason they say stupid shit like that, is they think they will never have to suffer the consequences of such "show of force".  This is a different animal, and it is important to keep in mind, the USA couldnt win against dudes with 40 year old rifles hiding in caves.  Start fighting with Russia on its border is LITERALLY THE WORST MILITARY ERROR IN HISTORY.

To be fair, the Russians also couldn't win against dudes with 40 year old rifles hiding in caves. In fact, the Soviets had many times more killed in half the time in their war against the Afghans. (Soviet deaths were at least 15,000 from 1979 to 1989, while the U.S. lost 2,420 from 2001 to 2021.)

I don't know about worst - but a major military error was "Hey, if we just let the Germans have Poland, they'll stop there. After all, Poland is next to Germany, so it's not our business to intervene."

As for where we have business being and putting our values on the line -- where do you think we do have business? I supported WWII, the Korean War, the Kuwait War, and almost nothing else. I've been to multiple anti-war protests, but when democratic countries are invaded just to conquer them, I think it is the world's business - not just the U.S., but every other country in the world. That is what the world came together to agree on after WWII, that conquest for territory was wrong and would not be tolerated. And I think the world is much better for it.

[GeekyBugle]

  I am not going to edit what I said, but I do feel I came off a bit too strong.  Ukraine is NOT my business, is NOT the USA's business.  That is not a wasteland threatening them full of dudes on camels in caves.  If the USA steps even a bit wrong there, it will have consequences you, nor I can even imagine.  I am a bit weary of watching and listening to people who have never been in so much as a fist fight talk a bunch of shit about showing or using force, when the main reason they say stupid shit like that, is they think they will never have to suffer the consequences of such "show of force".  This is a different animal, and it is important to keep in mind, the USA couldnt win against dudes with 40 year old rifles hiding in caves.  Start fighting with Russia on its border is LITERALLY THE WORST MILITARY ERROR IN HISTORY.

To be fair, the Russians also couldn't win against dudes with 40 year old rifles hiding in caves. In fact, the Soviets had many times more killed in half the time in their war against the Afghans. (Soviet deaths were at least 15,000 from 1979 to 1989, while the U.S. lost 2,420 from 2001 to 2021.)

I don't know about worst - but a major military error was "Hey, if we just let the Germans have Poland, they'll stop there. After all, Poland is next to Germany, so it's not our business to intervene."

As for where we have business being and putting our values on the line -- where do you think we do have business? I supported WWII, the Korean War, the Kuwait War, and almost nothing else. I've been to multiple anti-war protests, but when democratic countries are invaded just to conquer them, I think it is the world's business - not just the U.S., but every other country in the world. That is what the world came together to agree on after WWII, that conquest for territory was wrong and would not be tolerated. And I think the world is much better for it.

You're not old enough to have "supported" at least two of those wars. I don't remember the date of the Kuwait one so I'll give you that one, but the other two? I bet you weren't even a spark in your daddy's eyes.

[jhkim]

You're not old enough to have "supported" at least two of those wars. I don't remember the date of the Kuwait one so I'll give you that one, but the other two? I bet you weren't even a spark in your daddy's eyes.

Sorry if my phrasing was unclear. I didn't mean to imply I was alive during WWII or the Korean War - just that I believe that the U.S. was justified in going to war in those cases.

[Pat]

Depends. That person that didn't get vaxxed takes up an ICU bed that another patient could use.

And a specialist or maybe a whole ward that should be devoted to something else (like Gynaecology or Oncology). Nothing beats to see some specialist for your non-Covid problem at 9PM with them deadly tired.

What I wonder, however, is how people would react if diabetes or not keeping in shape were transmissible conditions. You watch what you eat, you go to the gym, you strive to keep a healthy lifestyle - only for some idiot who doesn't and plays online all day long to go around spreading diabetes. You wake up one morning needing insulin for the rest of your life and 100 lbs. overweight thanks to that idiot. But all is fine because "his body his choice", right?

Personally, no, I don't think that the other dude would survive the mob. But diabetes and unhealthy lifestyles aren't transmissible, as Covid is, so we will never know...

That's just a lovely attempt to rationalize totalitarianism. I know what side you'd be on in the 1930s.

You know, the whole "People who don't view the world like I do should be dismissed as Nazis" isn't cool when the left does it, and isn't cool when you do it either. Humans are complex, you don't have a bead on how people would have behaved under different circumstances based on their beliefs about this one topic, and this whole "I am going to use the tragedy of the holocaust for my own partisan ends" bullshit has got to fucking stop. All it does is diminish the actual Nazi fucks who actually committed mass genocide as equivalent to whatever the hot topic is of the day.

[Edit - and I see others called you out for this same shit. And predictably you deflect and play the victim.]

No, absolutely no one has called me out for that. I responded to someone who, quite hypocritically, tried to call a third person out about it.

After years of people being called Nazis based on nothing whatsoever, you don't get to use "oh noes I'm being called a Nazi" as a shield when someone points out the policies you support literally violate the Nuremberg code. That's a completely fair assessment based on real similarities, not random name calling. And quite predictably, you go on to accuse me of doing what you're doing, not what I'm doing, because you've become completely irrational in pursuit of this vendetta of yours.

[Kiero]

Almost instantly in my case, worst when I found out the jab they gave me can cause miocarditis, and yet I've never been on the screeching side trying to force anyone to take it.

In the moment I thought it was the best choice with the information at my disposal. You took a different decision, good for you.

Sorry to hear that.

At the beginning, my position was "why the fuck do I need a vaccine for the common cold, when I've never had the flu jab". Then it morphed into "why are they pushing this completely unnecessary thing so hard - no thanks".

I' curious, how many times have you tested positive for Covid 19?

Zero, I've never been tested. I don't engage in the testing scam. People who I was in close proximity to, who had the same symptoms and the same time, did.

The tests are utter bullshit, there are a dozen other viral infections, including things like noroviruses, which will give a positive result.

[Ghostmaker]

There have been plenty of injustices - but I think it should be plain that we are not in the midst of anything like the Holocaust or WWII.

  Of course we are not in the midst of it.  However, even the ADL now redefines racism to be something only white people can do, there is a constant and long tirade on mass media about how terrible white people are, there are laws to limit how many white people get into college or hired for certain positions, on and on. 

    So...being a student of history, and understanding how tenuous the financial situation is in the USA, and watching a massive troop build up on a nation adjacent to Russia....I think what we can say, is we do certainly have some elements from before WW2 that could play out to end horribly.

  Edited to add: I consider, and I suspect a sizable portion of the population in the USA does as well, the USA government to be a BIGGER enemy and problem for me than the Russian Federation.  AS such, there is NO WAY I will support in ANY way military action there, at all.

Regarding racism -- I would say that back in 1941, the US government was more racially prejudiced than today. That's not condoning anti-white prejudice, but I think the contrast in clear. In 1941, the military was openly segregated by race, as were many public schools and colleges. The government had been conducting the Tuskegee Syphilis Study for 9 years. My own parents' marriage would have been illegal in many states (including California) because of anti-miscegenation laws.

Yet despite this overt racism, many Americans of all races still signed on to fight the Nazis and the Japanese - which I think was a good thing. As Americans, their lives were often more affected by their own government's racism than by any policy in Germany, yet still they supported. They could continue to oppose racism in their own country, but also fight against worse tyranny elsewhere - because letting Nazi Germany and the Japanese Empire conquer unchecked would make the world worse, not better.

There is a possibility of an awful outcome - but I also don't think that backing down is always the best way to peace. I think making a firm, clear demonstration that one will use force if necessary is a deterrent. That is certainly my hope with Ukraine.

   Your racism lesson is bullshit whataboutism.  Americans DID NOT SIGN ON TO FIGHT GERMANY AND JAPAN, they got DRAFTED en masse after the US Government did about all they could to provoke both and declared War after Japan's attack.  Unless you are taking your ass over to fight some russians, you and Blinken can STFU about about demonstrating force, because I suspect you and he have a similar level of experience with using it.

Not quite. Germany and Italy fatally miscalculated after Japan's attack by declaring war on the U.S. Wasn't exactly a 'draft'. In fact, Churchill himself would state that he slept peacefully for the first time since the war in Europe began, upon hearing the news. Because Germany really didn't have any way to strike at the U.S. This meant there was an entire industrial base that the Germans could not bomb into rubble.

Remember: professionals study logistics.

That being said, though, I am absolutely convinced that the desperate push to 'save Ukraine' is not based on any kind of moral grandstanding, but simply to prevent Russia from fucking up a money-laundering operation.

[Timothe]

Churchill slept peacefully after he purposefully let German U-boats sink the Lusitania, which drew America into the war.