TheRPGSite

G+ arguments, "Fake Geek Girls", and the Hero's Journey of the Low-Charisma Geek

 

I just wanted to turn your attention to this post,  where I respond to a guy who responded in turn to a fairly clever little video made by a group of Geek Girls, protesting the fact that certain male geeks expect them to have to "prove" that they're real geeks, plus the general idiotic behaviour some social retards get around to whenever there's a girl present.

Now, I don't know if I can put it more plainly than this: any woman (or man, or whatever) who sits down willingly at a table and plays and enjoys a regular RPG is by definition not a "fake geek", whatever else you might be able to say about them.  If you think otherwise, you're just being a tool.

 

Nor, as the guy I was responding to suggested, do we need to in any way "accommodate" lawncrappers who feel uncomfortable around women or behave inappropriately around them (any more than the hobby needs to accommodate women who feel irrationally uncomfortable around men and thus behave inappropriately), on the basis that these poor lawncrappers were victims of bullying and social mistreatment as children and are helpless victims and statements like "you were just lucky, if you were bullied and turned out ok, it was just luck that you're not like them", or "they need therapy, not scorn".

 

I would agree, that if you're being "triggered" by things (which is different than, say, having your boob physically groped), you should go get help from a therapist and not expect an entire con to stop having booth babes because of it.

Likewise, if you claim you're being "triggered" by the mere presence of women in your gaming club/con/forum/whatever into saying or doing grotesquely inappropriate things, the place to get "help" for that is from a therapist, not from the hobby.

I disagree that lawncrapper-nerds are just "helpless victims of abuse".  Most of them are just pathetic horny idiots who lack the Charisma Bonus to be able to interact with women, and then blame women for that.  

I was a low-charisma geek too once, taking pride in my intelligence and thinking that this should make everyone else love, admire, respect and obey me because I was smart, and that I shouldn't be required to do anything else to be popular and get my way; and getting enraged and angry and upset when that didn't happen. I was about 12.

And no, I wasn't one of the "lucky ones who didn't break". That kind of thinking is bullshit.  We're not helpless victims (or merely fortunate survivors) of circumstances we have no control over; every one of us has a CHOICE of what we do. The problem is that sometimes the choices are Hard, and people are Lazy; and DON'T WANT TO CHANGE.

In my case, it was nothing to do with luck, it was just that I GOT THE FUCKING MESSAGE.  I figured out that its not the rest of the world that has to change and stop "picking on me" for not knowing how to fit in, I just had to start learning how to fit in.  I figured out that in this world, Charisma isn't the dumpstat, its everything.   And it was fucking hard, and took a few years, but I changed: I learned how to clean myself, dress myself, speak in public, feel confident around people (including girls! amazing!), I had to work hard and train myself in how to appreciate the nuances of culture, and how to not make everything about me or my immediate desires, and how to adapt myself to whatever environment or group I found myself in. And figuring out how in fact, yes, you can do this and still be yourself, still be an individual, still be a "nerd", and not "betraying" anything except that part of us that's an antisocial little shit that wants to get but not give. You know, the animal part, that has to be overcome so that we can be civilized human beings.
(and I have news for you: this isn't a 'nerd' thing; its a struggle every normal human being goes through)

So don't give me this bullshit that we have to excuse the poor lawncrappers and diaper-wearers and non-bathers and catpissmen, or treat them with kid gloves; or that "there but for the grace of spock go I" or some shit like that. Its always about what you CHOOSE.

If you're familiar with my writing you KNOW I'm not a "Social justice warrior" and have never "white knighted" anyone in my life. So seriously, you don't have a leg to stand on if you're suggesting that I'm only arguing about this because its popular to do so.

I'm arguing with you about this because I've had a lot of women in my gaming groups, they're all geeks, I've never met a girl into RPGs who was a "fake geek girl", I think the term is bullshit, and I don't believe that nerds have to be "eased into" the idea of somehow granting permission which is not theirs to grant for women to participate in their hobby (which they always have; I've had women in my gaming groups for the last 25 years).

 

RPGPundit

(August 7, 2013)

I guess the 5e brigade missed this post, Pundit. ;)

Where can we see the video you're referring to?

Quote from: 3rik;781462Where can we see the video you're referring to?

"The Internet"

/seriously, that bullshit's everywhere

I have definitely had girls pretending to be interested in RPGs, even to the point of playing them, in order to get into my pants.
Now I am not going to knock that in fact I want more of them in the hobby.

The term "geek" has become so expansive and diluted as to become meaningless. Arguing over whether or not someone is a "real" one or not is even more meaningless. Just play the fucking game.

Quote from: RPGPundit;781432and how to not make everything about me or my immediate desires,

Now if this would only carry over into your online persona ;)

Quote from: jibbajibba;781477I have definitely had girls pretending to be interested in RPGs, even to the point of playing them, in order to get into my pants.
Now I am not going to knock that in fact I want more of them in the hobby.

Really? I wonder if that's a generational thing, having girls interested in a guy's activities to have sex with them, because I rarely saw that sort of thing when I was younger.  It was typically the other way around.

Quote from: RPGPundit;781432GI’ve never met a girl into RPGs who was a “fake geek girl”, I think the term is bullshit, and I don’t believe that nerds have to be “eased into” the idea of somehow granting permission which is not theirs to grant for women to participate in their hobby

Life would be much simpler if those lackwits would spend their time and energy building club houses in trees with a "NO GIRLZ ALLOWED" sign...and then stay in their tree house.

Unless you are a lackwit, women playing RPGs is not a big fucking deal. I try to play RPGs with people who are fun. Whether they are geeks or not is beside the point - or merely an exercise in circular definitions. For the past 32 years half of the peole who are fun to play RPGs with just happen to be female.

Nerd-rage, fan boyz of the world - grow the fuck up already.

Quote from: jibbajibba;781477I have definitely had girls pretending to be interested in RPGs, even to the point of playing them, in order to get into my pants.
Now I am not going to knock that in fact I want more of them in the hobby.

I don't doubt you have but I am also quite certain this is such a rarity it isn't worth factoring in.

If someone is at the table to game, I really don't care why or what other reasons might have brought them there. If someone new at the table is a woman, I see no reason to assume she is there just to get in some gamer's pants.

Quote from: flyerfan1991;781489Really? I wonder if that's a generational thing, having girls interested in a guy's activities to have sex with them, because I rarely saw that sort of thing when I was younger.  It was typically the other way around.

For what it's worth, a guy in one my RPG groups is a consummate cyclist - he used to work as a bicycle courier and regularly goes on international cycling tours -, and he said that there are quite a few girls who join cyclist circles mainly to find a guy.

Are you implying that women want to meet men for romance? Sexist!!!

Quote from: flyerfan1991;781489Really? I wonder if that's a generational thing, having girls interested in a guy's activities to have sex with them, because I rarely saw that sort of thing when I was younger.  It was typically the other way around.

Depends on how hot you are to the girls. I usually saw it in regards to sports. Girls pretending to be interested in the finer points of baseball or basketball in order to spend time with a guy.

Quote from: RPGPundit;781432I'm arguing with you about this because I've had a lot of women in my gaming groups, they're all geeks, I've never met a girl into RPGs who was a "fake geek girl", I think the term is bullshit, and I don't believe that nerds have to be "eased into" the idea of somehow granting permission which is not theirs to grant for women to participate in their hobby (which they always have; I've had women in my gaming groups for the last 25 years).

I'm not sure the geek term isn't re-appropriating itself to it's meaning of "fucking little weirdos" or something like that. I was brought into RPG's by my sister, to her D&D group; which to me and my friends as wargamers, it was a girl's game. From my sisters, to marriage to many female contacts in my life, I have never seen-heard of the strange behavior of some of this bs. Like some neckbeard preaching to a woman how to live, or anybody; "fake geek girls." Right.

Then people wonder why women aren't playing RPG's.

It's nothing new, and applies to all hobbies and both sexes equally.  How many of us sat through a romantic comedy at the movie theater because you were attracted to her?

Quote from: RPGPundit;781432In my case, it was nothing to do with luck, it was just that I GOT THE FUCKING MESSAGE.  I figured out that its not the rest of the world that has to change and stop "picking on me" for not knowing how to fit in, I just had to start learning how to fit in.  I figured out that in this world, Charisma isn't the dumpstat, its everything.   And it was fucking hard, and took a few years, but I changed: I learned how to clean myself, dress myself, speak in public, feel confident around people (including girls! amazing!), I had to work hard and train myself in how to appreciate the nuances of culture, and how to not make everything about me or my immediate desires, and how to adapt myself to whatever environment or group I found myself in. And figuring out how in fact, yes, you can do this and still be yourself, still be an individual, still be a "nerd", and not "betraying" anything except that part of us that's an antisocial little shit that wants to get but not give. You know, the animal part, that has to be overcome so that we can be civilized human beings.

Agree with the core of the message, but my experience also was that I had either leave or leave in the closet the geek related stuff in order to get rid of the stigma. I remember girls, some of them interested in me, who would question for example why I would even read a comic book.

It was really off putting, but I finally did get the message that I had to stop doing the harmless crap I liked, like RPGs, in order for a lot of people to not write me off. They just could not understand why I would prefer to play an RPG to being in a nightclub or bar getting wasted.

Mostly after I entered college, I just hid all of that stuff or left it behind. I only recently started becoming interested again and it's still in the closet, so to speak.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;781519It's nothing new, and applies to all hobbies and both sexes equally.  How many of us sat through a romantic comedy at the movie theater because you were attracted to her?

Yeah and I actually think it's the right thing to do, anyway, if at least you try to show genuine interest in what the person you like is interested in.

I don't know, I honestly find the idea that hordes of women are pretending to be geeks because they want our hot bodies a notion that is just beyond silly. Yes, anything and everything occurs in life, but come on guys, we've all been to game stores and conventions, does anyone honestly think this is going on on a big enough scale that it is even worthy of comment? And if it were, why on earth are you complaining?

Quote from: ArrozConLeche;781521Yeah and I actually think it's the right thing to do, anyway, if at least you try to show genuine interest in what the person you like is interested in.

To be entirely sexist for a moment.

I have found anecdotally that men tend to get hobbies that let them escape their partner, tinkering with an old car in the garage, making beer, going the bar with their mates to watch the rugby, playing COD for 45 hours straight etc whereas Women tend to prefer hobbies they can do with their partner to get more quality time, in fact their favorite hobby would be talking in great detail about their day, or at a stretch going for along walk so they could talk at great length about their day etc :D

As for women pretending to like Men's stuff... its build into the DNA of Western Culture (in most Eastern Cultures its irrelevant) From Rachel pretending to be interested in museums to date Ross, to Penny pretending to like physics when the hot physics prof shows up. I mean the girls that got dragged to Football games were so bored to death they invented Cheer-leading. How bored must they have been to do that?

Men might do a rom com, or sit through one of the Twilight movies with their actual partner and they might go salsa dancing once they find out from a mate that the bar is 80% hot East European girls and no blokes but they are unlikely to attend flower arranging classes, or evening classes in sewing simply to meet women there are after all limits.

Of course none of this undermines the basic Rock Rule of Relationships.....

    See... Relationships are hard, man. For order, for any relationship to work, both people have to be on the same page, both people have to have the same focus, and we all know what that page is. We all know what that focus is. In order for the relationship to work both people have to have the same focus, and what's that focus? That focus is all about HER! It's all about her!
Fellas, when you wake up in the morning, you should look yourself in the mirror and say, "FUCK YOU! Fuck your hopes, fuck your dreams, fuck your plans … fuck everything you thought this life was going to bring to you. Now let's go out there and try to make this bitch happy."


I'm all out of sexism now :)

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;781532I don't know, I honestly find the idea that hordes of women are pretending to be geeks because they want our hot bodies a notion that is just beyond silly. Yes, anything and everything occurs in life, but come on guys, we've all been to game stores and conventions, does anyone honestly think this is going on on a big enough scale that it is even worthy of comment? And if it were, why on earth are you complaining?

the complaining is the bit I don't get :)

Shit you would think that they would be paying girls to try RPGs.

Mind you having been to a few Gen Cons .... meh... not keen.

Quote from: ArrozConLeche;781517Depends on how hot you are to the girls. I usually saw it in regards to sports. Girls pretending to be interested in the finer points of baseball or basketball in order to spend time with a guy.

There's a bit of a difference between "spend time" and/or "date" and "have casual sex", which is what I was surprised about.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;781532I don't know, I honestly find the idea that hordes of women are pretending to be geeks because they want our hot bodies a notion that is just beyond silly. Yes, anything and everything occurs in life, but come on guys, we've all been to game stores and conventions, does anyone honestly think this is going on on a big enough scale that it is even worthy of comment? And if it were, why on earth are you complaining?

I agree that it's certainly only a small minority of women who do this in the gaming hobby, and by far the vast majority just want to play games.  Ergo, complaining about it is pretty trivial.

But I think why some people complain are about those women who are queen bees, because it often causes a lot of drama.  Men get stupid fighting over the attention of women.  Especially men who are already socially challenged ;)

Quote from: Sacrosanct;781538I agree that it's certainly only a small minority of women who do this in the gaming hobby, and by far the vast majority just want to play games.  Ergo, complaining about it is pretty trivial.

But I think why some people complain are about those women who are queen bees, because it often causes a lot of drama.  Men get stupid fighting over the attention of women.  Especially men who are already socially challenged ;)

Those are two different things entirely though. Just because a given group or store or game scene has a small number of women and they therefore have guys vying for their attention, that doesn't make the women fake geek girls. That is the opposite of what folks are describing. I really think this fake geek girl thing is in everyone's head. I have never once net a girl gamer who wasn't genuinely interested in the hobby (even ones who came to it through a boy friend or spouse).

Quote from: Sacrosanct;781538I agree that it's certainly only a small minority of women who do this in the gaming hobby, and by far the vast majority just want to play games.  Ergo, complaining about it is pretty trivial.

 ;)

The whole concept of fake geek is incredibly adolescent. I mean it is up there with worrying about posers or checking people's music knowledge to challenge their claim as metal heads.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;781540Those are two different things entirely though. Just because a given group or store or game scene has a small number of women and they therefore have guys vying for their attention, that doesn't make the women fake geek girls. That is the opposite of what folks are describing. I really think this fake geek girl thing is in everyone's head. I have never once net a girl gamer who wasn't genuinely interested in the hobby (even ones who came to it through a boy friend or spouse).

That's not what I was getting at.  I was getting at those girls/women who join the group for the attention.  And yes, I have seen this in real life.  But like you say, it's such the minority of female gamers that it's quite the exception and not the rule.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;781547That's not what I was getting at.  I was getting at those girls/women who join the group for the attention.  And yes, I have seen this in real life.  But like you say, it's such the minority of female gamers that it's quite the exception and not the rule.

I haven't seen it and don't really buy it. I have seen women who join groups that do recieve attention from the men, but I doubt that is why they joined or continue to stay. You can hold anyone's interest under a microscope and claim they are there for other reasons (Jeremy is only in a band because it gets him lots of girlfriends, Nathan only likes to GM because he likes the attention, Timothy only shows up for D&D to eat Doritos, etc). We never hold the guy's interest under a microscope because it is obviously a stupid and pointless area of investigation, so why attribute motives to women who game, when they're the only ones who really know why they are there?

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;781549I haven't seen it and don't really buy it. I have seen women who join groups that do recieve attention from the men, but I doubt that is why they joined or continue to stay. You can hold anyone's interest under a microscope and claim they are there for other reasons (Jeremy is only in a band because it gets him lots of girlfriends, Nathan only likes to GM because he likes the attention, Timothy only shows up for D&D to eat Doritos, etc). We never hold the guy's interest under a microscope because it is obviously a stupid and pointless area of investigation, so why attribute motives to women who game, when they're the only ones who really know why they are there?

Yeah we do.  We either call them bandwagoners, or especially if it's a more traditionally female orientated activity, we make assumptions.  All the time.  If a guy joins the cheerleader squad, people assume he's either gay, or he's out to get girls.  Almost never because maybe he just likes cheerleading.  Or the crafting club.  Or any other female dominated hobby.

Quote from: jibbajibba;781533I have found anecdotally that men tend to get hobbies that let them escape their partner, tinkering with an old car in the garage, making beer, going the bar with their mates to watch the rugby, playing COD for 45 hours straight etc whereas Women tend to prefer hobbies they can do with their partner to get more quality time, in fact their favorite hobby would be talking in great detail about their day, or at a stretch going for along walk so they could talk at great length about their day etc :D

In my experience, women are more likely to prefer hobbies they can do with other people, not just their partner. And once they're married with kids (in the experience of me and my circle of friends), women are just as eager to get away from the husband and kids once in a while as men are. Which is one of the reasons social activities tend to split along gender lines once couples have kids - the guys want to get away from wives and kids with other guys, the women want to get from husband and kids with other women. It's the reason why book club participants are 95 per cent, and why a guy showing up at one expecting the focus of the gathering to be an in-depth analysis of a book will walk away disappointed.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;781553Yeah we do.  We either call them bandwagoners, or especially if it's a more traditionally female orientated activity, we make assumptions.  All the time.  If a guy joins the cheerleader squad, people assume he's either gay, or he's out to get girls.  Almost never because maybe he just likes cheerleading.  Or the crafting club.  Or any other female dominated hobby.

My point is we don't do it in gaming to guys. And if we do, then it is equally stupid. The idea that geek is such a coveted title that folks would endure hours and hours of tabletop play just to gain some weird prestige is also stupid. Just because are jumping on the 5E bandwagon for example, that doesn't mean they aren't there because they love gaming. You are attributing motives to people that you can't possibly know.

And even in those other examples, the issue is with the people making assumptions about the person's motives. There is no reason to assume just because a girl at a game store is getting lots of attention, that that is why she is there. How on earth are you deciphering this? Sure I'll bet she also likes the attention, who doesn't, but that does not make her a fake geek girl.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;781560My point is we don't do it in gaming to guys. .

Of course not, because gaming has traditionally been a male dominated activity.  Why would you question it?  I'm sure women don't question other women on their movitives for joining a scrapbooking club.  But they probably are when a guy joins.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;781562Of course not, because gaming has traditionally been a male dominated activity.  Why would you question it?  I'm sure women don't question other women on their movitives for joining a scrapbooking club.  But they probably are when a guy joins.

I think we are I agreement there is a double standard, and the double standard didn't emerge from a vacuum, but I see no good reason to continue tge double standard. It doesn't make more sense to do just because there has traditionally been less females in the hobby. If we suspect every female who plays of being there for attention, of being a fake game girl, that is only going to drive more of them away. And like I said before, we've all been to cons and game stores, I really have a hard time these women are there trolling for studs.

You know who starts shit like this? Jealous nerds, male and female.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;781564I think we are I agreement there is a double standard, and the double standard didn't emerge from a vacuum, but I see no good reason to continue tge double standard. It doesn't make more sense to do just because there has traditionally been less females in the hobby. If we suspect every female who plays of being there for attention, of being a fake game girl, that is only going to drive more of them away. And like I said before, we've all been to cons and game stores, I really have a hard time these women are there trolling for studs.

I agree with you 100% that if I were trolling for studs, the game store is one of the last places I'd look ;)

And I also agree that women who do troll for attention are such a low % that it's not worth getting upset about or accusing other women of being disengenous when they aren't.

Tribalism kills everything it touches.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;781564And like I said before, we've all been to cons and game stores, I really have a hard time these women are there trolling for studs.

Once you back away from sex being the only form of attention, though,  it should get easier to believe.

I had a few in highschool, but the most recent example is a sister-in-law.  She knew I liked RPGs and claimed to like them herself.  She encouraged me to start up a weekly family game.  I started getting suspicious when it was clear she wanted to be anywhere else but at that table.  Yet she kept deliberately talking it up, claiming she was eager for the next session, etc, etc, etc.

I then observed my other brother trying to have deep detailed conversations about how to navigate Portal maps with her.  She was way into it, telling him how clever his solutions were, etc.  After he left, I asked her, "I didn't know you played that much Portal."  Her reply - "I don't,  but I know that Josh likes it."

It became pretty easy to spot her doing the same thing to basically everyone in the family.  She saw it as bridge building.

I saw it as disingenuous and a total waste of my time...

Also, and I know this probably makes me sound like giant misogynist dick, but one big reason why these women* do hang out in "geek circles" (as Brendan implies isn't exactly the place to find studs) is because they are...less than attractive themselves.  Hanging out in more traditional venues doesn't give them any attention.  But in a circle of nerds who are lucky to see breasts in real life?  Suddenly these girls get all kinds of attention.  So it's less about the studliness of guys they are trying to get attention from, and more of the quantity of attention given.  Which often is compared to "none" previously.

I'll also note this behavior is not limited to women by any stretch of the imagination, just that this is the particular context we're talking about.  I think men are actually worse at this.


*again, just a small %.  I in no way am trying to imply all, most, or even a significant amount of women who hang in geek circles do this

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;781560My point is we don't do it in gaming to guys. And if we do, then it is equally stupid. The idea that geek is such a coveted title that folks would endure hours and hours of tabletop play just to gain some weird prestige is also stupid. Just because are jumping on the 5E bandwagon for example, that doesn't mean they aren't there because they love gaming. You are attributing motives to people that you can't possibly know.

And even in those other examples, the issue is with the people making assumptions about the person's motives. There is no reason to assume just because a girl at a game store is getting lots of attention, that that is why she is there. How on earth are you deciphering this? Sure I'll bet she also likes the attention, who doesn't, but that does not make her a fake geek girl.

I'm sure there's a term in Yoga culture for a guy who joins a club just to pick up chicks. But then again, women who do yoga aren't as self-conscious, resentful, embarrassed, and all-around awkward as the guys in geek culture.

Bottom line for me is if you are at my table playing a game, you're a gamer. No one needs to prove their geek cred to me, and no one is obligated to keep playing with me just because they expressed prior interest.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;781519It's nothing new, and applies to all hobbies and both sexes equally.  How many of us sat through a romantic comedy at the movie theater because you were attracted to her?

I watched "The Notebook" because my then-wife wanted to.  God help me.

Quote from: Haffrung;781625I'm sure there's a term in Yoga culture for a guy who joins a club just to pick up chicks. But then again, women who do yoga aren't as self-conscious, resentful, embarrassed, and all-around awkward as the guys in geek culture.

Maybe but having gone to yoga classes I can say they don't assume that about you just because you are a guy. You go to a Yoga class people are very welcoming because they want other people to enjoy their activity.

Humans like to hang out in groups where they are accepted.

If you want to grow your group, become more accepting.

If you want a better group, become more discerning of who is accepted.

I am always happy to have female gamers at my table at FLGS and Con games. Home gaming groups are more personal, and I don't deal with table drama which too often seems to occur when groups include couples or gamer girlfriends or the dorks who act weird around the woman who just showed up to game.

We've had various couples in our groups over the years, but IN MY EXPERIENCE the games have been better without them.

Quote from: Haffrung;781625I'm sure there's a term in Yoga culture for a guy who joins a club just to pick up chicks. But then again, women who do yoga aren't as self-conscious, resentful, embarrassed, and all-around awkward as the guys in geek culture.

A guy who acts creepy in yoga class will be kicked out. Women know, it's just how much they will put up with is another thing, and from who.

Quote from: dragoner;781631A guy who acts creepy in yoga class will be kicked out. Women know, it's just how much they will put up with is another thing, and from who.

Women in yoga know some guys go to yoga class to meet women. Most women do not find the fact that men try to pick up women creepy. Most men interested in meeting women do not act creepy.

What is this strange, neutered world some people around here seem to live in, or want to live in, where there's no sexual appraisal, curiosity, and frisson in social gatherings where men and women interact? Is this a generational thing? Or just a nerd thing?

Maybe the issue is some people (both the creeps and the white knights) don't seem to understand the difference between normal, healthy socialization, and being a creep. Someone who doesn't know when he's making other people uncomfortable has issues. On the other hand, someone who is uncomfortable with appraisal and mild flirtation also has a problem. They probably both have issues in a lot more venues than a gaming gathering. So I don't understand what any of this has to do with gaming.

Heh. It never occurred to me until all this fake geek girl stuff came up that anyone in a gaming store or con could possibly be questioning my motives for being there or doubting my cred. It'd be pretty hilarious if someone acted like I didn't belong there.

Well, I guess it'd be sad for them if they ran the store 'cause me and my credit card would be walking out the door.

Quote from: Haffrung;781640Women in yoga know some guys go to yoga class to meet women. Most women do not find the fact that men try to pick up women creepy. Most men interested in meeting women do not act creepy.

What is this strange, neutered world some people around here seem to live in, or want to live in, where there's no sexual appraisal, curiosity, and frisson in social gatherings where men and women interact? Is this a generational thing? Or just a nerd thing?

Maybe the issue is some people (both the creeps and the white knights) don't seem to understand the difference between normal, healthy socialization, and being a creep. Someone who doesn't know when he's making other people uncomfortable has issues. On the other hand, someone who is uncomfortable with appraisal and mild flirtation also has a problem. They probably both have issues in a lot more venues than a gaming gathering. So I don't understand what any of this has to do with gaming.

It is being socially inept, not understanding what is being a creep or not. Or not knowing when no means no. Or being the poisoned M&M.

Stuff that as men we don't have to deal with.

I have never seen women deliberately sabotage other women when it comes to relationships. Never.








:rotfl:

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;781626Bottom line for me is if you are at my table playing a game, you're a gamer. No one needs to prove their geek cred to me, and no one is obligated to keep playing with me just because they expressed prior interest.

Yes. This fixation by some on geek credit is weird.

So, quite frankly, is the notion that women gamers are difficult to find. I've been playing and running RPGs for 40 years. For 32 of those 40 years I've had groups where all the players were female, where roughtly half the players were female, or where there were at least a couple of women in the group. Of the 30 or so people I've played with regularly over the last 3 decades, 40% of them are women.

This leads me to conclude that if one is having difficulty finding women gamers, then one is probably doing something wrong.

So funny thing. In the many years of this internet we have and love, many a times have I come across people bitching and hating on people who whine about 'fake geek girls'.  Yet I never seem to find the actual whiners.

It's like people complaining how much more dangerous driving is with all these unicorns running around, and I've yet to see a unicorn.  I'm more than half convinced this a SJW meme that keeps getting recycled as a talking point, because the noise is heavily slanted towards the folks with the prybars.

I only met real geek girls. They are usually a minority among geek guys. Fake geek girls don't exist. If you are not a geek, you probably have other guys you can chase after. And we are stuck with the leftovers. :D

No, really most girls I know get a boring office job and marry a construction worker who throws with beer in the weekend and start pooping out children. The girls who like science fiction, rpg's and magic the gathering are usually really nerdy and a bridge too far for me.

Hey pundit, why do you spend so much time writing about all this negative stuff all the time? Why don't you just let it slide and ignore it? All this energy going towards things that don't affect your life. :rolleyes:

I think "fake geek girls" came about more in the video game community; girls posing with a PlayStation with a caption reading "I love Nintendo!"

It was meant as a joke, and of course, some people just didn't get it.
Then some people looked to get 'gamer cred' about how stoopid those gurls are!
Thus, the gatekeeping was born.

apropos to nothing really I modified my position ont eh ride into work.

I think men are likely to go to places where women gather in the hope of meeting women. Yoga class being the most popular example here it seems.

Women are more likely to fake interest in a topic to get closer to a particular man. I guess you could call it the "gamer's girlfriend" phenomena.

Women don't need to go anywhere to meet men because of the social convention of men having to initiate the social contact. Thsi results in women "meeting" men all the time and so what they really want is to escape from men when they go to yoga or Book Club.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;781701I only met real geek girls. They are usually a minority among geek guys. Fake geek girls don't exist. If you are not a geek, you probably have other guys you can chase after. And we are stuck with the leftovers. :D

Tonight I had a drink with drop dead gorgeous aerospace engineer getting her masters here. The topic drifted into her experiments using a plasma field in the laminar flow area in lieu of a traditional control surface (which is an interest of mine as well). Real is real. She did complain about her not being taken seriously about being an engineer because of being so attractive, so it is a thing.

there was an episode of Heroes of Cosplay last year when all the other women were pretty pissed at another frequent cosplayer who didn't know shit about any of the geek stuff, and wore bikini costumes just to flaunt her fake tits and revel in the attention she got

Quote from: 3rik;781462Where can we see the video you're referring to?

No idea anymore; it was on G+, a year ago. This is an archival blog entry.

Quote from: flyerfan1991;781489Really? I wonder if that's a generational thing, having girls interested in a guy's activities to have sex with them, because I rarely saw that sort of thing when I was younger.  It was typically the other way around.

It's pretty much the plot to the movie Grease, so I don't think its anything new.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;781502I don't doubt you have but I am also quite certain this is such a rarity it isn't worth factoring in.

If someone is at the table to game, I really don't care why or what other reasons might have brought them there. If someone new at the table is a woman, I see no reason to assume she is there just to get in some gamer's pants.

Exactly.

Even if a girl is there purely for social reasons, be they romantic or otherwise, gaming has always has the casual gamer; the dude who comes every week because he is in your social group. He never gets that into the game, but he likes hanging out with his friends. The gaming world has gone on just fine with these "Fake Gamers" in our midst for decades. I don't see why we need to freak out if some girls might engage in similar behavior.

I've had groups that were 33-75% g for the last 25 years, so I have gamed with a fair number of women. I would say only two of those were there because of a guy. And you know what? They did just fine. Their lack of genuine geek cred, whatever the fuck that is, didn't ruin the atmosphere for us at all.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;781560The idea that geek is such a coveted title that folks would endure hours and hours of tabletop play just to gain some weird prestige is also stupid.

Yep. As,  Hollywood has taught us, all you need to do to be a fake geek (guy or girl) is put on some non-prescription glasses and an anime T-shirt. Anyone that actually sits down to play an RPG is a gamer.

Quote from: Novastar;781709I think "fake geek girls" came about more in the video game community; girls posing with a PlayStation with a caption reading "I love Nintendo!"

Fake video game credentials actually make a little sense, both for men or women, as it's a real industry, with real jobs that pay real money. I don't know why anyone would fuck around pretending to be a tabletop gamer. The highest level of economic success here is being able to boast that you make just enough money that your spouse doesn't kick you out of the house.

You raise a good point. There is nothing wrong with the casual gamer and thinking back it is pretty clear to me we always had guys in our groups who were mainly there because their friends played D&D, and they never really got into it as much as the others. They still played and added something to the table though. There was never any concern among is that these were 'fake gamers' wasting our time.

Quote from: Ephemerer;781839Anyone that actually sits down to play an RPG is a gamer

I'm challenging this in the face of my anecdote.  Let's clarify:

Someone who is only pretending to enjoy gaming so they can manipulate social structures can be 'a gamer'?

Is there no circumstances where someone is not a gamer, then?   Have we abandoned the BNG concept entirely?

Seems illogical.

To be clear, this is separate from "fake geek girl" where one is not geek enough by gender alone.  I am referring to this....

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=poser

Is your position that this cannot exist in RPGs?

Quote from: Ephemerer;781839Yep. As,  Hollywood has taught us, all you need to do to be a fake geek (guy or girl) is put on some non-prescription glasses and an anime T-shirt. Anyone that actually sits down to play an RPG is a gamer.

I think there's a lot of truth in this.  I mean, I suppose there are people who don't take the gaming part very seriously, but that's both men and women so it's not like women should get all the criticism.  But as you point out, most fake geeks are the ones who portray themselves as a geek, but don't actually do any of the geek related activities.

I think we can also blame people like Russell Westbrook for stuff like this, since he sets trends (being an NBA all star and everything) and he's a horrible offender about trying to look like a geek without actually being one.  His glasses don't even have lenses.  They're just rims.

Quote from: mcbobboIs your position that this cannot exist in RPGs?

It could, but most "posers" are posing because they want to fit in or add to their cache.  It seems to me it'd be rarer for rpgs to provide this kind of social gratification, because they exist at the social margins - there are more popular/mainstream-cool activities the poser could seek out.

Also, the division between "genuine" geekdom and others (casual gamers, "posers," whatever) is probably pretty fluid: i.e. there are going to be plenty of people that start as casual gamers (or are there because their boyfriend/girlfriend likes the game) who turn into much more hardcore geeks because they find they actually enjoy the game. Gatekeeping only discourages this kind of transition.

The problem lies with the need for some kind of group validation as 'gamers'. Do you play games? Then you're a gamer. I don't see people who play basketball for recreation, or sing karaoke, or drink beer, going around and self-identifying as 'ball players' or 'singers' or 'drinkers' and claiming they're part of some community. It's just something they do.

Quote from: Steerpike;781877It could, but most "posers" are posing because they want to fit in or add to their cache.  It seems to me it'd be rarer for rpgs to provide this kind of social gratification, because they exist at the social margins - there are more popular/mainstream-cool activities the poser could seek out.

Also, the division between "genuine" geekdom and others (casual gamers, "posers," whatever) is probably pretty fluid: i.e. there are going to be plenty of people that start as casual gamers (or are there because their boyfriend/girlfriend likes the game) who turn into much more hardcore geeks because they find they actually enjoy the game. Gatekeeping only discourages this kind of transition.

Being a big geek and a huge sports fan, I can tell you that I see a lot more posers in football than I do in gaming.  Especially last year when the Seahawks made their run to the Superbowl

"You're a big football fan huh?  That's why you can't name more than 2 QBs in the league, and why you can't pronounce any of the Seahawks' names right?"

Quote from: Sacrosanct;781886Being a big geek and a huge sports fan, I can tell you that I see a lot more posers in football than I do in gaming.  Especially last year when the Seahawks made their run to the Superbowl

"You're a big football fan huh?  That's why you can't name more than 2 QBs in the league, and why you can't pronounce any of the Seahawks' names right?"

Again, i think the attitude of weeding out posers is tribal and childish. Of course when people are into something, if you make it seem like they need to have advanced knowledge in order to accepted, they may claim more experience and insight than they actually have...but who cares if someone is either just starting out or has only a casual interest? Plenty of newbies in any any activity feign more knowledge than they have so they'll fit in. The idea that we need to weed out people with insufficient knowledge or interest at the table is just a baffling notion to me. If someone is there and playing, then I accept them as a gamer.

Quote from: mcbobbo;781851I'm challenging this in the face of my anecdote.  Let's clarify:

Someone who is only pretending to enjoy gaming so they can manipulate social structures can be 'a gamer'?

Is there no circumstances where someone is not a gamer, then?   Have we abandoned the BNG concept entirely?

Seems illogical.

To be clear, this is separate from "fake geek girl" where one is not geek enough by gender alone.  I am referring to this....

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=poser

Is your position that this cannot exist in RPGs?

Posers are something people worry about when they are 13.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;781901Posers are something people worry about when they are 13.

Depends on the stakes.  In gaming, you're right.  In competitive shooting, I can tell you first hand, it's a bit more serious.

At the end of the dealing with a poser is no different than any other disruptive player.  You treat them like a person, discuss the issue, and either move on or disinvite.

I was just concerned the culture was overcompensating.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;781901Posers are something people worry about when they are 13.

Eh, maybe, but if you turn it around into office politics, posers are far more frequent.  And, dare I might add, gender neutral, as ambition knows no limits.

Quote from: mcbobbo;781912Depends on the stakes.  In gaming, you're right.  In competitive shooting, I can tell you first hand, it's a bit more serious.

At the end of the dealing with a poser is no different than any other disruptive player.  You treat them like a person, discuss the issue, and either move on or disinvite.

I was just concerned the culture was overcompensating.

Sure, if you are involved in a potentially dangerous activity, of course you need requirements to make sure people have the level of skill needed that they don't put themselves or others in danger. That isn't a matter of people being posers or not posers, that is simply a matter of whether they meet the regulating body's requirements.

With gaming, it seems like people are trying to decipher who the real gamers are and who the fake gamers are. What folks are saying is, it isn't such a black and white thing (there is a spectrum of intensity of interest an investment).

To me it just sounds like people are taking their hobby way too seriously. I am not interested in identifying possible posers at my table. If someone is disruptive that is its own issue. If they just don't have the level of investment, knowledge, or interest as others, but they are still there to play, it isn't a concern. So bottom line, if you are at the table playing in my game, to me your a gamer. Worst possible scenario is I have some person in the group who is there for some other reason that has nothing to do with gaming and I am still making them feel welcome.

Quote from: flyerfan1991;781919Eh, maybe, but if you turn it around into office politics, posers are far more frequent.  And, dare I might add, gender neutral, as ambition knows no limits.

People lying about their interests to benefit their career is nothing new. The day there is a horde of people clamoring to feign interest in D&D to please their bosses, I will be sure to have a PDF sale for them. Until then, in gaming, it is an absolute non-issue. My point isn't that these things don't happen it is that only children worry about them happening. If the guy next to me is expressing more interest in football than he actually has, I care zero about that. If someone is trying to impress me with their interest in something I like, and it is obvious they have less interest or experience with it than they are letting on...I have zero interest in worrying about that. I will talk with them happily about the subject because it interests me and hope their interest and knowledge increases as they desire it to.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;781926People lying about their interests to benefit their career is nothing new. The day there is a horde of people clamoring to feign interest in D&D to please their bosses, I will be sure to have a PDF sale for them. Until then, in gaming, it is an absolute non-issue. My point isn't that these things don't happen it is that only children worry about them happening. If the guy next to me is expressing more interest in football than he actually has, I care zero about that. If someone is trying to impress me with their interest in something I like, and it is obvious they have less interest or experience with it than they are letting on...I have zero interest in worrying about that. I will talk with them happily about the subject because it interests me and hope their interest and knowledge increases as they desire it to.

I'll completely agree with that, as long as we're talking about people who are socially thirteen years old as opposed to people who are physically thirteen. It's the social age that determines the poseur activity.

Quote from: flyerfan1991;781930I'll completely agree with that, as long as we're talking about people who are socially thirteen years old as opposed to people who are physically thirteen. It's the social age that determines the poseur activity.

I am saying it is normal for a 13 year old to worry about posers. For an adult it is a bit sad. Back when I was 13 and in a band we worried about people around us being posers. Whether it was a metalhead poser or a guitar poser. Some guys definitely picked up a guitar, then never really learned how to play, because it got them attention. Some people got into metal because their friends were there. Ultimately this stuff doesn't matter. 9 times out of 10 the poser we were ostracizing went on to develop a strong interest in the music. In the case of the musician poser, hey they still learned more about playing music than most people and some of them actually did start to learn after a while. Either way, accepting them as one of us, would have had zero impact on my guitar playing or my music listening. Really how I think the spectra of the poser gets used, is to keep people out, even people who actually have a genuine interest in getting in, because we want a hobby, activity, or area of interest to be ours alone, to be the special thing we have access to. That is why when the popular kid in school expressed interest in metal or in guitar, we called him a poser, because really he presented a threat to our monopoly on the activity.

It is 13 year old behavior. The whole poser thing is about protecting cliques. It's the "he only has one Metallica album, so he isn't a real metalhead" mentality. Well, one album is a good start.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;781932Either way, accepting them as one of us, would have had zero impact on my guitar playing or my music listening.
...
It is 13 year old behavior. The whole poser thing is about protecting cliques. It's the "he only has one Metallica album, so he isn't a real metalhead" mentality. Well, one album is a good start.

First I disagree that letting someone who is just learning guitar pretend to be skilled enough to lead your band is not harmful.  You're mixing "not being an asshole to them" with "letting them impact your enjoyment".  Unnecessarily,  too.

Second I don't think anyone is worried about 'new but learning' participants.  Personally I love starter sets and the like.

No, I think the concern is more around (not being able to spot) people who only pretend to share your interests.

I went to a university with a worldwide reputation for mathematics and computer science, and a very large gamer community to boot (at one point, the local college town boasted more tabletop hobby gaming stores than Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal combined).

Post 1997 or so, when geek culture started mainstreaming due to the Web 1.0 boom, I saw a lot of reasonably attractive women with no real interest in geek topics hanging around the club offices and the Math/CS student lounge because it was an easy way to get attention from a lot of men with very little competition from other women.  The extent to which they slept their way through the student population varied widely, but it was disruptive as hell to the community and these girls were very manipulative when it came to twisting the guys around their little fingers.

OTOH there were women who were legitimately interested, played the games, ran their own campaigns, and were accepted without question as a result.

Faux geek girls absolutely do exist, and they are disliked for a reason.  While it's not exactly fair for every woman in the hobby to have to prove her geek cred, it's not like the poseurs don't exist, either.

One thing that I think fuels this is the fact that girls seem a lot more prone to describing themselves as "gamer girls!" or "geek girls!" when they have only a shallow or very limited interest in the usual spate of topics.  The men I know don't self-describe as gamers unless it's their primary leisure-time activity.  I've known a number of women who will self-describe as "gamer girls!" because they played D&D with their older brother in high school a couple of times.

Quote from: daniel_ream;781938Faux geek girls absolutely do exist, and they are disliked for a reason.  While it's not exactly fair for every woman in the hobby to have to prove her geek cred, it's not like the poseurs don't exist, either.

You and I were posting at the same time, but I think I may understand the desire to vet out geek cred - some of us can't spot the posers.

As with my sister in law story above, I had no idea getting her into a gaming group was a bad idea. I took her at her word.  What she really wanted was to create something in common with me and my other brothers, and let's be generous and say she didn't think it through.

Point is, until I saw her doing the same thing to someone else, I had no idea.

I doubt I am alone in that.

In my years of gaming I had never meet any woman that was a fake gamer girl.  They just wanted to play and so did I.  I had heard stories of the piss off girlfriend, but that was it.  Just stories I had heard.

Hell I never seen a guy chase out a woman because she was a "fake" either.  Where are these angry men with pitch forks screaming for the fake women to leave the gaming hobby, or demanding proof of their geekness.  I always hear about them, but I never seen one in the flesh either.

Quote from: daniel_ream;781938Post 1997 or so, when geek culture started mainstreaming due to the Web 1.0 boom, I saw a lot of reasonably attractive women with no real interest in geek topics hanging around the club offices and the Math/CS student lounge because it was an easy way to get attention from a lot of men with very little competition from other women.  The extent to which they slept their way through the student population varied widely, but it was disruptive as hell to the community and these girls were very manipulative when it came to twisting the guys around their little fingers.

I don't know what you called them in your neighborhood, but we had a word for that in mine: Golddigger!
Gold Digger! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vwNcNOTVzY)

Quote from: mcbobbo;781937First I disagree that letting someone who is just learning guitar pretend to be skilled enough to lead your band is not harmful.  You're mixing "not being an asshole to them" with "letting them impact your enjoyment".  Unnecessarily,  too.

Good thing that isn't what I said. Never said they had to join the band (in fact you have to be very selective letting people into a band) just that they could be members of the community.

QuoteNo, I think the concern is more around (not being able to spot) people who only pretend to share your interests.

That is just paranoid nonsense if you spend an ounce of your time worrying about your inability to spot people pretending to share your interests.

Quote from: daniel_ream;781938The extent to which they slept their way through the student population varied widely, but it was disruptive as hell to the community and these girls were very manipulative when it came to twisting the guys around their little fingers.

What does 'disruptive to the community' even mean? Take any five guys who are friends, regardless of hobbies or 'communities', and when one or more of them get girlfriends it will be 'disruptive.' Because yeah, the guy might like spending time hanging out with his girlfriend, going to dinner, and getting laid more than playing Talisman or Call of Cthulhu. The problem isn't women, but guys who are insecure and need to belong to 'communities' in order to give themselves identity.

Fuck communities. If you have a genuine personal connection with someone, it's called 'friendship'. Everything else is tribalism.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;781956Good thing that isn't what I said. Never said they had to join the band (in fact you have to be very selective letting people into a band) just that they could be members of the community.

You can be selective about any of your peer groups, as you see fit.  And with bands and game tables you're looking for beneficial participation, typically.

So it seems we agree.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;781956That is just paranoid nonsense if you spend an ounce of your time worrying about your inability to spot people pretending to share your interests.

I'd be clever and flag the TBP trope here, but I can't remember it.  "Denying experiences" maybe?

I see it like this:

1) Finding out someone disagrees with your interests is disappointing. The degree varies on how much you value their opinion.
2) Finding out they additionally deceived you is worse.
3) Finding out these two above in public can be embarrassing.

If you see paranoia in any of the above, let me know.

Quote from: mcbobbo;781962I'd be clever and flag the TBP trope here, but I can't remember it.  "Denying experiences" maybe?

There is a reason we reject that here: people misremember and make stuff up all the time, especially on line. If I accepted every piece of anecdotal information that crossed my screen, then I'd have to believe some pretty unusual stuff like Lizards running the government.

QuoteI see it like this:

1) Finding out someone disagrees with your interests is disappointing. The degree varies on how much you value their opinion.
2) Finding out they additionally deceived you is worse.
3) Finding out these two above in public can be embarrassing.

If you see paranoia in any of the above, let me know.

I do but it does of course depend on the specific situation. However it seems like people here are reading the worst possible motives into situations where they are not necessarily in play. I mean if you someone deceives you maliciously, sure that is a problem. If someone tells a white lie about their interests to spend time with you, no, you do not have my sympathies.

Quote from: Snowman0147;781946Hell I never seen a guy chase out a woman because she was a "fake" either.  Where are these angry men with pitch forks screaming for the fake women to leave the gaming hobby, or demanding proof of their geekness.  I always hear about them, but I never seen one in the flesh either.

I haven't met any people in real life myself who chase away women they think are fake geeks, but we have had a number of posters here assure us fake geek girls are a real and they seem to think they present a threat to the gaming community in some way.

Quote from: daniel_ream;781938I went to a university with a worldwide reputation for mathematics and computer science, and a very large gamer community to boot (at one point, the local college town boasted more tabletop hobby gaming stores than Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal combined).

Post 1997 or so, when geek culture started mainstreaming due to the Web 1.0 boom, I saw a lot of reasonably attractive women with no real interest in geek topics hanging around the club offices and the Math/CS student lounge because it was an easy way to get attention from a lot of men with very little competition from other women.  The extent to which they slept their way through the student population varied widely, but it was disruptive as hell to the community and these girls were very manipulative when it came to twisting the guys around their little fingers.

Maybe things are very different in Canada, but in all my years in the geek community, I've never seen anything that all resembles this...and if it did occur I am pretty sure most of the guys would consider a good problem to have. Attractive women are coming on to you and sleeping with guys because their nerds? Okay, that still doesn't mean they are faking for attention (especially if they are already reasonably attractive as you say). They could just find intelligent guys charming. I don't know, it seems weird since I am sure none of these guys are crying "fake geek" while they are sleeping with them. I'm sure the accusation only fly after they've left and moved on to somebody new.

Is it also possible at all that you were misinformed, had the situation inaccurately described to you by someone who was hurt? This just simply doesn't match anything I've seen at all (and believe me, in when I was younger this is something I would have been on the look out for).

Quote from: Snowman0147;781946In my years of gaming I had never meet any woman that was a fake gamer girl.  They just wanted to play and so did I.  I had heard stories of the piss off girlfriend, but that was it.  Just stories I had heard.

Hell I never seen a guy chase out a woman because she was a "fake" either.  Where are these angry men with pitch forks screaming for the fake women to leave the gaming hobby, or demanding proof of their geekness.  I always hear about them, but I never seen one in the flesh either.

You'll find an inordinate amount of them on XBox Live as well as MMO Gen Chat channels.

Just like "Tits or GTFO!" is a rallying cry to some of these people, others just stalk female toons, trolling for (virtual) sex and being pissed off when they don't get it.

I'm quite familiar with the latter, as I play both male and female toons, and I've had people come up to me --in a battleground, no less-- and ask me to "pop out them titties so we can have a little fun"...

Those are just trolls and they go after anyone.  They are like wolves that go after what shocks the people the most to get attention.  I refuse to register them because they will just waste my time.  People just need to use the block, ban, and ignore options.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;781969I haven't met any people in real life myself who chase away women they think are fake geeks, but we have had a number of posters here assure us fake geek girls are a real and they seem to think they present a threat to the gaming community in some way.

I see a gap between 'a threat' and 'something to be aware of'.  Dickish behavior is seldom more than irritating, whether it be pretending to be something you're not or anything else.

Quote from: Snowman0147;781977Those are just trolls and they go after anyone.  They are like wolves that go after what shocks the people the most to get attention.  I refuse to register them because they will just waste my time.  People just need to use the block, ban, and ignore options.

Trolls? Certainly.

But they do constitute that group that does bitch about "fakes".

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;781971I am pretty sure most of the guys would consider a good problem to have.

Right up until the point that she dumps the guy in question and starts sleeping with the guy on the other side of the table.  For a lot of these guys it was the only time they'd ever had any positive attention from a woman.  I saw lifelong friendships get ruined as a result of this crap.

Seriously, you seem to be going to great lengths to whitewash the motives of these women.

Newsflash, white knights of the Internet - some women really are just self-absorbed and manipulative and there's nothing much more to it than that.  (Or, suffer from low self-esteem such that they prefer to trawl where there's no competition and no chance of rejection).

Call it white knighting if you want, I don't really care. I really just have a lot of trouble buying the idea that legions of women are feigning interest in RPGs so they can have sex with male gamers and leave them heartbroken. Sure anything can happen...this isn't something I have ever seen and it is a problem I think a lot of guys wouldn't mind having. Either way the issue you are describing really isn't one of people faking geek cred (it's pretty incidental): the real issue is people being cruel in love, and yeah, that does happen from time to time (whether someone is pretending to be a geek or not).

Quote from: mcbobbo;781978I see a gap between 'a threat' and 'something to be aware of'.  Dickish behavior is seldom more than irritating, whether it be pretending to be something you're not or anything else.

I just don't see it as that dickish I guess. Pretending interest in something so someone can fit in, has no real impact on me, and it isn't worth my time trying to decipher a person's motives when they do express interest in stuff I like. Either way, most of the time, in my experience, when people accuse someone of pretending to be interested in something, the reality is the person does have an interest but is either new to the activity or just not as obsessive about it as others. No skin off my back in both cases.

The real 'issue' here is that women, too, can be dicks.

I have never, in 25+ years of gaming, met a woman who wasn't actually interested in geek stuff that hung around geeks just to get guys. Ever.

I have run into more than a few cases of women dragged to geek stuff by their existing geek boyfriends, making a valiant but futile effort to try to be interested in something they have no interest in for the sake of their relationship.

I've also met a couple, very few but not zero, cases of women who were already geeks that were able to take advantage of the relative gender disparity in their chosen interest to be more of a 'queen bee' than they might otherwise have been able to be.  But in all those cases, the fact that they were able to enjoy more attention and potential romantic partners from girl-desperate geeks was a side-effect of their existing and very real geek interests.  I've never ever seen a woman 'pretending' to be a geek.

Outside of paid booth-babes and TV actresses on "nerd" shows, I don't even think that's possible.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;781995Outside of paid booth-babes and TV actresses on "nerd" shows, I don't even think that's possible.

RPGPundit

To be fair to 'booth babes' - sometimes they DO become interested in the geeky stuff around them on the tables at conventions.

I know personally two women who are examples of that who were both at GEN CON last weekend.
One was well-known as Chainmail Girl" for years helping at various booths and tables. She actually plays games has her own preferences and opinions about various games and game designers. She met her husband originally at a convention years ago. They got married at Gen Con and Kevin Greenwood gave away the bride.
These days they run a T-shirt business and were selling t-shirts at Gen Con.

Then there is "Con Kitty" - she used to do body makeup of tiger stripes combined with a chainmail bikini top. Over the years she helped out at many booths at GEN Con and ORIGINS (usually smaller game publishers). This year she showed up just to have fun and for two days was dressed up as Carmen Sandiego.

- Ed C.

If someone is at an event or participating in an activity (Gaming, comics, music, or whatever) and they're not being disruptive or anti-social, it's just plain paranoid and weird to start questioning their motives and getting into strange dick-measuring contests about whether their interest is "Real" or not. It betrays a deep insecurity on the part of the wannabe "Fake exposer".

Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;782058If someone is at an event or participating in an activity (Gaming, comics, music, or whatever) and they're not being disruptive or anti-social, it's just plain paranoid and weird to start questioning their motives and getting into strange dick-measuring contests about whether their interest is "Real" or not. It betrays a deep insecurity on the part of the wannabe "Fake exposer".

Exactly.

There are fakes of all stripes, but pretending that women are any more likely to don geekdom just to hang with us?  Gentlemen, we are gamers.  The only fakery there is our delusions of adequacy, my own raw, barely contained sexiness notwithstanding.

Quote from: daniel_ream;781938I've known a number of women who will self-describe as "gamer girls!" because they played D&D with their older brother in high school a couple of times.

Over the years, I have had a number of encounters with a girl at school or work who sees my gaming books and reacted with excitement that she used to play those kind of game with her older brother. In every single one of those cases, I recruited someone that would be a solid member of my gaming group.

I pretty much all these cases, they had liked gaming when they were younger, but didn't commit because they got tired of taking shit for being the little sister. Given the chance to actually play with people that weren't going to be assholes, the had a good time.

Maybe I am colorblind, but I don't see the red flag here.

Quote from: mcbobbo;781937First I disagree that letting someone who is just learning guitar pretend to be skilled enough to lead your band is not harmful.  You're mixing "not being an asshole to them" with "letting them impact your enjoyment".  Unnecessarily,  too.

You keep mixing up skill level and interest. Whether someone is genuinely interested in a musical genre has nothing to with their ability to play lead guitar.

To drop the analogy, I know plenty of genuine, life-long geeks where I avoid playing in any game they run. Being a real geek doesn't make you a good GM. And they have years of being shitty GMs with no sign of improvement. At least some girl who is new to scene is someone who might develop skill.

Quote from: Snowman0147;781946Hell I never seen a guy chase out a woman because she was a "fake" either.  Where are these angry men with pitch forks screaming for the fake women to leave the gaming hobby, or demanding proof of their geekness.  I always hear about them, but I never seen one in the flesh either.

McBobbo and Daniel Ream both seem ready to light the torches.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;781990Call it white knighting if you want, I don't really care. I really just have a lot of trouble buying the idea that legions of women are feigning interest in RPGs so they can have sex with male gamers and leave them heartbroken. Sure anything can happen...this isn't something I have ever seen and it is a problem I think a lot of guys wouldn't mind having. Either way the issue you are describing really isn't one of people faking geek cred (it's pretty incidental): the real issue is people being cruel in love, and yeah, that does happen from time to time (whether someone is pretending to be a geek or not).

Exactly. I've dated girls that previously dumped one of my friends. I've had friends date girls that dumped me. Sometimes these were people in my gaming circles, sometimes they weren't. It's just a part of world in which sexually-compatible people mingle.

Did anyone, including me, get their feeling hurt. Hell, yeah! Did I ever hurt any of my friends. Most definitely. But in all cases, we got the fuck over it.

It seems to me that real issue here isn't fake geek girls. It's that once you hit puberty, life gets more complicated. You either adjust, or build a clubhouse to get away from the girls that ruined everything.

Quote from: AteTheHeckUp;782072There are fakes of all stripes, but pretending that women are any more likely to don geekdom just to hang with us?  Gentlemen, we are gamers.  The only fakery there is our delusions of adequacy, my own raw, barely contained sexiness notwithstanding.

To my own view, as well as many of the others on the 'it exists' side, we're merely arguing that women are equally likely, not more.

OP claims it does not exist.

Quote from: AteTheHeckUp;782072There are fakes of all stripes, but pretending that women are any more likely to don geekdom just to hang with us?  Gentlemen, we are gamers.  The only fakery there is our delusions of adequacy, my own raw, barely contained sexiness notwithstanding.

(http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/slow_clap_citizen_kane.gif)

Quote from: mcbobbo;782077To my own view, as well as many of the others on the 'it exists' side, we're merely arguing that women are equally likely, not more.

OP claims it does not exist.

Yep.  People are people, and one thing people do is fake their way into social groups.  Every social group, culture and sub-culture.  I'm sure the referenced phenomenon does technically exist, but if we're going to look for it, we're going to stumble over fake-geek *men*, too.  As a "thing," then, as a hobby-wide conspiracy, it's also true to say that there's no such thing.

Quote from: daniel_ream;781984Newsflash, white knights of the Internet - some women really are just self-absorbed and manipulative and there's nothing much more to it than that.  (Or, suffer from low self-esteem such that they prefer to trawl where there's no competition and no chance of rejection).

Sure. And men can be sleazy d-bags as well. But what does any of that have to do with gaming?

Quote from: Ephemerer;782076I've dated girls that previously dumped one of my friends. I've had friends date girls that dumped me. Sometimes these were people in my gaming circles, sometimes they weren't. It's just a part of world in which sexually-compatible people mingle.

Did anyone, including me, get their feeling hurt. Hell, yeah! Did I ever hurt any of my friends. Most definitely. But in all cases, we got the fuck over it.

It seems to me that real issue here isn't fake geek girls. It's that once you hit puberty, life gets more complicated. You either adjust, or build a clubhouse to get away from the girls that ruined everything.

This. There are complications, dishonesty, and hurt feeling that go along with being a young, single person playing the rating-dating-mating game. Part of life. None of this stuff is peculiar to gaming. The only reasons we're even talking about this are:

1) A weird need to regard people who play games as a community.
2) The emotional immaturity of some gamers for whom a convention or a gaming group is their first/only exposure to the rating-dating-mating game.

Nothing is more sad than to hear guys pontificate about women, it is best to just stfu. That said, this thread has pretty much run it's course.

Quote from: AteTheHeckUp;782084Yep.  People are people, and one thing people do is fake their way into social groups.  Every social group, culture and sub-culture.  I'm sure the referenced phenomenon does technically exist, but if we're going to look for it, we're going to stumble over fake-geek *men*, too.  As a "thing," then, as a hobby-wide conspiracy, it's also true to say that there's no such thing.

Fair enough.

Have I seen people of both sexes self-identify with a social hobby group for reasons appearing to have to do more with sexual interest then the hobby? Umm, yeah.

Have I seen the "Queen Bee" syndrome, where a girl will head a group of socially inept boys and keep them around like a pack of puppies looking for attention? Umm, yeah.

Saying crap like that doesn't exist just makes you an idiot.  It happens.
Saying it's a problem within this specific hobby and the "fake gamer girl" is a thing, makes you a bigger idiot.
Thinking the "anti fake gamer girl" movement is a thing makes you just as much of an idiot - with an agenda.

Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;782058If someone is at an event or participating in an activity (Gaming, comics, music, or whatever) and they're not being disruptive or anti-social, it's just plain paranoid and weird to start questioning their motives and getting into strange dick-measuring contests about whether their interest is "Real" or not. It betrays a deep insecurity on the part of the wannabe "Fake exposer".

I'm not sure what it betrays - insecurity of some kind is probably the best guess - but it sure is a very odd thing to spend any time at all worrying or being concerned about.

Quote from: Ephemerer;782076To drop the analogy, I know plenty of genuine, life-long geeks where I avoid playing in any game they run. Being a real geek doesn't make you a good GM. And they have years of being shitty GMs with no sign of improvement. At least some girl who is new to scene is someone who might develop skill.

Yes, indeed. The level of interest one has in the hobby as well as the familiarity and knowledge one has of the hobby are orthogonal to whether or not that one is fun to play RPGs with in the long term.

Interest can grow with exposure to the hobby, knowledge can be gained with time and effort, but someone being an asshat is almost impossible to fix.

Spending time weeding the asshats out of your gaming experience is a useful thing to do. But the amount of geek cred a person has is at best* irrelevant to whether or not they are an asshat.


* If I had to guess, I would guess that asshattery is slightly or mildly correlated to the amount of geek cred, but that may well be just selection bias on my part.

Quote from: Ephemerer;782076Maybe I am colorblind, but I don't see the red flag here.

I'm simply pointing out that when a girl says "I'm a gamer" and a guy says "I'm a gamer", there are likely very different levels of investment in the hobby between them.  That can contribute to the perception that they "aren't real gamers".

QuoteMcBobbo and Daniel Ream both seem ready to light the torches.

Fuck off back to Tangency.  Some women aren't very nice people.  Some men aren't very nice people, either, but we don't pretend that their behaviour doesn't exist or make excuses for them.  This whole bizarro thread is like saying lawncrappers and catpissmen don't really exist and people are being misandrist for pointing out their patterns of behaviour.

My experience is probably skewed somewhat because I started gaming in my mid-20s. We've never had an obviously fake geek at our gaming table. Anybody who's shown up was there because they wanted to play D&D or GURPS or Talisman or whatever else, not to get into someone's pants. Not saying it doesn't happen; it just hasn't been a thing for us.

I went to an engineering school, pretty much Geek Central. The lobby of my dorm would have several tables of guys playing D&D on Friday and Saturday nights. It looked like a helluva lot of fun, but I was too intimidated to approach them. So I kept hanging out with people I didn't have much in common with and going to events that were "meh" instead of doing what really would've been more my speed. I guess I was a fake non-geek girl.

Quote from: daniel_ream;782176I'm simply pointing out that when a girl says "I'm a gamer" and a guy says "I'm a gamer", there are likely very different levels of investment in the hobby between them.  That can contribute to the perception that they "aren't real gamers".

I haven't noticed that to be the case, but even it is the case, so fucking what? Why is that a reason to get one's shorts in a knot.

Someone having a lower level of investment in the hobby tells you nothing about whether or not they are "nice people." Cat Piss Man has at least as much investment in the hobby as do most gamers. Does the fact that Cat Piss Man has the same level of investment in the hobby mean you want to play RPGs with him?

Whenever someone says "fake geek girl" I just hear " I'm pissed off that person wont sleep with me".

Quote from: TristramEvans;782216Whenever someone says "fake geek girl" I just hear " I'm pissed off that person wont sleep with me".

Whereas I hear, "I'm really just pissed off that Mom won't drive me to the hobby store." ;)

The only "Fake Geek girls" I've encountered in reality have been the models and actresses hired to dress up and look attractive to help sales at certain events and other functions. and so what? Sex sells. Its true in gaming as much as anything else and its not as if the bikini models in beer commercials or Ax ads are really that turned on by the products.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;781543The whole concept of fake geek is incredibly adolescent. I mean it is up there with worrying about posers or checking people's music knowledge to challenge their claim as metal heads.

Yes exactly. But I think puerile is a better term for it. Its still dumb even if you are an adolescent.

Quote from: Lynn;782251Yes exactly. But I think puerile is a better term for it. Its still dumb even if you are an adolescent.

Puerile. That is the word that this thread has been looking for.

Quote from: TristramEvans;782216Whenever someone says "fake geek girl" I just hear " I'm pissed off that person wont sleep with me".

That makes no sense at all. Genuine geek girls are the ones that are there to roll dice kill shit and steal its treasure. They are the ones that have no interest in sleeping with people.

The ones that might be there for social reasons, the so called fake geek girls, are surely by definition the ones that might sleep with a geeky bloke to stir up some drama

Quote from: jibbajibba;782282That makes no sense at all. Genuine geek girls are the ones that are there to roll dice kill shit and steal its treasure. They are the ones that have no interest in sleeping with people.

So in your mind real geek girls are asexual. Are real geek guys also asexual?

Quote from: jibbajibba;782282That makes no sense at all. Genuine geek girls are the ones that are there to roll dice kill shit and steal its treasure. They are the ones that have no interest in sleeping with people.

The ones that might be there for social reasons, the so called fake geek girls, are surely by definition the ones that might sleep with a geeky bloke to stir up some drama

The point wasnt what a "fake" or "real" geek would do, its about the person making the claim; as far as I'm concerned they're the only one with the problem. Anyone can call themselves a geek or involve themselves in geek activities to any extent they wish. Any idiot who thinks they're in a position to stand in judgement of that obviously has issues.

Quote from: jibbajibba;782282The ones that might be there for social reasons, the so called fake geek girls, are surely by definition the ones that might sleep with a geeky bloke to stir up some drama

So getting together to play games with people for "social reasons" is suspect now? You must approach gaming with a kind of an ideological purity that would make the TBP crowd blush.

Quote from: daniel_ream;782176I'm simply pointing out that when a girl says "I'm a gamer" and a guy says "I'm a gamer", there are likely very different levels of investment in the hobby between them.  That can contribute to the perception that they "aren't real gamers".

In my opinion, if anyone - man or woman - says "I'm a gamer," I assume he or she is an insecure dweeb. Playing games is something people do. Declaring it as an identity is weird and sad.

See, I tend to recognize it more for video games, since brand loyalty is far more important, in that arena.

Quote from: Ephemerer;782341So getting together to play games with people for "social reasons" is suspect now? You must approach gaming with a kind of an ideological purity that would make the TBP crowd blush.

Quite the opposite actually :)

I was just amazed that a quarter of all the post on the front page of the site were total bollocks unrelated to gaming like this.

Quote from: Bren;782293So in your mind real geek girls are asexual. Are real geek guys also asexual?

not through choice ......

Not most of the geek girls I know...

I had been looking forward to seeing the Expendable 3 for a while now.  My wife was generally psyched about it too, and we were looking at possibly watching it while on vacation.  We decided to let the oldest boy pick the movie, and while running down the choices he pointed out that mom was making a 'yuck' face when I talked about that movie.

Busted on it, she confessed she hated the first two movies and only went along with the idea they should exist because I enjoy them so much.

I'm sort of bummed out that I missed on this magical Shangri-La where hot women infiltrated CS and Engineering depts and roleplaying nerd groups in order to sleep with the nerd-men.

Quote from: ArrozConLeche;782482I'm sort of bummed out that I missed on this magical Shangri-La where hot women infiltrated CS and Engineering depts and roleplaying nerd groups in order to sleep with the nerd-men.

I'm pretty sure that this happened only in Revenge of the Nerds.

Quote from: ArrozConLeche;782482I'm sort of bummed out that I missed on this magical Shangri-La where hot women infiltrated CS and Engineering depts and roleplaying nerd groups in order to sleep with the nerd-men.

Tell me about it.

Quote from: flyerfan1991;782483I'm pretty sure that this happened only in Revenge of the Nerds.

Or The Big Bang Theory

Quote from: Nexus;782486Or The Big Bang Theory

Nah, that's just Leonard.

Quote from: flyerfan1991;782487Nah, that's just Leonard.

Yeah, gotta give you that one. :)

Quote from: Nexus;782486Or The Big Bang Theory

Actually, the guys in the Big Bang Theory would be quite a catch for a waitress. Dudes gotta be making high five figures with cash to burn since they don't seem to have mortgages. Penny is no dummy.

Engineering and other tech fields are about as stable provider careers as you can get in today's economy. Smart women know that. They don't want to turn 32 with the prospects that the only single men left are Staples clerks and drywallers.

Quote from: Haffrung;782515Actually, the guys in the Big Bang Theory would be quite a catch for a waitress. Dudes gotta be making high five figures with cash to burn since they don't seem to have mortgages. Penny is no dummy.

Engineering and other tech fields are about as stable provider careers as you can get in today's economy. Smart women know that. They don't want to turn 32 with the prospects that the only single men left are Staples clerks and drywallers.

Well, there's a difference between getting with a stable nerd after they've sown their wild oats, and doing that when they're in their prime and can have any man they want.

Quote from: ArrozConLeche;782482I'm sort of bummed out that I missed on this magical Shangri-La where hot women infiltrated CS and Engineering depts and roleplaying nerd groups in order to sleep with the nerd-men.

It was awesome!

Quote from: jeff37923;782548It was awesome!

Was? :D

Quote from: ArrozConLeche;782538Well, there's a difference between getting with a stable nerd after they've sown their wild oats, and doing that when they're in their prime and can have any man they want.

When it comes to the Big Bang Theory, I have no idea what age the characters are supposed to be. 26? 34? The actors are in their late 30s and early 40s. So well past the age of sowing wild oats.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;781601one big reason why these women* do hang out in "geek circles" (as Brendan implies isn't exactly the place to find studs) is because they are...less than attractive themselves.  Hanging out in more traditional venues doesn't give them any attention.  But in a circle of nerds who are lucky to see breasts in real life?  Suddenly these girls get all kinds of attention.

I've seen that... in gaming and poetry groups and art circles... and of course from males and females alike... but in all cases I can recall the folks in question were also genuinely/primarily interested in the subject at hand. Otherwise it would be like me going to a Superbowl party and trying to feign interest/knowledge... I'd feel and look out of place, I wouldn't fool anyone and whatever I was expecting to get out of it probably wouldn't happen.

Quote from: Simlasa;782564Otherwise it would be like me going to a Superbowl party and trying to feign interest/knowledge... I'd feel and look out of place, I wouldn't fool anyone and whatever I was expecting to get out of it probably wouldn't happen.

I expect to get beer and chips...and hopefully some of those really tasty appetizers made from wrapping bacon around cheese. Mmmm. And to spend some time drinking with my friends who give a shit about sports. It helps that I don't try to feign knowledge or interest. But spending an afternoon at a Superbowl party is a minor time investment compared with playing an RPG week in and week out.

I recall back in graduate school (way back in the 20th century) we had some romantic drama that involved one of my friends, an attractive girl, and some other prospective suitors (who may or may not have been in graduate school too). No one thought that she faked her way through the GRE general and subject exams to get into the graduate school so she could get into some math guy's pants or that she was continuing to fake an interest in math while doing the problem sets each week and passing the exams.

Sometimes an attractive girl with an interest in stuff some guys like is really a girl with an interest in stuff some guys like who is also attractive.

Quote from: Bren;782567Sometimes an attractive girl with an interest in stuff some guys like is really a girl with an interest in stuff some guys like who is also attractive.

And is anyone really saying otherwise?

Quote from: jeff37923;782548It was awesome!

I feel like Jerry Seinfeld listening to George talk about that nightclub full of models.

Quote from: Simlasa;782569And is anyone really saying otherwise?

I haven't noticed that you have and that part of my comment wasn't in reply to your comment. I apologize if the order of my post made it seem like I was disagreeing with you on that point.

But yes, a number of folks in this thread do seem to be doubting that attractive women could or would be routinely interested in geek things. Which is saying that it is unlikely to happen.

Quote from: Nexus;782486Or The Big Bang Theory

I don't find any of the women in that even remotely attractive. :idunno:

Quote from: Bren;782578But yes, a number of folks in this thread do seem to be doubting that attractive women could or would be routinely interested in geek things. Which is saying that it is unlikely to happen.

The first GURPS GM I played under was stunning to look at... and knew/loved that game. Her sister played as well.
On the other hand I have seen attractive people breeze through various counter-cultural circles. Sometimes just checking them out and sometimes stirring up trouble due to some bizarre insecurity or malevolent quirk. I wouldn't call them 'fake geeks' though... just 'troublemakers'.

Quote from: Simlasa;782611The first GURPS GM I played under was stunning to look at... and knew/loved that game. Her sister played as well.
On the other hand I have seen attractive people breeze through various counter-cultural circles. Sometimes just checking them out and sometimes stirring up trouble due to some bizarre insecurity or malevolent quirk. I wouldn't call them 'fake geeks' though... just 'troublemakers'.

My assessment of the grad school girl was she was a troublemaker in the sense you mention above. My friend thought she was quite attractive. Being married, I wasn't looking. I thought her appearance was OK, but her personality was a turn off for me.

I don't think the attractive are any more likely to be troublemakers than the unattractive, but they probably get away with creating more trouble before they are given the old heave-ho because they are attractive. It's probably a lot easier to tell Cat Piss Man or Woman that they aren't welcome in the game since their behavior and their appearance are turn offs.

Quote from: Bren;782621I don't think the attractive are any more likely to be troublemakers than the unattractive, but they probably get away with creating more trouble before they are given the old heave-ho because they are attractive.

I think this is just a general phenomenon.

Quote from: Bren;782621I don't think the attractive are any more likely to be troublemakers than the unattractive, but they probably get away with creating more trouble before they are given the old heave-ho because they are attractive.

That and I wonder how much of the 'trouble' is actually not intentional but stems from other people not being able to get past the 'attractive' element. A woman on a ship isn't source of the problem, the reactions of the crew are.

Quote from: Bren;782578I haven't noticed that you have and that part of my comment wasn't in reply to your comment. I apologize if the order of my post made it seem like I was disagreeing with you on that point.

But yes, a number of folks in this thread do seem to be doubting that attractive women could or would be routinely interested in geek things. Which is saying that it is unlikely to happen.

Attractive/hot women interested in geek things? Sure.

Attractive/hot women as a fake geek girl? Not so much.

Like a lot of other people on the thread, every woman I've seen gaming has been there to play games. Didn't matter if she were hot or not --and I've played with some hot women-- she was there to game.

Quote from: flyerfan1991;782650Attractive/hot women interested in geek things? Sure.

Attractive/hot women as a fake geek girl? Not so much.

Like a lot of other people on the thread, every woman I've seen gaming has been there to play games. Didn't matter if she were hot or not --and I've played with some hot women-- she was there to game.

Then we seem to be saying about the same thing.

How the fuck hasn't Koltar posted another episode of "Koltar's Harem" in this thread yet?

Quote from: Haffrung;782562When it comes to the Big Bang Theory, I have no idea what age the characters are supposed to be. 26? 34? The actors are in their late 30s and early 40s. So well past the age of sowing wild oats.

Mid 20ish? Penny is noted as being 22 during of the earlier seasons so probably around 24-26 in the current episodes.

I found a TOTALLY fake geek girl:

(http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/mannequin-wearing-spec-reading-glasses-white-background-32541110.jpg)

Quote from: Will;782711I found a TOTALLY fake geek girl:

Dude! TMI. That is just way more information about the kinds of roleplaying you are doing when you are away from this forum than I needed or wanted to know. :p

And, because I thought it was funny:
If Comic Geek Girls treated Geek Guys the same way... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UohmGU-Gng)

Quote from: Novastar;782991And, because I thought it was funny:
If Comic Geek Girls treated Geek Guys the same way... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UohmGU-Gng)

Heh. Just perfect.

Quote from: flyerfan1991;782997Heh. Just perfect.

"Yeah, meow"

Quote from: snooggums;782999"Yeah, meow"

"You know, you cosplay as Kal Drogo, you're asking for it."

Quote from: Planet Algol;782688How the fuck hasn't Koltar posted another episode of "Koltar's Harem" in this thread yet?

Probably because I NEVER claimed to have a 'harem' -  that's why.

I did have a an RPG campaign for 4 to 5 years that had three women and one guy as the regular players - with visiting players being women more often than not. (The regular players told their friends it was fun - they made characters)

- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;783820I did have a an RPG campaign for 4 to 5 years that had three women and one guy as the regular players - with visiting players being women more often than not. (The regular players told their friends it was fun - they made characters)

- Ed C.

And now this thread is complete.

I had an ultra-hot GF once, who also happened to be really fucking smart -- a jackpot kind of girl. She is the type who gets hit on randomly on the street or subway; or harassed in the clubs (dudes can be animals).
There was always some sort of curiosity in her for hobby gaming, mostly because her father was somewhat of a geek and she was surrounded by the medium growing up.
When we got together, there was a genuine interest in "learning" to play RPGs. I made it sound fun, was passionate about it, and it would've been just another thing we could do together. So I took her with me. We played Savage Worlds and she did really, really well, so much so, that my pal -- who was the host -- enthusiastically called me up the next day to tell me he saldomly has seen a newbie engage so well with the hobby like she did.
Sadly, she didn't like it at all. She tried. It wasn't for her. Even though she played well, purported to the endeavour, and made it seem like she was into it, she just wasn't.

She wasn't faking it. She just wanted to be part of it. Good thing is, she didn't pursue it further when she saw, that it wasn't for her. I wouldn't have wanted her to be there just because I was, just to bore herself to death. To some degree, I was proud of her decision.