Here's your Mask Protocol

[HappyDaze]

I've spent over a decade in healthcare, and I can tell you that we never had the types of hospitalizations and deaths from "sniffles" that we've seen in the last 18 months. You are totally full of shit.

Funny, because our healthcare system is "overwhelmed" by winter respiratory viruses every single year.

Course we didn't have a reckless policy of trying to jab our way out of it in any previous years. Or 18 months of deliberately suppressing people's immune systems by keeping them away from other people. Along with encouraging them to spend more time stuck indoors sitting on their arses.

You didn't have annual flu vaccines?

And where is your evidence that your system is overwhelme every single year. Show what you have for the last 10 years.

[Garry G]

I've spent over a decade in healthcare, and I can tell you that we never had the types of hospitalizations and deaths from "sniffles" that we've seen in the last 18 months. You are totally full of shit.

Funny, because our healthcare system is "overwhelmed" by winter respiratory viruses every single year.

Course we didn't have a reckless policy of trying to jab our way out of it in any previous years. Or 18 months of deliberately suppressing people's immune systems by keeping them away from other people. Along with encouraging them to spend more time stuck indoors sitting on their arses.

You didn't have annual flu vaccines?

And where is your evidence that your system is overwhelme every single year. Show what you have for the last 10 years.

To be fair he's right in that influenza puts a massive amount of pressure on the NHS in the winter and there are tens of thousands of deaths. Apart from that he's wrong as the flu vaccine is the most effective way of relieving that pressure and saves tens of thousands of lives every year whilst stopping the NHS from being totally overwhelmed.

Of course Kiero has influenza down as just sniffles as well whilst talking about the tens of thousands of deaths it causes so it's hard to understand what he defines as serious. I mean how many deaths does he want?

[Pat]

To be fair he's right in that influenza puts a massive amount of pressure on the NHS in the winter and there are tens of thousands of deaths. Apart from that he's wrong as the flu vaccine is the most effective way of relieving that pressure and saves tens of thousands of lives every year whilst stopping the NHS from being totally overwhelmed.

More beds wouldn't hurt.

[Garry G]

To be fair he's right in that influenza puts a massive amount of pressure on the NHS in the winter and there are tens of thousands of deaths. Apart from that he's wrong as the flu vaccine is the most effective way of relieving that pressure and saves tens of thousands of lives every year whilst stopping the NHS from being totally overwhelmed.

More beds wouldn't hurt.

Ten years of austerity put paid to that.

The other problem is that the NHS has been incredibly successful over the past 70 years. The end product of that success is an aging population that's more vulnerable to stuff like flu meaning you have to invest more into it.

[Pat]

To be fair he's right in that influenza puts a massive amount of pressure on the NHS in the winter and there are tens of thousands of deaths. Apart from that he's wrong as the flu vaccine is the most effective way of relieving that pressure and saves tens of thousands of lives every year whilst stopping the NHS from being totally overwhelmed.

More beds wouldn't hurt.

Ten years of austerity put paid to that.

The other problem is that the NHS has been incredibly successful over the past 70 years. The end product of that success is an aging population that's more vulnerable to stuff like flu meaning you have to invest more into it.

If it's been so successful, why don't you have enough beds?

[Garry G]

To be fair he's right in that influenza puts a massive amount of pressure on the NHS in the winter and there are tens of thousands of deaths. Apart from that he's wrong as the flu vaccine is the most effective way of relieving that pressure and saves tens of thousands of lives every year whilst stopping the NHS from being totally overwhelmed.

More beds wouldn't hurt.

Ten years of austerity put paid to that.

The other problem is that the NHS has been incredibly successful over the past 70 years. The end product of that success is an aging population that's more vulnerable to stuff like flu meaning you have to invest more into it.

If it's been so successful, why don't you have enough beds?

As I noted the successful outcome is people who are going to get sick again. Also ten years of cuts really doesn't help. The massive drop in our performance in the recent Commonwealth Fund Report is due to the cuts.

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2021/aug/mirror-mirror-2021-reflecting-poorly

[Pat]

To be fair he's right in that influenza puts a massive amount of pressure on the NHS in the winter and there are tens of thousands of deaths. Apart from that he's wrong as the flu vaccine is the most effective way of relieving that pressure and saves tens of thousands of lives every year whilst stopping the NHS from being totally overwhelmed.

More beds wouldn't hurt.

Ten years of austerity put paid to that.

The other problem is that the NHS has been incredibly successful over the past 70 years. The end product of that success is an aging population that's more vulnerable to stuff like flu meaning you have to invest more into it.

If it's been so successful, why don't you have enough beds?

As I noted the successful outcome is people who are going to get sick again. Also ten years of cuts really doesn't help. The massive drop in our performance in the recent Commonwealth Fund Report is due to the cuts.

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2021/aug/mirror-mirror-2021-reflecting-poorly

You must be using a different definition of "success".

[Garry G]

To be fair he's right in that influenza puts a massive amount of pressure on the NHS in the winter and there are tens of thousands of deaths. Apart from that he's wrong as the flu vaccine is the most effective way of relieving that pressure and saves tens of thousands of lives every year whilst stopping the NHS from being totally overwhelmed.

More beds wouldn't hurt.

Ten years of austerity put paid to that.

The other problem is that the NHS has been incredibly successful over the past 70 years. The end product of that success is an aging population that's more vulnerable to stuff like flu meaning you have to invest more into it.

If it's been so successful, why don't you have enough beds?

As I noted the successful outcome is people who are going to get sick again. Also ten years of cuts really doesn't help. The massive drop in our performance in the recent Commonwealth Fund Report is due to the cuts.

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2021/aug/mirror-mirror-2021-reflecting-poorly

You must be using a different definition of "success".

What's yours?

[Kiero]

It's true that coronaviruses have been around forever, and it's also true the Pooh Bear variant wasn't endemic anywhere until late 2019. You're being precise and careful with your wording, Kiero is being sloppy and jumping around a lot.

SARS-COV-2 is merely a spin on a previous nasty seasonal strain, SARS-COV-1 (from 2003). Not novel. Which is why people who'd recovered from SARS had immunity.

[Kiero]

Ten years of austerity put paid to that.

The other problem is that the NHS has been incredibly successful over the past 70 years. The end product of that success is an aging population that's more vulnerable to stuff like flu meaning you have to invest more into it.

Usual public sector-serving line. The only thing the NHS has been "successful" at is employing as many people as possible. 1.4 million at last count, but only 550,000 of them delivering actual primary care.

Such a wonderful system literally no other country on the planet copied our model.

[Garry G]

Ten years of austerity put paid to that.

The other problem is that the NHS has been incredibly successful over the past 70 years. The end product of that success is an aging population that's more vulnerable to stuff like flu meaning you have to invest more into it.

Usual public sector-serving line. The only thing the NHS has been "successful" at is employing as many people as possible. 1.4 million at last count, but only 550,000 of them delivering actual primary care.

Such a wonderful system literally no other country on the planet copied our model.

You've really gone off the deep end haven't you? Did you look at the Commonwealth Fund Report? I was aghast at it because of our drop from the 2017 one but it's still pretty successful. You just seem to be havering the same shite repeatedly.

How you doing on laying out the conspiracy BTW? I noticed you've not explained it yet but I understand it's hard with all the post it notes and bits of string. I'm sure you're about ready to explain it.

[Mistwell]

I've spent over a decade in healthcare, and I can tell you that we never had the types of hospitalizations and deaths from "sniffles" that we've seen in the last 18 months. You are totally full of shit.

Funny, because our healthcare system is "overwhelmed" by winter respiratory viruses every single year.

Course we didn't have a reckless policy of trying to jab our way out of it in any previous years. Or 18 months of deliberately suppressing people's immune systems by keeping them away from other people. Along with encouraging them to spend more time stuck indoors sitting on their arses.

You didn't have annual flu vaccines?

And where is your evidence that your system is overwhelme every single year. Show what you have for the last 10 years.

To be fair he's right in that influenza puts a massive amount of pressure on the NHS in the winter and there are tens of thousands of deaths. Apart from that he's wrong as the flu vaccine is the most effective way of relieving that pressure and saves tens of thousands of lives every year whilst stopping the NHS from being totally overwhelmed.

Of course Kiero has influenza down as just sniffles as well whilst talking about the tens of thousands of deaths it causes so it's hard to understand what he defines as serious. I mean how many deaths does he want?

Kiero appears to think just overweight people, old people, or people with preexisting conditions die from Covid or the Flu. Which in his book is OK in some manner, and all those people should just separate themselves from society for the rest of their lives or until they change those conditions, I assume because he categorizes them as sinners in some way.

It's, of course, an fucking completely insane world view. Even if it were accurate that's the only people who die, the idea that that's an acceptable result to his view of the world makes him a pretty horrible or crazy person.

I find it helps to read Kiero's posts in the voice of Vernon Dursley.

[Pat]

To be fair he's right in that influenza puts a massive amount of pressure on the NHS in the winter and there are tens of thousands of deaths. Apart from that he's wrong as the flu vaccine is the most effective way of relieving that pressure and saves tens of thousands of lives every year whilst stopping the NHS from being totally overwhelmed.

More beds wouldn't hurt.

Ten years of austerity put paid to that.

The other problem is that the NHS has been incredibly successful over the past 70 years. The end product of that success is an aging population that's more vulnerable to stuff like flu meaning you have to invest more into it.

If it's been so successful, why don't you have enough beds?

As I noted the successful outcome is people who are going to get sick again. Also ten years of cuts really doesn't help. The massive drop in our performance in the recent Commonwealth Fund Report is due to the cuts.

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2021/aug/mirror-mirror-2021-reflecting-poorly

You must be using a different definition of "success".

What's yours?

Starts with a smidgen of extra capacity.

[Garry G]

Around 15% to 20%? That's how it works. I believe I've explained at length about that.

Also success is measured on a number of factors. I refer you back to the link for the Commonwealth Fund.

[Pat]

The US doesn't have capacity problems to anywhere near the same degree.

And I don't believe you've explained it anywhere, in this thread. So you're conceding the argument.

And the Commonwealth Fund makes the fundamental mistake of mostly measuring inputs, not outcomes. You get points if the care you provide is free to the end user, which should be a means to a desired end (say wider health coverage) rather than a measured result. And the outcomes that are measured, like the one with "outcomes" in its name, look at data that isn't uniformly collected across all the countries (thus they're measuring different things), and even more critically, it's looking at absolute numbers rather than relative improvements. The US tends to be pretty fat, which isn't a problem that can be solved by the practice of medicine, so it's unreasonable to say the medical system is a failure because of that. The document even blatantly admits this: "U.S. health outcomes could therefore be improved through actions targeting factors beyond health care." The document is designed to reward the types of healthcare systems the authors decided worked best, before they even looked at the data; rather than a fair analysis of which system worked best, relative to the different conditions. It's propaganda for specific policies, nothing more.