TheRPGSite

The utter irony of the "Go Play" avatar, being used and promoted for a kind of elite groupthink by a bunch of guys who are anything BUT about just "going and playing".  If there was a "go and invent a theory from out your ass, chat incessantly about it for months using words as big and complex as possible, design a pointless and idiotic microgame about it and then occasionally play it" avatar, that might be more truth in advertising.
This sort of thing is nothing but part of the attempt to continue to present Gaming as a kind of "subculture", including the use of symbols now to identify one's self with the "culture", the elite, seperate from normal people.  Its as absurd as having monopoly players being all pretentious about using little race-car or top-hat avatars.
GAMING IS A HOBBY; NOT A CULTURE.

RPGPundit

(august 21, 2006)

...yeah and now that dinky ggreen & white symbol has invaded GenCon.

 I saw that as annoying signage all over one floor of the Hyatt and a few other places.
 Its almost become the peer-pressure gamer version of "You must wear a cause ribbon on your tuxedo at an awards show!!...  or you ain't one of us" deal.


- Ed C.

Paranoid much, Pundit?

Quote from: go-play.orgSome people are already getting it twisted, so here it is:

Play is good. Play is necessary. Play keeps us young. Play keeps us alive. Play leads to new ideas and new ways of looking at the world. Play teaches us about each other and about ourselves. Play makes us human.

This symbol says, "Have play in your life." It does not say "I am ______ and you are not." For that matter, it does not say "I am ______ and so are you if you understand this." No, not even when you fill in the blank with "gamer."

This symbol is not even really an exhortation. It's a yelp of joy. It says, go us. Go team. Go humanity. GO PLAY.

Your talking out of your ass again...

I think it's an excellent idea, the perfect antidote to all the hand-wringing and whining that occurs online. The salesmanship may be cheesy, but the sentiment is sound.

I'm not sold on the symbol, but badges were never really my thing.

Quote from: DrewI think it's an excellent idea, the perfect antidote to all the hand-wringing and whining that occurs online. The salesmanship may be cheesy, but the sentiment is sound.

It is.

Why is telling others necessary?

Seanchai

Quote from: TempleParanoid much, Pundit?



Your talking out of your ass again...

The fact that you're posting the "go play" things official pretentious and patronizing propaganda doesn't diminish in any way any of what I wrote.  Who gives a fuck what they say they're doing (except maybe to mock just how absolutely patronizing that post was) when what's really important is what they actually DID with the symbol and the behaviours of the people who wore it.

It was yet another attempt to create a "Gamer Subculture" and largely irrelevant to whether the person wearing it was actually doing any roleplaying or not.

RPGPundit

Quote from: SeanchaiIt is.

Why is telling others necessary?

Seanchai

Don't you know, Seanchai? Its so that you can identify each other, show off the fact that you claim to care very very much, and consider yourself part of a special group!

RPGPundit

The delicious irony is that a good solid chunk of these guys don't actually game outside of cons, and specially arranged forgie-only things. The real message of the forgies is to self segregate yourself and not play.

Quote from: SeanchaiIt is.

Why is telling others necessary?

Seanchai

I don't think any part of it is "necessary."

It just seems like a harmless way of people identifying their commitment to actual play. What really boggles the mind is other people feeling threatened by this.

Quote from: DrewI don't think any part of it is "necessary."

It just seems like a harmless way of people identifying their commitment to actual play. What really boggles the mind is other people feel threatened by this.

Said by many different groups over the past 15 years:

Quote...or showing their commitment to__________ What really boggles the mind is other people feel threatened by this.

Fill in that blank space up there with : AIDS Awareness, Breast cancer, the homeless, bring the troops home, support of the troops /or war, support the environmemnt, Gun owner's rights, hug a pagan, ....etc...etc...


I don't care what is originally supposed to mean - what it has become is the gamert version of Wear this/use this symbol to prove you have "proper think" going on in your head.

 Want to prove your commitment to actual play ?

 Then just PLAY a game.
...and encourage others to play without using the silly symbol.


- Ed C.

Quote from: DrewI don't think any part of it is "necessary."

It just seems like a harmless way of people identifying their commitment to actual play. What really boggles the mind is other people feeling threatened by this.

I don't know.  I always thought it was a little tiny bit of a good idea mixed up in a lot of silliness.  Threatened?  I never felt threatened.

I mean, at least they weren't calling D&D badwrongfun. The worst that could be said, if you chose to interpret it as such, is the implication that people aren't or weren't playing - which was so ludicrous on its face as to not be of consideration for me.

BTW - I just noticed how my second sentence describes just about all of GNS and TBM for me. :haw:

Quote from: KoltarSaid by many different groups over the past 15 years:


Fill in that blank space up there with : AIDS Awareness, Breast cancer, the homeless, bring the troops home, support of the troops /or war, support the environmemnt, Gun owner's rights, hug a pagan, ....etc...etc...


I don't care what is originally supposed to mean - what it has become is the gamert version of Wear this/use this symbol to prove you have "proper think" going on in your head.

 Want to prove your commitment to actual play ?

 Then just PLAY a game.
...and encourage others to play without using the silly symbol.

Some people feel the need to proclaim their intent, to feel the familiarity of recognition with others who do the same. It's not something I participate in myself, but nor do I see anything wrong with it. What I do find puzzling is that others want to rag on them for doing so.

Actually, I don't find it puzzling at all. I've got some pretty good ideas why people enjoy attributing motives to self-identified interest groups.

And yes, affirmitive activity is worth 100 times it's weight in sloganeering, but all we're really seeing here is people professing a joy for gaming in terms of actual play. For Christ's sake, it's not battling world poverty or anything. Let them have their fun.

Quote from: James J SkachI don't know.  I always thought it was a little tiny bit of a good idea mixed up in a lot of silliness.  Threatened?  I never felt threatened.

I mean, at least they weren't calling D&D badwrongfun. The worst that could be said, if you chose to interpret it as such, is the implication that people aren't or weren't playing - which was so ludicrous on its face as to not be of consideration for me.

I think it grew out of the realisation that many gamers were spending more time talking online about gaming than actually going out and doing it. And I can esily understand the phenomenon-- banging on for hours about why game X doesn't work or how game Y will spell certain doom for the hobby scratches a lot of peoples itches. Gaming is primarily a social hobby, and the internet facilitates a type socialisation that can dilute the desire for face-to-face contact around the table.

And I agree that there's a lot of silliness wrapped around the actual play "movement." That doesn't mean it's an inherently flawed concept or anything.

Quote from: RPGPunditDon't you know, Seanchai? Its so that you can identify each other, show off the fact that you claim to care very very much, and consider yourself part of a special group!

RPGPundit

Isn't this exactly what you do Pundy?  Identify the badwrongfun players, rant about saving the hobby, and talk about most of the people on this board as a enlightened group.  You don't have a symbol but you do have some of your own special key words.  

I really dont understand the difference, besides you think that 'go play' is 'bad for the hobby' which is a value statement, so  is useless to differentiate the two.

I like the "Go Play" thing.  I like the symbol and I like the sentiment.  I find it refreshing.

We are special, Pundit.  We're gamers.

special in an olympian sense.

Quote from: joewolzI like the "Go Play" thing.  I like the symbol and I like the sentiment.  I find it refreshing.

We are special, Pundit.  We're gamers.

You did not just say we're special..did you?

Why?  Why are we any more or less special than the guy who watches football and follows a fantasy league or three?  Why are we any more special than a guy in his basement who spends 300 hours to build a Chesepeake Roll-Top Armoire or some such?

We're just a bunch of people with a rather insignificant hobby.  Hell, at least the guy in the basement has a nice piece of cabinetry when he's done.

No matter how many articles there are in Wood or American Woodworker or Fine Woodworking on how to cut a dovetail or glue cross grains together, they don't have a little badge that says "Push Start" to remind them all to get in their basements and make projects.  Why should gamers need the equivalent?

Quote from: James J SkachYou did not just say we're special..did you?

Why?  Why are we any more or less special than the guy who watches football and follows a fantasy league or three?  Why are we any more special than a guy in his basement who spends 300 hours to build a Chesepeake Roll-Top Armoire or some such?

We're just a bunch of people with a rather insignificant hobby.  Hell, at least the guy in the basement has a nice piece of cabinetry when he's done.

No matter how many articles there are in Wood or American Woodworker or Fine Woodworking on how to cut a dovetail or glue cross grains together, they don't have a little badge that says "Push Start" to remind them all to get in their basements and make projects.  Why should gamers need the equivalent?

I am in complete agreement. Well said.

Quote from: James J SkachNo matter how many articles there are in Wood or American Woodworker or Fine Woodworking on how to cut a dovetail or glue cross grains together, they don't have a little badge that says "Push Start" to remind them all to get in their basements and make projects.  Why should gamers need the equivalent?

Again, it's not a question of "necessity" or "need."

It's people doing something they like, in a harmless way. Proclaiming common cause with fellow gamers to kickstart actual play is one of the least offensive interest groups I can think of.

Seriously, can someone please explain why they have a problem with this? I won't offer a rebuttal or anything, I'm genuine curious.

The problem is its just another variation on Peer pressure/group-think shit.

 This has bothered me for maybe a year - but never seen a way to talk about it till now.

 Again - its like those dumb ribbons some people wear or put on their cars and jackets.  (red ribbon/AIDS...yellow ribbon/Troops - it doesn't matter. Its the same crap)

 After awhile its a way of saying "Ooh look I belong and you don't." OR "I GET the message and you don't...ain't I cool?"

 What makes it worse is that rpg.net seems to popularize it  - yet they're the same bunch who kick oput Kyle Aaron/Jim Bob for saying basically the same thing.

Its group think shit times 10.

- Ed C.

Well, for me it's the hypocrisy of the most anti-play guys around trying to promote this.

Quote from: KoltarThe problem is its just another variation on Peer pressure/group-think shit.

 This has bothered me for maybe a year - but never seen a way to talk about it till now.

 Again - its like those dumb ribbons some people wear or put on their cars and jackets.  (red ribbon/AIDS...yellow ribbon/Troops - it doesn't matter. Its the same crap)

 After awhile its a way of saying "Ooh look I belong and you don't." OR "I GET the message and you don't...ain't I cool?"

 What makes it worse is that rpg.net seems to popularize it  - yet they're the same bunch who kick oput Kyle Aaron/Jim Bob for saying basically the same thing.

Its group think shit times 10.

Fair enough. If that's how you feel then that's how you feel. Personally I think it's an essential component of human nature to tend towards group-think, and I can see how something like this would be worrisome for some people.

Thanks for the response. :)

Quote from: Abyssal MawWell, for me it's the hypocrisy of the most anti-play guys around trying to promote this.

 Thats what I was trying to say !! - but you said it better.


- Ed C.

Quote from: Abyssal MawWell, for me it's the hypocrisy of the most anti-play guys around trying to promote this.

Could you expand on this a little?

I know very little about the individuals who make up Go Play, and would be interested in hearing more.

Quote from: KoltarThe problem is its just another variation on Peer pressure/group-think shit.

 This has bothered me for maybe a year - but never seen a way to talk about it till now.

 Again - its like those dumb ribbons some people wear or put on their cars and jackets.  (red ribbon/AIDS...yellow ribbon/Troops - it doesn't matter. Its the same crap)

 After awhile its a way of saying "Ooh look I belong and you don't." OR "I GET the message and you don't...ain't I cool?"

 What makes it worse is that rpg.net seems to popularize it  - yet they're the same bunch who kick oput Kyle Aaron/Jim Bob for saying basically the same thing.

Its group think shit times 10.

- Ed C.

Are you really that worried about seeming uncool?

Quote from: chucklesAre you really that worried about seeming uncool?

 I'm not worried about it one way or the other.

 I was giving an example of what those guys seem to want everyone else to think of their triangle.

Quote from: KoltarI'm not worried about it one way or the other.

 I was giving an example of what those guys seem to want everyone else to think of their triangle.

So then why are you against it?

Quote from: chucklesAre you really that worried about seeming uncool?

He's a professional Klingon impersonator and a game store clerk.  I think that ship sailed long, long ago.

Quote from: KoltarThe problem is its just another variation on Peer pressure/group-think shit.

 This has bothered me for maybe a year - but never seen a way to talk about it till now.

 Again - its like those dumb ribbons some people wear or put on their cars and jackets.  (red ribbon/AIDS...yellow ribbon/Troops - it doesn't matter. Its the same crap)

 After awhile its a way of saying "Ooh look I belong and you don't." OR "I GET the message and you don't...ain't I cool?"

 What makes it worse is that rpg.net seems to popularize it  - yet they're the same bunch who kick oput Kyle Aaron/Jim Bob for saying basically the same thing.

Its group think shit times 10.

- Ed C.

So, at what point do I post the link to the thread where you droned on about the political lapel pins you DO like to wear? :rolleyes:

Personally, I quite like it - I remember the initial discussions about it, the idea that using the 'play' symbol also included electronic games and that it was a counter-point to a lot of navel-gazing and over-emphasising discussion of games rather than just playing and enjoying them for what they are. I wouldn't wear a badge myself, but whatever floats other people's boats.

Obviously the insidious nature of this plot completely passed me by, although if we're going to start talking about hypocrisy I think pundit's posts on the matter are full of it.

Of course, the irony here isn't lost is it?

Hey, a good second place to "go play" is "go talk about playing when you can't" Rather than "Go to Pundits forum and talk shit." Seems a few newer members do that and only that. I'm sure that some of you peeps have more constructive things to discuss here than the ramblings of the pundit?

Good, thought so.

Quote from: One Horse TownOf course, the irony here isn't lost is it?

Hey, a good second place to "go play" is "go talk about playing when you can't" Rather than "Go to Pundits forum and talk shit." Seems a few newer members do that and only that. I'm sure that some of you peeps have more constructive things to discuss here than the ramblings of the pundit?

Good, thought so.

Hey, you talkin' to me? :D The though had occurred to me after posting and I wandered over to roleplaying to see if there were any non-D&D threads. As a matter of fact I've just posted in response to one of your threads on guest players. There's little traffic in forums other than role-playing and this forum though, people will go where the most recent discussion is. I shall post some more in electronic/other games though.

Quote from: Joshua FordHey, you talkin' to me? :D The though had occurred to me after posting and I wandered over to roleplaying to see if there were any non-D&D threads. As a matter of fact I've just posted in response to one of your threads on guest players. There's little traffic in forums other than role-playing and this forum though, people will go where the most recent discussion is. I shall post some more in electronic/other games though.

Only in part. I guess i've posted a dozen times here myself. I'm just wary of seeing new posters post almost excusively here, i guess. Says that they are here just to have a pop at pundit and not to contribute to the site. Which is a shame. The more posters we get, the more differing viewpoints and interesting stories we get exposed to etc. :)

Quote from: One Horse TownOnly in part. I guess i've posted a dozen times here myself. I'm just wary of seeing new posters post almost excusively here, i guess. Says that they are here just to have a pop at pundit and not to contribute to the site. Which is a shame. The more posters we get, the more differing viewpoints and interesting stories we get exposed to etc. :)

I'll normally just read threads to be honest, most pundit threads are entertaining rather than blood-pressure threatening, although he loves the attention regardless. It does feel as though this is forum is a way of pulling people into the site and some of them will stick and post elsewhere.

I haven't played any D&D more recent than 2E though so whilst I'll read the 4E threads with some interest, I don't feel I have a great deal to contribute at the moment. I guess I'm looking to read something to inspire me into more rpging this winter. Doesn't have to be D&D, I'm thinking of getting Shatterzone out of the loft actually.

As for the Pundit himself, JamesV summed it up for me:

'Yup, his schtick is as much a work as anything you'd see on the WWE. One difference is that it's mildly educational as his posts, as crazed as they may sometimes seem, have ways of making you look at a subject and helping you discover your own opinions. I can very much say that I do think that some RPG Swine do exist, but there is definitely no War going on because of his own punditry on these subjects.

Love im or hate im, his nuttiness can ironically help put your own thoughts into perspecive.'

I just get particularly irked occasionally, ironically, not so much with Pundit himself, more so the toadying.

Quote from: J ArcaneHe's a professional Klingon impersonator and a game store clerk.  I think that ship sailed long, long ago.

:haw: :haw: :haw:
I'm glad I wasn't eating when i read this.

Quote from: James J SkachYou did not just say we're special..did you?

Why?  Why are we any more or less special than the guy who watches football and follows a fantasy league or three?  Why are we any more special than a guy in his basement who spends 300 hours to build a Chesepeake Roll-Top Armoire or some such?

We're just a bunch of people with a rather insignificant hobby.  Hell, at least the guy in the basement has a nice piece of cabinetry when he's done.

No matter how many articles there are in Wood or American Woodworker or Fine Woodworking on how to cut a dovetail or glue cross grains together, they don't have a little badge that says "Push Start" to remind them all to get in their basements and make projects.  Why should gamers need the equivalent?

Great post.  I think it's also worth adding -- why can't the guy watching football, or who's into woodworking also like playing tabletop RPGs once in a while?  (I like woodworking. :))

I'm not really into the "I'm a Gamer -- it defines me" school of thought.  If I feel like wearing something that lets people know I'm a D&D nerd I'll get some dorky D&D t-shirt  (http://www.jinx.com/men/shirts/pen_paper_games/dice_choose_weapon.html) and wear that around instead.

Now that I think of it... I don't much like the idea of homogenous nerd culture where if you like one nerd thing (say D&D) you'll automatically be into Anime, Firefly, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Cosplay, blah blah blah. :)

Quote from: DrewIt just seems like a harmless way of people identifying their commitment to actual play. What really boggles the mind is other people feeling threatened by this.

It is definitely harmless. Thus, I don't feel threatened.

However, I think there's a disconnect. If what you're doing is for your benefit, why tell us? Unless we're in the group you're going to be playing with, what difference does it make to us what you're committed to?

The answer is, if I understand what you're saying correctly, fraternity. That's fine. But that means having a "Go Play" icon really is, in part, about making a statement to the world at large.

Seanchai

Quote from: StuartGreat post.  I think it's also worth adding -- why can't the guy watching football, or who's into woodworking also like playing tabletop RPGs once in a while?  (I like woodworking. :))

I'm not really into the "I'm a Gamer -- it defines me" school of thought.  If I feel like wearing something that lets people know I'm a D&D nerd I'll get some dorky D&D t-shirt  (http://www.jinx.com/men/shirts/pen_paper_games/dice_choose_weapon.html) and wear that around instead.

Now that I think of it... I don't much like the idea of homogenous nerd culture where if you like one nerd thing (say D&D) you'll automatically be into Anime, Firefly, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Cosplay, blah blah blah. :)

Although maybe seeing someone coming out of a changing room with a Go Play badge or your woodworker with a keyring would make people reconsider pigeon-holing people. Maybe, maybe not, although I saw its use more on forums, when you're getting particularly heated - it's a reminder, don't spend half an hour composing a big response to a thread, write a scenario instead. Read a book to inspire you.

I'm with you entirely on the homogenous nerd culture though. I game, I play sport, I dance, I watch a wide variety of films and read an equally varied assortment of books. Sport occupies the majority of my leisure time outside my job and I'm well aware that any hobby has its fair share of people who feel that their interest defines them as a person, just as for a good number it's their sexuality, political or religious beliefs or in some cases even medical conditions.

Well, I'm special.  Jesus loves me.  Fuck you all then.  :mad:

I saw Jesus out with another guy last night.

Well, they say he loves everyone.

I'll bet he does!

I know he does!  He's got great abs.

Quote from: joewolzI know he does!  He's got great abs.

 Great abs?
 Yep - especially in his gig in this video :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zFbc5MzAxk

 Though, I think Joan of Arc is more my style - she wears her armor well.


- Ed C.

Yeah, what about those scuba-diver freaks?  Bunch of weirdos with their stupid little red flag with the one white stripe that they have to put on their cars in order to feel that they are part of some special, superior group.  How about those sports fans?  With their shirts and caps with logos of their favorite teams.  Why do they feel the need to separate themselves out from the rest of society?

You fucking guys.

Some of you really need to...

Go Play.

:haw:

[Couldn't resist.]

Quote from: walkerpYeah, what about those scuba-diver freaks?  Bunch of weirdos with their stupid little red flag with the one white stripe that they have to put on their cars in order to feel that they are part of some special, superior group.  How about those sports fans?  With their shirts and caps with logos of their favorite teams.  Why do they feel the need to separate themselves out from the rest of society?

You fucking guys.

Some of you really need to...

Go Play.

:haw:

[Couldn't resist.]

Showing your putrid little face around here again, fuckwad?

Those people might actually be good to know of in an emergency:
"Oh my god, that car just went into that lake!"
"Look, that guy is a diver! I bet he can help!"

I can't think of an emergency for Go Play.
"My design focusing on narrative control is not producing story the way I planned!"
"Don't worry - there's a guy with a Go Play sticker! I bet he knows just the right GM-less non-d20 mechanic to use!"

In all seriousness, that litte red sticker is just as stupid, as are the jeep drivers who wave to each other. Their idiocy is a counter proof to your argument.

Quote from: James J SkachIn all seriousness, that litte red sticker is just as stupid, as are the jeep drivers who wave to each other. Their idiocy is a counter proof to your argument.

WTF is the problem here?  

So your complaint is that if people have some symbol indicating their hobbies or interests, then that could potentially become a demand such that those who don't have the symbol are excluded or put down.  That seems to be the gist of it.  

It seems like basic crap.  If you've got a problem with some people's attitudes, then complain about their attitude, not about the clothes they wear or whatever.  Sure, there are some sports fans who are jerks -- but that doesn't indicate a fundamental problem with wearing a team's logo on your t-shirt or hat.

I just think it is distasteful.

EDIT: As in having a bad taste. As in having no aesthetic education. As in lacking  refined manners. Not as in disgusting.

Quote from: SettembriniI just think it is distasteful.

EDIT: As in having a bad taste. As in having no aesthetic education. As in lacking  refined manners. Not as in disgusting.

What is distasteful about it?  And really, a 'go play' symbol is a gamers sign of bad taste, ... really?

Quote from: James J SkachIn all seriousness, that litte red sticker is just as stupid, as are the jeep drivers who wave to each other. Their idiocy is a counter proof to your argument.

Personally, I don't feel the need to openly display my hobbies or political allegiances (I have a psychotic aversion to bumper stickers, in fact), but I do think that it *may* serve some useful purpose as a social clue for others who may also enjoy the hobby.  For example, someone who is a gamer who meets you may infer that you are also a gamer from these displays and strike up a gaming conversation as a result.  Who knows, perhaps you get a new player out of the interaction.

Wearing distinctive clothing or symbols to mark yourself out as a member of a subculture (sports fan, jeep lover, gamer, Star Trek fan...whatever floats your boat) is simply a matter of identity.  It can be both good (in that it facilitates recognition between people who share the same interest) and bad (by encouraging a very clannish attitude).

As I said, I wouldn't wear such markers as a matter of course, but I don't think that it is all bad.


TGA

I'm married, but what if she wises up and skips town? i might need to find another one. No go play sticker for me, thanks.

Quote from: AosI'm married, but what if she wises up and skips town? i might need to find another one. No go play sticker for me, thanks.

Are you dissin' our gamer sisters?  :haw:


TGA

Gamer girls are like girls that snowboard or rock climb- there is one for every ten guys, and she already has a man, and three or four more lined up if he goes worng on her. I've always found it easier to draw from the general population.

Quote from: AosGamer girls are like girls that snowboard or rock climb- there is one for every ten guys, and she already has a man, and three or four more lined up if he goes worng on her. I've always found it easier to draw from the general population.

Fair enough! :D


TGA

Quote from: The Good AssyrianWearing distinctive clothing or symbols to mark yourself out as a member of a subculture (sports fan, jeep lover, gamer, Star Trek fan...whatever floats your boat) is simply a matter of identity.  It can be both good (in that it facilitates recognition between people who share the same interest) and bad (by encouraging a very clannish attitude).

My sentiments exactly, although I don't mind identifying as anything.

Quote from: SettembriniI just think it is distasteful.

EDIT: As in having a bad taste. As in having no aesthetic education. As in lacking  refined manners. Not as in disgusting.

I have a fine aesthetic education in that I am perfectly capable of dressing up and getting along in a suit, for example.  However, most of the time I choose not to and I'll dress in jeans and a t-shirt.  As the saying goes, tastes differ and I accept that yours are different.  However, bad taste like mine comes from knowing dislike what some people pass of as refinement, not from lack of education about it.

Quote from: jhkimI have a fine aesthetic education in that I am perfectly capable of dressing up and getting along in a suit, for example.

This statement is distasteful, too.

I believe Settembrini is referring to that lack of subtlety which must needs accompany any overly ostentatious profession of enjoying what one, after all, happens to be enjoying already; in face of which any further affirmation beyond the factual would risk traversing into the realm of the redundant or indeed the tautological, aka "duh."

Like putting a "Go BMW" sticker on your, well, BMW.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityLike putting a "Go BMW" sticker on your, well, BMW.

More accurately: putting a 'My other car is a BMW' sticker on your, well, BMW...

My other car is a Pokeball....

Quote from: SpikeMore accurately: putting a 'My other car is a BMW' sticker on your, well, BMW...

My other car is a Pokeball....

Your other HOUSE is a pokeball! :P

-clash

Quote from: flyingmiceYour other HOUSE is a pokeball! :P

-clash

No no no... the pokeball is so people with, you know, legs... carry me everywhere I want to go.  That's transportation, buddy.

Quote from: SpikeNo no no... the pokeball is so people with, you know, legs... carry me everywhere I want to go.  That's transportation, buddy.

So it's more like your other RV, then? :D

-clash

And another thing...

Take all of those examples tossed about here - a red sticker for divers, or jeep drivers waving (I brought it up cause I saw one do it the other day).  Fine, they are identifying with each other.  They are saying to the rest of the world "I [insert identity marker here]."  I think, for the most part, it's silly, but it's relatively harmless and doens't bother me much.

I'll cop to my anger being partially driven by the source of the comment "you fucking guys."

But:

What's with "Go Play"  Do you see the difference? In this identity marker, there's a command. And it's one that assumes, if I understand the source correctly, that the bearer is saying to the reader "Talk less about gaming and go game."  Correct?

Well, quite honestly, who the fuck are you? Where do you get off telling me to go game? Why do you assume I can't do both?  Why must I game instead of talking? How do you know I'm not, at this very minute, on my way to a game?

See, an identity marker, in and of itself, says nothing more than "I'm a Diver," or "Hey, we both have Harley's - good choice." They don't say "Go Dive."  If they do, well then my natural inclination is to say "Uhhh...and you are...?"

Again, there's nothing threatening or harmful about it. But it has this, to me, weird undertone that makes it...hinky. If a friend/family memeber insisted on bearing it, I would not hold back in telling them what I thought - but I certainly would say they couldn't wear it.

James, seriously?  This thing is the equivalent of those gofoy bumper stickers you see that say "I'd rather be hunting."

Why the hate folks?

Quote from: joewolzJames, seriously?  This thing is the equivalent of those gofoy bumper stickers you see that say "I'd rather be hunting."

Why the hate folks?

Well... I for one have an irrational hatred of bumper stickers, to the point where I often find the only solution is to ritually disembowel and consume the offending car driver.

I find this to be disturbingly similar...


;)

Quote from: joewolzJames, seriously?  This thing is the equivalent of those gofoy bumper stickers you see that say "I'd rather be hunting."

Why the hate folks?

No..actually it would be the same as a bumper sticker that said "Go Hunt."

It would have been a much better choice for a moniker if they chose to use "I'd rather be Gaming." See the difference?  It's tricky, because the command form of "You" in "Go Play" is implied and all that.

I mean hell, why not just "I Play"?

The "Go Play" nonsense is shite because at it's heart, it's nothing more than JimBob's "bitter non-gamer" rhetoric tarted up with fancy logos and branded as a movement.

Quote from: J ArcaneThe "Go Play" nonsense is shite because at it's heart, it's nothing more than JimBob's "bitter non-gamer" rhetoric tarted up with fancy logos and branded as a movement.

How do you know that?

Quote from: James J SkachNo..actually it would be the same as a bumper sticker that said "Go Hunt."

It would have been a much better choice for a moniker if they chose to use "I'd rather be Gaming." See the difference?  It's tricky, because the command form of "You" in "Go Play" is implied and all that.

I mean hell, why not just "I Play"?

This is exactly why I feel the thing to be irritating too, James. I'm a professional writer. Words matter to me. The way things are said implies other things, and I don't know if it's intentional, so I sit quiet, but it still irks me.

-clash.

Quote from: James J SkachWhat's with "Go Play"  Do you see the difference? In this identity marker, there's a command. And it's one that assumes, if I understand the source correctly, that the bearer is saying to the reader "Talk less about gaming and go game."  Correct?

No.  You inserted a "talk less" as a statement -- but I can't see anything to indicate that in the symbol.  I talk a lot about games, but I also play fairly frequently.  There may be an implied slight on people who talk about games without playing regularly, but that's different than saying "talk less".  It would simply be "play in addition to talking".  

In general -- there's no manifesto for the symbol, nor is it associated with any particular website, game system, or style of play.  That's why I'd tolerate it, whereas I'm ambivalent about icons based on things like twenty-sided dice, miniature figures, and so forth.

The original 'what's it all about?' thread:

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=280355

Quote from: James J SkachNo..actually it would be the same as a bumper sticker that said "Go Hunt."

It would have been a much better choice for a moniker if they chose to use "I'd rather be Gaming." See the difference?  It's tricky, because the command form of "You" in "Go Play" is implied and all that.

I mean hell, why not just "I Play"?

This is just a "QFT" post, folks. Nothing to see here. Move along. Move along.

Seanchai

Quote from: jhkimNo.  You inserted a "talk less" as a statement -- but I can't see anything to indicate that in the symbol.  I talk a lot about games, but I also play fairly frequently.  There may be an implied slight on people who talk about games without playing regularly, but that's different than saying "talk less".  It would simply be "play in addition to talking".

See, that's the thing about implying things - you never know what someone's going to actually infer.

Look, fact is, after doing just a bit of research last night, I found some interesting turn-abouts in the entire development. For example, This was posted on the go-play "blog" on August 15th, 2006:

Quote from: Mike SugarbakerIt does not say "I am ______ and you are not." For that matter, it does not say "I am ______ and so are you if you understand this." No, not even when you fill in the blank with "gamer."

But if you go back to it's inception, that's exactly what was meant:

Quote from: Ron DonoghueBut to answer Nathan's question, I see a couple benefits, and the first (and possibly biggest) has nothing to do with communication, and more to do with identification. It's a reason to give The Nod. The Nod is that moment of acknowledgment that members of a readily identifiable subgroup give when they see the symbols of their group. Apple computers are a great example of this: as a Mac user when you see another Mac user there's a little bit of buzz because you both know you're in the same group, and by virtue of being in this select group, you are somehow cooler/smarter/more with it/whatever than people who don't "get it".

Quite the turnaround in just a few days.

So, now I'm faced with you telling me I inserted "talk less."  So I do a little more research, because I know I've seen someone couch it in these terms before.  One of things I find, though, is a post from RPG.net:

Quote from: Andy KMaybe we need a Red "STOP PLAY" one that says "I DON'T PLAY GAMES ANYMORE BUT I LIKE TO ARGUE ABOUT THEM WITH STRANGERS ON THE INTERNET"

Or this one from Andy in the very Story Game thread that spawned this:

Quote from: AndyWILL GET AROUND TO PLAYING EVENTUALLY BUT FIRST WE NEED TO HAMMER OUT OUR SOCIAL CONTRACT AND DISCUSS THEORY

For a t-shirt.  That is available for sale.  Right now. And finally, Andy decides he'll send one to our very own Pundit:

Quote from: AndyI'm going to send one of these shirts gift-wrapped to Nisarg/RPG Pundit.

How do you interpret that?  I mean, if the red stop button is to say I don't play at all and only talk, what does "Go Play" mean?  Is it a stretch to interpret that as "stop talking and play?" If Andy is saying that, why don't I believe that is what he really means, even if there are later posts where he tries to re-brand it? Why send one to Pundit if there's no manifesto (especially amusing since Pundit plays quite regularly if you go by his statements)?

Now I have yet to, admittedly, find the one post that made me put the "talk less" into the equation. But given that the people who came up with idea seem to not even be able to define it explicitly, I'll stand by my interpretation. And that's the problem when you leave something to interpretation, especially when it's got the implied command form of "You" in it. Hell, go look at the RPGnet thread.  Look at the different ways people not only take the meaning, but the different ways people explain the meaning.

In the end, as I've said before, it would have been so much easier to call it the "I Play" symbol, or the "I Game' symbol – and to leave out any hint than it was anything other than a symbol to represent that you are a gamer.

I don't need a green & whote triangle button or avatar 'add-on" to prove or show that I play games.

 I run a campaign, and I work at a game store.


- Ed C.



Oh and my old thread about lapel pins?  That was meant as fluff and fun  - and most people got that idea.

@Jim: Nice digging. You pwned them.

Quote from: Joshua FordThe original 'what's it all about?' thread:

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=280355

By-the-way ,
 If you're using the green & white doo-hickie in your avatar - you realize that declares your bias on this ?

Thats the other thing that bothers me about  - voluntarily putting triangles on themsewlves and not getting why its not quite kosher.


- Ed C.

Quote from: Settembrini@Jim: Nice digging. You pwned them.

It's no more contradictory than any loosely defined online "community."

If someone did similar digging at the RPGsite they could easily 'prove' how contrary, ludicrous and downright insane a given group of people can be.

And that's not me defending Go Play. Nor is it a slam against James J Skach or this site. It's just the way things are on the net, where the signal to noise ratio is always in a state of flux.

This argument is overblown. But hey, it's the internet.

Quote from: James J SkachShowing your putrid little face around here again, fuckwad?

Those people might actually be good to know of in an emergency:
"Oh my god, that car just went into that lake!"
"Look, that guy is a diver! I bet he can help!"

I can't think of an emergency for Go Play.
"My design focusing on narrative control is not producing story the way I planned!"
"Don't worry - there's a guy with a Go Play sticker! I bet he knows just the right GM-less non-d20 mechanic to use!"

In all seriousness, that litte red sticker is just as stupid, as are the jeep drivers who wave to each other. Their idiocy is a counter proof to your argument.

As a jeep owner, a diver, and a roleplayer... fuck you James.  ;)

The diving sticker just represents you're in the diving community.  It has NOTHING to do with emergency response, as most of us are hobby divers.  It's not like most of us carry SCUBA equipment around or train to hold our breath for extreme periods in case of emergency.  Showing signs of interest in the hobby to others that are interested in the hobby.  How is showing signs of interest in something, segregating yourself from others with the same interests?

I'm running 5 campaigns right now, playing 3 nights a week.

I don't need a sticker to do that; people who actually do roleplay don't need a little triangle to remind them of the fact that they occasionally pull out a demo game or a one-shot and can thus still technically think of themselves as gamers instead of just "theorists".

RPGPundit

Do you wear anything that signifies your with the Masons Pundit?

Quote from: GunslingerDo you wear anything that signifies your with the Masons Pundit?

 Well if knows those famous secret handshakes - he doesn't have to ...now does he ?

- Ed C.

Quote from: GunslingerShowing signs of interest in the hobby to others that are interested in the hobby.  How is showing signs of interest in something, segregating yourself from others with the same interests?

I think all the furor is driven by self-loathing.  They'll do anything to prove to themselves that they aren't geeks like the rest of those gamer losers out there who don't hide in shame.

Quote from: walkerpI think all the furor is driven by self-loathing.  They'll do anything to prove to themselves that they aren't geeks like the rest of those gamer losers out there who don't hide in shame.

Know what I talked about at lunch with my co-workers today?

The furor over 4th Edition.

Guess what - none of them are gamers! It came up in passing one day about 3 months after I started working at this place; I mentioned I gamed - almost exclusively D&D.

Just this week one of the guys gave me a shirt with a d20 one it and the line "This is how I roll." He happened to be online shopping and saw it and bought it for me - out of the blue.

So over lunch today - we talked about the various editions.  One of the guys, it turns out, was a huge gamer in high school. He's go boxes of stuff, miniatures and all, stored at his parents house!

I say all this because I'm trying to figure out who is the one with the self loathing? Who is the "they?" I'm guessing this is just another one of your attempts to classify large swaths of people based on your own limited experience and instead proving your head is firmly up your ass.

Quote from: GunslingerDo you wear anything that signifies your with the Masons Pundit?

The difference is that, meaning this in the best possible light and with all frankness, the Freemasons really ARE a "select club", they're a LITERAL club with a real membership.

Gamers are not a "club" they're not "select", they're not even a "subculture", they're just participants in a Nerd Hobby. That's it.

And that's where this whole "Go Play" thing stems from: trying to create a sense of "subculture identity", the idea that wearing a little green triangle patch makes you part of a special group.  Its pretty sad.

RPGPundit

Quote from: walkerpI think all the furor is driven by self-loathing.  They'll do anything to prove to themselves that they aren't geeks like the rest of those gamer losers out there who don't hide in shame.

That's fairly moronic. I'm quite open about being a gamer.  I don't loathe myself, I loathe the mouth-breathing lawncrappers and the pretentious elitist twats that infest the hobby.

RPGPundit

Quote from: James J SkachKnow what I talked about at lunch with my co-workers today?

The furor over 4th Edition.

Guess what - none of them are gamers! It came up in passing one day about 3 months after I started working at this place; I mentioned I gamed - almost exclusively D&D.

Just this week one of the guys gave me a shirt with a d20 one it and the line "This is how I roll." He happened to be online shopping and saw it and bought it for me - out of the blue.

So over lunch today - we talked about the various editions.  One of the guys, it turns out, was a huge gamer in high school. He's go boxes of stuff, miniatures and all, stored at his parents house!

I say all this because I'm trying to figure out who is the one with the self loathing? Who is the "they?" I'm guessing this is just another one of your attempts to classify large swaths of people based on your own limited experience and instead proving your head is firmly up your ass.

Now you have to figure out how to get that guy's stuff.

RPGPundit

Quote from: GunslingerAs a jeep owner, a diver, and a roleplayer... fuck you James.  ;)

The diving sticker just represents you're in the diving community.  It has NOTHING to do with emergency response, as most of us are hobby divers.  It's not like most of us carry SCUBA equipment around or train to hold our breath for extreme periods in case of emergency.  Showing signs of interest in the hobby to others that are interested in the hobby.  How is showing signs of interest in something, segregating yourself from others with the same interests?

I've explained it in the thread.  I'm not one for identity stuff.  I used to own a Jeep and thought it was the strangest thing when other jeep drivers would wave to me.  Fortunately, I had a Grand Cherokee, so it didn't happen as often as geeks with Wranglers ;)

Like I said - if this was only an identification, why the command? And given Andy's statements show there is, at the very least, an understanding that the command exists - and, IMHO, that it specifically means "stop talking abot games and Go Play."

Apparently, I'm not the only one.

It is to me, yet another example of some people either not realizing how offensive they are being (usually to due to being over enthusiastic), or intentionally being offensive but realizing it's showing them to be pricks and trying to back track. I'd probably be using and defending the symbol if it simply said "I Game."

Quote from: RPGPunditNow you have to figure out how to get that guy's stuff.

RPGPundit

Great Minds.

I offered him, off-hand, $100 for whatever he had.  Unfortunately, he's not stupid.

I think he mentioned having a mint condition white box D&D and all the AD&D books in very good condition, as well as some non-D&D stuff that I missed as I was trying to plot how I was going to rob his parents house...

Quote from: RPGPunditThat's fairly moronic. I'm quite open about being a gamer.  I don't loathe myself, I loathe the mouth-breathing lawncrappers and the pretentious elitist twats that infest the hobby.

Cool!  Maybe you guys should get a logo and a phrase (definitely not in the offensive, agenda-laden imperative voice) to identify yourselves as not being part of those "mouth-breathing lawncrappers and the pretentious elitist twats" but rather the normal, well-adjusted people that you are who happen to enjoy gaming as a hobby.  

Oh wait, that would be elitist.

Quote from: RPGPunditThe utter irony of the "Go Play" avatar, being used and promoted for a kind of elite groupthink by a bunch of guys who are anything BUT about just "going and playing".

Quote from: walkerpCool!  Maybe you guys should get a logo and a phrase (definitely not in the offensive, agenda-laden imperative voice) to identify yourselves as not being part of those "mouth-breathing lawncrappers and the pretentious elitist twats" but rather the normal, well-adjusted people that you are who happen to enjoy gaming as a hobby.  

Oh wait, that would be elitist.

Yes, it would be. Normal people just play.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditYes, it would be. Normal people just play.

I don't know if it is elitist - more activist. I find that most activists have a tenuous grip on what it is they are promoting or denouncing.

Quote from: RPGPunditYes, it would be. Normal people just play.

I would suggest, then, that by that definition, that neither of us are normal gamers.

Quote from: pigames.netI don't know if it is elitist - more activist. I find that most activists have a tenuous grip on what it is they are promoting or denouncing.

So would the last hundred or so posts of this thread count as exhibit A against both sides? (http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6995)
:p

Quote from: JamesVSo would the last hundred or so posts of this thread count as exhibit A against both sides? (http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6995)
:p

Probably ;)

Quote from: JamesVSo would the last hundred or so posts of this thread count as exhibit A against both sides? (http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6995)
:p

 Except you were only at post #93 when you posted that .

 Sorry - bookkeeping GM side of me coming out

Quote from: KoltarExcept you were only at post #93 when you posted that .

 Sorry - bookkeeping GM side of me coming out

Clicky the statement good sir and be reminded.  :)

Quote from: JamesVClicky the statement good sir and be reminded.  :)

OOPS !

Its late alright ?
Got back from an RPG session halfway across town after not GM-ing for 45 days . (Damn schedule conflicts!!) My brain is fried , my hand is tired from rolling dice...and my shoulder hurts from looking stuff up and doing dramatic gestures.  - Yeah I had a damn good time.


- Ed C.

Quote from: KoltarOOPS !

Its late alright ?
Got back from an RPG session halfway across town after not GM-ing for 45 days . (Damn schedule conflicts!!) My brain is fried , my hand is tired from rolling dice...and my shoulder hurts from looking stuff up and doing dramatic gestures.  - Yeah I had a damn good time.


- Ed C.

Cool! My game yesterday had to be cancelled. :(

Quote from: KoltarBy-the-way ,
 If you're using the green & white doo-hickie in your avatar - you realize that declares your bias on this ?

Thats the other thing that bothers me about  - voluntarily putting triangles on themsewlves and not getting why its not quite kosher.

- Ed C.

No shit, Sherlock? Bias you, you say? The avatar I decided to put up because of this wank-infested thread? :rolleyes:

If people want to pick a triangle as an avatar, have a green and white sticker, what's it to you, really? Hell, it'll even make it easier for you to identify those who are 'the sort of people I wouldn't want to game with anyway.' I'm sure it'll be a mercy for all concerned.

For me, online it's a reminder that despite the bitching and drama that goes on in forums, we do actually have at least thing in common, we game.

Offline, if some people wearing stickers on their bag or whatever means they end up having gaming conversations or sessions with new people then fair play to them. Who am I to piss on their chips or tell them it's not 'kosher'?

You can take it as elitist, you can take it as an imperative, 'Go, Play' but personally I preferred the Go Play! celebration take on it. Different strokes.