Enjoy.

[Grognard GM]

I don't think this covers the vast majority of social gender-coding, though.

Gender coding isn't a thing. Men and women wearing different clothing is largely due to sexual dimorphism meaning different things look better on male or female bodies. People wear things that will make them look good to others, it's not a conspiracy.

[Ghostmaker]

I don't think this covers the vast majority of social gender-coding, though.

Gender coding isn't a thing. Men and women wearing different clothing is largely due to sexual dimorphism meaning different things look better on male or female bodies. People wear things that will make them look good to others, it's not a conspiracy.

Ah, but that's the best part. The argument they make is that ultimately sexual dimorphism itself does not exist.

Which of course flies in the face of everything from basic biology to fashion, but hey, gotta make sure they get their validation.

[jhkim]

I don't think this covers the vast majority of social gender-coding, though.

Gender coding isn't a thing. Men and women wearing different clothing is largely due to sexual dimorphism meaning different things look better on male or female bodies. People wear things that will make them look good to others, it's not a conspiracy.

I don't think that explains most gender coding, like the difference in boys and girls clothing from pre-teen down to infant. Nor grandmas vs grandpas. Sexual dimorphism could play a role - like in emphasized hips and lower necklines in adult women's clothing -- but those are a small piece of the picture. There are a large number of signals. None are crucial by themselves, but they all add up. Hair styles, earrings, nail polish, speech patterns, and more all have different gender coding.

Moreover, the codes have some similarities but also many differences in different cultures. i.e. The difference between a man's kilt and a woman's skirt in Scotland, or between men's and women's kimonos in Japan. I'm a little surprised at your take given that earlier you were clear that gender presentation were social mores based on living in a community, rather than individual choices to look good.

Also, men and women presenting their sex via hairstyles and clothing is part of living in a community. Being part of a society means conforming to the acceptable mores of that society. We in the West have always had a wider range of acceptable behaviors than most peoples, but the limitations are what maintains social cohesion.

[Brad]

This discussion is hilarious. Since I have direct experience with all this crap, I shall interject some facts. I have a 4 year old boy and a 7 year old girl. I have treated the same since birth, with daily beatings being a part of their lives just to keep them in line. Both are extremely independent to the point of being obnoxious about trivial things, like what sort of chips they want with their lunch or what kind of toothpaste they'll use. They get super irritated being told what to do about ANYTHING. I suppose this is typical behavior from a young child. Since about the age of 1 1/2, the girl has developed her own sense of style and has a wide variety of clothes that she has deemed appropriate to wear. She likes pink of course, sparkly crap, unicorns, all that dumbass shit. Makeup and other nonsense. She likes Barbies and dolls and asked for one of those big ones from Target for her birthday. For Christmas she wanted a Lego set, but it was some sort of animal hospital thing because she wants to be a veterinarian. When she was 2 she wanted to be an elephant, so I guess this is a natural outgrowth of that. Contrast with the boy who has become obsessed with guns and parachuting and the military and wants to be a Marine Recon sniper when he grows up. Or a doctor. Or a cowboy. When he doesn't want to eat his dinner I'll say that's the sort of food a cowboy would eat and then he's good with it. "Do cowboys like this?" is a common question. He also wants to be an astronaut and make boobytraps because that's what Mr. Home Alone did (at least he calls him Kevin finally). He also likes wearing jeans and button down shirts with his cowboy boots because that's what cowboys wear. And sometimes tank tops when we go to the pool or the beach since he'll get "vitamin D".

They are two typical young children who are good examples of the differences between boys and girls, men and women. I have done nothing to enforce any sort of behavior that differentiates them. THEY decided to act like this. And the reason is pretty obvious: they have a pretty normal childhood with two normal parents (well, maybe I am a fucking weirdo, but at least I'm not some fucking weak ass beta male). I have seen NO ONE I associate with in any capacity who has children who are "confused" about their sex. and it's painfully apparent it's because no one here is a fucking mentally ill retard who is making their kids confused. "Oh you like pink? Lemme get those hormone blockers!" The boy plays Barbies with his sister...and you know why? Because they are siblings and he wants to play with her in any way he can, so he decided to play Barbies. Most of the time they just jump on the trampoline together, or go in their playhouse and look at the birds, until the squabbles happen and after that it's a lot of punching, pinching, and yelling at each other. Am I a bad parent because I didn't buy my son a dress because he plays Barbies with his older sister who he idolizes?

Anyone who thinks this tranny stuff is organic needs a lobotomy. It's being forced on kids by their fucked up parents. 100%.

[rytrasmi]

I don't think that explains most gender coding, like the difference in boys and girls clothing from pre-teen down to infant. Nor grandmas vs grandpas. Sexual dimorphism could play a role - like in emphasized hips and lower necklines in adult women's clothing -- but those are a small piece of the picture. There are a large number of signals. None are crucial by themselves, but they all add up. Hair styles, earrings, nail polish, speech patterns, and more all have different gender coding.

jhkim, with all due respect, you're overthinking this. The vast majority of people instinctively conform to their gender. It's people who study this from a distance who invent concepts like "gender coding." Is gender coding real and what does it mean? Who fucking cares, we have eyes and brains and we don't need academic constructs to think or talk about this stuff.

The coyote eats field mice in late autumn because they're plump and satisfying. It is entirely ignorant of its place in the food web. It knows nil about biology and it doesn't even speak English.

"Sexual dimorphism could play a role" - Of course it fucking plays a role! You can identify someone as male or female a mile away with 98% accuracy. Gait, size, shape, posture, you name it. "Emphasized" hips? Have you ever seen a woman? They have goddamn hips for miles and it's awesome.

You need more empathy for the average person, not some gender studies academic.

I'm usually pretty interested to read what you have to say because you offer a thoughtful perspective that is contrary to a lot of other people here. But you are increasingly detached from common sense on this topic. You may not care, so what. Just my opinion, take that for what it's worth.

"Do cowboys like this?" is a common question.

Your kids sound hilarious and fun.

My son once saw a girl with mermaid flippers at the pool and loudly proclaimed "I want to be a man-maid!" It was a hilarious nothing, and we certainly did not rush out to have gender counseling. Twenty years ago everyone would have laughed. Now there's a significant subset of idiots who would act on comments like that.

[GeekyBugle]

I don't think this covers the vast majority of social gender-coding, though.

Gender coding isn't a thing. Men and women wearing different clothing is largely due to sexual dimorphism meaning different things look better on male or female bodies. People wear things that will make them look good to others, it's not a conspiracy.

I don't think that explains most gender coding, like the difference in boys and girls clothing from pre-teen down to infant. Nor grandmas vs grandpas. Sexual dimorphism could play a role - like in emphasized hips and lower necklines in adult women's clothing -- but those are a small piece of the picture. There are a large number of signals. None are crucial by themselves, but they all add up. Hair styles, earrings, nail polish, speech patterns, and more all have different gender coding.

Moreover, the codes have some similarities but also many differences in different cultures. i.e. The difference between a man's kilt and a woman's skirt in Scotland, or between men's and women's kimonos in Japan. I'm a little surprised at your take given that earlier you were clear that gender presentation were social mores based on living in a community, rather than individual choices to look good.

Also, men and women presenting their sex via hairstyles and clothing is part of living in a community. Being part of a society means conforming to the acceptable mores of that society. We in the West have always had a wider range of acceptable behaviors than most peoples, but the limitations are what maintains social cohesion.

Have you EVER met a child? Little girls want to be like their mom and little boys want to be like their dad (latter like some "hero" the child admires).

Now think for a minute and try and explain (without using any conspiracy theory) why is it that children's clothes are like they are.

Old people have been dressing in a certain way all their life, furthermore the instinct to be attractive to the opposite sex is still there.

There's no conspiracy to make 99.99% of the population normal, it's just like it is, was and always will be because it's what increases the chances of passing your genes, it's evolution.

[Ghostmaker]

Anyone who thinks this tranny stuff is organic needs a lobotomy. It's being forced on kids by their fucked up parents. 100%.

Bullshit is organic too. But you're not wrong.

[GeekyBugle]

I wonder why is it that the alarming rate at which the new generations identify as trannies is focused on the west? Especially in "progressive" areas, especially among the "progressives" in those areas? I'm sure all those other cultures are just as beautiful as the western one...

Seriously tho, if the increase was organic you wouldn't find it in clusters around those areas, I mean it's not like someone in a religious community in the USA can't move out of it by traveling a relatively short distance, it's not like they are going to be hunted down by their family for bringing them dishonor and sinning against the religion. Unlike in certain parts of the world.

But you don't see an increase even among the Zapotecs, who have the Muxes. You see it among the educated people in Mexico City tho, I wonder why.

Must be that the Zapotecs are REALLY transphobic or something.

Despite the "progressive's" claims you don't see it among the more primitive cultures either, you ONLY see it in the west in clusters among the more "progressive" people.

But I'm sure it's totally not a social contagion or anything.

[GeekyBugle]

As for the way people dress... Sure, that's cultural, and yet you didn't find thousands of trannies among the Kilt wearing Scots prior to the advent of the woke ideology.

Both men and women used "skirts" different type of them tho, and you find the same among other cultures, in Japan both men and women used to wear kimonos, but they were different.

Even among the cultures Jhkim and his cadre love to cite as examples of having a "third" gender you don't find them in huge amounts prior to the advent of the woke religion.

But I'm sure that the one common thread among all those places where the trannie population is exploding has nothing to do with the increase in people identifying as trannies.

[jhkim]

You need more empathy for the average person, not some gender studies academic.

I'm usually pretty interested to read what you have to say because you offer a thoughtful perspective that is contrary to a lot of other people here. But you are increasingly detached from common sense on this topic. You may not care, so what. Just my opinion, take that for what it's worth.

Thanks, rytrasmi. From my view, I feel like I started this mostly talking about just my personal experience and the people I knew. And then people came at me with terms like "sexual dimorphism" and "social mores" and questioning my experience based on statistics, so I replied in kind about that side of the topic.

But you're right that such is disconnected. Maybe I shouldn't have replied on that topic and just stuck to personal experience.

They are two typical young children who are good examples of the differences between boys and girls, men and women. I have done nothing to enforce any sort of behavior that differentiates them. THEY decided to act like this. And the reason is pretty obvious: they have a pretty normal childhood with two normal parents (well, maybe I am a fucking weirdo, but at least I'm not some fucking weak ass beta male). I have seen NO ONE I associate with in any capacity who has children who are "confused" about their sex. and it's painfully apparent it's because no one here is a fucking mentally ill retard who is making their kids confused.

Brad, your kids sounds like fun. They sound like typical kids, much like most kids I know. But even with the same parenting, kids can turn out quite differently.

A lot of the transgender people I know grew up in conservative households. My co-owner Marie is around my age (early 50s) and grew up in small-town east Texas. She was more into geeky boy things like computers and rockets instead of cowboys growing up, but she never did anything girly or was encouraged to such. My former co-GM Emma grew up in a conservative, religious Baptist household and grew up going to Sunday school, but she is now quite anti-Christian. On the other hand, my church friend V retains the Christian faith that she grew up with, but now goes to a more liberal church. I don't know much about her childhood, but she is in her mid-sixties and grew up in a Christian household in the Midwest - I don't imagine it was transgender-friendly.


A lot of kids turn out typical -- largely by definition. But some kids aren't typical. That's always been true. A lot of girls are into lace and princesses from an early age. But some girls are tomboys and aren't into that stuff. That doesn't mean they're transgender, but it also doesn't mean that the parents did something wrong. It's fine for girls to be tomboys. Likewise, some kids turn out gay, and there's nothing wrong with that. And a very few kids turn out transgender.

I've seen some hand-wringing of parents over how their kids turn out different than typical in various ways. And it's good to be thoughtful parents, but some kids just turn out different. I know a liberal couple in my church whose son is conservative, into pickup trucks and guns, and recently joined the military. They still love him and support him. I remember his bridging ceremony from our church a few years ago. On the other hand, my cousin's kid J went into the Air Force, but he came out as gay during that time, and now he runs a wine bar in Arizona with his husband.

My own son was always nerdy and loved books and animals. He's also into hip-hop dance. I think I certainly had an influence on him. He's into fantasy and RPGs, which certainly came from me. But he also has many differences. I was always into math. He's into literature, and he just finished his first year of grad school to become a librarian. I don't know how much was his genetics vs his upbringing vs his culture. But I also think he's a great kid and have no regrets about raising him.

[Eirikrautha]

You need more empathy for the average person, not some gender studies academic.

I'm usually pretty interested to read what you have to say because you offer a thoughtful perspective that is contrary to a lot of other people here. But you are increasingly detached from common sense on this topic. You may not care, so what. Just my opinion, take that for what it's worth.

Thanks, rytrasmi. From my view, I feel like I started this mostly talking about just my personal experience and the people I knew. And then people came at me with terms like "sexual dimorphism" and "social mores" and questioning my experience based on statistics, so I replied in kind about that side of the topic.

But you're right that such is disconnected. Maybe I shouldn't have replied on that topic and just stuck to personal experience.

No.  Your personal experience is irrelevant.  It is localized, biased, and the worst possible basis to make any kind of collective or societal decisions from.  If Newton had based his theories of gravity on his "experiences" with a feather, then he'd never had discovered anything useful.  The biggest problem with the left today is that they think their "lived experience" trumps reality.  It doesn't, and your personal experiences are worthless as a basis for decision-making, especially in terms of society-wide evaluations.

[Kyle Aaron]

I have seen NO ONE I associate with in any capacity who has children who are "confused" about their sex. and it's painfully apparent it's because no one here is a fucking mentally ill retard who is making their kids confused.

I've seen one, at my kids' school. From ages 8-10 she experienced: her parents divorcing, her grandfather (who lived 100m from her home, on the way to school) dying, and two years of every single school term being interrupted by lockdowns and "remote learning" (our state had the most lockdowns, and the most deaths). She also got chubby because each parent tried to be the Disney parent, she spent more time with her obese grandmother who fed her up, and of course many kids around 10-12yo chub up just before they spring up into puberty from 12-14yo. So she was the fattest girl in her class, and the first girl in her class to show signs of puberty.

Put all the normal stresses of entering puberty and being overwhelmed by hormones and feeling self-conscious, and entering into it first in your class, and add to them family stresses, interrupted schooling, and general society's anxiety from lockdowns, and you get a kid who proclaims that she has no gender and doesn't want to be called her gender-specific name, but a generic name of her choice. Her family seem to be going with that - I strongly suspect it'll all drop off when one summer she springs up three inches in height and she grows up a bit mentally. It takes any kid a while to get over parents splitting and grandparents dying, and it's taking everyone a while to get over the lockdowns and pandemic.

I don't think I'm reaching a lot to suggest that adolescents being uncomfortable with and self-conscious about their physical changes is a new phenomenon in human history. I think there's a reason we used to have rites of passage, where the adults of the same gender took the kid out into the bush and made them do uncomfortable things and told them stories and the old times and the gods and so on. These societies realised that the transition from child to adult isn't something that happens by itself without guidance. Some religions still have this, which is overall probably good.

So that's one - out of 380 or so kids at the school. Apart from that, the closest I've seen is a kid's dad at the school who wrote a children's book about a transgender teddy bear. His children weren't transgender, though.

I'm sure there'll be more at high school. Obviously gender identity is more of an issue when you have more visible signs of biological sex, like a hairy face or breasts. Likewise sexuality isn't really an issue for kids, but becomes one once they're horny adolescents.

[Grognard GM]

No.  Your personal experience is irrelevant.  It is localized, biased, and the worst possible basis to make any kind of collective or societal decisions from.  If Newton had based his theories of gravity on his "experiences" with a feather, then he'd never had discovered anything useful.  The biggest problem with the left today is that they think their "lived experience" trumps reality.  It doesn't, and your personal experiences are worthless as a basis for decision-making, especially in terms of society-wide evaluations.

Newton had an apple fall on his head, while reading a book and wearing a wig, which made him invent gravity, so people stopped being randomly flung out in to space.

Without Newton's "lived experience," we'd still all be randomly flung out in to space. Follow the science.

[Elfdart]

There were no "insurrectionists" in Tennessee, you silly drama queen. Funny how Jan 6 putsch apologists still think there was no insurrection when Trump's summoned mob beat police officers, ransacked the Capitol and called openly for members of Congress to be lynched, but you think some demonstrators who didn't even try to attack police officers, didn't vandalize the state house, didn't threaten anyone and didn't try to overturn an election are "insurrectionists".

Both groups did exactly the same thing, except the pro-trans-mass-murderer side didn't get shot at by the police.

Name someone at the protests in the Tennessee state house who:

• Assaulted police officers
• Damaged or destroyed property
• Threatened bodily harm to others
• Tried to stop certification of an election
• Got arrested

Can't do it, can you?

And while you're at it, can you give examples of where the "Tennessee Three" or their supporters condoned the murder of school kids by that creep?

As far as the "trannies" are concerned, every movement is going to have a fringe.

Except they're not the fringe. The "fringe" in Trans Activism are the people who just want to live quiet normal lives, and think that sterilizing and mutilating preteen children based on the recommendation of some "queer" schoolteacher wanting to get views on tiktok is probably a bad idea.

Do you read this shit somewhere or are you making it up as you go?

The "mainstream" of Trans activism now are the ones who are posting pictures of guns, saying "Trans Day Of Vengeance",

I thought waving guns around and threatening elected officials was part of the Second Amendment -you know the one right-wingers jerk off over in spite of having never read it? Most people who dress and act like the opposite sex or even get sex change operations don't do that sort of thing and probably don't condone it.

holding up Audrey Hale as an innocent victim (those 9 year old christian children were basically committing GENOCIDE on he/him by existing and refusing to be queer), and advocating for open murder of their ideological opponents.

Like you, Brad and Baby Shark treat the Jan 6 fascists as heroes and martyrs and lie about their crimes? Pot, meet kettle.

[Elfdart]

There were no "insurrectionists" in Tennessee, you silly drama queen. Funny how Jan 6 putsch apologists still think there was no insurrection when Trump's summoned mob beat police officers, ransacked the Capitol and called openly for members of Congress to be lynched, but you think some demonstrators who didn't even try to attack police officers, didn't vandalize the state house, didn't threaten anyone and didn't try to overturn an election are "insurrectionists".

You know, if you argued that both events were attempted Insurrection, you'd at least be morally consistent, from your own POV. But instead you just wrote "it's OK when we do it," but via a massive paragraph.

Were you born this stupid or did your parents drop-kick you head first down several flights of stairs when you were a child? Demonstrators who make noise are not the same as a mob that sent scores of police officers to the hospital. If you think the two are remotely comparable then you are a fascist fucktard.