Enjoy.

[Zak S]

59 pages of Zak's narcissism.

Wow. Just, wow.

Dude, you need help.

"You fact-checked misinformation therefore you are a narcissist" doesn't really follow.

[deadDMwalking]

Are you making the claim that you haven't engaged in name-calling?

Zak, you're doing that thing where you ignore questions.  Above is a direct question aimed at you that you have chosen to ignore.  Failure to answer will be proof that you're acting in bad faith and you're a troll. 

Regarding Burden of Proof, what you ALWAYS CONVENIENTLY IGNORE, asshole is that different claims have different burdens of proof.  Trying to claim that I have not supported my accusation that you're an asshole are patently false.  When I refuse to quote myself showing that I have provided evidence in support of my claims it is because you are not the sole judge, asshole.  You have made it VERY CLEAR that there is no standard of evidence that you would accept to prove that you're an asshole, because you think the preposition is false, therefore any supporting argument is either a lie or a misunderstanding.  Your insistence to that is one of the major reasons I keep calling you an asshole. 

You say I haven't PROVEN you're an asshole.  I say I have.  You demand that I meet some unstated standard is not the same as 'not providing evidence. 

And you're very obviously trying to exploit the claim 'burden of proof is on the accuser'.  This is part of your pattern of behavior where you latch on something that seems so reasonable, but you understand it so poorly that I'm forced to laugh at how smart you think you are. In court, the prosecution must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that no other reasonable explanation fits the evidence.  That is not to say that 'I have proven this and there is a mountain of incontrovertible facts that cannot be misconstrued including direct video, eye-witness testimony, a freely given signed confession, physical evidence of the crime matching only the defendant, etc.  Most cases are decided on circumstantial evidence. 

When I present instances where you've been an asshole over and over and over and over again it's possible and in fact plausible that any individual instance is not direct proof.  Maybe some days you forget to take your medicine or someone kicked your dog and you're angry and you vent in the wrong place.  We're all human - we all act like a jerk SOMETIMES - and most people will forgive you for that (especially if you apologize).  But when the behavior happens OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN and we run out of excuses (how many dogs do you have and how often do they kicked?) the only 'reasonable' explanation is that you're an asshole. 

So I accept that I have to provide evidence that you're an asshole.  I've done it.  I don't care to repost all my detailed explanations because that's just one more example of you being an asshole.  Over these 60 pages I've made the claim many times.  The first time was Reply #387, page 26 (for the convenience of people joining this thread almost 40 pages later. 

Beginning with Reply #468 and #476, page 32 I really drilled down in to the specific behaviors that I observe from you and I describe as making you an asshole. 

I stand by these and my additional comments (including this one).  If anyone reading this doesn't think that Zak S is an asshole, I encourage you to read a couple of those posts (along with his responses) because the proof is there. 

[HappyDaze]

No, sorry, not the same. The burden of proof being on the accuser is the fundation upon which innocen until proven guilty is built. It could be 10 years, 10 minutes or 10 millenia old and it still be a good basis.

Great, now you are disagreeing with the other two trolls, who do not believe that burden of proof is on the accuser

Now, when I call someone an asshole that's a matter of opinion, and as such there's no need for proof. Insisting on providing such is an asshole move.

Since Deaddmwalking' claims went beyond namecalling and into false fact claims, this isn't a relevant point.

Unless you're contesting Deaddmwalking's fact claims and saying they aren't real.

I never agreed with them on that, only your deranged brain could interpret me calling you out for conflating them with agreement.

Who cares about what he said? Where in my post do I even get close to saying ANYTHING about him?

Again, only your deranged brain could see what's clearly not there.

IMHO you have some mental issues, I implore you to search help.

I decided to drop out of responding to him simply on the chance he has some acute issues he needs to work out. Shit-flinging can be fun, but he's alluded to some potential real behavioral health issues of his that I'd rather not inflame.

[Rob Necronomicon]

I decided to drop out of responding to him simply on the chance he has some acute issues he needs to work out. Shit-flinging can be fun, but he's alluded to some potential real behavioral health issues of his that I'd rather not inflame.

This is it for me as well... I don't think he seems like a particularly friendly individual (or that's how he comes across to me). But yeah... I don't think everything is 'quite right' and I don't particularly want to see things get any worse for him.

[GeekyBugle]

I decided to drop out of responding to him simply on the chance he has some acute issues he needs to work out. Shit-flinging can be fun, but he's alluded to some potential real behavioral health issues of his that I'd rather not inflame.

This is it for me as well... I don't think he seems like a particularly friendly individual (or that's how he comes across to me). But yeah... I don't think everything is 'quite right' and I don't particularly want to see things get any worse for him.

Ditto, guy's clearly not well, and I don't want to have the charge of conscience that maybe I pushed him to something.

[Tubesock Army]

Same. Basically, there's no getting through to Zak, and I knew this going in. My only real aim was to allow him enough leeway to expose himself, so that anyone who runs across this thread will have plenty of information with which to form an opinion about him.

[Zak S]

Zak, you're doing that thing where you ignore questions.  Above is a direct question aimed at you that you have chosen to ignore.  Failure to answer will be proof that you're acting in bad faith and you're a troll. 

Nope.

You began the conversation with a personal attack:

https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/enjoy/375/

So, that's a first-strike personal attack. I don't need to consider your claims or address them. No one does. You're a troll.

Now you do claim I broke faith first, justifying your trolling behavior, but when asked for proof of this accusation you didn't give them, in post 870 above.

[Mistwell]

And now Rob is a troll too...

You either do his song and dance when he tells you how he tells you or you're a troll.

This is exactly what happened to me in this very thread as well. For years I defended Zak, including in this thread.

But the moment I mentioned he's coming across as an asshole and it would be more persuasive if he chose a different approach, suddenly I was a troll.

Sometimes I wonder if Zak is on the Spectrum and is unaware that he's on the Spectrum and that would explain a lot of his behavior. But then he didn't used to be this way. Prior issues aside, he didn't used to take the world literally like this, and be this unable to read rooms and tone, unable to read body language and unspoken meaning and approaches, unable to judge the meaningful differences between levels of wrongdoing, unable to see bad behavior in himself, etc..

And it's not like you "become" on the Spectrum as an adult over time, as far as I am aware.

Which leads me to a different conclusion: that this is intentional behavior and he either:

A) knows the impact it's having and knows what it looks like and thinks it's a good idea despite that, or else

B) he suffers from some ailment which makes it difficult for him to know those things which he didn't have as much difficulty understanding years ago. Which would imply different issues than being on the Spectrum which can happen to a person over time or even suddenly.

There of course could be a C I have not considered.

[Zak S]

As for the rest of y'all the situation is simple:

You are a hatemob spreading misinformation on the internet about an innocent person whose life was fucked over by the exact misinformation you are spreading on the internet.

The danger is simply this: people believed the exact false claims you're making and acted on them.

You can't pretend to be concerned for your victim without admitting the problem was caused by the thing you did in this thread.

If you have a genuine concern and aren't concern-trolling, then the thing to do is: review your previous claims, look at all the ones you made without proof, apologize for them, admit they weren't true, and do your best to make sure that everyone who read them knows that.

Then seek therapy for the fact that you trolled people on the internet over RPG drama, which is something nobody mentally well would do.

[Zak S]

But the moment I mentioned he's coming across as an asshole and it would be more persuasive if he chose a different approach, suddenly I was a troll.

No you were a troll because of a specific argument you made, which you eventually articulated like this:

You said that it was ok to spread misinformation on the internet in order to "vent".

That's something only a troll would say and is incredibly fucked up. You also fled from the conversation about it when you got caught--which only a troll would do. An honest person would defend their idea if they believed it--that's a good faith conversation.

[Mistwell]

Rob your response talked a lot about motive.

I am not talking about motive.

Do you understand? Y/N?
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As for Grim Jim: I don't like him but I suffered a tremendous amount of harassment in about 2013 because trolls (like you and other people) made false claims (they admitted they were false) about him and I said they shouldn't do that.

Many of them held grudges to this day because I did and they were among the people that created the current situation. So would I defend someone no matter who they were? Yes. Not only that, but I suffered real material damage because of it. Because it's the right thing to do.

And now Rob is a troll too...

You either do his song and dance when he tells you how he tells you or you're a troll.

This is what it feels like. I mean I don't know what else I can say... I think I've said everything I can. And I think I've been pretty polite about it too.

More than he deserves IMHO.

Edited to add:

It just occurred to me, maybe he's on the spectrum? Maybe it's not bad faith, he's just unable to read other people, even more than I am? I'm a highly functioning Aspie, maybe he's got a worst case?

Had not seen this comment before I made mine. You would know better than me but interesting we both thought the same thing. I was even going to add "We should ask GeekyBugle."

[Zak S]

Had not seen this comment before I made mine. You would know better than me but interesting we both thought the same thing.

Also if you genuinely thought someone who'd been involved in three years of legal battles was on the spectrum or had any kind of mental health issue you could just ask for any documents about it.

But that would actually resolve the issue rather than allow you to troll which a troll would not want to do.

You want to type things to your fellow trolls to make them like you, and the rest is theatre.

[GeekyBugle]

And now Rob is a troll too...

You either do his song and dance when he tells you how he tells you or you're a troll.

This is exactly what happened to me in this very thread as well. For years I defended Zak, including in this thread.

But the moment I mentioned he's coming across as an asshole and it would be more persuasive if he chose a different approach, suddenly I was a troll.

Sometimes I wonder if Zak is on the Spectrum and is unaware that he's on the Spectrum and that would explain a lot of his behavior. But then he didn't used to be this way. Prior issues aside, he didn't used to take the world literally like this, and be this unable to read rooms and tone, unable to read body language and unspoken meaning and approaches, unable to judge the meaningful differences between levels of wrongdoing, unable to see bad behavior in himself, etc..

And it's not like you "become" on the Spectrum as an adult over time, as far as I am aware.

Which leads me to a different conclusion: that this is intentional behavior and he either:

A) knows the impact it's having and knows what it looks like and thinks it's a good idea despite that, or else

B) he suffers from some ailment which makes it difficult for him to know those things which he didn't have as much difficulty understanding years ago. Which would imply different issues than being on the Spectrum which can happen to a person over time or even suddenly.

There of course could be a C I have not considered.

You're either born on the spectrum or you're not, you could not be diagnosed as a child (happened to me, yay socialized medicine!).

If what you say is true and he wasn't always like this then it's something else, drugs, some psychosis, or just plain assholery.

[Zak S]

If what you say is true and he wasn't always like this then it's something else, drugs, some psychosis, or just plain assholery.

Your claims have to be ignored, this has already been proved. These are things you already said and prove you're just a troll:

I forgot to tell you to go fuck yourself for calling me a troll,

Again, only your deranged brain...

sperging

[Mistwell]

But the moment I mentioned he's coming across as an asshole and it would be more persuasive if he chose a different approach, suddenly I was a troll.

No you were a troll because of a specific argument you made, which you eventually articulated like this:

You said that it was ok to spread misinformation on the internet in order to "vent".

I don't recall making my own value judgement about it and saying it was "OK" from my perspective. 

If you care to support your allegation then do so.

That's something only a troll would say and is incredibly fucked up. You also fled from the conversation about it when you got caught--which only a troll would do. An honest person would defend their idea if they believed it--that's a good faith conversation.

No Zak, you started to behave badly towards me, and when I tried to talk to you about it you kept doubling down. Honest healthy people walk away when they're abused.