Enjoy.

[Zak S]

Hmm... You've not grasped the way I do things obviously

I've grasped a specific aspect of what you do:

You do what most other people do

Since most people do it, and the situation in the RPG scene is fucked due to people doing what you do, then I am asking how can you defend it?

As I said... Venger has been decent to me and I'm unaware of your accusations. And I don't think airing your grievance with Venger is very productive.

Venger has objectively made false public statements about people.

Again: if you need evidence, please say that.

If you don't care that he's made false statements, please say that.

But at any rate: please specifically address the specific point rather than backing the conversation up into vague generalities.

[Rob Necronomicon]

Hmm... You've not grasped the way I do things obviously

I've grasped a specific aspect of what you do:

You do what most other people do

Since most people do it, and the situation int he RPG scene is fucked, then I am asking how can you defend it?

As I said... Venger has been decent to me and I'm unaware of your accusations. And I don't think airing your grievance with Venger is very productive.

Venger has objectively made false public statements about people.

Again: if you need evidence, please say that.

If you don't care that he's made false statements, please say that.

But at any rate: please specifically address the specific point rather than backing up to vague generalities.

Which aspect specifically do you want me to defend?

You can set up a false dichotomy with Venger if you wish. To get that 'gotcha' moment which appears to be your trademark (as some pointed out of this thread earlier).

Not knowing exactly what Venger said makes it completely irrelevant to me. If he, or anyone acted in a way that I thought was unethical I would say it. I'm certainly not afraid of shooting my mouth off.

But I do think, you are also engaging in a bit of chicanery when talking to people. Having a convo with you is like walking on egshells.

[Zak S]

Which aspect specifically do you want me to defend?

People troll and present misinformation and you don't forcefully point it out.

You can set up a false dichotomy with Venger if you wish.

at no point did I say I wanted to set up a "dichotomy" or one that was "false"

I said a completely unrelated thing:

Venger has publicly made false statements.

Just to simplify things, and go step by step:

Do you understand the following sentence "Venger has made publicly made false statements"?

That's a "yes" or "no" question. Do you understand it?

[Rob Necronomicon]

Which aspect specifically do you want me to defend?

People troll and present misinformation and you don't forcefully point it out.

You can set up a false dichotomy with Venger if you wish.

at no point did I say I wanted to set up a "dichotomy" or one that was "false"

I said a completely unrelated thing:

Venger has publicly made false statements.

Just to simplify things, and go step by step:

Do you understand the following sentence "Venger has made publicly made false statements"?

A) Okay.
B) Yes.

[HappyDaze]

A) I know exactly why they are doing what they are doing, and have given my thoughts on it - Basically a perception that you're not willing to engage with them, even when they try to be genuine all this has led to mudflining on all sides.

Whether it's a "perception" or not, it's objectively false.

Everyone who is in conflict with me in this thread right now was the aggressor and broke good faith discussion pretty much immediately--often to the point of simply opening a conversation with misinformation or a personal attack (you can go back and check that). This thread began with me posting in earnest and them showing up to troll. Which, in every case I'm aware of, is how they've always been. Ive never trolled anyone on the internet ever.

It's not like I showed up while they were talking about something specifically to lie about them.

In fact, at any moment I'd be perfectly happy to sign an enforceable legal contract to have a good faith conversation--and they won't make that offer.

So any perception that I'm not genuine is objectively false. They aren't being genuine because they chose not to be, I am being genuine because I am morally obligated to be and I believe in moral obligations.

B) This is basically a thread about you and what's going on.

Yes and what's going on is a hatemob of which they are part. So it's about them, too.

C) And this is the big one for me, I'm also very curious as to why you seem to be playing into the hands of your enemies.

They want the support of trolls. They get that by trolling.

Only bad people want that.

I don't want that. I have a different goal.

Their goal is served best if they're allowed uncontested speech, and you're not contesting it, so someone else has to.

Plus no matter how much fodder I give them to troll about, nothing they say could possibly sway a rational person because they can't have rational conversations--(since that requires answering questions.)

And as I intimated it's not a route I would go if I was in your shoes. So on that one, we will have to agree to disagree.

Well the route of accommodating trolls has objctively not worked at all and made the problems worse.

So I can't imagine why you'd keep accommodating them, other than fear for your personal safety, status, etc.

This is a BIG FUCKING LIE.

You're so stuck on yourself that you just can't tell when you're lying, can you? Here's a hint: it's whenever your fingers are typing.

Stop lying, Zak.

[Zak S]

This is a BIG FUCKING LIE.

You're so stuck on yourself that you just can't tell when you're lying, can you? Here's a hint: it's whenever your fingers are typing.

Stop lying, Zak.

It's unclear to me which claim you think I'm lying about.

For example, my finger are typing now and I'm saying I have ten fingers. Are you claiming this is a lie?

[Rob Necronomicon]

You're so stuck on yourself that you just can't tell when you're lying, can you? Here's a hint: it's whenever your fingers are typing.

Stop lying, Zak.

Yeah... Seems to be a lot of zig zaking going on now .

Again it's quite interesting... He basically can't resist trying to get a "gotha" even when you are just trying to have a conversation. That's exceedingly weird.

[Zak S]

Which aspect specifically do you want me to defend?

People troll and present misinformation and you don't forcefully point it out.

You can set up a false dichotomy with Venger if you wish.

at no point did I say I wanted to set up a "dichotomy" or one that was "false"

I said a completely unrelated thing:

Venger has publicly made false statements.

Just to simplify things, and go step by step:

Do you understand the following sentence "Venger has made publicly made false statements"?

A) Okay.
B) Yes.

Ok, so: if Venger had made false public statements would you see that as bad?

[Rob Necronomicon]

my finger are typing now and I'm saying I have ten fingers. Are you claiming this is a lie?

That's just you being childish...

[Zak S]

my finger are typing now and I'm saying I have ten fingers. Are you claiming this is a lie?

That's just you being childish...

Since it's unclear what HD is referring to, I don't have much choice but to start at the extreme end of what they could mean and work my way in.

This is the problem with trolling: the line between things the sociopathic-acting troll actually is claiming and their sociopathic-acting believes and what's just a joke or hyperbole is blurred.

Asking for specifics fixes the problem and refusing to give them proves the troll is acting in bad faith.

People with real grievances want to be clear.

[Rob Necronomicon]

my finger are typing now and I'm saying I have ten fingers. Are you claiming this is a lie?

That's just you being childish...

Since it's unclear what HD is referring to, I don't have much choice but to start at the extreme end of what they could mean and work my way in.

No... That's you just being childish.

[Zak S]

my finger are typing now and I'm saying I have ten fingers. Are you claiming this is a lie?

That's just you being childish...

Since it's unclear what HD is referring to, I don't have much choice but to start at the extreme end of what they could mean and work my way in.

No... That's you just being childish.

Then how do you propose--specifically--we figure out what claim this troll is tryin to claim are false?

[Rob Necronomicon]

Ok, so: if Venger had made false public statements would you see that as bad?

It depends on the nature of what is being said:

"I'm going to chop my neighbor's head off with a rusty machete!!!"

I've just made a false public statement.

[Zak S]

Ok, so: if Venger had made false public statements would you see that as bad?

It depends on the nature of what is being said:

"I'm going to chop my neighbor's head off with a rusty machete!!!"

I've just made a false public statement.

So, instead of giving examples , can you describe, in english the difference between:

-The category of false public statement that would concern you and
-The category of false public statement that wouldn't.

For example:

I am concerned about negative false public statements about living people that other people might believe and act on.

Can you do that?

[Rob Necronomicon]

I am concerned about negative false public statements about living people that other people might believe and act on.

If you put it like that. I don't see how anyone (with a consioence) could say that it's okay to do it. Because you could actually cause 'harm'.

But isn't that obvious? In fact, I said words to that effect a while ago. Sigh...

I think the crux of the matter here is you're trying to paint me as a bad guy for not calling out trolls (even stuff that I have no idea about, apparently). Unlike my characters, I wasn't born psychic.

But what you don't seem to realize is that I'm quite happy, if you wish to paint me as a bad person. You wouldn't be the first and you won't be the last. But the only person I have to answer to is me (and my own standards).