Enjoy.

[Zak S]

You are illustrating the problem:

There's a reason why people don't casually insult strangers all day out in the real world.

Ah, so you're not a sports fan I see.

Because you do that, with sports. And RPG discussion online, particularly on this message board, is like sports discussions. Where you do in fact casually insult each other. Because it's not serious. It's just taking the piss out of each other. It's playful. And that is something you used to grok just fine. Before the dark days.

No, people don't casually accuse each other of "gish galloping" and being "manipulative" down at the bar.

And they super don't do it in front of audiences of thousands

You're not making sense

Casually attacking innocent people

Nobody here is innocent people, and you are probably in the top 5 least innocent people here.

So, you're lying:

I'm innocent. Burden of proof is on you.

Again: not a thing people say during the Lakers game.

No you're wrong. You walked into a biker bar and you expect it to be church

This is neither. This is a public space read by thousands of people who take what's said here as fact

There is literally no advantage to letting people lie here.

If there was: one of you would have been able to describe it by now, after all these years.

But it DOES do something useful. It's cathartic. It de-stresses,

The need for a shitty person who won't go to therapy to insult someone to "de-stress" is less important than the right of their victims to not be lied about and for the pubic to not be misinformed. In fact: most of the problems on RPGnet this forum complains about would never have happened if it weren't for misinformation.

That's why "I lied to de-stress" isn't a valid defense in any court anywhere I'm aware of.

But you USED TO BE THAT GUY. On Google Hangouts you were that guy.

At literally no point ever did I allow misinformation on my G+ page or anywhere else.

You're lying.

[Mistwell]

Edit - This conversation was not worth having

[Zak S]

Nobody here is innocent people, and you are probably in the top 5 least innocent people here.

So, you're lying:

I'm innocent. Burden of proof is on you.

OK, perfect example. Nobody normal in this situation would call someone a liar for calling you, a rock star porn star, "not innocent" in a conversation like this. Usually people take it as a compliment or the obvious joke it's intended to be in this kind of context. There is no justifiable context here to take that accusation literally and seriously and then call someone a liar and start asking for proof they're not innocent, in terms of society standards of innocence.

Which you used to know. It used to be you'd reply in this kind of conversation with a Tim Curry type "Oh you know it, big boy" type comment like we just got out of Rocky Horror Picture Show.

It's like you've lost the ability to read the room.

Fuck the room: you have to do the right thing even when it's unpopular.

Again:

Z: "This thing you're doing, it's bad"
You: "But it's normal to do bad things here!"

Yeah I get that because you aren't getting what you need out of a good therapist or friends in your life, you make stupid accusations to "de-stress" or just because you don't want to engage in a way that helps anyone.

We're not talking about whether that's "normal" here: it is.

We're talking about how that's bad because (as everyone on this site says all the time) the RPG community is fucked.

And having (and defending) norms where there's no taboo against saying shit that's not true is the cause of it. Every single major issue in the scene. Every time you do the "Liar's Rights Activist" dance you're helping things be worse.

This was true when the Big Purple did it, it was true when people were attacking Maliszewski over his kickstarter, it was true when people attacked MicKinney and Raggi, it was true when people were edition warring and you can't just admit that because your lying is sacred or playful or whatever excuse you have.

The thing where nobody's allowed to lie? That was the rule on my Google + page that you apparently enjoyed so much.

[Mistwell]

Edit - This conversation was not worth having

[Zak S]

Again:

Z: "This thing you're doing, it's bad"
You: "But it's normal to do bad things here!"

Yeah I get that because you aren't getting what you need out of a good therapist or friends in your life, you make stupid accusations to "de-stress" or just because you don't want to engage in a way that helps anyone.

We're not talking about whether that's "normal" here: it is.

We're talking about how that's bad because (as everyone on this site says all the time) the RPG community is fucked.

And having (and defending) norms where there's no taboo against saying shit that's not true is the cause of it. Every single major issue in the scene. Every time you do the "Liar's Rights Activist" dance you're helping things be worse.

This was true when the Big Purple did it, it was true when people were attacking Maliszewski over his kickstarter, it was true when people attacked MicKinney and Raggi, it was true when people were edition warring and you can't just admit that because your lying is sacred or playful or whatever excuse you have.

The thing where nobody's allowed to lie? That was the rule on my Google + page that you apparently enjoyed so much.

Are you still trying to say me jokingly saying nobody here is innocent and you're probably in the top 5 least innocent people here is me lying about you? Seriously, after the context is made crystal clear you, you're still beating that drum?

You must be real fucking fun at a party.

This isn't a party.

This is a place where people get information on RPG creators, products, techniques, etc.

While there are people who (weirdly) think being here is fun, that's way less important than whether the things said here are true because they can be googled by people with no social connection to anyone involved.

So maybe someone lies because it's fun.

Maybe someone lies because context makes it "clear" (to who?) that you're joking around.

Maybe someone lies because they didn't bother to check.

None of that matters the second someone googles the topic and looks for information on it.

And there's extensive proof that everybody's jokes and hyperbole and exaggerations and sloppy statements are believed and acted on. And that's pretty much where every single problem in the RPG scene comes from.

You can't deny that.

So, there's a massive downside to being sloppy with the truth and no meaningful upside.

You want to have a party: leave the house.

[GnomeWorks]

Whoever summoned shitmuffin: let this be a lesson learned, don't do it.

To shitmuffin: fuck you, you're a psychotic asshole who does nothing but talk out his ass. That there is anyone willing to give your narcissistic bullshit the time of day at this point frankly surprises me.

And as I said the last time you reared your disgusting face: don't fucking quote me, you worthless fucking shitstain, or otherwise address me directly. You are a fucking blight, and nothing you say is of any value.

[Rob Necronomicon]

Lots of misinformation Rob spread, he admitted wasn't true.

I did?

Okaaaay.... Well, whatever gets you through the day, Zak.

[Rob Necronomicon]

Rob. Pour yourself a pint. Light up a good cigar.

Unplug, man. Some people you can have conversations with, and some people you can't. Regardless of whatever kind of legal battles and court drama swirling around Zak, it seems like many interactions between him and others online--even when ostensibly talking with someone that is not overtly hostile--the interaction always devolves into what we see here.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Well said, Shark.

I think I'll take your advice... I'll have a few Jamesons, and watch this from afar.

[HappyDaze]

Whoever summoned shitmuffin: let this be a lesson learned, don't do it.

To shitmuffin: fuck you, you're a psychotic asshole who does nothing but talk out his ass. That there is anyone willing to give your narcissistic bullshit the time of day at this point frankly surprises me.

And as I said the last time you reared your disgusting face: don't fucking quote me, you worthless fucking shitstain, or otherwise address me directly. You are a fucking blight, and nothing you say is of any value.

I was finding his posts entertaining. And thank you for proving what he said...again.

[Zak S]

Whoever summoned shitmuffin: let this be a lesson learned, don't do it.

To shitmuffin: fuck you, you're a psychotic asshole who does nothing but talk out his ass. That there is anyone willing to give your narcissistic bullshit the time of day at this point frankly surprises me.

And as I said the last time you reared your disgusting face: don't fucking quote me, you worthless fucking shitstain, or otherwise address me directly. You are a fucking blight, and nothing you say is of any value.

Prove it.

[Zak S]

Lots of misinformation Rob spread, he admitted wasn't true.

I did?

Okaaaay.... Well, whatever gets you through the day, Zak.

Ok, feel free to clarify:

Are you saying I, for example, did a "gish gallop"?

If so: extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

[Vampire Rabbit]

I saw a (long) interview with Zak on YouTube where he seemed reasonable enough:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq7gY06hV-o

Start at 50:00. The part where he talks about lawyers and judges looking at internet flamewars and saying "Holy fuck, what's wrong with these people? is this real?"

It really is a good video. I don't know what I would be like if I had gone with years of non-stop being drug through the mud with false claims like he has. I think that at some point that would just destroy me and my happiness and I'd be swallowed by the darkness and go to war with everyone, everywhere. I hope Zak can find some peace, happiness, and ability to publish books after the courts have proven all of his accusers guilty and found him to be innocent.

[Rob Necronomicon]

Rob. Pour yourself a pint. Light up a good cigar.

PS - I meant to say. If you or the fam ever come over to the Emerald Isle to visit Cork. We should definitely meet up for a few (or a shit-ton) Jamesons.

[jeff37923]

It's like you're saying "You're a redhead that's just my opinion".

You're a whore. That's not an opinion.  That's a fact.

And you are a liar. What of it?

[Zak S]

It's like you're saying "You're a redhead that's just my opinion".

You're a whore. That's not an opinion.  That's a fact.

And you are a liar. What of it?

Say what I lied about and then prove it.

Also, as an aside, its so weird you still do this after all these years.