Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.

[Zirunel]

Wait what? Who said the flu had been "eradicated?" I missed that one.

The narrative less than a year ago was that flu had been "eradicated" and supplanted by covid. Were you not paying attention?

For example: https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/06/04/flu-j04.html

It was yet another lie, of course, which they're now quietly reversing away from and hoping no one notices.

No, I guess I wasn't paying attention to the "World Socialist Web Site." Who is? Are you? Did you even read this? Did anybody?

It's not just that site. It was widely reported that the flu had vanished, because it was displaced by sars2.
https://www.pnas.org/content/116/52/27142

It's not dissimilar from the way the covid-19 variants have been displacing each other. Though in a twist, there have been reports that omicron is displacing the common cold, not the flu.

Your link is potentially more credible than anything Kieros come up with lately. Interesting, even.  But it makes no reference to Covid-19 at all (understandable given the publication date), and no reference to anything being "eradicated."

Duckduckgo it. As I pointed out, it was widely reported. This isn't something obscure that was only posted on some weird little sites. You missed a major news item. Pick any newspaper you like, odds are it was covered.

More science:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33243355/

The significantly lower incidence of flu in the 20-21 flu season(s) was certainly noted and covered. I'm still waiting to hear any claims that flu has been "eradicated."

+1 dishonest poster point

I said vanished. You replied to my post, tacitly accepting that phrasing instead of Kiero's. Now you're trying to shift back.

"Tacitly accepting?" What on earth are you talking about? Simply replying to your post does not constitute tacit acceptance of its content.

+2 dishonest poster points

I didn't saying anything about tacit acceptance of the content, just that you acknowledged I said what I said by replying to it. You're switching in another poster's wording and demanding I defend it. If you wanted to make a distinction between vanished and eradicated, you should have addressed that when I said it, instead of playing these shitty games.

You absolutely said I somehow "tacitly accepted" your phrasing simply by replying. Ridiculous, but whatever.

I'm not switching in another poster's wording, Keiro's wording is what I disputed and I did not depart from his phrasing to try to weasel in another phrasing. Look at my posts, I stuck with his wording every time. You're the one who decided to change the language. For some reason.

As for demanding you defend it, I did no such thing. I asked Kiero to to defend it, not you. I've no idea why you decided to jump in. Your contribution was clearly not germane, but I really don't care if you defend it or don't.

[Zirunel]

No, I guess I wasn't paying attention to the "World Socialist Web Site." Who is? Are you? Did you even read this? Did anybody?

You want BBC or Sky News? Every fucking outlet was blurting out this shit nine months ago. Spare me the faux surprise.

Anyway, getting back to your original assertion, which of those sources claimed the flu had been "eradicated?" Yes, temporarily suppressed because of Covid measures, but "eradicated?"

...... aside from the World Socialist Web Site......

I'm still not seeing it.

[RPGPundit]

In general, does anyone have a model for what good handling of the pandemic should be? Has there been any government during the pandemic that did a good job, in your opinion?

Uruguay.

[Pat]

Wait what? Who said the flu had been "eradicated?" I missed that one.

The narrative less than a year ago was that flu had been "eradicated" and supplanted by covid. Were you not paying attention?

For example: https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/06/04/flu-j04.html

It was yet another lie, of course, which they're now quietly reversing away from and hoping no one notices.

No, I guess I wasn't paying attention to the "World Socialist Web Site." Who is? Are you? Did you even read this? Did anybody?

It's not just that site. It was widely reported that the flu had vanished, because it was displaced by sars2.
https://www.pnas.org/content/116/52/27142

It's not dissimilar from the way the covid-19 variants have been displacing each other. Though in a twist, there have been reports that omicron is displacing the common cold, not the flu.

Your link is potentially more credible than anything Kieros come up with lately. Interesting, even.  But it makes no reference to Covid-19 at all (understandable given the publication date), and no reference to anything being "eradicated."

Duckduckgo it. As I pointed out, it was widely reported. This isn't something obscure that was only posted on some weird little sites. You missed a major news item. Pick any newspaper you like, odds are it was covered.

More science:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33243355/

The significantly lower incidence of flu in the 20-21 flu season(s) was certainly noted and covered. I'm still waiting to hear any claims that flu has been "eradicated."

+1 dishonest poster point

I said vanished. You replied to my post, tacitly accepting that phrasing instead of Kiero's. Now you're trying to shift back.

"Tacitly accepting?" What on earth are you talking about? Simply replying to your post does not constitute tacit acceptance of its content.

+2 dishonest poster points

I didn't saying anything about tacit acceptance of the content, just that you acknowledged I said what I said by replying to it. You're switching in another poster's wording and demanding I defend it. If you wanted to make a distinction between vanished and eradicated, you should have addressed that when I said it, instead of playing these shitty games.

You absolutely said I somehow "tacitly accepted" your phrasing simply by replying. Ridiculous, but whatever.

I'm not switching in another poster's wording, Keiro's wording is what I disputed and I did not depart from his phrasing to try to weasel in another phrasing. Look at my posts, I stuck with his wording every time. You're the one who decided to change the language. For some reason.

As for demanding you defend it, I did no such thing. I asked Kiero to to defend it, not you. I've no idea why you decided to jump in. Your contribution was clearly not germane, but I really don't care if you defend it or don't.

Yes, I said tacitly accepted. That's not the same as agreeing, as I just explained. You're insisting that your misinterpretation of my words is correct, even though I've specifically clarified what I meant. Why has this become such a common rhetorical technique? It's one of the worst possible combinations of internet telepathy and assuming bad faith.

And I'm not allowed to respond to conversations unless I've been specifically invited? Fuck that.

[oggsmash]

LOL I like to argue sometimes as an intellectual exercise from time to time, as I am sure most of us here do, but you two need to get a room.

[jhkim]

Sorry for the confusion. My thoughts have changed as the situation developed.

At first, I was ok with the approval process because I trusted the CDC to be at least somewhat reliable in their evaluations, if for any reason just to keep the trust of the public.

As the vaccines were rolled out, and the agencies involved got pretty cagey I got concerned about their responsibility for the vaccines safety and efficacy. Still, as long as taking the vaccines was optional, I could opt out and hope more people would speak out about their concerns.

Now, that trust has been shattered and in hindsight, Operation Warp Speed was a mistake.

Who knows what tomorrow may bring? My suspicion, and it remains just a suspicion for now, is that adverse side effects from the vaccines are going to be more severe and widespread than the public has been told, and that this will come out slowly over the course of years, so that the agencies responsible can slowly form narratives, backtrack, and shift blame around.

Thanks for the clarification, Ratman. Your position is at least clearer to me now.

I also don't know what tomorrow may bring. I don't have a medical background, and don't have any strong predictions about the long term consequences of covid and/or covid vaccines. It seems like omicron is going to become endemic like the cold and flu, but what that means is still up in the air. For social trends - for long-term predictions, I tend to downplay what is seen in the last 5-10 years. It is overly hyped and people don't have perspective on it.

[Pat]

I've believed, from almost the start of the pandemic, that the #1 problem with the response was messaging. Public health lied, manipulated people, acted like patronizing shits, tried to shut down legitimate debate, drummed up irrational fear, and spoke with authority about things they know absolutely nothing about (someone with no training and who's never even had a real job in their life isn't an authority on the economy). You know it's bad when even extremist left-wing sites that are complete lickspittles when it comes to government anything call them out for being the worst part of the pandemic:
https://www.vox.com/coronavirus-covid19/22870268/cdc-covid-19-guidelines-isolation-boosters-masks

Well, it used to be the #1 problem. Right up until the moment when most of the world's leaders spontaneously decided to violate the Nuremberg Code on a national scale.

WTF is wrong with the world.

[Ratman_tf]

WTF is wrong with the world.

People were/are afraid. Fearful people can be easily manipulated.

It's probably literally the oldest trick in the book. Right next to "What's that?!?!"

[Ratman_tf]

Dr John Campbell commenting on the Isreal news report about increased cases of myocarditis in vaccinated people.

[Pat]

I haven't listened to him for a while, but Campbell was one my major sources of daily updates during the start of the pandemic. He's an interesting mix, because he's clearly in favor of big government everything and mandates, but he's also held a couple anti-narrative positions. For instance, he was a big proponent of vitamin D from the start. And less than two weeks ago, he was "fact checked" by the BBC, who claimed he said only 17,000 people died of covid-19. Of course, that's a blatant lie. What he did do is go through a government report listing the number of people in Wales and England who died of covid-19. The report broke the deaths down by preexisting condition, like diabetes or hypertension, and then concluded with the final line, which was the number of people who died of covid-19 without any pre-existing conditions. That's where the 17,000 deaths came from.

The BBC is roughly as reliable as Snopes.

[Ratman_tf]

I haven't listened to him for a while, but Campbell was one my major sources of daily updates during the start of the pandemic. He's an interesting mix, because he's clearly in favor of big government everything and mandates, but he's also held a couple anti-narrative positions. For instance, he was a big proponent of vitamin D from the start. And less than two weeks ago, he was "fact checked" by the BBC, who claimed he said only 17,000 people died of covid-19. Of course, that's a blatant lie. What he did do is go through a government report listing the number of people in Wales and England who died of covid-19. The report broke the deaths down by preexisting condition, like diabetes or hypertension, and then concluded with the final line, which was the number of people who died of covid-19 without any pre-existing conditions. That's where the 17,000 deaths came from.

The BBC is roughly as reliable as Snopes.

Same. I'm glad I found him when the thing was first breaking. I don't know if Campbell is ever correct on a particular detail, but I do trust his commentary to be sincere more than the bobble heads on mainstream news.

[Pat]

I haven't listened to him for a while, but Campbell was one my major sources of daily updates during the start of the pandemic. He's an interesting mix, because he's clearly in favor of big government everything and mandates, but he's also held a couple anti-narrative positions. For instance, he was a big proponent of vitamin D from the start. And less than two weeks ago, he was "fact checked" by the BBC, who claimed he said only 17,000 people died of covid-19. Of course, that's a blatant lie. What he did do is go through a government report listing the number of people in Wales and England who died of covid-19. The report broke the deaths down by preexisting condition, like diabetes or hypertension, and then concluded with the final line, which was the number of people who died of covid-19 without any pre-existing conditions. That's where the 17,000 deaths came from.

The BBC is roughly as reliable as Snopes.

Same. I'm glad I found him when the thing was first breaking. I don't know if Campbell is ever correct on a particular detail, but I do trust his commentary to be sincere more than the bobble heads on mainstream news.

He's got his biases, but he's critical, and looks hard at data instead of trying to morph everything to fit preconceived notions.

The one thing he got blatantly wrong was US states. He absolutely did not grok the concept of federalism. He's 100% the central government should have unlimited authority type of guy. Which makes him a useful counterbalance, because he comes from a very different perspective.

[Kiero]

Look dude, very few give a shit what insane belief you have on a day to day basis based on some bullshit you read on some random website which happens to match your nutcase mindset that day. Be it a conspiracy theory antisemetic site to the world socialist site, as long as it agrees with your lunatic conspiracy view that day you're all for spreading that nonsense to any who will listen. And I'll tell yah buddy, few are listening to your rantings anymore with much more than a shrug or a laugh or an eyeroll.

Assuming you're still alive after jab number nine or whatever you're on next year, I'm going to enjoy ripping the piss out of you when you've finally got a clue. My "beliefs" don't change day to day, I've said this is all utter bullshit from the beginning, and time is vindicating.

Nor could I give a flying fuck who's listening, I'll be able to point to this in the future and laugh at you idiots when you finally catch up.

Anyway, getting back to your original assertion, which of those sources claimed the flu had been "eradicated?" Yes, temporarily suppressed because of Covid measures, but "eradicated?"

...... aside from the World Socialist Web Site......

I'm still not seeing it.

Help yourself to your search engine of choice and BBC or Sky News. You can stick your disingenuous and dishonest witterings up your arse for all I care.

[oggsmash]

  Well, I do hope it will not turn out this vaccine, or something in it, does not cause cancer or some other horrible problem as a MYRIAD of the other FDA approved products and drugs from the companies that created this vaccine have done.  All those of course had a proper period of clinical trials and went through all the time and red tape a drug normally has to go through.   I am sure being free of liability and able to do it super fast would not have created something over looked, or under cared about long term in this race of immoral titans to cash in.

[Zirunel]

Help yourself to your search engine of choice and BBC or Sky News. You can stick your disingenuous and dishonest witterings up your arse for all I care.

Already searched. BBC no. Sky sort of: one sensationalist headline about "eradication" but the body only refers to a "reduction" in flu cases.

In short, unsurprisingly, there is no there there.