Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.

[Pat]

Wait what? Who said the flu had been "eradicated?" I missed that one.

The narrative less than a year ago was that flu had been "eradicated" and supplanted by covid. Were you not paying attention?

For example: https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/06/04/flu-j04.html

It was yet another lie, of course, which they're now quietly reversing away from and hoping no one notices.

No, I guess I wasn't paying attention to the "World Socialist Web Site." Who is? Are you? Did you even read this? Did anybody?

It's not just that site. It was widely reported that the flu had vanished, because it was displaced by sars2.
https://www.pnas.org/content/116/52/27142

It's not dissimilar from the way the covid-19 variants have been displacing each other. Though in a twist, there have been reports that omicron is displacing the common cold, not the flu.

Your link is potentially more credible than anything Kieros come up with lately. Interesting, even.  But it makes no reference to Covid-19 at all (understandable given the publication date), and no reference to anything being "eradicated."

Duckduckgo it. As I pointed out, it was widely reported. This isn't something obscure that was only posted on some weird little sites. You missed a major news item. Pick any newspaper you like, odds are it was covered.

More science:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33243355/

The significantly lower incidence of flu in the 20-21 flu season(s) was certainly noted and covered. I'm still waiting to hear any claims that flu has been "eradicated."

+1 dishonest poster point

I said vanished. You replied to my post, tacitly accepting that phrasing instead of Kiero's. Now you're trying to shift back.

[Ratman_tf]

In general, does anyone have a model for what good handling of the pandemic should be?

Two weeks to flatten the curve was acceptable, IMO. We were going into a situation where we had very little data on what we were facing.

As soon as the information started coming in that it was only somewhat more deadly than the flu, we weren't looking at the next Plauge or Ebola, and that people with existing health conditions and the elderly were most suceptible, we should have lifted all restrictions and let people manage their own risks. Operation Warp Speed was acceptable as a purely voluntary measure to get a vaccine out quickly for those who wanted it, while other treatments were investigated and a long term study of the new vaccines was put into place.

End. Of. Response.

But the restrictions and lockdowns and mandates dragged on for years, and the experimental vaccine became less and less voluntary, and disinformation campaigns from mainstream media "HORSE DEWORMER!!!" tried to grab a monopoly for the vaccines.

Shit, I don't think there's any real good AND practical way to handle a pandemic when so many people have shown that they'll grab all the power and money they can out of the situation.

We just have to live with this psuedoscientifical garbage until the narrative finally collapses, and it seems like that's not far, now.

[Mistwell]

In general, does anyone have a model for what good handling of the pandemic should be?

Two weeks to flatten the curve was acceptable, IMO. We were going into a situation where we had very little data on what we were facing.

As soon as the information started coming in that it was only somewhat more deadly than the flu, we weren't looking at the next Plauge or Ebola, and that people with existing health conditions and the elderly were most suceptible, we should have lifted all restrictions and let people manage their own risks. Operation Warp Speed was acceptable as a purely voluntary measure to get a vaccine out quickly for those who wanted it, while other treatments were investigated and a long term study of the new vaccines was put into place.

End. Of. Response.

But the restrictions and lockdowns and mandates dragged on for years, and the experimental vaccine became less and less voluntary, and disinformation campaigns from mainstream media "HORSE DEWORMER!!!" tried to grab a monopoly for the vaccines.

Shit, I don't think there's any real good AND practical way to handle a pandemic when so many people have shown that they'll grab all the power and money they can out of the situation.

We just have to live with this psuedoscientifical garbage until the narrative finally collapses, and it seems like that's not far, now.

We should have spent a lot more money on making tests easily available, particularly the home tests.

[Pat]

In general, does anyone have a model for what good handling of the pandemic should be?

Two weeks to flatten the curve was acceptable, IMO. We were going into a situation where we had very little data on what we were facing.

As soon as the information started coming in that it was only somewhat more deadly than the flu, we weren't looking at the next Plauge or Ebola, and that people with existing health conditions and the elderly were most suceptible, we should have lifted all restrictions and let people manage their own risks. Operation Warp Speed was acceptable as a purely voluntary measure to get a vaccine out quickly for those who wanted it, while other treatments were investigated and a long term study of the new vaccines was put into place.

End. Of. Response.

But the restrictions and lockdowns and mandates dragged on for years, and the experimental vaccine became less and less voluntary, and disinformation campaigns from mainstream media "HORSE DEWORMER!!!" tried to grab a monopoly for the vaccines.

Shit, I don't think there's any real good AND practical way to handle a pandemic when so many people have shown that they'll grab all the power and money they can out of the situation.

We just have to live with this psuedoscientifical garbage until the narrative finally collapses, and it seems like that's not far, now.

We should have spent a lot more money on making tests easily available, particularly the home tests.

I'm not sure that would have been useful. The tests are important for contract tracing, but that's a lost cause once there is widespread community transmission (i.e. late 2019 in the US). After that, clinical diagnoses based on symptoms is all that's needed most of the time. Having more tests out there just leads to overconfidence (home tests sensitivity can be low, leading to false negatives), puts stress on healthcare and other vitals systems, and creates a lot of anxiety.

[Zirunel]

Wait what? Who said the flu had been "eradicated?" I missed that one.

The narrative less than a year ago was that flu had been "eradicated" and supplanted by covid. Were you not paying attention?

For example: https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/06/04/flu-j04.html

It was yet another lie, of course, which they're now quietly reversing away from and hoping no one notices.

No, I guess I wasn't paying attention to the "World Socialist Web Site." Who is? Are you? Did you even read this? Did anybody?

It's not just that site. It was widely reported that the flu had vanished, because it was displaced by sars2.
https://www.pnas.org/content/116/52/27142

It's not dissimilar from the way the covid-19 variants have been displacing each other. Though in a twist, there have been reports that omicron is displacing the common cold, not the flu.

Your link is potentially more credible than anything Kieros come up with lately. Interesting, even.  But it makes no reference to Covid-19 at all (understandable given the publication date), and no reference to anything being "eradicated."

Duckduckgo it. As I pointed out, it was widely reported. This isn't something obscure that was only posted on some weird little sites. You missed a major news item. Pick any newspaper you like, odds are it was covered.

More science:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33243355/

The significantly lower incidence of flu in the 20-21 flu season(s) was certainly noted and covered. I'm still waiting to hear any claims that flu has been "eradicated."

+1 dishonest poster point

I said vanished. You replied to my post, tacitly accepting that phrasing instead of Kiero's. Now you're trying to shift back.

"Tacitly accepting?" What on earth are you talking about? Simply replying to your post does not constitute tacit acceptance of its content.

[Kiero]

No, I guess I wasn't paying attention to the "World Socialist Web Site." Who is? Are you? Did you even read this? Did anybody?

You want BBC or Sky News? Every fucking outlet was blurting out this shit nine months ago. Spare me the faux surprise.

[Kiero]

We should have spent a lot more money on making tests easily available, particularly the home tests.

What the fuck for, when the tests are utter horseshit? The PCR test (the "gold standard" they said) can't tell the difference between covid, influenza, norovirus or a dozen other pathogens. Nor can it tell whether the virus is active or dead.

The LFT is even less accurate. It's a scam, a way of fleecing the public purse of millions for something that is useless.

[3catcircus]

We should have spent a lot more money on making tests easily available, particularly the home tests.

What the fuck for, when the tests are utter horseshit? The PCR test (the "gold standard" they said) can't tell the difference between covid, influenza, norovirus or a dozen other pathogens. Nor can it tell whether the virus is active or dead.

The LFT is even less accurate. It's a scam, a way of fleecing the public purse of millions for something that is useless.

The fact of the matter is that the guy who invented PCR clearly stated it's not a diagnostic tool - he blasted Fauxi for using it in the 80s to declare someone infected with AIDS.

Just like the guy who invented mRNA technology clearly warned of its dangers.

[Pat]

Wait what? Who said the flu had been "eradicated?" I missed that one.

The narrative less than a year ago was that flu had been "eradicated" and supplanted by covid. Were you not paying attention?

For example: https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/06/04/flu-j04.html

It was yet another lie, of course, which they're now quietly reversing away from and hoping no one notices.

No, I guess I wasn't paying attention to the "World Socialist Web Site." Who is? Are you? Did you even read this? Did anybody?

It's not just that site. It was widely reported that the flu had vanished, because it was displaced by sars2.
https://www.pnas.org/content/116/52/27142

It's not dissimilar from the way the covid-19 variants have been displacing each other. Though in a twist, there have been reports that omicron is displacing the common cold, not the flu.

Your link is potentially more credible than anything Kieros come up with lately. Interesting, even.  But it makes no reference to Covid-19 at all (understandable given the publication date), and no reference to anything being "eradicated."

Duckduckgo it. As I pointed out, it was widely reported. This isn't something obscure that was only posted on some weird little sites. You missed a major news item. Pick any newspaper you like, odds are it was covered.

More science:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33243355/

The significantly lower incidence of flu in the 20-21 flu season(s) was certainly noted and covered. I'm still waiting to hear any claims that flu has been "eradicated."

+1 dishonest poster point

I said vanished. You replied to my post, tacitly accepting that phrasing instead of Kiero's. Now you're trying to shift back.

"Tacitly accepting?" What on earth are you talking about? Simply replying to your post does not constitute tacit acceptance of its content.

+2 dishonest poster points

I didn't saying anything about tacit acceptance of the content, just that you acknowledged I said what I said by replying to it. You're switching in another poster's wording and demanding I defend it. If you wanted to make a distinction between vanished and eradicated, you should have addressed that when I said it, instead of playing these shitty games.

[jhkim]

Ratman - I'm unsure of your position. Previously you said about the covid vaccines,

I'm againt the covid vaccines because they rolled them out in less than a year, bypassed the approval process with 'emergency use authorization', and then pushed them on as many people as possible while intentionally supressing any investigation into side effects as being "anti-vaxx".

Over the past two years, my trust in government, the scientific, pharmecutical, and media organizations went from "low" to "fuck no, and why aren't you in jail?"

But just now, you said:

As soon as the information started coming in that it was only somewhat more deadly than the flu, we weren't looking at the next Plauge or Ebola, and that people with existing health conditions and the elderly were most suceptible, we should have lifted all restrictions and let people manage their own risks. Operation Warp Speed was acceptable as a purely voluntary measure to get a vaccine out quickly for those who wanted it, while other treatments were investigated and a long term study of the new vaccines was put into place.

Have you changed your position on the rollout via Operation Warp Speed? It sounded in the prior post that you were highly critical of the emergency authorization. Do you consider the vaccines and boosters safe now? If not, how do you feel about Trump recommending the vaccines and boosters?

[moonsweeper]

Ratman - I'm unsure of your position. Previously you said about the covid vaccines,

I'm againt the covid vaccines because they rolled them out in less than a year, bypassed the approval process with 'emergency use authorization', and then pushed them on as many people as possible while intentionally supressing any investigation into side effects as being "anti-vaxx".

Over the past two years, my trust in government, the scientific, pharmecutical, and media organizations went from "low" to "fuck no, and why aren't you in jail?"

But just now, you said:

As soon as the information started coming in that it was only somewhat more deadly than the flu, we weren't looking at the next Plauge or Ebola, and that people with existing health conditions and the elderly were most suceptible, we should have lifted all restrictions and let people manage their own risks. Operation Warp Speed was acceptable as a purely voluntary measure to get a vaccine out quickly for those who wanted it, while other treatments were investigated and a long term study of the new vaccines was put into place.

Have you changed your position on the rollout via Operation Warp Speed? It sounded in the prior post that you were highly critical of the emergency authorization. Do you consider the vaccines and boosters safe now?

I highlighted the two contrasting points between Ratman's posts.  It made sense to me, but I know you sometimes have trouble with English...  (Ratman can feel free to correct me if my interpretation is wrong)

If not, how do you feel about Trump recommending the vaccines and boosters?

What the hell difference does this even make...just because you conduct your scientific interpretations and analysis through a political lens doesn't mean the rest of us do...

[Mistwell]

In general, does anyone have a model for what good handling of the pandemic should be?

Two weeks to flatten the curve was acceptable, IMO. We were going into a situation where we had very little data on what we were facing.

As soon as the information started coming in that it was only somewhat more deadly than the flu, we weren't looking at the next Plauge or Ebola, and that people with existing health conditions and the elderly were most suceptible, we should have lifted all restrictions and let people manage their own risks. Operation Warp Speed was acceptable as a purely voluntary measure to get a vaccine out quickly for those who wanted it, while other treatments were investigated and a long term study of the new vaccines was put into place.

End. Of. Response.

But the restrictions and lockdowns and mandates dragged on for years, and the experimental vaccine became less and less voluntary, and disinformation campaigns from mainstream media "HORSE DEWORMER!!!" tried to grab a monopoly for the vaccines.

Shit, I don't think there's any real good AND practical way to handle a pandemic when so many people have shown that they'll grab all the power and money they can out of the situation.

We just have to live with this psuedoscientifical garbage until the narrative finally collapses, and it seems like that's not far, now.

We should have spent a lot more money on making tests easily available, particularly the home tests.

I'm not sure that would have been useful. The tests are important for contract tracing, but that's a lost cause once there is widespread community transmission (i.e. late 2019 in the US). After that, clinical diagnoses based on symptoms is all that's needed most of the time. Having more tests out there just leads to overconfidence (home tests sensitivity can be low, leading to false negatives), puts stress on healthcare and other vitals systems, and creates a lot of anxiety.

I have no idea how a home test (which takes 10 minutes) would put stress on vital systems. Some nations got to the point where front line workers who are in common contact with the public would taste daily before work on a voluntary basis. That did reduce the spread in meaningful ways, and is a lot less invasive than some other measures we took. The tests do have some false negatives but tend to be accurate over time with repeated usage like you get from daily usage.

[Mistwell]

We should have spent a lot more money on making tests easily available, particularly the home tests.

What the fuck for, when the tests are utter horseshit? The PCR test (the "gold standard" they said) can't tell the difference between covid, influenza, norovirus or a dozen other pathogens. Nor can it tell whether the virus is active or dead.

The LFT is even less accurate. It's a scam, a way of fleecing the public purse of millions for something that is useless.

Look dude, very few give a shit what insane belief you have on a day to day basis based on some bullshit you read on some random website which happens to match your nutcase mindset that day. Be it a conspiracy theory antisemetic site to the world socialist site, as long as it agrees with your lunatic conspiracy view that day you're all for spreading that nonsense to any who will listen. And I'll tell yah buddy, few are listening to your rantings anymore with much more than a shrug or a laugh or an eyeroll.

[jhkim]

Ratman - I'm unsure of your position. Previously you said about the covid vaccines,

I'm againt the covid vaccines because they rolled them out in less than a year, bypassed the approval process with 'emergency use authorization', and then pushed them on as many people as possible while intentionally supressing any investigation into side effects as being "anti-vaxx".

Over the past two years, my trust in government, the scientific, pharmecutical, and media organizations went from "low" to "fuck no, and why aren't you in jail?"

But just now, you said:

As soon as the information started coming in that it was only somewhat more deadly than the flu, we weren't looking at the next Plauge or Ebola, and that people with existing health conditions and the elderly were most suceptible, we should have lifted all restrictions and let people manage their own risks. Operation Warp Speed was acceptable as a purely voluntary measure to get a vaccine out quickly for those who wanted it, while other treatments were investigated and a long term study of the new vaccines was put into place.

Have you changed your position on the rollout via Operation Warp Speed? It sounded in the prior post that you were highly critical of the emergency authorization. Do you consider the vaccines and boosters safe now?

I highlighted the two contrasting points between Ratman's posts.  It made sense to me, but I know you sometimes have trouble with English...  (Ratman can feel free to correct me if my interpretation is wrong)

It is clear that Ratman is opposed to vaccine mandates. However, in his initial post, he also sounded like he was opposed to the approval process that declared the vaccines safe to use. Your highlighting is in black - I added highlighting in red of this post.

However, his second post said that he was fine with the vaccine approval process as long as it was voluntary to take them.

The question is about whether the approval and rollout of the vaccines was responsible.

[Ratman_tf]

Ratman - I'm unsure of your position. Previously you said about the covid vaccines,

I'm againt the covid vaccines because they rolled them out in less than a year, bypassed the approval process with 'emergency use authorization', and then pushed them on as many people as possible while intentionally supressing any investigation into side effects as being "anti-vaxx".

Over the past two years, my trust in government, the scientific, pharmecutical, and media organizations went from "low" to "fuck no, and why aren't you in jail?"

But just now, you said:

As soon as the information started coming in that it was only somewhat more deadly than the flu, we weren't looking at the next Plauge or Ebola, and that people with existing health conditions and the elderly were most suceptible, we should have lifted all restrictions and let people manage their own risks. Operation Warp Speed was acceptable as a purely voluntary measure to get a vaccine out quickly for those who wanted it, while other treatments were investigated and a long term study of the new vaccines was put into place.

Have you changed your position on the rollout via Operation Warp Speed? It sounded in the prior post that you were highly critical of the emergency authorization. Do you consider the vaccines and boosters safe now?

I highlighted the two contrasting points between Ratman's posts.  It made sense to me, but I know you sometimes have trouble with English...  (Ratman can feel free to correct me if my interpretation is wrong)

It is clear that Ratman is opposed to vaccine mandates. However, in his initial post, he also sounded like he was opposed to the approval process that declared the vaccines safe to use. Your highlighting is in black - I added highlighting in red of this post.

However, his second post said that he was fine with the vaccine approval process as long as it was voluntary to take them.

The question is about whether the approval and rollout of the vaccines was responsible.

Sorry for the confusion. My thoughts have changed as the situation developed.

At first, I was ok with the approval process because I trusted the CDC to be at least somewhat reliable in their evaluations, if for any reason just to keep the trust of the public.

As the vaccines were rolled out, and the agencies involved got pretty cagey I got concerned about their responsibility for the vaccines safety and efficacy. Still, as long as taking the vaccines was optional, I could opt out and hope more people would speak out about their concerns.

Now, that trust has been shattered and in hindsight, Operation Warp Speed was a mistake.

Who knows what tomorrow may bring? My suspicion, and it remains just a suspicion for now, is that adverse side effects from the vaccines are going to be more severe and widespread than the public has been told, and that this will come out slowly over the course of years, so that the agencies responsible can slowly form narratives, backtrack, and shift blame around.