Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.

[Kiero]

Delta didn't give much of a shit about the jab either. Omicron isn't the first variant to bypass it.

[oggsmash]

Delta didn't give much of a shit about the jab either. Omicron isn't the first variant to bypass it.

  I was talking more specifically about lessening symptoms.  I did not read or hear much about the difference in symptoms with delta, but it of course ignored "immunity" or "protection", Omicron seems to have cut through the imaginary "protection" at a higher rate, and it seems your symptoms are pretty much the same intensity vaxx or no vaxx.

[Kiero]

I was talking more specifically about lessening symptoms.  I did not read or hear much about the difference in symptoms with delta, but it of course ignored "immunity" or "protection", Omicron seems to have cut through the imaginary "protection" at a higher rate, and it seems your symptoms are pretty much the same intensity vaxx or no vaxx.

It did, but Omicron is even lesser than Delta was. So "protection" is irrelevant when the symptoms are basically a bad cold. Pretty difficult to lessen that any more.

[Zirunel]

And incidentally, regarding "from covid" vs. "with covid":
He pointed to an "Incidental Covid-19 Report" published this week by the Massachusetts Department of Health, which showed 49.5% of the state's Covid-19 patients were hospitalized due to "primary" Covid infections, while 50.5% patients tested positive after being hospitalized for other reasons.

The backpedalling is strong here in British Columbia as well.  Just last week they revealed that 60% of "hopsitalizations with covid" were actually in hospital for something else and happened to test positive sometime during their visit.

This is something we keep hearing, that the "with Covid" vs. "of Covid" is a distinction that has been deliberately hidden from us. Now I do realize that different jurisdictions do differ widely in how they report things, but around here, the numbers are broken down pretty clearly every day.

So yesterday for example reported hospitalizations (total, not new that day) were 369:

95 hospitalized as a result of COVID-19 and being treated in a unit designated for such cases. These are your "of covid" cases.

135 people in hospital who were admitted for another reason and tested positive for COVID-19 on admission. These are "with Covid" cases, and

139 people who contracted the virus after being admitted to hospital for other reasons. These are also "with Covid" cases

The numbers change daily, and sometimes patients "with" Covid later become patients "of" Covid. As you'd expect.

Overall though, at least for this wave, it's generally 30% of patients with Covid who are actually hospitalized  because of Covid.

[oggsmash]

I was talking more specifically about lessening symptoms.  I did not read or hear much about the difference in symptoms with delta, but it of course ignored "immunity" or "protection", Omicron seems to have cut through the imaginary "protection" at a higher rate, and it seems your symptoms are pretty much the same intensity vaxx or no vaxx.

It did, but Omicron is even lesser than Delta was. So "protection" is irrelevant when the symptoms are basically a bad cold. Pretty difficult to lessen that any more.

  Omicron is a bit worse than a bad cold, but I would not put it at Flu level.  I say this after 4 of us got it.  With varying results.  But I also would not say in any way shape or form was it in the same zip code as a possible hospitalization.

[Ratman_tf]

  I think it is important to remember the history of this vaccine propaganda.  It started with a pretty iron clad level of protection as stated by Fauci that would end the spread.  That was repeated ad nausem by media corporations BROUGHT TO YOU BY PFIZER.  Then we had "break through" cases, and the definition of vaccine was changed.  Then "break through" became, "You have a MUCH lower chance to be hospitalized" from a virus that has about a 1 percent chance of putting you in the hospital.  Then we hear you need a booster, to not keep you from getting or spreading it of course, but from dying or causing gun shot victims or people in car crashes to die from tying up hospital beds.    And now, with Omicron, we will need a super special vaccine for just that (even as another variant is coming, so by the time Omicron is in people, they will be getting yet a new variant that cuts right through that vaxx like Omicron did) that of course Pfizer is slapping together at record speed. 

     If you are the sort that has always accepted the words of your betters and do as you are told, so be it.   If you think you want what is presented as "death insurance" by getting the vaxx, so be it.  But the endless bullshit about stopping the spread, protecting your neighbor, blah, blah, blah at this point is clap trap.  Your body, your choice.

Exactly. Backtracking on what the vaccine is even supposed to do for people is bogglingly blatant spin, but some people eat it up.

[Pat]

I've come to the conclusion that if you're a regulator, you should be banned for life from the industry you regulate. Same with politicians, which would have the added bonus of discouraging overly broad laws, because if you micromanage everything you'll never work again.

[oggsmash]

  I think it is important to remember the history of this vaccine propaganda.  It started with a pretty iron clad level of protection as stated by Fauci that would end the spread.  That was repeated ad nausem by media corporations BROUGHT TO YOU BY PFIZER.  Then we had "break through" cases, and the definition of vaccine was changed.  Then "break through" became, "You have a MUCH lower chance to be hospitalized" from a virus that has about a 1 percent chance of putting you in the hospital.  Then we hear you need a booster, to not keep you from getting or spreading it of course, but from dying or causing gun shot victims or people in car crashes to die from tying up hospital beds.    And now, with Omicron, we will need a super special vaccine for just that (even as another variant is coming, so by the time Omicron is in people, they will be getting yet a new variant that cuts right through that vaxx like Omicron did) that of course Pfizer is slapping together at record speed. 

     If you are the sort that has always accepted the words of your betters and do as you are told, so be it.   If you think you want what is presented as "death insurance" by getting the vaxx, so be it.  But the endless bullshit about stopping the spread, protecting your neighbor, blah, blah, blah at this point is clap trap.  Your body, your choice.

Exactly. Backtracking on what the vaccine is even supposed to do for people is bogglingly blatant spin, but some people eat it up.

   Yeah, at this juncture it is pretty hard to justify people who are following what looks to be religious dogma at this point.   March 2020 I could understand trying to listen to the "leaders".  But now...that we see alot of them knew where this came from at the beginning, knew what they know?  I mean how much can I allow someone to lie to me, and then decide to start trusting them.  We also know now the story didnt change because we "learned more", we know these fuckers just lied, for various reasons and agendas.

[Pat]

  I think it is important to remember the history of this vaccine propaganda.  It started with a pretty iron clad level of protection as stated by Fauci that would end the spread.  That was repeated ad nausem by media corporations BROUGHT TO YOU BY PFIZER.  Then we had "break through" cases, and the definition of vaccine was changed.  Then "break through" became, "You have a MUCH lower chance to be hospitalized" from a virus that has about a 1 percent chance of putting you in the hospital.  Then we hear you need a booster, to not keep you from getting or spreading it of course, but from dying or causing gun shot victims or people in car crashes to die from tying up hospital beds.    And now, with Omicron, we will need a super special vaccine for just that (even as another variant is coming, so by the time Omicron is in people, they will be getting yet a new variant that cuts right through that vaxx like Omicron did) that of course Pfizer is slapping together at record speed. 

     If you are the sort that has always accepted the words of your betters and do as you are told, so be it.   If you think you want what is presented as "death insurance" by getting the vaxx, so be it.  But the endless bullshit about stopping the spread, protecting your neighbor, blah, blah, blah at this point is clap trap.  Your body, your choice.

Exactly. Backtracking on what the vaccine is even supposed to do for people is bogglingly blatant spin, but some people eat it up.

   Yeah, at this juncture it is pretty hard to justify people who are following what looks to be religious dogma at this point.   March 2020 I could understand trying to listen to the "leaders".  But now...that we see alot of them knew where this came from at the beginning, knew what they know?  I mean how much can I allow someone to lie to me, and then decide to start trusting them.  We also know now the story didnt change because we "learned more", we know these fuckers just lied, for various reasons and agendas.

We've also legitimately learned more, and it's had zero effect on policy. For instance, there was good evidence in early 2020 that covid-19 was highly aerosolized, and not primarily spread through large droplets. But it was pushing against conventional wisdom, and an overly binary consensus scientific model. But the evidence became overwhelming by the end of the year. While the CDC was incredibly slow to recognize this, even they acknowledged this on their own website, in April 2021. But they didn't change their recommendations, even though the mitigation measures for droplets and tiny aerosolized particles are very different.

[GeekyBugle]

I've come to the conclusion that if you're a regulator, you should be banned for life from the industry you regulate. Same with politicians, which would have the added bonus of discouraging overly broad laws, because if you micromanage everything you'll never work again.

I agree.

[3catcircus]

  I think it is important to remember the history of this vaccine propaganda.  It started with a pretty iron clad level of protection as stated by Fauci that would end the spread.  That was repeated ad nausem by media corporations BROUGHT TO YOU BY PFIZER.  Then we had "break through" cases, and the definition of vaccine was changed.  Then "break through" became, "You have a MUCH lower chance to be hospitalized" from a virus that has about a 1 percent chance of putting you in the hospital.  Then we hear you need a booster, to not keep you from getting or spreading it of course, but from dying or causing gun shot victims or people in car crashes to die from tying up hospital beds.    And now, with Omicron, we will need a super special vaccine for just that (even as another variant is coming, so by the time Omicron is in people, they will be getting yet a new variant that cuts right through that vaxx like Omicron did) that of course Pfizer is slapping together at record speed. 

     If you are the sort that has always accepted the words of your betters and do as you are told, so be it.   If you think you want what is presented as "death insurance" by getting the vaxx, so be it.  But the endless bullshit about stopping the spread, protecting your neighbor, blah, blah, blah at this point is clap trap.  Your body, your choice.

Exactly. Backtracking on what the vaccine is even supposed to do for people is bogglingly blatant spin, but some people eat it up.

   Yeah, at this juncture it is pretty hard to justify people who are following what looks to be religious dogma at this point.   March 2020 I could understand trying to listen to the "leaders".  But now...that we see alot of them knew where this came from at the beginning, knew what they know?  I mean how much can I allow someone to lie to me, and then decide to start trusting them.  We also know now the story didnt change because we "learned more", we know these fuckers just lied, for various reasons and agendas.

We've also legitimately learned more, and it's had zero effect on policy. For instance, there was good evidence in early 2020 that covid-19 was highly aerosolized, and not primarily spread through large droplets. But it was pushing against conventional wisdom, and an overly binary consensus scientific model. But the evidence became overwhelming by the end of the year. While the CDC was incredibly slow to recognize this, even they acknowledged this on their own website, in April 2021. But they didn't change their recommendations, even though the mitigation measures for droplets and tiny aerosolized particles are very different.

We may have learned more, but the active suppression of inconvenient information is unforgivable.  For example, we've known *for decades* that masks worn outside of a clinical setting by personnel trained in their use do fuck-all for airborne respiratory viruses, but those studies were ignored or minimized so that "the authorities" could be seen to be "doing something." Being forced to admit that there isn't much that can be done would be seen as "leader and medical experts = totally ineffectual.". That is, why are you wasting time and money engaging in medical theater, when you'll just have ride it out, with some people dying until the virus mutates into an endemic form.  Lockdowns, masks, and vaccines will be shown to have done nothing except to prolong the pandemic.

[oggsmash]

  I think it is important to remember the history of this vaccine propaganda.  It started with a pretty iron clad level of protection as stated by Fauci that would end the spread.  That was repeated ad nausem by media corporations BROUGHT TO YOU BY PFIZER.  Then we had "break through" cases, and the definition of vaccine was changed.  Then "break through" became, "You have a MUCH lower chance to be hospitalized" from a virus that has about a 1 percent chance of putting you in the hospital.  Then we hear you need a booster, to not keep you from getting or spreading it of course, but from dying or causing gun shot victims or people in car crashes to die from tying up hospital beds.    And now, with Omicron, we will need a super special vaccine for just that (even as another variant is coming, so by the time Omicron is in people, they will be getting yet a new variant that cuts right through that vaxx like Omicron did) that of course Pfizer is slapping together at record speed. 

     If you are the sort that has always accepted the words of your betters and do as you are told, so be it.   If you think you want what is presented as "death insurance" by getting the vaxx, so be it.  But the endless bullshit about stopping the spread, protecting your neighbor, blah, blah, blah at this point is clap trap.  Your body, your choice.

Exactly. Backtracking on what the vaccine is even supposed to do for people is bogglingly blatant spin, but some people eat it up.

   Yeah, at this juncture it is pretty hard to justify people who are following what looks to be religious dogma at this point.   March 2020 I could understand trying to listen to the "leaders".  But now...that we see alot of them knew where this came from at the beginning, knew what they know?  I mean how much can I allow someone to lie to me, and then decide to start trusting them.  We also know now the story didnt change because we "learned more", we know these fuckers just lied, for various reasons and agendas.

We've also legitimately learned more, and it's had zero effect on policy. For instance, there was good evidence in early 2020 that covid-19 was highly aerosolized, and not primarily spread through large droplets. But it was pushing against conventional wisdom, and an overly binary consensus scientific model. But the evidence became overwhelming by the end of the year. While the CDC was incredibly slow to recognize this, even they acknowledged this on their own website, in April 2021. But they didn't change their recommendations, even though the mitigation measures for droplets and tiny aerosolized particles are very different.

  Which is my point, lying at every turn, including lies by omission, makes any narrative of "learning more" sound like a lie.  Taiwan reported it was airborne in Jan 2020, and not droplets.  I guess the shit heads needed to make every dime they could from hand sanitizer first.   But I also need to add...I think you are giving too much credit at this point as to what we "learned",  these fucks knew exactly what they were cooking up in the lab, and what it was meant to do.  That was not some discovery as to transmission by them, that was discovered by others (and inconveniently early it seems) so forgive me for not giving any sort of credence to any "new information" just because it gets released as if it is new.

[SHARK]

Greetings!

It's so amazing to watch all the wormy fucks jump through their mental and verbal gymnastics to avoid admitting the truth--

The government and medical authorities have been lying all along, every step of the way, and have been fucking you in the ass with authoritarian power-grabs and tyranny.

Just admit it. The elites have been using you as a cum rag and treating you like stupid fucking sheep.

Get on your knees, shut up, and believe the science!

As they fuck you in the ass and impose all kinds of tyranny everywhere in society.

Fucking morons.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

[Mistwell]

If anyone's interested:
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e1.htm

New study that compares hospitalization rates among those who are vaccinated, who had a previous infection, or who had no protection at all. It's an early release, but by all reports seems to be a pretty solid study, controlling for all relevant factors. What's interesting is that it's by the CDC, and published by them, and ends up strongly supporting natural immunity. Here's the key graph:



That big blue line that makes a big peak then a smaller one across the middle of the graph? Those are the people with no previous exposure. If you haven't been vaccinated or caught covid-19 before, there's a significant risk of hospitalization.

The most interesting part is the lines at the bottom. You see the clump of nearly straight lines just barely above the y-axis? That's everyone else. If you've had the jab or the disease, your chances of hospitalization are really low, almost flatlined. And the natural immunity line is below the vaccinated line, meaning natural immunity works better than the vax. Previous exposure plus vaccination is better, but the two lines are almost on top of each other, so the vax doesn't add much to natural immunity.

I think this the first time the CDC has admitted the efficacy of natural immunity when it comes to covid-19.

I am shocked, simply shocked, at Kiero's lack of response to this.

[Pat]

We've also legitimately learned more, and it's had zero effect on policy. For instance, there was good evidence in early 2020 that covid-19 was highly aerosolized, and not primarily spread through large droplets. But it was pushing against conventional wisdom, and an overly binary consensus scientific model. But the evidence became overwhelming by the end of the year. While the CDC was incredibly slow to recognize this, even they acknowledged this on their own website, in April 2021. But they didn't change their recommendations, even though the mitigation measures for droplets and tiny aerosolized particles are very different.

  Which is my point, lying at every turn, including lies by omission, makes any narrative of "learning more" sound like a lie.  Taiwan reported it was airborne in Jan 2020, and not droplets.  I guess the shit heads needed to make every dime they could from hand sanitizer first.   But I also need to add...I think you are giving too much credit at this point as to what we "learned",  these fucks knew exactly what they were cooking up in the lab, and what it was meant to do.  That was not some discovery as to transmission by them, that was discovered by others (and inconveniently early it seems) so forgive me for not giving any sort of credence to any "new information" just because it gets released as if it is new.

My point is the flip side of yours. You were emphasizing that they've been claiming their recommendations changed due to some "new information", when in fact there was no new information. I emphasized that even when there is legitimate new information that should upend existing policies, it often leads to no changes in their recommendations.

And I'm pretty sure many of the people involved had no idea what was going on with the Wuhan funding. There's too much evidence that those involved tried to obscure their tracks. I also reject the idea that they were competent enough to know all the consequences of their actions. This sounds more like hubris, echo chambers, and entitlement than some grand plan.

And specifically about aerosolization, you're overlooking the fact that in early 2020 the prevailing model of how respiratory diseases were transmitted was very binary. Either a disease was aerosolized, or it wasn't. Covid-19 was initially believed not to be aerosolized, which meant it could be be blocked by sneezing into an elbow or wearing a barrier on your face. But in truth, aerosolization is a spectrum, with no respiratory disease being either/or.

And it quickly became evident that covid-19 was far down on the spectrum. For instance, there were several cases from China where people were infected by someone who was not in their line of sight (one example was someone in the front of a bus infecting someone in the back -- which was verified by security footage). Another widely publicized example were the tests of air in the hospital ventilation systems, where airborne viral particles were detected hours and even days later.

What's remarkable is how long the information was ignored, instead of being contested as is normal in the scientific process where new ideas are hammered at to see if they hold up or break. And even when it was accepted, that it didn't lead to any policy changes.