Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.

[Ratman_tf]

Weird. I'm one of the "jabbed" yet I've never had Covid. My immune system must just be better than yours...or perhaps the vaccine is working well for me.

This is stupid. There are a ton of people jabbed and still got infected. My dad had to take respiratory meds for a while after being infected, and he was double jabbed and this was before omicron or delta.
So I can see that the disease is bad and hurts some people pretty badly, but to be blaming the unvaxed for something the vaccine doesn't do very well itself is dumb.

At the same time, the disease can have worse reactions with some people more then the flue normally does. So its not completly harmless.

I agree that many people were vaccinated and still got sick. I had a friend in my church who got covid after vaccination in the fall, and also my girlfriend's ex-husband just this week. However, it is possible that the vaccines somewhat reduce the chance of infection and transmission -- while not preventing them.

A lot of things are possible. I want to know what is likely in the face of government and media pushing a vaccine not even a year old on the entire population, including very young children who likey don't need it.

A vaccine that many are pushing to make mandatory in order to work, shop and otherwise live a "normal" life.

[jhkim]

However, it is possible that the vaccines somewhat reduce the chance of infection and transmission -- while not preventing them.

A lot of things are possible. I want to know what is likely in the face of government and media pushing a vaccine not even a year old on the entire population, including very young children who likey don't need it.

A vaccine that many are pushing to make mandatory in order to work, shop and otherwise live a "normal" life.

As far as government propaganda and mandates --

I'd draw an analogy to 9/11. I was opposed to Al Qaeda and the Taliban well before 9/11, back when it was mostly liberal hand-wringers who complained about the Taliban oppressing women and blowing up Buddhist statues. Then 9/11 happened, and the U.S. government started massive action against them. I still opposed Al Qaeda and the Taliban, and I supported action against them. However, I also opposed the Patriot Act that suppressed our civil liberties, and I opposed the Iraq War that had nothing to do with Al Qaeda. I think the government was overreaching and acting irresponsibly in those cases, but I still supported action against Al Qaeda and the Taliban.

What the government wants is not the same as what is correct. However, it also isn't always opposed.

With covid-19, I want to do what's best for people generally. I take information especially from people that I know who have a medical background, including my own doctor. Based on their input, I think this is an extremely serious disease, and I want to do my part not to spread it around. Given that this is still killing over a thousand every day in the U.S. alone and millions world-wide, I don't necessarily expect life to be back to normal in a year or for there to be a simple fix-all.

[3catcircus]

However, it is possible that the vaccines somewhat reduce the chance of infection and transmission -- while not preventing them.

A lot of things are possible. I want to know what is likely in the face of government and media pushing a vaccine not even a year old on the entire population, including very young children who likey don't need it.

A vaccine that many are pushing to make mandatory in order to work, shop and otherwise live a "normal" life.

As far as government propaganda and mandates --

I'd draw an analogy to 9/11. I was opposed to Al Qaeda and the Taliban well before 9/11, back when it was mostly liberal hand-wringers who complained about the Taliban oppressing women and blowing up Buddhist statues. Then 9/11 happened, and the U.S. government started massive action against them. I still opposed Al Qaeda and the Taliban, and I supported action against them. However, I also opposed the Patriot Act that suppressed our civil liberties, and I opposed the Iraq War that had nothing to do with Al Qaeda. I think the government was overreaching and acting irresponsibly in those cases, but I still supported action against Al Qaeda and the Taliban.

What the government wants is not the same as what is correct. However, it also isn't always opposed.

With covid-19, I want to do what's best for people generally. I take information especially from people that I know who have a medical background, including my own doctor. Based on their input, I think this is an extremely serious disease, and I want to do my part not to spread it around. Given that this is still killing over a thousand every day in the U.S. alone and millions world-wide, I don't necessarily expect life to be back to normal in a year or for there to be a simple fix-all.

Here's the problem: for most people, it *isn't* a serious disease. For the frail, the immune compromised, it is - and that is no different than any other virus (ask cystic fibrosis sufferers whether or not they want to get a plain old chest cold...)

What makes this serious for more people than the flu is that fat people are more susceptible to serious complications - and the western world has a lot of fat people. Most of them consider themselves to be in "good" health.  They're not.  I'm older. I'm fat. I have blood pressure I take meds for. I have sleep apnea I use a CPAP for.  For me, getting a vaccine makes sense because covid risks are greater than vaccine risks.  My brother-in-law is 2 years younger but in excellent health as a military officer. He got covid before there was a vaccine. It took almost 10 months for him to be cleared medically due to myocarditis. A high school or college athlete? They're in outstanding shape, white healthy, and more at risk from vaccine complications than COVID - with a not- insignificant risk of vaccine induced myocarditis.

[Kiero]

Given that this is still killing over a thousand every day in the U.S. alone and millions world-wide, I don't necessarily expect life to be back to normal in a year or for there to be a simple fix-all.

No it isn't, this is the foundation of this entire scam. Because it is a scam. Dead within 28/60 days of a positive PCR test is not "dead from coronavirus". It's a bullshit, new, made-up measure of classification that didn't exist before 2020.

Over 95% of people who died "with" coronavirus actually died from something else, one of their multiple co-morbidities. The presence of covid was incidental, not instrumental.

If there was a huge surge of excess deaths caused by a pandemic, they'd show up in the all-cause mortality stats. Except they barely uptick in 2020, because all that's really happened is a large number of deaths from other causes were all reclassified as "covid deaths".

Here's the problem: for most people, it *isn't* a serious disease. For the frail, the immune compromised, it is - and that is no different than any other virus (ask cystic fibrosis sufferers whether or not they want to get a plain old chest cold...)

What makes this serious for more people than the flu is that fat people are more susceptible to serious complications - and the western world has a lot of fat people. Most of them consider themselves to be in "good" health.  They're not.  I'm older. I'm fat. I have blood pressure I take meds for. I have sleep apnea I use a CPAP for.  For me, getting a vaccine makes sense because covid risks are greater than vaccine risks.  My brother-in-law is 2 years younger but in excellent health as a military officer. He got covid before there was a vaccine. It took almost 10 months for him to be cleared medically due to myocarditis. A high school or college athlete? They're in outstanding shape, white healthy, and more at risk from vaccine complications than COVID - with a not- insignificant risk of vaccine induced myocarditis.

The jab is a much more serious risk for younger and healthier people. Notice all the sportsmen and women who keep dying? Or getting permanent heart damage that forces their retirement? There's an implication the damage done is accelerated by their fitness.

I'm over 40, but in excellent health. I exercise every day, I don't smoke, drink alcohol or eat crap. The impacts of this on athletes are far more relevant to me than all the 80-somethings, who's immune response is barely measurable, but are "fine". And I've now had covid three times with little consequence, with a shorter period of illness each time.

[jhkim]

Given that this is still killing over a thousand every day in the U.S. alone and millions world-wide, I don't necessarily expect life to be back to normal in a year or for there to be a simple fix-all.

No it isn't, this is the foundation of this entire scam. Because it is a scam. Dead within 28/60 days of a positive PCR test is not "dead from coronavirus". It's a bullshit, new, made-up measure of classification that didn't exist before 2020.

Over 95% of people who died "with" coronavirus actually died from something else, one of their multiple co-morbidities. The presence of covid was incidental, not instrumental.

If there was a huge surge of excess deaths caused by a pandemic, they'd show up in the all-cause mortality stats. Except they barely uptick in 2020, because all that's really happened is a large number of deaths from other causes were all reclassified as "covid deaths".

I've looked at the all-cause mortality stats, and they appear consistent. Here's the CDC page that looks at all-cause mortality, for example.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

But it's not just the U.S. CDC. Every state from New York to Texas have reported similar stats. This requires not just massive fraud from thousands of health professionals within the U.S., but also unprecedented international cooperation between radically different countries to all agree to mock up their mortality statistics similarly. Here is an international comparison, for example:


Source: https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

I could believe that one country's official stats were inaccurate. I don't buy that dozens of countries have all agreed to shift stats over 20 times higher than reality. That would be obvious to tens of thousands of professionals who work with those numbers everywhere.

[Ratman_tf]

However, it is possible that the vaccines somewhat reduce the chance of infection and transmission -- while not preventing them.

A lot of things are possible. I want to know what is likely in the face of government and media pushing a vaccine not even a year old on the entire population, including very young children who likey don't need it.

A vaccine that many are pushing to make mandatory in order to work, shop and otherwise live a "normal" life.

As far as government propaganda and mandates --

I'd draw an analogy to 9/11. I was opposed to Al Qaeda and the Taliban well before 9/11, back when it was mostly liberal hand-wringers who complained about the Taliban oppressing women and blowing up Buddhist statues. Then 9/11 happened, and the U.S. government started massive action against them. I still opposed Al Qaeda and the Taliban, and I supported action against them. However, I also opposed the Patriot Act that suppressed our civil liberties, and I opposed the Iraq War that had nothing to do with Al Qaeda. I think the government was overreaching and acting irresponsibly in those cases, but I still supported action against Al Qaeda and the Taliban.

What the government wants is not the same as what is correct. However, it also isn't always opposed.

With covid-19, I want to do what's best for people generally. I take information especially from people that I know who have a medical background, including my own doctor. Based on their input, I think this is an extremely serious disease, and I want to do my part not to spread it around. Given that this is still killing over a thousand every day in the U.S. alone and millions world-wide, I don't necessarily expect life to be back to normal in a year or for there to be a simple fix-all.

Considering how governments and the media have handled the situation so far, I don't think life will ever return to "normal", and that any fixes will be incompetent, half assed and potentially dangerous.

The past year and a half has destroyed what little confidence I had in the government, media, the scientific community and medical professionals. I hope they all rot in hell.

[3catcircus]

However, it is possible that the vaccines somewhat reduce the chance of infection and transmission -- while not preventing them.

A lot of things are possible. I want to know what is likely in the face of government and media pushing a vaccine not even a year old on the entire population, including very young children who likey don't need it.

A vaccine that many are pushing to make mandatory in order to work, shop and otherwise live a "normal" life.

As far as government propaganda and mandates --

I'd draw an analogy to 9/11. I was opposed to Al Qaeda and the Taliban well before 9/11, back when it was mostly liberal hand-wringers who complained about the Taliban oppressing women and blowing up Buddhist statues. Then 9/11 happened, and the U.S. government started massive action against them. I still opposed Al Qaeda and the Taliban, and I supported action against them. However, I also opposed the Patriot Act that suppressed our civil liberties, and I opposed the Iraq War that had nothing to do with Al Qaeda. I think the government was overreaching and acting irresponsibly in those cases, but I still supported action against Al Qaeda and the Taliban.

What the government wants is not the same as what is correct. However, it also isn't always opposed.

With covid-19, I want to do what's best for people generally. I take information especially from people that I know who have a medical background, including my own doctor. Based on their input, I think this is an extremely serious disease, and I want to do my part not to spread it around. Given that this is still killing over a thousand every day in the U.S. alone and millions world-wide, I don't necessarily expect life to be back to normal in a year or for there to be a simple fix-all.

Considering how governments and the media have handled the situation so far, I don't think life will ever return to "normal", and that any fixes will be incompetent, half assed and potentially dangerous.

The past year and a half has destroyed what little confidence I had in the government, media, the scientific community and medical professionals. I hope they all rot in hell.

It took you that long to recognize that society is on the cusp of collapse (and has been for a very long time) because of the mediocrity and incompetence that passes for government and industry "expertise?" The vast majority of those who are considered "experts," or "the foremost authority on" something are anything but.  They're all essentially the Theranos bitch grifting through their career and life. If politicians were qualified to govern or legislate, we'd have laws written such that an average 5 year old could understand them and there would never be fraud, waste, corruption or abuse in any government. The shitbag Ferguson at Imperial College has *never* produced a computer model that is accurate, yet the UK relied upon his doomsday scenarios. If Fauci was such an expert at virology, why didn't he figure out an AIDS vaccine (this is an interesting question since covid vaccines are kinda like the HIV drug cocktails - not curing, just ensuring a steady customer base)?

I think the what-if question that needs to be answered is - if we hadn't had lockdowns but had merely protected the vulnerable, would we have the same amount of overall deaths, but over the span of a year and been done with it?  In the past (1918, 1957, 1968, etc.) there were no lockdowns during pandemics and they naturally burned themselves out and become milder endemic seasonal viruses.

This panic over covid ignores that even rhinoviruses can result in death, per this paper: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/18/11/12-0607_article

Interesting that they were doing PCR in that study - to identify the pathogen, not to determine infection - what people have been saying for a long time regarding covid - a positive PCR in the absence of symptoms means nothing.

I'm betting that if we were to have tested during past cold and flu seasons to the extent we have for COVID, we'd discover a lot more "they died from pneumonia, they were old and sick" actually died from the common cold viruses.

Doesn't change the fact that, for a not-so-healthy person, getting the jab *reduces* risk - the same as they've done for flu. We just don't have any solid data to show how many people have gotten the flu asymptomatically or had a reduced severity over the years with comparison data showing vaccine injury rates to compare flu shots to covid shots (we've also never forced society as a whole to get flu shots).  I'm going to go out on a limb in stating that the true number of people who caught COVID is probably two orders of magnitude higher than the best official count, when you consider how many got it asymptomatically and how many had such mild symptoms that it was never counted.

Lastly, what the midwits in charge fail to realize - giving kids childhood vaccinations against diseases that have a high chance of death or disablement is primarily for the benefit of the child and is worth it to give them a chance at a future life - and it isn't the same as forcing them to take a shot so that an elderly or very ill person can live a few more months. 

[Ratman_tf]

However, it is possible that the vaccines somewhat reduce the chance of infection and transmission -- while not preventing them.

A lot of things are possible. I want to know what is likely in the face of government and media pushing a vaccine not even a year old on the entire population, including very young children who likey don't need it.

A vaccine that many are pushing to make mandatory in order to work, shop and otherwise live a "normal" life.

As far as government propaganda and mandates --

I'd draw an analogy to 9/11. I was opposed to Al Qaeda and the Taliban well before 9/11, back when it was mostly liberal hand-wringers who complained about the Taliban oppressing women and blowing up Buddhist statues. Then 9/11 happened, and the U.S. government started massive action against them. I still opposed Al Qaeda and the Taliban, and I supported action against them. However, I also opposed the Patriot Act that suppressed our civil liberties, and I opposed the Iraq War that had nothing to do with Al Qaeda. I think the government was overreaching and acting irresponsibly in those cases, but I still supported action against Al Qaeda and the Taliban.

What the government wants is not the same as what is correct. However, it also isn't always opposed.

With covid-19, I want to do what's best for people generally. I take information especially from people that I know who have a medical background, including my own doctor. Based on their input, I think this is an extremely serious disease, and I want to do my part not to spread it around. Given that this is still killing over a thousand every day in the U.S. alone and millions world-wide, I don't necessarily expect life to be back to normal in a year or for there to be a simple fix-all.

Considering how governments and the media have handled the situation so far, I don't think life will ever return to "normal", and that any fixes will be incompetent, half assed and potentially dangerous.

The past year and a half has destroyed what little confidence I had in the government, media, the scientific community and medical professionals. I hope they all rot in hell.

It took you that long to recognize that society is on the cusp of collapse (and has been for a very long time) because of the mediocrity and incompetence that passes for government and industry "expertise?"

Depends on what you mean by "collapse".

[Mistwell]

I am sure however we're all shocked you in particular tried to minimize the Nazis as "only active for a few years."

Honestly this type of bullshit is extremely pathetic. You aren't willing to accept or admit that the premises of the measures we're seeing are not grounded in sound science, ethical medical practice, or reasonable powers of governance, so you're just going to continuously try to make personal attacks. Worthless.

Dude who routinely quotes from antisemitic sites he just happens to read also just tried to minimize the Nazis, and you are making a personal attack on me for pointing it out? Yeah, OK.

[Mistwell]

1932 to 1945 is not "a few years" and they were "active" for even more than those years (they were the second largest political party in Germany prior to becoming the first largest in 1932).

I am sure however we're all shocked you in particular tried to minimize the Nazis as "only active for a few years."

Fuck off. At least 100 million dead because of communism, but leftards forever memory hole the evil they've done and flip to "but what about the Nazis".

The Nazis were evil. I have Ashkenazi heritage, so fuck you with your attempt to paint me as a Nazi apologist.

Communists were even more evil and there are avowed Stalinists and other fellow travellers around today who think the only problem with their evil creed is that it just hasn't been done correctly.

You certainly won't see sympathy for communists from me. I'm pointing out you minimized Nazi power as "a few years" in the same way you minimize covid as "just a cold." Communists can be as bad or worse than Nazis while still acknowledging the Nazis held power for more than "a few years."

But again, you minimizing them, and then refusing to admit it wasn't "a few years" is in line with you routinely linking to sites which engage in anti-Jewish conspiracy theories. Something you've done repeatedly, and only offered even a feeble excuse for after Pundit insisted.

[Kiero]

You certainly won't see sympathy for communists from me. I'm pointing out you minimized Nazi power as "a few years" in the same way you minimize covid as "just a cold." Communists can be as bad or worse than Nazis while still acknowledging the Nazis held power for more than "a few years."

But again, you minimizing them, and then refusing to admit it wasn't "a few years" is in line with you routinely linking to sites which engage in anti-Jewish conspiracy theories. Something you've done repeatedly, and only offered even a feeble excuse for after Pundit insisted.

The communists were worse, and have many people around today advocating for their ideology. Lots of them in academia indoctrinating children and young people. The Long March through the institutions has reached it's culmination, identity politics and wokery is communism.

Meanwhile, no one treats Nazi ideology seriously. There are no mainstream voices anywhere advocating for their aims. I think I know which one is the more material threat.

And yes, it's a few years compared to decades of communist activity through the 20th century, and still counting in China.

[Mistwell]

You certainly won't see sympathy for communists from me. I'm pointing out you minimized Nazi power as "a few years" in the same way you minimize covid as "just a cold." Communists can be as bad or worse than Nazis while still acknowledging the Nazis held power for more than "a few years."

But again, you minimizing them, and then refusing to admit it wasn't "a few years" is in line with you routinely linking to sites which engage in anti-Jewish conspiracy theories. Something you've done repeatedly, and only offered even a feeble excuse for after Pundit insisted.

The communists were worse, and have many people around today advocating for their ideology. Lots of them in academia indoctrinating children and young people. The Long March through the institutions has reached it's culmination, identity politics and wokery is communism.

Meanwhile, no one treats Nazi ideology seriously. There are no mainstream voices anywhere advocating for their aims. I think I know which one is the more material threat.

And yes, it's a few years compared to decades of communist activity through the 20th century, and still counting in China.

I agree with you that communism today is a much larger threat to civilization than nazism today. This, despite some places in the media trying to spin small numbers of white supremacists as being much larger in numbers than they really are. Fortunately I think the hardest core communist nations are slowly but surely falling as well. Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea, I can see all being more "ordinary" socialist nations in this upcoming generation. And I am not saying I like "ordinary" socialist nations, just that they tend to murder people far less often than hardcore communist ones.

As for China, I think we fucked up. In fact I blame Trump for a lot of that fuck up, and I blame Biden for continuing a lot of Trumps fuck ups, with regard to China. Massively increasing trade with China was in fact spreading US culture throughout China and creating a real Chinese middle class which didn't like the suppression of freedoms which comes with communism. Then we started a trade war with them which played right into the hands of the Communist party in China and allowed them to regain some powers they were losing. It was an incredibly stupid move which has turned China back more towards the direction of hardcore Communism and away from the more "ordinary" socialism they might have been heading towards.

And that trade war, more than anything else, is the #1 reason why I don't like Trumpism. That aspect of Trumpism was not meaningfully different than the pro-union stances of prior Democrats who also wanted a trade war with China. It was short sighted, and didn't think about the total ramifications of such a trade dispute on the long term goals of our nation.

[3catcircus]

However, it is possible that the vaccines somewhat reduce the chance of infection and transmission -- while not preventing them.

A lot of things are possible. I want to know what is likely in the face of government and media pushing a vaccine not even a year old on the entire population, including very young children who likey don't need it.

A vaccine that many are pushing to make mandatory in order to work, shop and otherwise live a "normal" life.

As far as government propaganda and mandates --

I'd draw an analogy to 9/11. I was opposed to Al Qaeda and the Taliban well before 9/11, back when it was mostly liberal hand-wringers who complained about the Taliban oppressing women and blowing up Buddhist statues. Then 9/11 happened, and the U.S. government started massive action against them. I still opposed Al Qaeda and the Taliban, and I supported action against them. However, I also opposed the Patriot Act that suppressed our civil liberties, and I opposed the Iraq War that had nothing to do with Al Qaeda. I think the government was overreaching and acting irresponsibly in those cases, but I still supported action against Al Qaeda and the Taliban.

What the government wants is not the same as what is correct. However, it also isn't always opposed.

With covid-19, I want to do what's best for people generally. I take information especially from people that I know who have a medical background, including my own doctor. Based on their input, I think this is an extremely serious disease, and I want to do my part not to spread it around. Given that this is still killing over a thousand every day in the U.S. alone and millions world-wide, I don't necessarily expect life to be back to normal in a year or for there to be a simple fix-all.

Considering how governments and the media have handled the situation so far, I don't think life will ever return to "normal", and that any fixes will be incompetent, half assed and potentially dangerous.

The past year and a half has destroyed what little confidence I had in the government, media, the scientific community and medical professionals. I hope they all rot in hell.

It took you that long to recognize that society is on the cusp of collapse (and has been for a very long time) because of the mediocrity and incompetence that passes for government and industry "expertise?"

Depends on what you mean by "collapse".

I dunno. Declaring people to be whatever gender they feel like, in contravention of biological truth? Deciding that burning and looting minority-owned businesses in the name of racial equity? Teaching children to hate themselves? Increased grifting by politicians and tech charlatans to the point of doing it openly? Fighting tooth and nail to prevent election results audits while proclaiming them to be the most transparent ever? Lying to judges and withholding exculpatory evidence to put innocent people in jail? Destroying monuments that tell our history (good and bad,) in an attempt to rewrite it?Allowing immigrants to rewrite cultures of the nations they move to rather than taking them to assimilate (grooming gangs, no-go zones, etc.) Quid pro quo amongst politicians, bureaucrats, and the media to tell a tale instead of reporting facts as they exist. Fighting forever wars in brown people lands without actually intending to win, so that multinationals can earn another 12¢ on the stock next quarter and the favored local warlords can be paid off. The revolving door of industry, government, and lobbyists that ensures fraud waste and abuse are brushed under the rug. The inability for many people to write a coherent sentence, let alone a formal written letter. The preference for staring at social media or tv instead of reading a book. The demand for equal treatment of women, minorities, and special interests without demanding that they meet the same expectations as everyone else (or deciding that someone with a different opinion than your own has to be a racist or transphobe or anti-gay). The entitlement mentality amongst both the wealthy and those on government assistance. The over reliance on white collar careers, driving college attendance and the tuition inflation that comes with it, even as those same college educated but unable to get a job have no idea how to change a tire, replace a light switch, or hang drywall.  The ever fewer participants in charitable fraternal organizations (Elks, Shriners, etc.) and the reduction in participation in local government, attendance at organized religious services, and community engagement.

Pick your poison.

Fact of the matter is that society is collapsing around us and we don't recognize it - kinda like observing the light from a star, even as it has already burned its last.  Western societies would do well to return to 1950s attitudes towards DIY, what constitutes a successful career, the roles of men and women and the expectations of being citizens, even as we reject some of the difficult historical parts like racism, nepotism, and tolerance for corruption.

[Kiero]

What are the hypochondriacs who like testing themselves repeatedly going to do when they have to pay for LFTs?

This on the cover of tomorrow's Sunday Times:



Six more years of what? They can get fucked if they think I'm going along with this bollocks that long. They're not jabbing my kids ever, nor will I ever consent.

[Spinachcat]

Last week, we learned to be TERRIFIED of the new variant called FLURONA...

...but TODAY we have the DELTACRON upon us all!!!

Kneel to The Science you bitches and double mask your assholes!!

Only more government control of our lives can save us!!!