Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.

[HappyDaze]

For the third winter in a row, I have suspected covid (someone I've been in close proximity with tested positive with similar symptoms). 48 hours after it begun, it's on the way out with nothing more than paracetamol and ibuprofen. Yet again, no need for bed rest or anything out of the ordinary, besides suspension of exercise.

Killer viruses really aren't all they've cracked up to be.

So your aquired immunity isn't so good then.

[Shrieking Banshee]

What Im seeing is that its better then the worst projections, worse then just flu, and there just isn't a real solution at all.

[Daztur]

For the third winter in a row, I have suspected covid (someone I've been in close proximity with tested positive with similar symptoms). 48 hours after it begun, it's on the way out with nothing more than paracetamol and ibuprofen. Yet again, no need for bed rest or anything out of the ordinary, besides suspension of exercise.

Killer viruses really aren't all they've cracked up to be.

So your aquired immunity isn't so good then.

Which is worrying. The hope was that omicron would spread so fast that all of the idiots like Kiero would get it without killing too many people and we'd get to herd immunity that way. But if they keep on getting it over and over and over it'd be an annoying incubator of viral infections that'd hit old and immunocompromised people indefinitely.

Oh well, this is looking good for me personally. I have a pretty much a zero chance of dying from any variant of the virus even without vaccines but I really care about endurance sports and even a small hit to my lung capacity would be horrible. Omicron hitting my throat with my boosters up to date wouldn't have much chance of persistent symptoms like I worried about for delta in my lungs.

[dkabq]

For the third winter in a row, I have suspected covid (someone I've been in close proximity with tested positive with similar symptoms). 48 hours after it begun, it's on the way out with nothing more than paracetamol and ibuprofen. Yet again, no need for bed rest or anything out of the ordinary, besides suspension of exercise.

Killer viruses really aren't all they've cracked up to be.

So your aquired immunity isn't so good then.

Which is worrying. The hope was that omicron would spread so fast that all of the idiots like Kiero would get it without killing too many people and we'd get to herd immunity that way. But if they keep on getting it over and over and over it'd be an annoying incubator of viral infections that'd hit old and immunocompromised people indefinitely.

Oh well, this is looking good for me personally. I have a pretty much a zero chance of dying from any variant of the virus even without vaccines but I really care about endurance sports and even a small hit to my lung capacity would be horrible. Omicron hitting my throat with my boosters up to date wouldn't have much chance of persistent symptoms like I worried about for delta in my lungs.

Per St. Fauci himself, the vaccine does not stop transmission. Hence whether "all of the idiots like Kiero" get vaccinated or not has no impact on whether you get covid. Moreover, you being vaccinated does not stop you from getting covid (e.g., everyone in Gibraltar is vaccinated, but they still have covid cases), although it does help mitigate the symptoms. So, like the common cold, everybody, vaccinated or unvaccinated, is going to be getting covid over and over in the future.

As for herd immunity, it, like communism, is a red herring. Given covid's mutation rate, I doubt herd immunity is possible. You see the same thing with the flu.

[Pat]

For the third winter in a row, I have suspected covid (someone I've been in close proximity with tested positive with similar symptoms). 48 hours after it begun, it's on the way out with nothing more than paracetamol and ibuprofen. Yet again, no need for bed rest or anything out of the ordinary, besides suspension of exercise.

Killer viruses really aren't all they've cracked up to be.

So your aquired immunity isn't so good then.

Which is worrying. The hope was that omicron would spread so fast that all of the idiots like Kiero would get it without killing too many people and we'd get to herd immunity that way. But if they keep on getting it over and over and over it'd be an annoying incubator of viral infections that'd hit old and immunocompromised people indefinitely.

Oh well, this is looking good for me personally. I have a pretty much a zero chance of dying from any variant of the virus even without vaccines but I really care about endurance sports and even a small hit to my lung capacity would be horrible. Omicron hitting my throat with my boosters up to date wouldn't have much chance of persistent symptoms like I worried about for delta in my lungs.

Per St. Fauci himself, the vaccine does not stop transmission. Hence whether "all of the idiots like Kiero" get vaccinated or not has no impact on whether you get covid. Moreover, you being vaccinated does not stop you from getting covid (e.g., everyone in Gibraltar is vaccinated, but they still have covid cases), although it does help mitigate the symptoms. So, like the common cold, everybody, vaccinated or unvaccinated, is going to be getting covid over and over in the future.

As for herd immunity, it, like communism, is a red herring. Given covid's mutation rate, I doubt herd immunity is possible. You see the same thing with the flu.

Except we do have herd immunity with the flu. One of the many (many) problems with public health messaging is this idea that herd immunity means once you hit a certain percentage, the disease automatically goes extinct. But except in very rare cases, that's not how it works. Instead, it will follow cycles where the disease diminishes, then flares up again when immunity wanes and conditions are good (many seasonal diseases), or when it's introduced to a new population with no immunity, or even when a new generation is born and has to develop their own immunity. It gets even more complicated by diseases like the flu that mutate rapidly and thus are really a complex of diseases and can bypass immunity to various degrees, but herd immunity is messy and imperfect to begin with.

[dkabq]

For the third winter in a row, I have suspected covid (someone I've been in close proximity with tested positive with similar symptoms). 48 hours after it begun, it's on the way out with nothing more than paracetamol and ibuprofen. Yet again, no need for bed rest or anything out of the ordinary, besides suspension of exercise.

Killer viruses really aren't all they've cracked up to be.

So your aquired immunity isn't so good then.

Which is worrying. The hope was that omicron would spread so fast that all of the idiots like Kiero would get it without killing too many people and we'd get to herd immunity that way. But if they keep on getting it over and over and over it'd be an annoying incubator of viral infections that'd hit old and immunocompromised people indefinitely.

Oh well, this is looking good for me personally. I have a pretty much a zero chance of dying from any variant of the virus even without vaccines but I really care about endurance sports and even a small hit to my lung capacity would be horrible. Omicron hitting my throat with my boosters up to date wouldn't have much chance of persistent symptoms like I worried about for delta in my lungs.

Per St. Fauci himself, the vaccine does not stop transmission. Hence whether "all of the idiots like Kiero" get vaccinated or not has no impact on whether you get covid. Moreover, you being vaccinated does not stop you from getting covid (e.g., everyone in Gibraltar is vaccinated, but they still have covid cases), although it does help mitigate the symptoms. So, like the common cold, everybody, vaccinated or unvaccinated, is going to be getting covid over and over in the future.

As for herd immunity, it, like communism, is a red herring. Given covid's mutation rate, I doubt herd immunity is possible. You see the same thing with the flu.

Except we do have herd immunity with the flu. One of the many (many) problems with public health messaging is this idea that herd immunity means once you hit a certain percentage, the disease automatically goes extinct. But except in very rare cases, that's not how it works. Instead, it will follow cycles where the disease diminishes, then flares up again when immunity wanes and conditions are good (many seasonal diseases), or when it's introduced to a new population with no immunity, or even when a new generation is born and has to develop their own immunity. It gets even more complicated by diseases like the flu that mutate rapidly and thus are really a complex of diseases and can bypass immunity to various degrees, but herd immunity is messy and imperfect to begin with.

I used "herd immunity" in the sense that it was proffered by St. Fauci, which was when x% get vaccinated, we will be at herd immunity and covid will no longer be a problem. I figured it was like measles; if enough people get vaccinated, even though the vaccine is imperfect, transmission is effectively eliminated. That is obviously not the case.

Btw, in Fauci-speak, x(ti+1) > x(ti).

[jhkim]

We have moved a bit past the side topic of bureaucracy, but I'd like to follow up.

Getting regulation to work is a difficult job -- but the alternative of letting corporations do whatever they want without regulation isn't better, in my opinion. I think the best cases of regulation have been when the public became sufficiently aware and mobilized to make a difference. This happened to pass the Clean Air Act, for example, and I think that the improvement of air quality and the phase-out of leaded gasoline was a massive improvement. I also think that there was a crackdown on drug manufacturers after the scandal of Thalidomide to ensure safety testing of drugs -- and we're due for another crackdown with the opioid crisis.

The public provides almost no check on the apparatus of bureaucracy, and crises make for terrible legislation. Those are garbage solutions.

The solution is strong and simple but clear rules. Remove bureaucratic and judicial discretion. The ability to decide when there's ambiguity is where corruption grows. The rules don't even have to be particular fair, just clear, because clear is ultimately fairer than arbitrary whim or preferential/adverse treatment. If you know what the rules are, you can make rational decisions and avoid breaking them, even if the rules are stupid.

The worst system is the one we have, where regulators, bureaucrats, legislators and judges have wide discretionary power, vast immunities, and have created and operate under an impenetrable and contradictory fog of rules, which give them great power over the lives and businesses they control, no fear of censure, and everybody they rule over knows they can be punished at any time because there's no way to avoid breaking a dozen rules before breakfast.

I feel like we are talking past each other, because I generally agree with this.

I agree that there should be strong and simple but clear rules -- and that we are in a bad state currently. The question is, how do we get better rules implemented? I agree that crises are bad for legislation. The ideal public involvement is slow-and-steady growth of awareness rather than any crisis. Within U.S. history, I think the Gilded Age (1870s to around 1900) was a high point in corruption, and I think that things improved after that. I don't have a strong opinion about why, but the terrible corruption of the era was pretty clear. I do think the development public education helped, as did other grassroots organizing. Things got worse at some point in the 20th century - I don't make any strong claims of when. But the point is, we are due for more improvements.

Currently, we need to vote in moderate reformer politicians. I think that the current extreme partisanship is bad for improving the workings of government, because each party portrays the other as the ultimate evil -- and that one's own party is the best solution. As long as they perceive a much worse enemy, people accept the flaws of their own party. Partisanship will likely get worse for a time, but I hope that it will peak -- and we'll see people start to get off social media more, increased calls for reform, and more independent figures challenging the establishment.


EDITED TO ADD: The tricky question is how do we get stronger and clearer rules. Especially, are there particular countries in particular periods of history that we should emulate?

[Kiero]

So your aquired immunity isn't so good then.

It's good for another year. Similar to the way flu mutates enough to potentially get you each peak season.

I've had covid in December 2019 (two weeks of illness), January 2021 (one week of illness) and now January 2022 (72 hours and almost cleared). Unlike the jabbed who've had it repeatedly in 2021 and some have already got it in 2022 as well.

Zero risk of adverse reactions from gene therapy, too.

Which is worrying. The hope was that omicron would spread so fast that all of the idiots like Kiero would get it without killing too many people and we'd get to herd immunity that way. But if they keep on getting it over and over and over it'd be an annoying incubator of viral infections that'd hit old and immunocompromised people indefinitely.

Oh well, this is looking good for me personally. I have a pretty much a zero chance of dying from any variant of the virus even without vaccines but I really care about endurance sports and even a small hit to my lung capacity would be horrible. Omicron hitting my throat with my boosters up to date wouldn't have much chance of persistent symptoms like I worried about for delta in my lungs.

One infection a year, much like flu. I like those odds better than an unknown risk of myocarditis or pericarditis and multiple infections a year, as has afflicted the jabbed.

You lab rats are the incubators, we didn't have major strains percolating this quickly before they started the jab programmes.

[HappyDaze]

So your aquired immunity isn't so good then.

It's good for another year. Similar to the way flu mutates enough to potentially get you each peak season.

I've had covid in December 2019 (two weeks of illness), January 2021 (one week of illness) and now January 2022 (72 hours and almost cleared). Unlike the jabbed who've had it repeatedly in 2021 and some have already got it in 2022 as well.

Zero risk of adverse reactions from gene therapy, too.

Which is worrying. The hope was that omicron would spread so fast that all of the idiots like Kiero would get it without killing too many people and we'd get to herd immunity that way. But if they keep on getting it over and over and over it'd be an annoying incubator of viral infections that'd hit old and immunocompromised people indefinitely.

Oh well, this is looking good for me personally. I have a pretty much a zero chance of dying from any variant of the virus even without vaccines but I really care about endurance sports and even a small hit to my lung capacity would be horrible. Omicron hitting my throat with my boosters up to date wouldn't have much chance of persistent symptoms like I worried about for delta in my lungs.

One infection a year, much like flu. I like those odds better than an unknown risk of myocarditis or pericarditis and multiple infections a year, as has afflicted the jabbed.

You lab rats are the incubators, we didn't have major strains percolating this quickly before they started the jab programmes.

Weird. I'm one of the "jabbed" yet I've never had Covid. My immune system must just be better than yours...or perhaps the vaccine is working well for me.

[3catcircus]

So your aquired immunity isn't so good then.

It's good for another year. Similar to the way flu mutates enough to potentially get you each peak season.

I've had covid in December 2019 (two weeks of illness), January 2021 (one week of illness) and now January 2022 (72 hours and almost cleared). Unlike the jabbed who've had it repeatedly in 2021 and some have already got it in 2022 as well.

Zero risk of adverse reactions from gene therapy, too.

Which is worrying. The hope was that omicron would spread so fast that all of the idiots like Kiero would get it without killing too many people and we'd get to herd immunity that way. But if they keep on getting it over and over and over it'd be an annoying incubator of viral infections that'd hit old and immunocompromised people indefinitely.

Oh well, this is looking good for me personally. I have a pretty much a zero chance of dying from any variant of the virus even without vaccines but I really care about endurance sports and even a small hit to my lung capacity would be horrible. Omicron hitting my throat with my boosters up to date wouldn't have much chance of persistent symptoms like I worried about for delta in my lungs.

One infection a year, much like flu. I like those odds better than an unknown risk of myocarditis or pericarditis and multiple infections a year, as has afflicted the jabbed.

You lab rats are the incubators, we didn't have major strains percolating this quickly before they started the jab programmes.

This really all depends on the individual.  No vaccines and minor symptoms, vaccinated answer minute symptoms, vaccinated and awful symptoms, not vaccinated and awful symptoms - and everything in between.

I got my 2nd Pfizer in April. Got delta at the beginning of September from my unvaccinated teenage son (high school athlete with higher risk of vaccination complications for him than from COVID). Loss of taste/smell. Head cold symptoms with low grade fever first 3 days. Then exhaustion and shortness of breath (96% SpO2) for a few days until I got mAb treatment.  Got a booster at beginning of December . Son got covid again this week (stuffy nose, only, but had to test him for school and the rapid antigen test I used turned bright pink in the sample line like right away).  I'm sure I got it again from him - had a minor fever 2 days ago that went away in a few hours and woke up with sinus pain behind my left cheek this morning, but no fever, no head cold symptoms, no loss of taste/smell.

To vaccinate or not - health authorities should have couched it as similar to an annual flu shot rather than the "get the shot or you'll kill others and yourself" message - worst marketing campaign ever...  Many of those opposed to getting it are *because* of the high pressure sales tactics that were used to try to get them to take it.

Yes, protect the vulnerable, but then stay out of everyone else's way - exactly what we've always done during flu season with the frail and elderly, cancer patients, etc.  I've never gotten a flu shot when I was younger (outside of when I was in the military) despite all of the world travel I've taken in the course of employment, but now that I'm 50, it makes sense. 

[Shrieking Banshee]

Weird. I'm one of the "jabbed" yet I've never had Covid. My immune system must just be better than yours...or perhaps the vaccine is working well for me.

This is stupid. There are a ton of people jabbed and still got infected. My dad had to take respiratory meds for a while after being infected, and he was double jabbed and this was before omicron or delta.
So I can see that the disease is bad and hurts some people pretty badly, but to be blaming the unvaxed for something the vaccine doesn't do very well itself is dumb.

At the same time, the disease can have worse reactions with some people more then the flue normally does. So its not completly harmless.

[Pat]

(misread a post)

[jhkim]

Weird. I'm one of the "jabbed" yet I've never had Covid. My immune system must just be better than yours...or perhaps the vaccine is working well for me.

This is stupid. There are a ton of people jabbed and still got infected. My dad had to take respiratory meds for a while after being infected, and he was double jabbed and this was before omicron or delta.
So I can see that the disease is bad and hurts some people pretty badly, but to be blaming the unvaxed for something the vaccine doesn't do very well itself is dumb.

At the same time, the disease can have worse reactions with some people more then the flue normally does. So its not completly harmless.

I agree that many people were vaccinated and still got sick. I had a friend in my church who got covid after vaccination in the fall, and also my girlfriend's ex-husband just this week. However, it is possible that the vaccines somewhat reduce the chance of infection and transmission -- while not preventing them. It is similar for many other safety measures, like avoiding indoor crowds. One can still get infected even with reasonable precautions, but precautions can reduce the likelihood of infection.

I think a lot of points are getting conflated here, though - especially clashing on some very different versions of facts.

I can understand opposition to government authoritarianism. I had much the same feeling after the Patriot Act was passed after 9/11. It's not that I was pro-terrorist, but I felt that the government was using the crisis to increase it's surveillance and reduce civil liberties. Still, very few people are actually skeptical that I can see regarding covid. They buy very hard into a particular narrative based on their politics, and will react very emotionally to disagreement.

Personally, I don't have much background in medicine, and I don't claim to know a whole lot. But the people I know who are medically trained all seem to agree that this is a very serious disease and they encourage vaccinations.

Regarding HappyDaze's reply - it should be noted that he was replying to these comments by Kiero --

I've had covid in December 2019 (two weeks of illness), January 2021 (one week of illness) and now January 2022 (72 hours and almost cleared). Unlike the jabbed who've had it repeatedly in 2021 and some have already got it in 2022 as well.

Zero risk of adverse reactions from gene therapy, too.

You lab rats are the incubators, we didn't have major strains percolating this quickly before they started the jab programmes.

[Spinachcat]

Hey bitches, time to get scared of the sniffles again!

Here comes the FLURONA!!!

It's been detected in America! And it's coming for you all!

Run! Hide! Mask! Vax! Boost! Double Mask! Double Boost!

[Shrieking Banshee]

But the people I know who are medically trained all seem to agree that this is a very serious disease and they encourage vaccinations.

The thing is that any establishment is also not infallible. They have been wrong on COVID multiple times before, and after being double jabbed myself, id rather wait out until they get some 'No for real this thing will work' medication instead of getting the newer and newer jabs that get counteracted by the newer and newer strain, with no promises of ending lockdowns.