Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.

[Pat]

Wearing a mask certainly has perks.

It makes it harder for the police to identify you when you start throwing Molotov's!

[Squidi]

Honestly hate the fact wearing masks was politicized by the left and ridiculed by the right... Wearing a mask certainly has perks.

Unfortunately, none of those perks involve being effective against COVID. That's why it is politicized. There's no actual studies, evidence, or data suggesting that masks work (actually the exact opposite). So if they don't work, how can the choice to force people to wear them be anything but political?

So, why does peer pressure work on wearing a mask, but fails on vaccines?

I don't think it does? Peers are not applying peer pressure in a lot of places I assume is the issue. Democrats appear to be pressuring Democrats to get vaccinated, and Republicans appear to be pressuring Republicans to be suspect of the vaccine. Democrats are mocking Republicans about vaccinations, which entrenches their position to be suspicious. Republicans are mocking Democrats about being slaves to the Government which just entrenches their position. As long as vaccinations are no a visible thing which everyone seems to have around you (like a mask) the peer pressure is from your political peers and not general public peers.

Vaccines are absolutely a visible thing here, even in Florida. Because people who have gotten the vaccine won't shut up about it. I'm in a blue county here and I've had this conversation multiple times:

"Hey man, what's up with those anti-vaxxers? What a bunch of idiots."

"I'm not vaccinated."

Dumbstruck silence, then "Well anyway, those anti-vaxxers sure are stupid, huh?"

"I said, I'm an 'anti-vaxxer'."

... "Doesn't look like anything to me."

It's like their brains can't process it. In their head, the only people who would choose not to get these vaccines is some inbred hillbilly Trump supporter, waving the American flag from the giant smokestack on the back of their pick-up truck. I've only been a Republican for about a year now. My pick-up truck hasn't been delivered yet.

I admit that when my county had a mask mandate, I tolerated it for a while. Through this entire thing, I've gone out to eat every single day. Literally, there has not been a single day in which I stayed home, even during lockdown. I'd get my takeout and just sit in front the store and eat it on the ground (I'm pretty sure that I single handedly kept my local Five Guys in business). I'm a regular everywhere I go, and I know the staff. I didn't want to start any shit because I know they aren't responsible for corporate's decisions (or the idiots on the corrupt city council). They don't deserve to be the front line of a battle they don't want to even be in.

But as of Biden's edict today... well, as the kids like to say, I shall "become ungovernable".

[Ghostmaker]

A blatant, unconstitutional, undemocratic power grab, by a senile old hair sniffer.

But no more mean tweets, right?

[oggsmash]

  I do love how people clamor there will be no mandates from government, but a private business can of course require medical procedures.  Here we are now, with a mandate from government.  What will it be now?  You do not have to get the vaccine, you can just take a test weekly.... which makes fuck all sense, if you can STILL get Covid and spread it with a vax, shouldnt EVERYONE have to get a weekly test?

[Pat]

Which president is the fascist again?

[DM_Curt]

Biden: "All companies with over 100 employees will have to do X or face OSHA fines in the tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars."
Employee #102 of 102 on the seniority list: *starts sweating*

[HappyDaze]

Biden: "All companies with over 100 employees will have to do X or face OSHA fines in the tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars."
Employee #102 of 102 on the seniority list: *starts sweating*

Sweating is OK...just don't cough.

[Zelen]

Interesting context to the discussion about the constitutionality of vaccine mandates. Do we also want to bring back sterilization of people deemed unfit by the state?

[Squidi]

Interesting context to the discussion about the constitutionality of vaccine mandates. Do we also want to bring back sterilization of people deemed unfit by the state?

If I remember correctly, the guy in that case still didn't have to take the vaccination. He just had to pay a $5 fine. Also, this was at the time that the Supreme Court allowed forced sterilization of the mentally handicapped, so...

[Ghostmaker]

More specifically, the argument needs to rely on Buck v. Bell, not Jacobson.

Assuming, of course, these two faced dog fuckers are willing to talk about 'my body, my choice' out of one side of their mouth, and 'take the jab, deplorable!' out of the other.

Jesus. I'm vaccinated, but this shit should make any sane person's skin crawl. Because if they can force this, what else can they force?

[Mistwell]

Honestly hate the fact wearing masks was politicized by the left and ridiculed by the right... Wearing a mask certainly has perks.

Unfortunately, none of those perks involve being effective against COVID. That's why it is politicized. There's no actual studies, evidence, or data suggesting that masks work (actually the exact opposite). So if they don't work, how can the choice to force people to wear them be anything but political?

Over and over again studies show masks work. And over and over again you try to re-write history and act like they have not shown they work.

Here is the latest:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/09/masks-randomized-study-bangladesh-covid/

So, why does peer pressure work on wearing a mask, but fails on vaccines?

I don't think it does? Peers are not applying peer pressure in a lot of places I assume is the issue. Democrats appear to be pressuring Democrats to get vaccinated, and Republicans appear to be pressuring Republicans to be suspect of the vaccine. Democrats are mocking Republicans about vaccinations, which entrenches their position to be suspicious. Republicans are mocking Democrats about being slaves to the Government which just entrenches their position. As long as vaccinations are no a visible thing which everyone seems to have around you (like a mask) the peer pressure is from your political peers and not general public peers.

Vaccines are absolutely a visible thing here, even in Florida. Because people who have gotten the vaccine won't shut up about it. I'm in a blue county here and I've had this conversation multiple times:

"Hey man, what's up with those anti-vaxxers? What a bunch of idiots."

"I'm not vaccinated."

Dumbstruck silence, then "Well anyway, those anti-vaxxers sure are stupid, huh?"

"I said, I'm an 'anti-vaxxer'."

... "Doesn't look like anything to me."

It's like their brains can't process it. In their head, the only people who would choose not to get these vaccines is some inbred hillbilly Trump supporter, waving the American flag from the giant smokestack on the back of their pick-up truck. I've only been a Republican for about a year now. My pick-up truck hasn't been delivered yet.

I admit that when my county had a mask mandate, I tolerated it for a while. Through this entire thing, I've gone out to eat every single day. Literally, there has not been a single day in which I stayed home, even during lockdown. I'd get my takeout and just sit in front the store and eat it on the ground (I'm pretty sure that I single handedly kept my local Five Guys in business). I'm a regular everywhere I go, and I know the staff. I didn't want to start any shit because I know they aren't responsible for corporate's decisions (or the idiots on the corrupt city council). They don't deserve to be the front line of a battle they don't want to even be in.

But as of Biden's edict today... well, as the kids like to say, I shall "become ungovernable".

So when everyone wore a mask around you, even you wore a mask. So the peer pressure works.

[Mistwell]

  I do love how people clamor there will be no mandates from government, but a private business can of course require medical procedures.  Here we are now, with a mandate from government.  What will it be now?  You do not have to get the vaccine, you can just take a test weekly.... which makes fuck all sense, if you can STILL get Covid and spread it with a vax, shouldnt EVERYONE have to get a weekly test?

We're looking for a better situation and not a perfect situation. If you are vaccinated, you are 1) less likely to get the virus, and 2) infectious for a shorter period of time if you do get it. Since we don't have the testing resources to test everyone every week, applying those testing resources to those who are more likely to get the virus and more likely to be contagious with the virus for a longer period of time is a smart application of limited resources.

[Ghostmaker]

  I do love how people clamor there will be no mandates from government, but a private business can of course require medical procedures.  Here we are now, with a mandate from government.  What will it be now?  You do not have to get the vaccine, you can just take a test weekly.... which makes fuck all sense, if you can STILL get Covid and spread it with a vax, shouldnt EVERYONE have to get a weekly test?

We're looking for a better situation and not a perfect situation. If you are vaccinated, you are 1) less likely to get the virus, and 2) infectious for a shorter period of time if you do get it. Since we don't have the testing resources to test everyone every week, applying those testing resources to those who are more likely to get the virus and more likely to be contagious with the virus for a longer period of time is a smart application of limited resources.

Bolded part by me. You do realize that means it's not a vaccine, right? Vaccines do not just make it 'less likely'.

[HappyDaze]

  I do love how people clamor there will be no mandates from government, but a private business can of course require medical procedures.  Here we are now, with a mandate from government.  What will it be now?  You do not have to get the vaccine, you can just take a test weekly.... which makes fuck all sense, if you can STILL get Covid and spread it with a vax, shouldnt EVERYONE have to get a weekly test?

We're looking for a better situation and not a perfect situation. If you are vaccinated, you are 1) less likely to get the virus, and 2) infectious for a shorter period of time if you do get it. Since we don't have the testing resources to test everyone every week, applying those testing resources to those who are more likely to get the virus and more likely to be contagious with the virus for a longer period of time is a smart application of limited resources.

Bolded part by me. You do realize that means it's not a vaccine, right? Vaccines do not just make it 'less likely'.

As usual, you are mistaken.

[Pat]

Honestly hate the fact wearing masks was politicized by the left and ridiculed by the right... Wearing a mask certainly has perks.

Unfortunately, none of those perks involve being effective against COVID. That's why it is politicized. There's no actual studies, evidence, or data suggesting that masks work (actually the exact opposite). So if they don't work, how can the choice to force people to wear them be anything but political?

Over and over again studies show masks work. And over and over again you try to re-write history and act like they have not shown they work.

Here is the latest:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/09/masks-randomized-study-bangladesh-covid/

Over and over again, you've claimed that masks work.

And over and over, we've pointed out that the studies overwhelmingly show masks had no or minimal effect, and that the studies that showed even a tiny effect were very low quality, with a minuscule number of subjects or very poor controls. The only solid study on the subject (Danmask) clearly shows no effect. We've explain the theories why masks don't work, covering things like particle size and aerosolization. And the last time you posted the Bangladesh study, we went over all the numerous methodological problems that invalidate its conclusions.

You never replied to any of these concerns. You keep popping up again and again to make the same claims, but every time we point out the problems with those claims, you vanish like a thief in the night.