Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.

[HappyDaze]

You should factor in that hospitals have often expanded their ICUs into other care areas and then are still at/near capacity.  One campus I work started with a 20-bed ICU that took over another 20 beds from an adjacent surgical unit and had an average daily census of 36 (with roughly 2/3 being Covid patients) in August. You can view that as being at 90% capacity, but compared to the hospital's standard it's really 180% capacity.

It's not an area where I've dived deep, but I've ended up reading a lot of articles that touch on ICU capacity, and they were uniformly terrible. They either gave numbers that sound large without providing context (i.e. compared to the normal/expected rates) or focused on a single case while suggesting it's the norm, even when it's clearly a rare exception. I'm sure the raw data is out there, but it would be nice if we had trustworthy news organizations, instead of having to assemble all the parts ourselves.

All hospitals in central Florida have expanded ICUs, but the degree varies from hospital to hospital. In general, the more space the hospital had for post-op recovery (inpatient surgical floors), the more they could convert. Other areas of elective services are much harder to utilize in this manner. Even after converting non-ICU spaces, you still need to find ICU-level staff, and uptraining the med-surg nurses that previously worked those areas is not nearly as quick as converting rooms (nor is it always successful), so even as total ICU beds increase, staffed ICU beds can still lag behind.

[Ghostmaker]

You know what I do not see mentioned, ever?  How we are letting hordes of people into the country with no idea as to how vaccinated they are.

The how isn't the question. The question is the why.

Particularly as there's been implication that such people have been deliberately exposed to Covid and then dumped in, how shall we say, more fractious states that aren't inclined to bow their heads to D.C.

Deliberately exposed to Covid? Where do you get these nonsensical conspiracy theories?

It must be nice to have celery in your head instead of braincells. Do the math:

The U.S. federal authorities are not quarantining, isolating, or otherwise handling the ridiculous surge of illegal aliens coming across the southern border with any kind of skill. In fact, most are being held in conditions worse than the ones the left castigated Trump over (despite those 'cages' being established during the Obama years. Oops).

Rather, such persons are being loaded onto transports -- in close quarters -- and shipped to various areas. Pretty certain being confined within a vehicle with a Covid-positive would be an easy way to be exposed. Doesn't matter if they're shipped an hour away or across country (there have been some interesting spikes in Covid though).

And if you say 'they couldn't know', then just shoot yourself now, you moron, because you'd be more useful as an organ donor than a taxpayer. This isn't rocket science.

[Pat]

You know what I do not see mentioned, ever?  How we are letting hordes of people into the country with no idea as to how vaccinated they are.

The how isn't the question. The question is the why.

Particularly as there's been implication that such people have been deliberately exposed to Covid and then dumped in, how shall we say, more fractious states that aren't inclined to bow their heads to D.C.

Deliberately exposed to Covid? Where do you get these nonsensical conspiracy theories?

It must be nice to have celery in your head instead of braincells. Do the math:

The U.S. federal authorities are not quarantining, isolating, or otherwise handling the ridiculous surge of illegal aliens coming across the southern border with any kind of skill. In fact, most are being held in conditions worse than the ones the left castigated Trump over (despite those 'cages' being established during the Obama years. Oops).

Rather, such persons are being loaded onto transports -- in close quarters -- and shipped to various areas. Pretty certain being confined within a vehicle with a Covid-positive would be an easy way to be exposed. Doesn't matter if they're shipped an hour away or across country (there have been some interesting spikes in Covid though).

And if you say 'they couldn't know', then just shoot yourself now, you moron, because you'd be more useful as an organ donor than a taxpayer. This isn't rocket science.

Never attribute to a conspiracy what can be attributed to incompetence, laziness and CYA.

There's a border crisis they want to pretend doesn't exist, so they're trying to disguise the number of immigrants by dispersing them quickly and widely. Sure it, could spread covid. But that's incidental, and the most it proves is they don't care that much about spreading covid, not that there was some kind of plot.

[Ghostmaker]

You know what I do not see mentioned, ever?  How we are letting hordes of people into the country with no idea as to how vaccinated they are.

The how isn't the question. The question is the why.

Particularly as there's been implication that such people have been deliberately exposed to Covid and then dumped in, how shall we say, more fractious states that aren't inclined to bow their heads to D.C.

Deliberately exposed to Covid? Where do you get these nonsensical conspiracy theories?

It must be nice to have celery in your head instead of braincells. Do the math:

The U.S. federal authorities are not quarantining, isolating, or otherwise handling the ridiculous surge of illegal aliens coming across the southern border with any kind of skill. In fact, most are being held in conditions worse than the ones the left castigated Trump over (despite those 'cages' being established during the Obama years. Oops).

Rather, such persons are being loaded onto transports -- in close quarters -- and shipped to various areas. Pretty certain being confined within a vehicle with a Covid-positive would be an easy way to be exposed. Doesn't matter if they're shipped an hour away or across country (there have been some interesting spikes in Covid though).

And if you say 'they couldn't know', then just shoot yourself now, you moron, because you'd be more useful as an organ donor than a taxpayer. This isn't rocket science.

Never attribute to a conspiracy what can be attributed to incompetence, laziness and CYA.

There's a border crisis they want to pretend doesn't exist, so they're trying to disguise the number of immigrants by dispersing them quickly and widely. Sure it, could spread covid. But that's incidental, and the most it proves is they don't care that much about spreading covid, not that there was some kind of plot.

*shrug*

Whether it's malice or incompetence is irrelevant.

The damage is still being done.

[Mistwell]

I have literally, no shit, seen people say, 'I have the right to live in a virus free world.'

Just wrap your mind around that level of stupid.

I mean, they do. They can purchase a bubble and live in it. I don't see any reason that couldn't be done.

[Mistwell]

Expecting a ban on air travel for uninjected people tomorrow. Lets see what happens. Hope a judge in Hawaii is ready to strike it down.

I went to Hawaii recently. It's either vaccinated or tested in the couple days prior to travel. I had to log my vaccine card at a special line before flying, and provide proof of my kid's testing.

[Mistwell]

We've kinda proven those points out over time. We did the whole "You can go unmasked if you're vaccinated as long as the unvaccinated wear masks" based on the honors system and it was a total train wreck with everyone going maskless because that's how our society works these days. So here we are, with the vaccinated having to wear masks because the unvaccinated won't unless everyone has to.

Ah yes, identify and blame some Other. It's their fault.

I'm currently reading Hannah Arendt's The Origins of Totalitarianism. The parallels are striking.

Cut the crap. Do you think the unvaccinated wear a mask when they see many other people not wearing a mask? Do you think the honor system was working or not?

I don't think masks work. The studies have been very conclusive that the effect is minimal to non-existent, and the last one you cited with a positive effect has a number of methodological problems.

The only reason for the masks is to exert control by creating a climate of fear, and providing an enemy to blame. Which is why I'm bringing up parallels in the writing of authors like Arendt and Hoffer, who dissected the nature of fanatical mass movements and the rise of totalitarianism, because these the techniques used.

Do you think the unvaccinated wear a mask when they see many other people not wearing a mask? Do you think the honor system was working or not?

[oggsmash]

Expecting a ban on air travel for uninjected people tomorrow. Lets see what happens. Hope a judge in Hawaii is ready to strike it down.

I went to Hawaii recently. It's either vaccinated or tested in the couple days prior to travel. I had to log my vaccine card at a special line before flying, and provide proof of my kid's testing.

  Since people with the vax can get covid...wouldnt it make more sense to test everyone?

[Mistwell]

ICUs being full is an issue for everyone. You too, internet badass, if you get in a car accident or fall off a ladder.

ICU's are almost always near capacity at normal times because the bean counters don't want a bunch of beds sitting empty and costing them money. There are whole studies done before hospitals even break ground to figure out what a normal number of patients at any one time will be. If a Hospital is at 90-95% capacity; that's NORMAL.

ICU capacity hasn't been running anything close to "normal" for the entire pandemic. There are many places right now which have locked down non-essential surgeries, which has a cascade effect of course because non-essential doesn't mean "increased risk of death if I don't get this done" it just means "not dying right this moment if you don't get it". If you have evidence the ICUs are not running at much worse capacity during the pandemic let's see it. I strongly suspect it's just some bullshit spin put on something to justify your world view. 

According to the numbers from the undertakers, the number of deaths was actually LOWER in 2020 than it was in 2019.

That's not how we count deaths. For fucks sake man, you know this. Deaths in the U.S. (total - from all causes) increased by 18% in 2020.

Meanwhile in Israel where 90+% are double vaxxed

Oh look, a TOTALLY FABRICATED STAT. Israel is at 61% fully vaccinated you fucking tool (though they say it's 58% and some triple doses were being counted as unique individuals). They were doing great, and then it leveled off as the Orthodox and the Palestinian populations declined the vaccine in high numbers, and have stagnated just over 60% for a while now. WHICH IS WHY THEY ARE SPIKING. They used to be one of the most vaccinated nations, but now they're very middle of the road. Germany, France, Netherlands, Italy, UK, Canada, Ireland, Belgium, Uruguay, Iceland, Denmark, Spain, etc. are all ahead of them now.

a large percentage has had the booster and some even a fourth booster, the majority hospitalized and dying with Covid are vaxxed

"half of Israel's seriously ill patients who are currently hospitalized were fully vaccinated at least five months ago. Most of them are over 60 years old and have comorbidities. The seriously ill patients who are unvaccinated are mostly young, healthy people whose condition deteriorated quickly." "for Israelis above age 60, a Pfizer booster shot reduced the chances of infection by 86% and reduced the chances of severe infection by 92%."

[Mistwell]

Expecting a ban on air travel for uninjected people tomorrow. Lets see what happens. Hope a judge in Hawaii is ready to strike it down.

I went to Hawaii recently. It's either vaccinated or tested in the couple days prior to travel. I had to log my vaccine card at a special line before flying, and provide proof of my kid's testing.

  Since people with the vax can get covid...wouldnt it make more sense to test everyone?

Yes, but they want people to get vaccinated. But yes. I think the rapid test is starting to ramp up in production and I suspect we're going to get one of those "test right there at the airport in line" things in coming months. I know when I got to Staples Center to see an NBA game a lot of people do the rapid testing right there.

[Squidi]

Do you think the unvaccinated wear a mask when they see many other people not wearing a mask? Do you think the honor system was working or not?

Why do you think the unvaccinated aren't wearing masks, even in spite of orders telling them too.

[Mistwell]

Do you think the unvaccinated wear a mask when they see many other people not wearing a mask? Do you think the honor system was working or not?

Why do you think the unvaccinated aren't wearing masks, even in spite of orders telling them too.

When everyone is wearing a mask the unvaccinated also tend to wear a mask. I think it's like everything else in life. If peer pressure is applied, most people do that thing.

[HappyDaze]

You know what I do not see mentioned, ever?  How we are letting hordes of people into the country with no idea as to how vaccinated they are.

The how isn't the question. The question is the why.

Particularly as there's been implication that such people have been deliberately exposed to Covid and then dumped in, how shall we say, more fractious states that aren't inclined to bow their heads to D.C.

Deliberately exposed to Covid? Where do you get these nonsensical conspiracy theories?

It must be nice to have celery in your head instead of braincells. Do the math:

The U.S. federal authorities are not quarantining, isolating, or otherwise handling the ridiculous surge of illegal aliens coming across the southern border with any kind of skill. In fact, most are being held in conditions worse than the ones the left castigated Trump over (despite those 'cages' being established during the Obama years. Oops).

Rather, such persons are being loaded onto transports -- in close quarters -- and shipped to various areas. Pretty certain being confined within a vehicle with a Covid-positive would be an easy way to be exposed. Doesn't matter if they're shipped an hour away or across country (there have been some interesting spikes in Covid though).

And if you say 'they couldn't know', then just shoot yourself now, you moron, because you'd be more useful as an organ donor than a taxpayer. This isn't rocket science.

Never attribute to a conspiracy what can be attributed to incompetence, laziness and CYA.

There's a border crisis they want to pretend doesn't exist, so they're trying to disguise the number of immigrants by dispersing them quickly and widely. Sure it, could spread covid. But that's incidental, and the most it proves is they don't care that much about spreading covid, not that there was some kind of plot.

*shrug*

Whether it's malice or incompetence is irrelevant.

The damage is still being done.

You used the word "deliberately" but now say that's unimportant, yet your entire argument then falls apart just like all the other conspiracy theories you peddle.

[Squidi]

When everyone is wearing a mask the unvaccinated also tend to wear a mask. I think it's like everything else in life. If peer pressure is applied, most people do that thing.

So, why does peer pressure work on wearing a mask, but fails on vaccines?

[Ghostmaker]

You know what I do not see mentioned, ever?  How we are letting hordes of people into the country with no idea as to how vaccinated they are.

The how isn't the question. The question is the why.

Particularly as there's been implication that such people have been deliberately exposed to Covid and then dumped in, how shall we say, more fractious states that aren't inclined to bow their heads to D.C.

Deliberately exposed to Covid? Where do you get these nonsensical conspiracy theories?

It must be nice to have celery in your head instead of braincells. Do the math:

The U.S. federal authorities are not quarantining, isolating, or otherwise handling the ridiculous surge of illegal aliens coming across the southern border with any kind of skill. In fact, most are being held in conditions worse than the ones the left castigated Trump over (despite those 'cages' being established during the Obama years. Oops).

Rather, such persons are being loaded onto transports -- in close quarters -- and shipped to various areas. Pretty certain being confined within a vehicle with a Covid-positive would be an easy way to be exposed. Doesn't matter if they're shipped an hour away or across country (there have been some interesting spikes in Covid though).

And if you say 'they couldn't know', then just shoot yourself now, you moron, because you'd be more useful as an organ donor than a taxpayer. This isn't rocket science.

Never attribute to a conspiracy what can be attributed to incompetence, laziness and CYA.

There's a border crisis they want to pretend doesn't exist, so they're trying to disguise the number of immigrants by dispersing them quickly and widely. Sure it, could spread covid. But that's incidental, and the most it proves is they don't care that much about spreading covid, not that there was some kind of plot.

*shrug*

Whether it's malice or incompetence is irrelevant.

The damage is still being done.

You used the word "deliberately" but now say that's unimportant, yet your entire argument then falls apart just like all the other conspiracy theories you peddle.

Ultimately, the results are what matter. I may think it's deliberate; Pat disagrees. I don't think it's worth getting into a verbal fistfight with Pat over.

You, on the other hand, should kill yourself. Immediately.

In other news, the junta declares 'fuck your freedoms'.

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-business-health-coronavirus-pandemic-executive-branch-18fb12993f05be13bf760946a6fb89be

I guess the economy crashing is due to those dirty wreckers kulaks unvaccinated, right?