Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.

[Mistwell]

I wonder if you could find 1 person in a country of 330 million that has died of the CCP Wuhan virus without any other pre existing conditions?

I just did, and posted about it.

[Shasarak]

I wonder if you could find 1 person in a country of 330 million that has died of the CCP Wuhan virus without any other pre existing conditions?

Want to firm up the foundations of those goalposts? What pre-existing conditions to you want to consider? Any/all medical conditioins? If you go that route, damn near all of them will have suffered from at least a bout of tooth decay or adolescent acne that obviously was the true cause of death, right?

Even if its a 1 in a million chance then it has to have happened at least 330 times, so someone must be able to find one of those people.

How would suggest doing that?

We would need some kind of ethical and honest reporting system.

[Ratman_tf]

Boxer Oscar de la Hoya (48) is in the hospital fighting for his life right now with Covid. Not only was he not overweight or obese but he was in training for his next fight against UFC champion Vitor Belfort, scheduled for Sept. 11 at Staples Center, and had been training for months, and was in peak physical condition. He's also fully vaccinated.

This virus hits people in different ways. Being of a healthy BMI decreases your chances of harm, but it's not determinative. Being vaccinated decreases your chances of harm, but it's not determinative. You can better your odds by watching your weight and being vaccinated. But nothing is a sure thing.

  Oscar has been hit in the head a ton, was way undersized to fight Belfort, and has had a shitload of booger sugar during his life.  I would not be too certain of his excellent physical condition to be honest, and I would not be so certain his condition is dire, as media tends to exaggerate one way or the other.

   He might be in dire condition and might have been in excellent condition, but past Oscar, his closest of kin, and his doctor no one else really knows.

Oh for fucks sake NONE of those are known risk factors for Covid. He was however in excellent physical condition, and it's Oscar himself tweeting FROM THE HOSPITAL.

The lengths you guys will go to, to pretend nobody healthy has ever been made seriously ill or died from Covid, are truly amazing. I am not arguing everyone is equally at risk from covid, but you still are unwilling to admit to apparently ANY risk for healthy people from Covid. Which is just sad denial.

Here, this is Josh Tidmore. Dead from Covid. Healthy, 36, not overweight or obese, non-smoker, physically active. No underlying conditions. I am not arguing this is a "typical" case. I am however saying it's happening to some. You're not immune just because you're healthy and of an appropriate weight and active and younger:

We can (and have) dug up "black swan" cases of vaccinated people dying of Covid. If you look, you'll find edge cases to "support" any position.

Yes I know, I just posted the boxer who is in the hospital with covid despite being fully vaccinated. Again, I am not arguing everyone is at equal risk. I am simply arguing being young and healthy isn't itself enough to ensure no real risk of hospitalization or death. It just increases your odds in a meaningful way. Much like the vaccine also increases your odds in a meaningful way.

I agree with you there. I can't speak for everyone else on the board, but for myself, all I'm standing by, is the right to decide for myself how to asses those odds and risks in the face of rhetoric and, in some cases, downright misrepresentation and blatant mistruths.

It certainly doesn't help that on this forum, discussion is a brawl, with people jumping in, getting their punches in, and then jumping out.

I don't appreciate you being logical and reasonable in this response. It's really throwing off my assumptions and making me reconsider what I think about it. Not cool mang!

I'll try to put in some personal insults next time.

[RPGPundit]

Of course a perfectly healthy person under 40 could die of complications from Covid.

A perfectly healthy person under 40 could also die of complications from a paper cut, or the common cold.

The important thing to look at is not the anecdotal evidence which gets emphasized specifically because of how unusual it is, but at the statistics and probabilities.

[HappyDaze]

Of course a perfectly healthy person under 40 could die of complications from Covid.

A perfectly healthy person under 40 could also die of complications from a paper cut, or the common cold.

The important thing to look at is not the anecdotal evidence which gets emphasized specifically because of how unusual it is, but at the statistics and probabilities.

I'll avoid telling the family of the next one that dies that it was "statistically improbable" that it happened, and that they should look beyond their personal "anecdotal evidencr" when thinking about Covid.

I hope we can both agree that one person's view of what the "important thing" is can be dramatically different from another's.

[RPGPundit]

Of course a perfectly healthy person under 40 could die of complications from Covid.

A perfectly healthy person under 40 could also die of complications from a paper cut, or the common cold.

The important thing to look at is not the anecdotal evidence which gets emphasized specifically because of how unusual it is, but at the statistics and probabilities.

I'll avoid telling the family of the next one that dies that it was "statistically improbable" that it happened, and that they should look beyond their personal "anecdotal evidencr" when thinking about Covid.

I hope we can both agree that one person's view of what the "important thing" is can be dramatically different from another's.

Except that's a ridiculous way to look at this. Obviously, anyone's death is tragic in a sense (except maybe death through old age, and even that's sad for those they leave behind). The death of someone from having a piano fall on them is tragic. The guy who dies from slipping off his toilet seat is tragic. Someone who dies by being hit on the head with a soccer ball is tragic.

But you don't make policy, especially policy FORCING people to do things to their bodies, based on the tragedy of individual deaths that buck all the probabilities.

Based on my age range and health, the odds of me dying from Covid are very very small. Of course, it could happen in theory. But anyone can die at any time, in theory. It's not a measure by which to live one's own life in fear, much less a measure by which to implement authoritarian police-state policy.

The people arguing to the contrary are either terrified ignoramuses or actively malicious people who get hard at the thought of the implementation of authoritarian police-state policy being implemented so that they get to be little commissars informing on their neighbours.

[Pat]

Of course a perfectly healthy person under 40 could die of complications from Covid.

A perfectly healthy person under 40 could also die of complications from a paper cut, or the common cold.

The important thing to look at is not the anecdotal evidence which gets emphasized specifically because of how unusual it is, but at the statistics and probabilities.

I'll avoid telling the family of the next one that dies that it was "statistically improbable" that it happened, and that they should look beyond their personal "anecdotal evidencr" when thinking about Covid.

I hope we can both agree that one person's view of what the "important thing" is can be dramatically different from another's.

It's important to not trivialize the very real losses people suffer, regardless of their rarity. But you're not doing the living a service by letting them remain terrified of something that's much less likely to kill them than any number of other causes they don't consider particularly high risk. Not to mention, we're not talking about bedside manner but statistics and general policy, and that should be based on data not emotionally manipulative anecdotes.

[DocJones]

I wonder if you could find 1 person in a country of 330 million that has died of the CCP Wuhan virus without any other pre existing conditions?

I just did, and posted about it.

No the chap was married.  That's a serious health condition for men.   ;-)

[Ghostmaker]

Stumbled upon this article just now. It's kinda odd, sad, and funny at the same time.

Oklahoma ERs can't treat gunshot victims because too many people are ODing on horse hormones? https://www.insider.com/oklahomas-emergency-rooms-are-clogged-with-people-overdosing-on-ivermectin-2021-9?amp

So this is what prolonged lockdowns do to people, huh!?

Considering this turned out to be false, bullshit, fake news, etc, do you plan to retract it?

[Mistwell]

Stumbled upon this article just now. It's kinda odd, sad, and funny at the same time.

Oklahoma ERs can't treat gunshot victims because too many people are ODing on horse hormones? https://www.insider.com/oklahomas-emergency-rooms-are-clogged-with-people-overdosing-on-ivermectin-2021-9?amp

So this is what prolonged lockdowns do to people, huh!?

Considering this turned out to be false, bullshit, fake news, etc, do you plan to retract it?

1. I almost never agree with Ghostmaker;
2. I agree with Ghostmaker on this - this turned out to be fake news.

When Mistwell and Ghostmaker agree, you're probably terribly wrong

[SHARK]

Of course a perfectly healthy person under 40 could die of complications from Covid.

A perfectly healthy person under 40 could also die of complications from a paper cut, or the common cold.

The important thing to look at is not the anecdotal evidence which gets emphasized specifically because of how unusual it is, but at the statistics and probabilities.

I'll avoid telling the family of the next one that dies that it was "statistically improbable" that it happened, and that they should look beyond their personal "anecdotal evidencr" when thinking about Covid.

I hope we can both agree that one person's view of what the "important thing" is can be dramatically different from another's.

Except that's a ridiculous way to look at this. Obviously, anyone's death is tragic in a sense (except maybe death through old age, and even that's sad for those they leave behind). The death of someone from having a piano fall on them is tragic. The guy who dies from slipping off his toilet seat is tragic. Someone who dies by being hit on the head with a soccer ball is tragic.

But you don't make policy, especially policy FORCING people to do things to their bodies, based on the tragedy of individual deaths that buck all the probabilities.

Based on my age range and health, the odds of me dying from Covid are very very small. Of course, it could happen in theory. But anyone can die at any time, in theory. It's not a measure by which to live one's own life in fear, much less a measure by which to implement authoritarian police-state policy.

The people arguing to the contrary are either terrified ignoramuses or actively malicious people who get hard at the thought of the implementation of authoritarian police-state policy being implemented so that they get to be little commissars informing on their neighbours.

Greetings!

Excellent, Pundit! I agree entirely. The whole joy for totalitarianism by elements of the government, business, academia, and other parts of society is disgusting.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

[Ghostmaker]

https://www.wsmv.com/news/new-vanderbilt-health-data-shows-difference-in-hospitalizations-between-vaccinated-unvaccinated/article_8d6a8464-0fe0-11ec-aad5-5302ae60b1dd.html

Oops.

Take your mask mandate and shove it up your ass.

EDIT: I want to add something here that has been pointed out elsewhere. Observant Jews have been singled out in particular, especially in NYC, where Bill deBolshevik seemed to take great glee in targeting them.

Ergo, the biggest proponents of isolation, lockdowns, etc, could also be easily viewed as anti-Semites.

Just a thought.

[Pat]

Ergo, the biggest proponents of isolation, lockdowns, etc, could also be easily viewed as anti-Semites.

The lockdowns have also disproportionately affected the poor, including much larger percentages of minority groups like blacks and hispanics.

This is true but deceptive. It's the same technique NPR uses when they talk about anything negative, and then mention it disproportionately affects minorities, with the implication that it's another example of systemic racism. Except it isn't. It's a class thing. Poor people are disproportionately affected by almost everything, from climate change, to economic downturns, to lockdowns, and even things that are supposed to help them, like the rent moratorium. While you can make an argument that there is racial basis for wealth differences (it's another one of those complicated issues), the proximate cause is poverty not race, and it can only be fixed by addressing poverty not by blaming everything on racism.

[Mistwell]

https://www.wsmv.com/news/new-vanderbilt-health-data-shows-difference-in-hospitalizations-between-vaccinated-unvaccinated/article_8d6a8464-0fe0-11ec-aad5-5302ae60b1dd.html

Oops.

Take your mask mandate and shove it up your ass.

What is it you think that link is showing? It appears to be showing the vaccine works really well.

[Mistwell]

Bernie Sanders agrees with you that class issues subsume racial and other minority and identity issues.