Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.

[Pat]

I'm not interested in arguing banal things or insulting each other.

You're also not interested in a discussion. All you're doing is throwing up a smorgasbord of statements in other people's words, rather than making a coherent argument yourself.

Not at all, and you know it. I offered evidence in the way I could (and I have more and more); What else do you expect me to do? All you and the other guy did was mock me for "conspiracy theorist" and now you say I'm not open for a reasonable discussion?

You live in a world that is increasingly globalist and anti-nationalist, and literally heads of state stating this is their official policy. What makes it so far fetched to think the same project is still ongoing? Need I give more examples or will you ignore them?

Evidence of what? You haven't made your position clear. You're mostly posting quotes from other people, and reacting to any criticism by claiming victimhood and pretending to be a misunderstood genius. You clearly haven't read a word I've written, because in my first reply to you, and in more than a couple posts since, I've criticized globalism. So where exactly do you disagree with me? I have no idea, because you haven't responded to anything I've said in a way that clarifies your position vis-a-vis mine. Instead, what you've been doing is creating strawmen, even if they completely go against my actual statements.

What I specifically objected to in your first post as the part where you claimed that covid-19 was an excuse for a socialist, world-wide government. While I believe (and I stated in my first reply) that covid-19 has been used an excuse to trample on civil liberties while increasing governmental power, you have the cause and effect and backwards. This is exploiting a crisis, not a crisis fabricated for a specific end. It's also not aimed at world-wide government. Or, as you implied but didn't state, it's also not a planned conspiracy. This is just a bunch of individual actors, from similar schools of thought, acting independently in ways that increase their power. There's nothing secret about it, or coordinated in any real practical way, beyond set of related ideologies, intellectual traditions, and progressive theorizing.

[oggsmash]

  Seems more like a Homer Simpson blunder that Mister Burns uses to control the town and make more money.

[SonTodoGato]

Greetings!

Lots of Globalist slaves are eager for a one-world government. These people love the Kalergi Plan and Agenda 2030. Fuck these Globalist, Marxist scum. They need to be resisted at every opportunity.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Glad there's more of us around here. Agenda 2030 is nothing but the process towards international socialism. The UN was founded by socialists (Churchill and Roosevelt were closeted socialists and I can offer some evidence) and the Kalergi Plan is nothing other than the elimination of ethnic and national identity through "diversity". This has been the explicit goal of Freemasonry, and I can prove it.

This "deadly" virus gave them the perfect opportunity; global warming wasn't enough (admitted by the Club of Rome, a made-up crisis to unite humanity against a common enemy). Global problems require global solutions. Mandatory vaccines and biometric and digital surveillance (ID2020); otherwise you're putting us all at risk!!!! Transition to traceable, digital currencies (ideal for rationing meat, deplatforming "extremists" and banning guns) because cash became toxic. UBI so everyone depends on the state for allowance. Abolishing national sovereignty because viruses and climate change. It's all a step towards international social credit system.

Evidence of what? You haven't made your position clear. You're mostly posting quotes from other people, and reacting to any criticism by claiming victimhood and pretending to be a misunderstood genius. You clearly haven't read a word I've written, because in my first reply to you, and in more than a couple posts since, I've criticized globalism. So where exactly do you disagree with me? I have no idea, because you haven't responded to anything I've said in a way that clarifies your position vis-a-vis mine. Instead, what you've been doing is creating strawmen, even if they completely go against my actual statements.

What I specifically objected to in your first post as the part where you claimed that covid-19 was an excuse for a socialist, world-wide government. While I believe (and I stated in my first reply) that covid-19 has been used an excuse to trample on civil liberties while increasing governmental power, you have the cause and effect and backwards. This is exploiting a crisis, not a crisis fabricated for a specific end. It's also not aimed at world-wide government. Or, as you implied but didn't state, it's also not a planned conspiracy. This is just a bunch of individual actors, from similar schools of thought, acting independently in ways that increase their power. There's nothing secret about it, or coordinated in any real practical way, beyond set of related ideologies, intellectual traditions, and progressive theorizing.

You only stated your personal opinion; I did that and posted evidence that backs me up.

I think you're the one who's got it backwards. This is a made-up crisis. The virus is manmade, the statistics are fraudulent and the media fueled the panic. Notice how it's pushing towards international, biometric surveillance in the form of vaccine passports, increasing the authority of the WHO, and shifting the economy towards digital currencies over cash and UBI. It's the "great reset"; a virus showed us how capitalism doesn't work because the government locked you up for your own good, so we need radical reforms because of covid. It's just a coincidence that it happened shortly after we did Event 201, gain of function research on bat coronaviruses in Wuhan, ID2020, "build back better", "great reset" and "you'll own nothing and you'll be happy" by 2030; casually the UN has an Agenda 2030 to make the world "sustainable and inclusive", and it's secretary general is Antonio Guterres, head of the international socialist, which advocated for world government by strengthening the UN!

Here's my position: There is a very old agenda to unite the world under a global regime. It went by many names; the "great work", "brotherhood of man", "new world order", "new age", "great reset", "the universal reformation of man", "the age of saturn", "the messianic era", the "third age" of Joachim de Fiore, etc. The expression "new world order" has been used by people like Marx, H.G. Wells, Rosika Schwimmer and others to mean, specifically, a world government with socialist tendencies.

[Pat]

Evidence of what? You haven't made your position clear. You're mostly posting quotes from other people, and reacting to any criticism by claiming victimhood and pretending to be a misunderstood genius. You clearly haven't read a word I've written, because in my first reply to you, and in more than a couple posts since, I've criticized globalism. So where exactly do you disagree with me? I have no idea, because you haven't responded to anything I've said in a way that clarifies your position vis-a-vis mine. Instead, what you've been doing is creating strawmen, even if they completely go against my actual statements.

What I specifically objected to in your first post as the part where you claimed that covid-19 was an excuse for a socialist, world-wide government. While I believe (and I stated in my first reply) that covid-19 has been used an excuse to trample on civil liberties while increasing governmental power, you have the cause and effect and backwards. This is exploiting a crisis, not a crisis fabricated for a specific end. It's also not aimed at world-wide government. Or, as you implied but didn't state, it's also not a planned conspiracy. This is just a bunch of individual actors, from similar schools of thought, acting independently in ways that increase their power. There's nothing secret about it, or coordinated in any real practical way, beyond set of related ideologies, intellectual traditions, and progressive theorizing.

You only stated your personal opinion; I did that and posted evidence that backs me up.

I think you're the one who's got it backwards. This is a made-up crisis. The virus is manmade, the statistics are fraudulent and the media fueled the panic. Notice how it's pushing towards international, biometric surveillance in the form of vaccine passports, increasing the authority of the WHO, and shifting the economy towards digital currencies over cash and UBI. It's the "great reset"; a virus showed us how capitalism doesn't work because the government locked you up for your own good, so we need radical reforms because of covid. It's just a coincidence that it happened shortly after we did Event 201, gain of function research on bat coronaviruses in Wuhan, ID2020, "build back better", "great reset" and "you'll own nothing and you'll be happy" by 2030; casually the UN has an Agenda 2030 to make the world "sustainable and inclusive", and it's secretary general is Antonio Guterres, head of the international socialist, which advocated for world government by strengthening the UN!

Here's my position: There is a very old agenda to unite the world under a global regime. It went by many names; the "great work", "brotherhood of man", "new world order", "new age", "great reset", "the universal reformation of man", "the age of saturn", "the messianic era", the "third age" of Joachim de Fiore, etc. The expression "new world order" has been used by people like Marx, H.G. Wells, Rosika Schwimmer and others to mean, specifically, a world government with socialist tendencies.

You absolutely did not post evidence that backs you up. Where, among all those highlighted passages, is the smoking gun that proves that not only did covid-19 escape from a lab, but that it was deliberately conceived of by a cabal of world leaders, who deliberately created and released it, with the intent to generate a worldwide crisis that would usher in a global socialist government?

Because that's what you actually claimed, and what Mistwell and I derided as a conspiracy theory. Of course, when I challenged you, you changed to that "some world leaders have said positive things about a world government". Which is absolutely not the claim you made.

Ironically, the things you quoted support my position a hell of lot more than yours, because I'm dealing with facts and straightforward, logical explanations that are plausible based on what we know of human behavior, and I don't feel any need to wrap them in convoluted and irrational conspiracy theories that actually end up serving the cause you profess to oppose, because critics can just point at you and say look at the kind of nonsense they believe!

[jhkim]

Here's my position: There is a very old agenda to unite the world under a global regime. It went by many names; the "great work", "brotherhood of man", "new world order", "new age", "great reset", "the universal reformation of man", "the age of saturn", "the messianic era", the "third age" of Joachim de Fiore, etc. The expression "new world order" has been used by people like Marx, H.G. Wells, Rosika Schwimmer and others to mean, specifically, a world government with socialist tendencies.

This might be more appropriate to another thread - but a ​world government isn't just a vision of H.G. Wells and Gene Roddenberry. We also see that as the vision in more conservative works like Heinlein's Starship Troopers, Buck Rogers, and others. Obviously, individual authors will picture the world government that fits more with their political leanings - but that there is a world government is very common.

I think the vision of a world government is pretty simple. As organization advances and communication improves, it pictures that humans get past their differences and no longer make war on each other, but instead learn to cooperate.

That fits with the general trend of history. In hunter-gatherer times, the highest level of organization was not much larger than the extended family. Over the course of history, larger and larger societies became possible and proved advantageous. It's a reasonable extrapolation that as communication and travel get even more advanced that we'll eventually get a world government.

[SonTodoGato]

You absolutely did not post evidence that backs you up. Where, among all those highlighted passages, is the smoking gun that proves that not only did covid-19 escape from a lab, but that it was deliberately conceived of by a cabal of world leaders, who deliberately created and released it, with the intent to generate a worldwide crisis that would usher in a global socialist government?

Because that's what you actually claimed, and what Mistwell and I derided as a conspiracy theory. Of course, when I challenged you, you changed to that "some world leaders have said positive things about a world government". Which is absolutely not the claim you made.

Ironically, the things you quoted support my position a hell of lot more than yours, because I'm dealing with facts and straightforward, logical explanations that are plausible based on what we know of human behavior, and I don't feel any need to wrap them in convoluted and irrational conspiracy theories that actually end up serving the cause you profess to oppose, because critics can just point at you and say look at the kind of nonsense they believe!

You're not dealing with anything other than your own comments. You did not post anything other than derision and personal opinions, and seek validation from others by mocking me. I showed you documents from the US government and the founders of the EU that explicitely say their goal is world government as official policy. It wasn't just opinions, as you insist.

Nothing I posted supports your position because you didn't say anything. You just stem from the assumption that it has to be irrational and delusional; It just cannot be true! And don't like when I show evidence, which you choose to ignore. Sit down and take some time to think about this and tell me why you're so sure they're not trying to create a world government.

You're right about this though: I cannot prove definitely that covid was manmade; nobody can. What I can point out to is the staggering coincidences that were fulfilled by covid, which you ignored because it's a lot easier to just go with what the media says than to actually question them.

Event 201, ID2020, Quantum dot tattoos, promotion of wearables and cybernetic implants by the WEF, Great reset, gain of function research on bat coronas in a Wuhan lab, biometrics and digital currencies. It happened very conveniently and you're seeing the results of the agenda, which falls in line with previous WEF and UN goals; transition to digital economy, ID2020, strengthening of globalism, biometric surveillance, UBI, etc. Need I post the articles about this which predate covid? It's up to you whether you think this is all a coincidence or whether governments are willing to lie to people.

[SonTodoGato]

Here's my position: There is a very old agenda to unite the world under a global regime. It went by many names; the "great work", "brotherhood of man", "new world order", "new age", "great reset", "the universal reformation of man", "the age of saturn", "the messianic era", the "third age" of Joachim de Fiore, etc. The expression "new world order" has been used by people like Marx, H.G. Wells, Rosika Schwimmer and others to mean, specifically, a world government with socialist tendencies.

This might be more appropriate to another thread - but a ​world government isn't just a vision of H.G. Wells and Gene Roddenberry. We also see that as the vision in more conservative works like Heinlein's Starship Troopers, Buck Rogers, and others. Obviously, individual authors will picture the world government that fits more with their political leanings - but that there is a world government is very common.

I think the vision of a world government is pretty simple. As organization advances and communication improves, it pictures that humans get past their differences and no longer make war on each other, but instead learn to cooperate.

That fits with the general trend of history. In hunter-gatherer times, the highest level of organization was not much larger than the extended family. Over the course of history, larger and larger societies became possible and proved advantageous. It's a reasonable extrapolation that as communication and travel get even more advanced that we'll eventually get a world government.

According to whom? Who says there is a natural progression of humanity towards unity or government?

This has a name; whig historiography. The idea that history is a liner process towards "progress" and therefore anything past is necessarily bad. It assumes government means progress as well. Take a look at history and you'll see that governments get more and more unstable as they grow, until they finally collapse.

And why would world government be a good thing? Since when is government a solution to anything? If anything, it will be an unaccountable bureaucracy whose laws and taxes cannot be evaded.

[Shasarak]

I'm not interested in arguing banal things or insulting each other.

You're also not interested in a discussion. All you're doing is throwing up a smorgasbord of statements in other people's words, rather than making a coherent argument yourself.

Not at all, and you know it. I offered evidence in the way I could (and I have more and more); What else do you expect me to do? All you and the other guy did was mock me for "conspiracy theorist" and now you say I'm not open for a reasonable discussion?

You live in a world that is increasingly globalist and anti-nationalist, and literally heads of state stating this is their official policy. What makes it so far fetched to think the same project is still ongoing? Need I give more examples or will you ignore them?

The scorpion does not need to invent a virus to have an excuse to sting you.

It could be a day ending in y.

[SonTodoGato]

I'm not interested in arguing banal things or insulting each other.

You're also not interested in a discussion. All you're doing is throwing up a smorgasbord of statements in other people's words, rather than making a coherent argument yourself.

Not at all, and you know it. I offered evidence in the way I could (and I have more and more); What else do you expect me to do? All you and the other guy did was mock me for "conspiracy theorist" and now you say I'm not open for a reasonable discussion?

You live in a world that is increasingly globalist and anti-nationalist, and literally heads of state stating this is their official policy. What makes it so far fetched to think the same project is still ongoing? Need I give more examples or will you ignore them?

The scorpion does not need to invent a virus to have an excuse to sting you.

It could be a day ending in y.

They don't need it but there is no guarantee they wouldn't.

[Pat]

You absolutely did not post evidence that backs you up. Where, among all those highlighted passages, is the smoking gun that proves that not only did covid-19 escape from a lab, but that it was deliberately conceived of by a cabal of world leaders, who deliberately created and released it, with the intent to generate a worldwide crisis that would usher in a global socialist government?

Because that's what you actually claimed, and what Mistwell and I derided as a conspiracy theory. Of course, when I challenged you, you changed to that "some world leaders have said positive things about a world government". Which is absolutely not the claim you made.

Ironically, the things you quoted support my position a hell of lot more than yours, because I'm dealing with facts and straightforward, logical explanations that are plausible based on what we know of human behavior, and I don't feel any need to wrap them in convoluted and irrational conspiracy theories that actually end up serving the cause you profess to oppose, because critics can just point at you and say look at the kind of nonsense they believe!

You're not dealing with anything other than your own comments. You did not post anything other than derision and personal opinions, and seek validation from others by mocking me. I showed you documents from the US government and the founders of the EU that explicitely say their goal is world government as official policy. It wasn't just opinions, as you insist.

Nothing I posted supports your position because you didn't say anything. You just stem from the assumption that it has to be irrational and delusional; It just cannot be true! And don't like when I show evidence, which you choose to ignore. Sit down and take some time to think about this and tell me why you're so sure they're not trying to create a world government.

You're right about this though: I cannot prove definitely that covid was manmade; nobody can. What I can point out to is the staggering coincidences that were fulfilled by covid, which you ignored because it's a lot easier to just go with what the media says than to actually question them.

Event 201, ID2020, Quantum dot tattoos, promotion of wearables and cybernetic implants by the WEF, Great reset, gain of function research on bat coronas in a Wuhan lab, biometrics and digital currencies. It happened very conveniently and you're seeing the results of the agenda, which falls in line with previous WEF and UN goals; transition to digital economy, ID2020, strengthening of globalism, biometric surveillance, UBI, etc. Need I post the articles about this which predate covid? It's up to you whether you think this is all a coincidence or whether governments are willing to lie to people.

You're just blatantly lying now.

You're lying about that. You're also making up shit about my motives, which isn't so much a lie as a desperate attempt at projection. Even a cursory examination of my posts would show that I'm certainly not seeking validation from others, because I'm not exactly shy about taking contrary positions, and I oppose everyone on the board at one time or another. You're also lying when you said I didn't state my positions -- I have, repeatedly. Let's start with this specific claim of yours:

"Sit down and take some time to think about this and tell me why you're so sure they're not trying to create a world government."

This is my first reply to you:

But it's impossible to dispute that covid-19 has been used an excuse to expand government powers and curtail civil liberties to an extent that was unimaginable just two years ago. That doesn't require any conspiracy theories, just simple observation and the recognition that people in power tend to act in ways that increase their own power.

This is the second post where I replied to you:

The idea that a bunch of people have argued in favor of a one world government isn't controversial.

This wasn't addressed at you, but it was in between all these posts:

It's a raw exercise in power, and another step in the continual erosion of national independence in favor of global "standards" dictated by and for the benefit of the most powerful actors on the world stage. The US wants more tax receipts, but they don't want to make the US more attractive to corporations by lowering taxes, so they can't allow other countries to do it either.

In other words, I've repeatedly stated that I believe there's a move toward centralization of power, and even explicitly agreed with you that a lot of people have suggested a world government. You've ignored literally everything I said, in order to claim I was saying the exact opposite of the words of mine that you were quoting.

You're feeling derided? You've earned it.

And you're wrong about covid, too. There's quite a bit of evidence that it was man-made. Not created from scratch, but augmented by gain of function. It's not just the unlikely "coincidence" of its origin next to one of the world's top 3 biolabs, or the cover-up, or the proof that the Fauci was indirectly funding gain of function at the lab. There are also suspicious markers in the genome that led a number of prominent virologists, shortly after the sequence was released, to say it was extremely unlikely to have occurred naturally. That's not definitive proof, but there's quite a bit of circumstantial evidence. But that doesn't mean there was some plot to release it. Hubris and carelessness is inordinately more likely.

[Pat]

I think the vision of a world government is pretty simple. As organization advances and communication improves, it pictures that humans get past their differences and no longer make war on each other, but instead learn to cooperate.

That fits with the general trend of history. In hunter-gatherer times, the highest level of organization was not much larger than the extended family. Over the course of history, larger and larger societies became possible and proved advantageous. It's a reasonable extrapolation that as communication and travel get even more advanced that we'll eventually get a world government.

That's incredibly superficial thinking.

And larger and larger societies have not proved advantageous. The prevailing theory for why Europe suddenly took off and eclipsed the rest of the world in science is that it happened because Europe was balkanized. Germany alone had 300+ states. It was the great diversity that led to the flowering of the Enlightenment, while monolithic empires often stagnated. And the great unification of the 20th century led to the first modern totalitarian states, and the worst repression and greatest death tolls in history. A more accurate statement would be something along the lines that, over history, larger and larger societies became possible as new techniques arose that allowed rulers greater and greater control over their people.

As I've said before, that's why I think the greatest x-risk the human race faces isn't some cosmic catastrophe or even the development of AI, but the emergence of a one world government with surveillance powers that make those in 1984 look childish. I don't see any way back from it.

[Zelen]

Long suspected this was happening, but this paper confirms it. Vaccine-related deaths are recorded as Covid deaths.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/352837543_Analysis_of_COVID-19_vaccine_death_reports_from_the_Vaccine_Adverse_Events_Reporting_System_VAERS_Database_Interim_Results_and_Analysis

[HappyDaze]

I'm not interested in arguing banal things or insulting each other.

You're also not interested in a discussion. All you're doing is throwing up a smorgasbord of statements in other people's words, rather than making a coherent argument yourself.

Not at all, and you know it. I offered evidence in the way I could (and I have more and more); What else do you expect me to do? All you and the other guy did was mock me for "conspiracy theorist" and now you say I'm not open for a reasonable discussion?

You live in a world that is increasingly globalist and anti-nationalist, and literally heads of state stating this is their official policy. What makes it so far fetched to think the same project is still ongoing? Need I give more examples or will you ignore them?

The scorpion does not need to invent a virus to have an excuse to sting you.

It could be a day ending in y.

They don't need it but there is no guarantee they wouldn't.

Have you considered making and selling your own line of pillows?

[SonTodoGato]

You're just blatantly lying now.

You're lying about that. You're also making up shit about my motives, which isn't so much a lie as a desperate attempt at projection. Even a cursory examination of my posts would show that I'm certainly not seeking validation from others, because I'm not exactly shy about taking contrary positions, and I oppose everyone on the board at one time or another. You're also lying when you said I didn't state my positions -- I have, repeatedly. Let's start with this specific claim of yours:

"Sit down and take some time to think about this and tell me why you're so sure they're not trying to create a world government."

This is my first reply to you:

But it's impossible to dispute that covid-19 has been used an excuse to expand government powers and curtail civil liberties to an extent that was unimaginable just two years ago. That doesn't require any conspiracy theories, just simple observation and the recognition that people in power tend to act in ways that increase their own power.

This is the second post where I replied to you:

The idea that a bunch of people have argued in favor of a one world government isn't controversial.

This wasn't addressed at you, but it was in between all these posts:

It's a raw exercise in power, and another step in the continual erosion of national independence in favor of global "standards" dictated by and for the benefit of the most powerful actors on the world stage. The US wants more tax receipts, but they don't want to make the US more attractive to corporations by lowering taxes, so they can't allow other countries to do it either.

In other words, I've repeatedly stated that I believe there's a move toward centralization of power, and even explicitly agreed with you that a lot of people have suggested a world government. You've ignored literally everything I said, in order to claim I was saying the exact opposite of the words of mine that you were quoting.

You're feeling derided? You've earned it.

And you're wrong about covid, too. There's quite a bit of evidence that it was man-made. Not created from scratch, but augmented by gain of function. It's not just the unlikely "coincidence" of its origin next to one of the world's top 3 biolabs, or the cover-up, or the proof that the Fauci was indirectly funding gain of function at the lab. There are also suspicious markers in the genome that led a number of prominent virologists, shortly after the sequence was released, to say it was extremely unlikely to have occurred naturally. That's not definitive proof, but there's quite a bit of circumstantial evidence. But that doesn't mean there was some plot to release it. Hubris and carelessness is inordinately more likely.

I had heard some scientists state that it is manmade, but there is no way to conclusively prove it was; at least I can't since I'm not a virologist. I do believe it is for many reasons (scientists saying it is, gain of function research, the fact that coronaviruses and bat soups have always been around and nobody noticed, how timely it is, how it requires more authoritarianism, etc.)

The question you should be asking is: If there are evidences that point to it being augmented... then why isn't China being blamed for being "careless" with the virus? Why is the media and the international community silent on that? All of them complied with quarantines and put their economies and lives at risk because of this... and nobody demands an explanation? Nobody is asking China for compensations because of their mistake?

That being said, if you do believe people work to centralize their power against the people's best interests and would take advantage of a crisis to increase their power... What's stopping them from wanting to install a world government to extend their influence worldwide? What's stopping them from releasing a virus to induce such a crisis? Absolutely nothing. What is so irrational about thinking the same people who pulled MKUltra, the Great Leap Forward, Holodomor, Operation Sea Spray, forced sterilizations and abortions, WMD in Iraq, KGB, CIA sting ops, lying media, 9/11, WW2, etc. would release a mostly harmless virus for political gain? No way, surely they wouldn't lie...

Take a look at the World Economic Forum's "predictions" for 2030. "You'll own nothing and you'll be happy"; a world in which everything is rented online. Why would they post that? Why the year 2030? Does it have anything to do with the Agenda 2030 of the United Nations, which is now being led by the head of the International Socialist, which openly stated they wanted world government by strengthening the United Nations?

If you stop to think about why they post those things you arrive to the conclusion that it wasn't a prediction but a planned goal.

[SonTodoGato]

As I've said before, that's why I think the greatest x-risk the human race faces isn't some cosmic catastrophe or even the development of AI, but the emergence of a one world government with surveillance powers that make those in 1984 look childish. I don't see any way back from it.

So you pretty much agree with me?