Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.

[Pat]

The gun stuff does goes back a couple decades at least, because the CDC tracks causes of death. While tackling social ills in general should be far beyond the remit of an agency focused on diseases, government bureaucracies never seem to to let common sense stand in the way of reinterpreting their mandate in ways that vastly expand their authority. (Cf. the eviction moratorium.)

Speaking of the CDC...
https://www.cdc.gov/healthcommunication/Preferred_Terms.html

That's a weird list. There are a couple places where it's suggesting more precision, and a few others where they're avoiding possibly offensive terms, but most of it seems to involve adding "people" to simple one-word terms for a group of people. You can't talk about the homeless, just people experiencing homelessness. I don't see the point.

[HappyDaze]

The gun stuff does goes back a couple decades at least, because the CDC tracks causes of death. While tackling social ills in general should be far beyond the remit of an agency focused on diseases, government bureaucracies never seem to to let common sense stand in the way of reinterpreting their mandate in ways that vastly expand their authority. (Cf. the eviction moratorium.)

Speaking of the CDC...
https://www.cdc.gov/healthcommunication/Preferred_Terms.html

That's a weird list. There are a couple places where it's suggesting more precision, and a few others where they're avoiding possibly offensive terms, but most of it seems to involve adding "people" to simple one-word terms for a group of people. You can't talk about the homeless, just people experiencing homelessness. I don't see the point.

I spent three months supervising the nursing department of a Florida state prison. We were told not to refer to our patients as "inmates" or "prisoners" but instead as "persons experiencing incarceration." That never caught on, but the few times someone said it, it had both the COs and the inmates laughing their asses off.

[Garry G]

And are there other vaccines that do not prevent you from getting infected, but rather mitigate your symptoms?

The flu jab is the other fake vaccine that doesn't actually give immunity.

The measles vaccine is 93% effective.   So yes you can contract measles after getting the jab.
The reason it is so rare to see a measles case is that the virus is now pretty rare here in the US. 
On the other hand the mumps vaccine is only 78% effective and you do see localized outbreaks of mumps.
These vaccines are different in that they are weakened strains of the live virus.
The problem with all vaccines in general is they often don't work well in people who have severely compromised immune systems.

No they're not perfect, but they provide immunity. They stop you contracting the virus.

There are always outliers, the immunocompromised, but also random individual instances of vaccines just not taking.

And some viruses like corona and influenza are able to mutate quite rapidly and evade attempts at creating vaccines.

Ironic, you mention the two viruses which don't have real vaccines. Neither the flu jab, nor the 'rona jabs give immunity. Instead there's this unmeasurable, pretend measure of "reducing your symptoms".

Except that the flu jab does work. I took ten minutes to explain how it works to my eight year olds today and they got it so mibbe you can.

You're right in that it isn't a universal cure all, the flu is a nasty bugger and on some years a variant will slip through that causes chaos and death.

Generally it works by vastly reducing deaths and hospital admissions. There are still many if both, which is terrible, but less people dying is generally seen as a good thing by sane people and less people in hospital, particularly ICU, is also generally seen as good.

The ICU thing is particularly good because hospitals like to have ICU beds free just in case somebody needs a bed. They like to run on about 80 to 90% capacity to give space for emergencies.

Now you might think that this doesn't affect you. You're a fit man in early middle age who doesn't need a flu shot. In general I agree with this, I don't bother myself. The problem is that flu season also coincides with festive stuff which means a massive rise in accidents. Those ICU beds are getting shorter in supply and everybodies risk of random accidents is going up. You're more at risk of accident by other people or just random shite like an aneurysm which doesn't give a shite about how far you ran this morning. It's all cool though because there's another ICU an hour down the road and that delay won't affect a bleed on the brain.

Essentially the flu vaccine doesn't have the fantastic shift in mortality that other vaccines do but it saves thousands of lives per year. That seems a good thing to me.

[Ratman_tf]

And are there other vaccines that do not prevent you from getting infected, but rather mitigate your symptoms?

The flu jab is the other fake vaccine that doesn't actually give immunity.

The measles vaccine is 93% effective.   So yes you can contract measles after getting the jab.
The reason it is so rare to see a measles case is that the virus is now pretty rare here in the US. 
On the other hand the mumps vaccine is only 78% effective and you do see localized outbreaks of mumps.
These vaccines are different in that they are weakened strains of the live virus.
The problem with all vaccines in general is they often don't work well in people who have severely compromised immune systems.

No they're not perfect, but they provide immunity. They stop you contracting the virus.

There are always outliers, the immunocompromised, but also random individual instances of vaccines just not taking.

And some viruses like corona and influenza are able to mutate quite rapidly and evade attempts at creating vaccines.

Ironic, you mention the two viruses which don't have real vaccines. Neither the flu jab, nor the 'rona jabs give immunity. Instead there's this unmeasurable, pretend measure of "reducing your symptoms".

Except that the flu jab does work. I took ten minutes to explain how it works to my eight year olds today and they got it so mibbe you can.

You're right in that it isn't a universal cure all, the flu is a nasty bugger and on some years a variant will slip through that causes chaos and death.

Generally it works by vastly reducing deaths and hospital admissions. There are still many if both, which is terrible, but less people dying is generally seen as a good thing by sane people and less people in hospital, particularly ICU, is also generally seen as good.

The ICU thing is particularly good because hospitals like to have ICU beds free just in case somebody needs a bed. They like to run on about 80 to 90% capacity to give space for emergencies.

Now you might think that this doesn't affect you. You're a fit man in early middle age who doesn't need a flu shot. In general I agree with this, I don't bother myself. The problem is that flu season also coincides with festive stuff which means a massive rise in accidents. Those ICU beds are getting shorter in supply and everybodies risk of random accidents is going up. You're more at risk of accident by other people or just random shite like an aneurysm which doesn't give a shite about how far you ran this morning. It's all cool though because there's another ICU an hour down the road and that delay won't affect a bleed on the brain.

Essentially the flu vaccine doesn't have the fantastic shift in mortality that other vaccines do but it saves thousands of lives per year. That seems a good thing to me.

ICU beds is getting old. If the staff have the time to dance on Tik Tok, they have the time to manage their capacity during a pandemic. Sucks that the hospital wouldn't be ablte to squeeze another few percentages of profit out of maximizing their capacity, but hey, we're all in this together, right?

I agree that flu vaccinations are a good thing. What I don't agree with (not your argument, but the argument made) is that the deaths justify panic, authoritarian oppression and lying from the government and medical establishment.

[Zelen]

So we don't hear much about Sweden these days. It used to be pretty common to talk about how desirable the Scandinavian model was.



By now Sweden is only discussed in hushed tones. A country that didn't lock down, didn't mandate masks, and operated more-or-less as normal throughout all of 2020. The prevailing narrative I've heard about Sweden is that Sweden fared much worse than its neighboring countries.



One of the strangest things is that Sweden has one of the most aggressive Covid-classification metrics. In Sweden any death for any reason within 30 days of a positive Covid test is considered a Covid death.



Now I have no doubt that the Swedish population as a whole is healthier than the US population, but it's really puzzling how this works out. However, one of the most shocking things to me wasn't that Sweden fared better than most other countries through the 2020 hysteria. It's that Sweden fared better through the 2020 hysteria than it did through most prior years.



Sincerely, what.

[dkabq]

So we don't hear much about Sweden these days. It used to be pretty common to talk about how desirable the Scandinavian model was.

I thought that Sweden was a mask-less, no-lockdown, hellscape, and that the entire population died of covid -- hence the 0 deaths 7-day average.

Or maybe they reached herd immunity?

[HappyDaze]

And are there other vaccines that do not prevent you from getting infected, but rather mitigate your symptoms?

The flu jab is the other fake vaccine that doesn't actually give immunity.

The measles vaccine is 93% effective.   So yes you can contract measles after getting the jab.
The reason it is so rare to see a measles case is that the virus is now pretty rare here in the US. 
On the other hand the mumps vaccine is only 78% effective and you do see localized outbreaks of mumps.
These vaccines are different in that they are weakened strains of the live virus.
The problem with all vaccines in general is they often don't work well in people who have severely compromised immune systems.

No they're not perfect, but they provide immunity. They stop you contracting the virus.

There are always outliers, the immunocompromised, but also random individual instances of vaccines just not taking.

And some viruses like corona and influenza are able to mutate quite rapidly and evade attempts at creating vaccines.

Ironic, you mention the two viruses which don't have real vaccines. Neither the flu jab, nor the 'rona jabs give immunity. Instead there's this unmeasurable, pretend measure of "reducing your symptoms".

Except that the flu jab does work. I took ten minutes to explain how it works to my eight year olds today and they got it so mibbe you can.

You're right in that it isn't a universal cure all, the flu is a nasty bugger and on some years a variant will slip through that causes chaos and death.

Generally it works by vastly reducing deaths and hospital admissions. There are still many if both, which is terrible, but less people dying is generally seen as a good thing by sane people and less people in hospital, particularly ICU, is also generally seen as good.

The ICU thing is particularly good because hospitals like to have ICU beds free just in case somebody needs a bed. They like to run on about 80 to 90% capacity to give space for emergencies.

Now you might think that this doesn't affect you. You're a fit man in early middle age who doesn't need a flu shot. In general I agree with this, I don't bother myself. The problem is that flu season also coincides with festive stuff which means a massive rise in accidents. Those ICU beds are getting shorter in supply and everybodies risk of random accidents is going up. You're more at risk of accident by other people or just random shite like an aneurysm which doesn't give a shite about how far you ran this morning. It's all cool though because there's another ICU an hour down the road and that delay won't affect a bleed on the brain.

Essentially the flu vaccine doesn't have the fantastic shift in mortality that other vaccines do but it saves thousands of lives per year. That seems a good thing to me.

ICU beds is getting old. If the staff have the time to dance on Tik Tok, they have the time to manage their capacity during a pandemic. Sucks that the hospital wouldn't be ablte to squeeze another few percentages of profit out of maximizing their capacity, but hey, we're all in this together, right?

I agree that flu vaccinations are a good thing. What I don't agree with (not your argument, but the argument made) is that the deaths justify panic, authoritarian oppression and lying from the government and medical establishment.

You're really stuck on this Tik Tok thing. How many man-hours/week are ICU nurses putting into it, and where are they located? Please show your source.

[Mistwell]

Well, I got a notice on my door that someone in the apartment complex got the Coronavirus. Honestly, I expected someone to have already had it by now. But what I found most interesting, and this notice is clearly dated 8/27/2021:

There is no vaccine for novel coronavirus. People who traveled to or from China or were in close contact with someone who was infected and developed a fever and respriatory symptoms within 14 days of their travel  or exposure should seek immediate medical care.

Typed verbatim from the notice. bold emphasis is mine.
Not quite sure what to make of that.

I am guessing they are simply re-using the same notice they got somewhere else which was written in mid 2019.

[Mistwell]

Once again, you're the dumbest guy around here. The effectiveness of the Covid vaccines IN THE SIX MONTHS AFTER THE FIRST DOSE is very similar to the effectiveness of the Measles vaccine. However, IT WEARS OFF FASTER thus the 66% number which is falling BECAUSE MORE PEOPLE ARE PASSING THE 6 MONTH POINT SINCE THEIR LAST DOSE WITHOUT A BOOSTER.

Shit my 10 year old comprehends this better than you.

And the Measles shot has the exact percentages I posted above. It is not in fact 100%. You believing it to be that effective does not change the actual effectiveness which has been proven out for decades and decades now.

Says the moron who doesn't understand the difference between a vaccine, which prevents infection, and not-a-vaccine, which does precisely fuck all. The measles vaccine STOPS YOU GETTING INFECTED (not quite 100% of the time). The covid jabs DO NOT PREVENT INFECTION (ever - ok maybe around 1% of the time).

I get it, though. You're 50-something, probably overweight and inactive, likely suffering from several co-morbidities already. So you're scared.

OK genius, do you know what the RR rating is on the MMR vaccine for measles?

"The vaccine effectiveness for measles prevention was calculated to be 95% after a single dose (RR: .05, 95% CI, .02—.13. Vaccine effectiveness was 96% after administration of 2 doses (RR .04, 95% CI .01—.28). Among household contacts, the effectiveness of vaccination to prevent transmission to other children after a single dose was 81% (RR 0.19, 95% CI .04— .89), 85% after 2 doses, and 96% after 3 doses (RR .04, 95% CI .01–.23)."

Now compare those numbers to the numbers you discussed earlier in this thread regarding the Covid vax, for the first 6 months of that vaccine.

In fact the MMR vaccine is less effective against mumps than the Covid vaccine is against Covid in the first 6 months. ("72% effective after 1 dose (RR .24, 95% CI .08— .76) and 86% after 2 doses (RR .12, 95% CI .04–.35)."

Oh and by the way the measles vaccine ALSO EXPERIENCES BREAKTHROUGH CASES and ALSO PROVIDES FOR A MORE MILD CASE OF THE MEASLES. In fact it was a series of breakthrough measles cases in the late 1980s which led to the two dose regimen we use today to help reduce those breakthrough cases though they can and do still happen.

For for me personally, no I have no comorbidities.  I have high blood pressure controlled by a light dose of some meds but that doesn't seem to be a comorbidity and my weight and other health issues are all pretty good. My wife also had Covid (before a vaccine was available) and I didn't get it and she did fine with it and it was rather mild. Thanks for asking. 

[Ratman_tf]

Well, I got a notice on my door that someone in the apartment complex got the Coronavirus. Honestly, I expected someone to have already had it by now. But what I found most interesting, and this notice is clearly dated 8/27/2021:

There is no vaccine for novel coronavirus. People who traveled to or from China or were in close contact with someone who was infected and developed a fever and respriatory symptoms within 14 days of their travel  or exposure should seek immediate medical care.

Typed verbatim from the notice. bold emphasis is mine.
Not quite sure what to make of that.

I am guessing they are simply re-using the same notice they got somewhere else which was written in mid 2019.

That's what I thought as well.
I have to wonder why they'd recycle an old notice. It was one page, double sided. It's not like it would have taken much time to create a new notice.

[SonTodoGato]

Where were you when you realized the covid scandal was just an excuse for a one-world, totalitarian, socialist government?

[Mistwell]

Where were you when you realized the covid scandal was just an excuse for a one-world, totalitarian, socialist government?

Oh good lord, what a heaping mound of conspiracy theory nonsense.

[Pat]

Where were you when you realized the covid scandal was just an excuse for a one-world, totalitarian, socialist government?

Oh good lord, what a heaping mound of conspiracy theory nonsense.

Yeah, that's a lot of conspiracy theory nonsense.

But it's impossible to dispute that covid-19 has been used an excuse to expand government powers and curtail civil liberties to an extent that was unimaginable just two years ago. That doesn't require any conspiracy theories, just simple observation and the recognition that people in power tend to act in ways that increase their own power.

[SonTodoGato]

Where were you when you realized the covid scandal was just an excuse for a one-world, totalitarian, socialist government?

Oh good lord, what a heaping mound of conspiracy theory nonsense.

Where were you when you realized the covid scandal was just an excuse for a one-world, totalitarian, socialist government?

Oh good lord, what a heaping mound of conspiracy theory nonsense.

Yeah, that's a lot of conspiracy theory nonsense.

But it's impossible to dispute that covid-19 has been used an excuse to expand government powers and curtail civil liberties to an extent that was unimaginable just two years ago. That doesn't require any conspiracy theories, just simple observation and the recognition that people in power tend to act in ways that increase their own power.

Yeah, that's a lot of conspiracy theory nonsense.

But it's impossible to dispute that covid-19 has been used an excuse to expand government powers and curtail civil liberties to an extent that was unimaginable just two years ago. That doesn't require any conspiracy theories, just simple observation and the recognition that people in power tend to act in ways that increase their own power.

The creation of a world government was the explicit goal of people like Churchill, Kalergi and H.G. Wells, De Gaulle, Truman, the institution of Freemasonry, Messianism, New Age, Mormonism, Baha'i and even the official policy of the US after WW2, the Fabian Society, the International Socialist, Fidel Castro, Gandhi, Einstein, Ben Gurion, NATO and many others.

If you want evidence, I can offer it to you. But I reckon you won't be willing to accept it.

[oggsmash]

 Never let a crisis go to waste.  Said the dude right out loud.  Not too conspiratorial.