Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.

[oggsmash]

False.

Aw, you got your "fact checking" liars, paid for by Big Pharma again.

That's also false. Good lord you hold the record for sheer amount of complete bullshit you spew on a daily basis. "Two doses of MMR vaccine are about 97% effective at preventing measles; one dose is about 93% effective." Note that's pretty close to the effectiveness of the Covid vaccine with the 6 months after the second shot. However, the Covid vaccine is wearing off much faster than the Measles shot, so far. You also get boosters for the MMR (and I just got one last month by coincidence) but they're much MUCH further apart (many years) than the Covid vaccine.

Bullshit, the efficacy of the covid jabs is currently rated at around 66% and falling - and that for the new fake measure of "efficacy".

The measles vaccine actually stops you getting measles.

I know that in early 2021 we were told that the vaccine did not prevent you from getting covid, but that it greatly reduced the severity of symptoms. That would seem to be consistent with St Fauci saying that vaccinated and unvaccinated people carry the same nasal viral load.

So it seems that the covid vaccine, while having a positive effect, does not work like all(?) other vaccines. For example, if you are vaccinated against measles and are exposed to it, you either don't get infected (vaccine worked) or you do get infected (vaccine failed). But if you are vaccinated against covid and exposed to it, you do get infected but your symptoms are mitigated (vaccine worked) or you do get infected but your symptoms are not mitigated (vaccine failed). Or is there an event tree branch for vaccinated against covid and do not get infected (contrary to St Fauci)?

And are there other vaccines that do not prevent you from getting infected, but rather mitigate your symptoms?

Sure, you can be exposed and not get infected. This is true whether you are vaccinated or not, but the data on how much influence the various vaccines have on this outcome is hard to nail down.

Even with consistent PPE use, I have been in prolonged close contact with > 100 symptomatic C19 patients, and as of two days ago I'm still testing negative. Is it because I'm vaccinated? Maybe. Even if the vaccine is just a +1 on my saving throw, I'll take that bonus considering how often I'm rolling that save. I'm surprised how many gamers here aren't grabbing up that easy +1 bonus.

  Your blood type would not happen to be O+ would it?

[oggsmash]

And are there other vaccines that do not prevent you from getting infected, but rather mitigate your symptoms?

Yes.  Here's the thing - defining 'infected' is hard.  You have an immune system.  You're exposed to 'infections' all the time.  Most of the time, your immune system kills the infection before it overwhelms your systems.  Sometimes it happens before it enters your body (like when mucus in your nasal passage contains and kills a virus) and sometimes it happens after (a white blood cell recognizes it as an infection and murders it before it replicates).  Since there are a lot of ways for an infection to be killed, there are a lot of ways that antibodies can help you. 

Ideally, if you've been vaccinated, your body does a better job of recognizing the infection BEFORE it hijacks a cell and starts replicating.  The more times you're exposed, the more likely one slips through.  If one slips through but your body is pretty good at recognizing them, they'll mostly stop them from hijacking other cells.  It's a cascade effect.

Best option - don't get sick.  Get the vaccine and wear a mask at indoor gatherings with strangers.  If you do get sick, isolate to stop the spread.  Hope that if you get sick, it's a relatively minor case because your immune system is up to the task of defending you (maybe with the help of the antibodies generated by the vaccine).

  You mean wear a respirator/gas mask indoors around people, otherwise you are larping.

[dkabq]

And are there other vaccines that do not prevent you from getting infected, but rather mitigate your symptoms?

Yes.  Here's the thing - defining 'infected' is hard. 

Just curious, which specific vaccines do not prevent you from getting infected, but only mitigate your symptoms?

[dkabq]

And are there other vaccines that do not prevent you from getting infected, but rather mitigate your symptoms?

Yes.  Here's the thing - defining 'infected' is hard.  You have an immune system.  You're exposed to 'infections' all the time.  Most of the time, your immune system kills the infection before it overwhelms your systems.  Sometimes it happens before it enters your body (like when mucus in your nasal passage contains and kills a virus) and sometimes it happens after (a white blood cell recognizes it as an infection and murders it before it replicates).  Since there are a lot of ways for an infection to be killed, there are a lot of ways that antibodies can help you. 

Ideally, if you've been vaccinated, your body does a better job of recognizing the infection BEFORE it hijacks a cell and starts replicating.  The more times you're exposed, the more likely one slips through.  If one slips through but your body is pretty good at recognizing them, they'll mostly stop them from hijacking other cells.  It's a cascade effect.

Best option - don't get sick.  Get the vaccine and wear a mask at indoor gatherings with strangers.  If you do get sick, isolate to stop the spread.  Hope that if you get sick, it's a relatively minor case because your immune system is up to the task of defending you (maybe with the help of the antibodies generated by the vaccine).

  You mean wear a respirator/gas mask indoors around people, otherwise you are larping.

I agree with oggsmash on this one, with some caveats.

If you are going to be cheek-to-jowl with someone (like my wife working with patients), then even a non-respirator mask will buy you something. Otherwise, while a mask will catch the large aerosols from your sneeze or cough (albeit then leaving your with a faceful of snot and/or spit), a handkerchief or a tissue would do as well.

However, if your mask does not fit air-tight (like a properly fitted, properly worn N-95) it doesn't take much bypass area for the majority of flow to bypass the filter material. And the small aerosols (virus sized) will follow the airflow. So if you are just sitting or talking (without spraying) a mask doesn't do much to protect you or protect others from you. That's why pre-covid masks were not recommended for the general public to wear to prevent the flu.

And to put a point on "air-tight", my wife would come home with bruised cheeks from her N-95 mask.

Reducing the number of people in a given volume and having high rate volume turn-over are going to be more effective at reducing the virus concentration than wearing a mask.

[Mistwell]

  I thought vaccines prevent infections.  So now the metric for vaccines is preventing hospitalizations or death?  With a virus with a less than 1 percent death rate?  I think it is great if it can save a person's life.  I think the people at risk can consider if it is right for them.  I do not think calling a therapeutic a vaccine is being completely honest though.

Vaccinations reduce (but do not eliminate 100%) infections. Vaccinations reduce (but do not eliminate 100%) hospitalizations. Vaccinations reduce (but nearly eliminate 100%) deaths. Over time, vaccinations wear off and will need a booster. Covid also comes with risks which are beyond just the risk of death with long covid being a real thing and long term possibly lifetime damage likely being a thing. Pretending if you don't die then it is just a big nothingburger is disingenuous.

How does "Vaccinations reduce (but do not eliminate 100%) infections" jibe with St Fauci's declaration that the nasal viral load of people vaccinated is the same as people unvaccinated? Or should the statement be "Vaccinations can reduce the severity of the effects of infections"?

Because:

1) Fully vaccinated people with breakthrough infections from this variant appear to be infectious for a shorter period.
2) Vaccines continue to reduce a person's risk of contracting the virus that cause COVID-19, including this variant.

So the odds you get the virus through a breakthrough case (mild or not) are lower with the vaccine which lowers the odds you will spread it, and the length of time you're contagious if you do end up as a breakthrough case appears to be shorter.

Interesting. I had not heard any of that.

So your chances of getting covid are less, but if you get it, you are carrying the same nasal viral load as a non-vaccinated person (per St Fauci), but the duration you are carrying the same nasal viral load (as a non-vaccinated person) is shorter?

Yes, at least according to the latest information.

[Mistwell]

False.

Aw, you got your "fact checking" liars, paid for by Big Pharma again.

That's also false. Good lord you hold the record for sheer amount of complete bullshit you spew on a daily basis. "Two doses of MMR vaccine are about 97% effective at preventing measles; one dose is about 93% effective." Note that's pretty close to the effectiveness of the Covid vaccine with the 6 months after the second shot. However, the Covid vaccine is wearing off much faster than the Measles shot, so far. You also get boosters for the MMR (and I just got one last month by coincidence) but they're much MUCH further apart (many years) than the Covid vaccine.

Bullshit, the efficacy of the covid jabs is currently rated at around 66% and falling - and that for the new fake measure of "efficacy".

The measles vaccine actually stops you getting measles.

Once again, you're the dumbest guy around here. The effectiveness of the Covid vaccines IN THE SIX MONTHS AFTER THE FIRST DOSE is very similar to the effectiveness of the Measles vaccine. However, IT WEARS OFF FASTER thus the 66% number which is falling BECAUSE MORE PEOPLE ARE PASSING THE 6 MONTH POINT SINCE THEIR LAST DOSE WITHOUT A BOOSTER.

Shit my 10 year old comprehends this better than you.

And the Measles shot has the exact percentages I posted above. It is not in fact 100%. You believing it to be that effective does not change the actual effectiveness which has been proven out for decades and decades now.

[Mistwell]

And are there other vaccines that do not prevent you from getting infected, but rather mitigate your symptoms?

Yes.  Here's the thing - defining 'infected' is hard.  You have an immune system.  You're exposed to 'infections' all the time.  Most of the time, your immune system kills the infection before it overwhelms your systems.  Sometimes it happens before it enters your body (like when mucus in your nasal passage contains and kills a virus) and sometimes it happens after (a white blood cell recognizes it as an infection and murders it before it replicates).  Since there are a lot of ways for an infection to be killed, there are a lot of ways that antibodies can help you. 

Ideally, if you've been vaccinated, your body does a better job of recognizing the infection BEFORE it hijacks a cell and starts replicating.  The more times you're exposed, the more likely one slips through.  If one slips through but your body is pretty good at recognizing them, they'll mostly stop them from hijacking other cells.  It's a cascade effect.

Best option - don't get sick.  Get the vaccine and wear a mask at indoor gatherings with strangers.  If you do get sick, isolate to stop the spread.  Hope that if you get sick, it's a relatively minor case because your immune system is up to the task of defending you (maybe with the help of the antibodies generated by the vaccine).

  You mean wear a respirator/gas mask indoors around people, otherwise you are larping.

Speaking of which I just re-watched one of the Batman movies and I really want a face mask which looks like Ra's ahl Ghul's facemask.

[Pat]

Ah yes, Liam Neeson eating a stapler.

[Ratman_tf]

And are there other vaccines that do not prevent you from getting infected, but rather mitigate your symptoms?

Yes.  Here's the thing - defining 'infected' is hard.  You have an immune system.  You're exposed to 'infections' all the time.  Most of the time, your immune system kills the infection before it overwhelms your systems.  Sometimes it happens before it enters your body (like when mucus in your nasal passage contains and kills a virus) and sometimes it happens after (a white blood cell recognizes it as an infection and murders it before it replicates).  Since there are a lot of ways for an infection to be killed, there are a lot of ways that antibodies can help you. 

Ideally, if you've been vaccinated, your body does a better job of recognizing the infection BEFORE it hijacks a cell and starts replicating.  The more times you're exposed, the more likely one slips through.  If one slips through but your body is pretty good at recognizing them, they'll mostly stop them from hijacking other cells.  It's a cascade effect.

Best option - don't get sick.  Get the vaccine and wear a mask at indoor gatherings with strangers.  If you do get sick, isolate to stop the spread.  Hope that if you get sick, it's a relatively minor case because your immune system is up to the task of defending you (maybe with the help of the antibodies generated by the vaccine).

  You mean wear a respirator/gas mask indoors around people, otherwise you are larping.

I agree with oggsmash on this one, with some caveats.

If you are going to be cheek-to-jowl with someone (like my wife working with patients), then even a non-respirator mask will buy you something. Otherwise, while a mask will catch the large aerosols from your sneeze or cough (albeit then leaving your with a faceful of snot and/or spit), a handkerchief or a tissue would do as well.

However, if your mask does not fit air-tight (like a properly fitted, properly worn N-95) it doesn't take much bypass area for the majority of flow to bypass the filter material. And the small aerosols (virus sized) will follow the airflow. So if you are just sitting or talking (without spraying) a mask doesn't do much to protect you or protect others from you. That's why pre-covid masks were not recommended for the general public to wear to prevent the flu.

And to put a point on "air-tight", my wife would come home with bruised cheeks from her N-95 mask.

Reducing the number of people in a given volume and having high rate volume turn-over are going to be more effective at reducing the virus concentration than wearing a mask.

Dude. Are you saying my eatin' mask won't protect me from the beer bug?!?!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-israel-mask-idUSKBN22U1ZO

And I'm only partly joking. I have been going to my local gaming pub, and the mask requirement is back. So I take off my mask in-between bites or drinks, knowing full well that this is performative and if I really had Covid I should #1. Have stayed the fuck home, and #2. a paper mask being taken off and put on again while eating is completly stupid.

I humor them because they've got to obey the State mandates or risk getting shut down.

[Pat]

And I'm only partly joking. I have been going to my local gaming pub, and the mask requirement is back. So I take off my mask in-between bites or drinks, knowing full well that this is performative and if I really had Covid I should #1. Have stayed the fuck home, and #2. a paper mask being taken off and put on again while eating is completly stupid.

The inside of your mask must look like the beard of one of the Duck Dynasty guys on cheetoh night.

[Ratman_tf]

And I'm only partly joking. I have been going to my local gaming pub, and the mask requirement is back. So I take off my mask in-between bites or drinks, knowing full well that this is performative and if I really had Covid I should #1. Have stayed the fuck home, and #2. a paper mask being taken off and put on again while eating is completly stupid.

The inside of your mask must look like the beard of one of the Duck Dynasty guys on cheetoh night.

I'm pretty fastidious. I use a nakpkin before putting my mask back on and dispose of it after game night.
No comment about others though.

[Ratman_tf]

Well, I got a notice on my door that someone in the apartment complex got the Coronavirus. Honestly, I expected someone to have already had it by now. But what I found most interesting, and this notice is clearly dated 8/27/2021:

There is no vaccine for novel coronavirus. People who traveled to or from China or were in close contact with someone who was infected and developed a fever and respriatory symptoms within 14 days of their travel  or exposure should seek immediate medical care.

Typed verbatim from the notice. bold emphasis is mine.
Not quite sure what to make of that.

[Kiero]

Once again, you're the dumbest guy around here. The effectiveness of the Covid vaccines IN THE SIX MONTHS AFTER THE FIRST DOSE is very similar to the effectiveness of the Measles vaccine. However, IT WEARS OFF FASTER thus the 66% number which is falling BECAUSE MORE PEOPLE ARE PASSING THE 6 MONTH POINT SINCE THEIR LAST DOSE WITHOUT A BOOSTER.

Shit my 10 year old comprehends this better than you.

And the Measles shot has the exact percentages I posted above. It is not in fact 100%. You believing it to be that effective does not change the actual effectiveness which has been proven out for decades and decades now.

Says the moron who doesn't understand the difference between a vaccine, which prevents infection, and not-a-vaccine, which does precisely fuck all. The measles vaccine STOPS YOU GETTING INFECTED (not quite 100% of the time). The covid jabs DO NOT PREVENT INFECTION (ever - ok maybe around 1% of the time).

I get it, though. You're 50-something, probably overweight and inactive, likely suffering from several co-morbidities already. So you're scared.

[dkabq]

Dude. Are you saying my eatin' mask won't protect me from the beer bug?!?!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-israel-mask-idUSKBN22U1ZO

And I'm only partly joking. I have been going to my local gaming pub, and the mask requirement is back. So I take off my mask in-between bites or drinks, knowing full well that this is performative and if I really had Covid I should #1. Have stayed the fuck home, and #2. a paper mask being taken off and put on again while eating is completly stupid.

I humor them because they've got to obey the State mandates or risk getting shut down.

Yep, completely stupid. Unless you are wearing a properly fitted, properly worn N-95 mask, you are, barring sneezing and coughing, puting pretty much the same viral load into the room as if you were not wearing a mask. And sneezing and coughing can be mitigated by coughing into your hand or sneezing into a napkin.

Equally stupid, but not as annoying as your situation, is the masking requirement where I live.

Here, you have to wear a mask indoors unless you are in a restaurant and sitting at a table.  And restaurants are back to 100% capacity. Good to know that our Dear Leader has discovered that sitting at a table in a restaurant makes you immune to catching covid. This is the stupid but not annoying part.

The stupid and annoying part is that at work, unless you are in an enclosed office with a door you can close, you have to wear a mask at all times, unless you are eating or drinking. I sit in an 8'x8' cube with 5' high walls. It has a sliding door. My cube is in a group of 6, three each on either side of a 3' wide aisle. The ceiling is 10'. Each cube has a supply register over it.

So I can sit at a table in a packed restaurant with no mask on, but at work, in a much less dense situation, I have to wear a mask. It's dumbassery like this that tells me that the fuck-heads in charge are fucking clown shoes.

[HappyDaze]

Well, I got a notice on my door that someone in the apartment complex got the Coronavirus. Honestly, I expected someone to have already had it by now. But what I found most interesting, and this notice is clearly dated 8/27/2021:

There is no vaccine for novel coronavirus. People who traveled to or from China or were in close contact with someone who was infected and developed a fever and respriatory symptoms within 14 days of their travel  or exposure should seek immediate medical care.

Typed verbatim from the notice. bold emphasis is mine.
Not quite sure what to make of that.

Sounds like a notice made very early in 2020 and not updated since.