Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.

[oggsmash]

  I thought vaccines prevent infections.  So now the metric for vaccines is preventing hospitalizations or death?  With a virus with a less than 1 percent death rate?  I think it is great if it can save a person's life.  I think the people at risk can consider if it is right for them.  I do not think calling a therapeutic a vaccine is being completely honest though.

Vaccinations reduce (but do not eliminate 100%) infections. Vaccinations reduce (but do not eliminate 100%) hospitalizations. Vaccinations reduce (but nearly eliminate 100%) deaths. Over time, vaccinations wear off and will need a booster. Covid also comes with risks which are beyond just the risk of death with long covid being a real thing and long term possibly lifetime damage likely being a thing. Pretending if you don't die then it is just a big nothingburger is disingenuous.

  I am still waiting for that polio booster.

[dkabq]

  I thought vaccines prevent infections.  So now the metric for vaccines is preventing hospitalizations or death?  With a virus with a less than 1 percent death rate?  I think it is great if it can save a person's life.  I think the people at risk can consider if it is right for them.  I do not think calling a therapeutic a vaccine is being completely honest though.

Vaccinations reduce (but do not eliminate 100%) infections. Vaccinations reduce (but do not eliminate 100%) hospitalizations. Vaccinations reduce (but nearly eliminate 100%) deaths. Over time, vaccinations wear off and will need a booster. Covid also comes with risks which are beyond just the risk of death with long covid being a real thing and long term possibly lifetime damage likely being a thing. Pretending if you don't die then it is just a big nothingburger is disingenuous.

How does "Vaccinations reduce (but do not eliminate 100%) infections" jibe with St Fauci's declaration that the nasal viral load of people vaccinated is the same as people unvaccinated? Or should the statement be "Vaccinations can reduce the severity of the effects of infections"?

[oggsmash]

   I should also mention, I know 17 (the number seems to keep growing) different people who have had covid.  No deaths, one hospitalization, no long term effects afterwards.   I also realize personal experiences are not the same for everyone, nor do mass statistics make.  After talking with these people, I made my own decision about vaccine.

[Pat]

  I thought vaccines prevent infections.  So now the metric for vaccines is preventing hospitalizations or death?  With a virus with a less than 1 percent death rate?  I think it is great if it can save a person's life.  I think the people at risk can consider if it is right for them.  I do not think calling a therapeutic a vaccine is being completely honest though.

Vaccinations reduce (but do not eliminate 100%) infections. Vaccinations reduce (but do not eliminate 100%) hospitalizations. Vaccinations reduce (but nearly eliminate 100%) deaths. Over time, vaccinations wear off and will need a booster. Covid also comes with risks which are beyond just the risk of death with long covid being a real thing and long term possibly lifetime damage likely being a thing. Pretending if you don't die then it is just a big nothingburger is disingenuous.

  I am still waiting for that polio booster.

They do recommend adults get a polio booster shot in certain circumstances. I.e. you work in a lab with polio virus samples, you work with polio patients, or you're going some place where polio is widespread.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/polio/public/index.html

[Kiero]

This is rather inconvenient for the "horse dewormer, lol" crowd: https://twitter.com/brenontheroad/status/1429624844379824129

Japan's health authorities recommending Ivermectin as routine treatment for all cases of covid.

[Kiero]

Vaccinations reduce (but do not eliminate 100%) infections. Vaccinations reduce (but do not eliminate 100%) hospitalizations. Vaccinations reduce (but nearly eliminate 100%) deaths. Over time, vaccinations wear off and will need a booster. Covid also comes with risks which are beyond just the risk of death with long covid being a real thing and long term possibly lifetime damage likely being a thing. Pretending if you don't die then it is just a big nothingburger is disingenuous.

Faithfully trotting out the "it's not 100%" bollocks, you are beneath contempt. They don't provide immunity, ergo they are not "vaccines".

When you get the measles jab, you can no longer contract measles. That's a real vaccine.

[Mistwell]

  I thought vaccines prevent infections.  So now the metric for vaccines is preventing hospitalizations or death?  With a virus with a less than 1 percent death rate?  I think it is great if it can save a person's life.  I think the people at risk can consider if it is right for them.  I do not think calling a therapeutic a vaccine is being completely honest though.

Vaccinations reduce (but do not eliminate 100%) infections. Vaccinations reduce (but do not eliminate 100%) hospitalizations. Vaccinations reduce (but nearly eliminate 100%) deaths. Over time, vaccinations wear off and will need a booster. Covid also comes with risks which are beyond just the risk of death with long covid being a real thing and long term possibly lifetime damage likely being a thing. Pretending if you don't die then it is just a big nothingburger is disingenuous.

How does "Vaccinations reduce (but do not eliminate 100%) infections" jibe with St Fauci's declaration that the nasal viral load of people vaccinated is the same as people unvaccinated? Or should the statement be "Vaccinations can reduce the severity of the effects of infections"?

Because:

1) Fully vaccinated people with breakthrough infections from this variant appear to be infectious for a shorter period.
2) Vaccines continue to reduce a person's risk of contracting the virus that cause COVID-19, including this variant.

So the odds you get the virus through a breakthrough case (mild or not) are lower with the vaccine which lowers the odds you will spread it, and the length of time you're contagious if you do end up as a breakthrough case appears to be shorter.

[Mistwell]

This is rather inconvenient for the "horse dewormer, lol" crowd: https://twitter.com/brenontheroad/status/1429624844379824129

Japan's health authorities recommending Ivermectin as routine treatment for all cases of covid.

False.

[Mistwell]

Vaccinations reduce (but do not eliminate 100%) infections. Vaccinations reduce (but do not eliminate 100%) hospitalizations. Vaccinations reduce (but nearly eliminate 100%) deaths. Over time, vaccinations wear off and will need a booster. Covid also comes with risks which are beyond just the risk of death with long covid being a real thing and long term possibly lifetime damage likely being a thing. Pretending if you don't die then it is just a big nothingburger is disingenuous.

Faithfully trotting out the "it's not 100%" bollocks, you are beneath contempt. They don't provide immunity, ergo they are not "vaccines".

When you get the measles jab, you can no longer contract measles. That's a real vaccine.

That's also false. Good lord you hold the record for sheer amount of complete bullshit you spew on a daily basis. "Two doses of MMR vaccine are about 97% effective at preventing measles; one dose is about 93% effective." Note that's pretty close to the effectiveness of the Covid vaccine with the 6 months after the second shot. However, the Covid vaccine is wearing off much faster than the Measles shot, so far. You also get boosters for the MMR (and I just got one last month by coincidence) but they're much MUCH further apart (many years) than the Covid vaccine.

[dkabq]

  I thought vaccines prevent infections.  So now the metric for vaccines is preventing hospitalizations or death?  With a virus with a less than 1 percent death rate?  I think it is great if it can save a person's life.  I think the people at risk can consider if it is right for them.  I do not think calling a therapeutic a vaccine is being completely honest though.

Vaccinations reduce (but do not eliminate 100%) infections. Vaccinations reduce (but do not eliminate 100%) hospitalizations. Vaccinations reduce (but nearly eliminate 100%) deaths. Over time, vaccinations wear off and will need a booster. Covid also comes with risks which are beyond just the risk of death with long covid being a real thing and long term possibly lifetime damage likely being a thing. Pretending if you don't die then it is just a big nothingburger is disingenuous.

How does "Vaccinations reduce (but do not eliminate 100%) infections" jibe with St Fauci's declaration that the nasal viral load of people vaccinated is the same as people unvaccinated? Or should the statement be "Vaccinations can reduce the severity of the effects of infections"?

Because:

1) Fully vaccinated people with breakthrough infections from this variant appear to be infectious for a shorter period.
2) Vaccines continue to reduce a person's risk of contracting the virus that cause COVID-19, including this variant.

So the odds you get the virus through a breakthrough case (mild or not) are lower with the vaccine which lowers the odds you will spread it, and the length of time you're contagious if you do end up as a breakthrough case appears to be shorter.

Interesting. I had not heard any of that.

So your chances of getting covid are less, but if you get it, you are carrying the same nasal viral load as a non-vaccinated person (per St Fauci), but the duration you are carrying the same nasal viral load (as a non-vaccinated person) is shorter?

[Kiero]

False.

Aw, you got your "fact checking" liars, paid for by Big Pharma again.

That's also false. Good lord you hold the record for sheer amount of complete bullshit you spew on a daily basis. "Two doses of MMR vaccine are about 97% effective at preventing measles; one dose is about 93% effective." Note that's pretty close to the effectiveness of the Covid vaccine with the 6 months after the second shot. However, the Covid vaccine is wearing off much faster than the Measles shot, so far. You also get boosters for the MMR (and I just got one last month by coincidence) but they're much MUCH further apart (many years) than the Covid vaccine.

Bullshit, the efficacy of the covid jabs is currently rated at around 66% and falling - and that for the new fake measure of "efficacy".

The measles vaccine actually stops you getting measles.

[dkabq]

False.

Aw, you got your "fact checking" liars, paid for by Big Pharma again.

That's also false. Good lord you hold the record for sheer amount of complete bullshit you spew on a daily basis. "Two doses of MMR vaccine are about 97% effective at preventing measles; one dose is about 93% effective." Note that's pretty close to the effectiveness of the Covid vaccine with the 6 months after the second shot. However, the Covid vaccine is wearing off much faster than the Measles shot, so far. You also get boosters for the MMR (and I just got one last month by coincidence) but they're much MUCH further apart (many years) than the Covid vaccine.

Bullshit, the efficacy of the covid jabs is currently rated at around 66% and falling - and that for the new fake measure of "efficacy".

The measles vaccine actually stops you getting measles.

I know that in early 2021 we were told that the vaccine did not prevent you from getting covid, but that it greatly reduced the severity of symptoms. That would seem to be consistent with St Fauci saying that vaccinated and unvaccinated people carry the same nasal viral load.

So it seems that the covid vaccine, while having a positive effect, does not work like all(?) other vaccines. For example, if you are vaccinated against measles and are exposed to it, you either don't get infected (vaccine worked) or you do get infected (vaccine failed). But if you are vaccinated against covid and exposed to it, you do get infected but your symptoms are mitigated (vaccine worked) or you do get infected but your symptoms are not mitigated (vaccine failed). Or is there an event tree branch for vaccinated against covid and do not get infected (contrary to St Fauci)?

And are there other vaccines that do not prevent you from getting infected, but rather mitigate your symptoms?

[HappyDaze]

False.

Aw, you got your "fact checking" liars, paid for by Big Pharma again.

That's also false. Good lord you hold the record for sheer amount of complete bullshit you spew on a daily basis. "Two doses of MMR vaccine are about 97% effective at preventing measles; one dose is about 93% effective." Note that's pretty close to the effectiveness of the Covid vaccine with the 6 months after the second shot. However, the Covid vaccine is wearing off much faster than the Measles shot, so far. You also get boosters for the MMR (and I just got one last month by coincidence) but they're much MUCH further apart (many years) than the Covid vaccine.

Bullshit, the efficacy of the covid jabs is currently rated at around 66% and falling - and that for the new fake measure of "efficacy".

The measles vaccine actually stops you getting measles.

I know that in early 2021 we were told that the vaccine did not prevent you from getting covid, but that it greatly reduced the severity of symptoms. That would seem to be consistent with St Fauci saying that vaccinated and unvaccinated people carry the same nasal viral load.

So it seems that the covid vaccine, while having a positive effect, does not work like all(?) other vaccines. For example, if you are vaccinated against measles and are exposed to it, you either don't get infected (vaccine worked) or you do get infected (vaccine failed). But if you are vaccinated against covid and exposed to it, you do get infected but your symptoms are mitigated (vaccine worked) or you do get infected but your symptoms are not mitigated (vaccine failed). Or is there an event tree branch for vaccinated against covid and do not get infected (contrary to St Fauci)?

And are there other vaccines that do not prevent you from getting infected, but rather mitigate your symptoms?

Sure, you can be exposed and not get infected. This is true whether you are vaccinated or not, but the data on how much influence the various vaccines have on this outcome is hard to nail down.

Even with consistent PPE use, I have been in prolonged close contact with > 100 symptomatic C19 patients, and as of two days ago I'm still testing negative. Is it because I'm vaccinated? Maybe. Even if the vaccine is just a +1 on my saving throw, I'll take that bonus considering how often I'm rolling that save. I'm surprised how many gamers here aren't grabbing up that easy +1 bonus.

[deadDMwalking]

And are there other vaccines that do not prevent you from getting infected, but rather mitigate your symptoms?

Yes.  Here's the thing - defining 'infected' is hard.  You have an immune system.  You're exposed to 'infections' all the time.  Most of the time, your immune system kills the infection before it overwhelms your systems.  Sometimes it happens before it enters your body (like when mucus in your nasal passage contains and kills a virus) and sometimes it happens after (a white blood cell recognizes it as an infection and murders it before it replicates).  Since there are a lot of ways for an infection to be killed, there are a lot of ways that antibodies can help you. 

Ideally, if you've been vaccinated, your body does a better job of recognizing the infection BEFORE it hijacks a cell and starts replicating.  The more times you're exposed, the more likely one slips through.  If one slips through but your body is pretty good at recognizing them, they'll mostly stop them from hijacking other cells.  It's a cascade effect.

Best option - don't get sick.  Get the vaccine and wear a mask at indoor gatherings with strangers.  If you do get sick, isolate to stop the spread.  Hope that if you get sick, it's a relatively minor case because your immune system is up to the task of defending you (maybe with the help of the antibodies generated by the vaccine). 

[Shasarak]

I would agree with deadDM, if you just choose not to get sick then that beats a +1 from the vaccine every day of the week.