Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.

[KingCheops]

OK let's say for a moment that we agree with the lockdowns, what I want to know is; how deadly does a disease have to be for us to lock down society? Why aren't we discussing this? If the next flu is really bad do we lock down? Probably not, but where is the line drawn?

Well, ebola wasn't enough if we're to judge from some of Dr. Fauci's remarks in 2014.

DemonKKKrats had a mid term to win that year didn't they?  Can't make Obummer seem bad.

[Pat]

The latest coronavirus may have displaced the various flu bugs, but assuming that's not true, I fully expect we'll see lockdowns during the next strong flu season.

Welcome to the new normal.

[Zelen]

Truth is, Lockdowns will continue indefinitely until governments are deposed.

[Ghostmaker]

Truth is, Lockdowns will continue indefinitely until governments are deposed.

Those terms are acceptable.

[Garry G]

The latest coronavirus may have displaced the various flu bugs, but assuming that's not true, I fully expect we'll see lockdowns during the next strong flu season.

Welcome to the new normal.

That is entirely possible. I can't speak yo the US system, it's probably fabulous, but the winter flu virus puts the NHS in an awful position. Coronavirus on top of that could stretch it beyond crisis.

This is one of those things you may not be worried about, it's just the sniffles likesay, but you don't want to be hit by a car or jumped by a jakie during this time. Remember that drunk drivers and random jakies are much more committed n vee the festive season..

Basically ICU beds are already full in the winter and any of us could randomly need one. There's no need of a big, or even small, conspiracy for any government to consider a lockdown during the worst period.

[Ratman_tf]

The latest coronavirus may have displaced the various flu bugs, but assuming that's not true, I fully expect we'll see lockdowns during the next strong flu season.

Welcome to the new normal.

That is entirely possible. I can't speak yo the US system, it's probably fabulous, but the winter flu virus puts the NHS in an awful position. Coronavirus on top of that could stretch it beyond crisis.

This is one of those things you may not be worried about, it's just the sniffles likesay, but you don't want to be hit by a car or jumped by a jakie during this time. Remember that drunk drivers and random jakies are much more committed n vee the festive season..

Basically ICU beds are already full in the winter and any of us could randomly need one. There's no need of a big, or even small, conspiracy for any government to consider a lockdown during the worst period.

I have never actually seen a hospital overloaded due to Covid. I hear about it all the time. Maybe it does happen, but I can't ever remember a news crew getting some footage, even from a distance.

[Shrieking Banshee]

how deadly does a disease have to be for us to lock down society? Why aren't we discussing this?

If its say.... super incurable ebola, then a lockdown wouldn't really fix it anyway. The Spanish flu wasn't enough to lockdown the states back in the 1910s.

Lockdowns aren't magic and diseases generally don't just go away.

[Garry G]

The latest coronavirus may have displaced the various flu bugs, but assuming that's not true, I fully expect we'll see lockdowns during the next strong flu season.

Welcome to the new normal.

That is entirely possible. I can't speak yo the US system, it's probably fabulous, but the winter flu virus puts the NHS in an awful position. Coronavirus on top of that could stretch it beyond crisis.

This is one of those things you may not be worried about, it's just the sniffles likesay, but you don't want to be hit by a car or jumped by a jakie during this time. Remember that drunk drivers and random jakies are much more committed n vee the festive season..

Basically ICU beds are already full in the winter and any of us could randomly need one. There's no need of a big, or even small, conspiracy for any government to consider a lockdown during the worst period.

I have never actually seen a hospital overloaded due to Covid. I hear about it all the time. Maybe it does happen, but I can't ever remember a news crew getting some footage, even from a distance.

What do you mean by overloaded? There seems to be this idea that it should be patients in trollies in the hospital corridors but what it actually means is a lack of ICU beds. I've said before that an ICU bed isn't one if there isn't an ICU trained nurse dedicated to that bed. As I mentioned I can't speak to US healthcare which may have a surfeit of beds but in the UK there's a limit which is nearly reached every year in flu season. Covid could be a tipping point.

This is where I get a little irked by high functioning glaikit like Keiro. The flu vaccine does what it's intended to do which is keep hospital admissions as low as possible, the Covid vaccines should hopefully do the same thing. Otherwise it's a matter of hoping you don't have that random event that means you need to be in a local ICU cos you may have to be driven 50 miles down the road in an ambulance. That's a fucker if you have a stroke.

[Ratman_tf]

The latest coronavirus may have displaced the various flu bugs, but assuming that's not true, I fully expect we'll see lockdowns during the next strong flu season.

Welcome to the new normal.

That is entirely possible. I can't speak yo the US system, it's probably fabulous, but the winter flu virus puts the NHS in an awful position. Coronavirus on top of that could stretch it beyond crisis.

This is one of those things you may not be worried about, it's just the sniffles likesay, but you don't want to be hit by a car or jumped by a jakie during this time. Remember that drunk drivers and random jakies are much more committed n vee the festive season..

Basically ICU beds are already full in the winter and any of us could randomly need one. There's no need of a big, or even small, conspiracy for any government to consider a lockdown during the worst period.

I have never actually seen a hospital overloaded due to Covid. I hear about it all the time. Maybe it does happen, but I can't ever remember a news crew getting some footage, even from a distance.

What do you mean by overloaded? There seems to be this idea that it should be patients in trollies in the hospital corridors but what it actually means is a lack of ICU beds. I've said before that an ICU bed isn't one if there isn't an ICU trained nurse dedicated to that bed. As I mentioned I can't speak to US healthcare which may have a surfeit of beds but in the UK there's a limit which is nearly reached every year in flu season. Covid could be a tipping point.

This is where I get a little irked by high functioning glaikit like Keiro. The flu vaccine does what it's intended to do which is keep hospital admissions as low as possible, the Covid vaccines should hopefully do the same thing. Otherwise it's a matter of hoping you don't have that random event that means you need to be in a local ICU cos you may have to be driven 50 miles down the road in an ambulance. That's a fucker if you have a stroke.

That's what I mean. We get told that the hospitals will be overwhelmed, and then... they don't get overwhelmed.

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/governor-asks-president-send-navy-hospital-ship-washington/ZM5P53CXG5GCROEFP4X7OBIW2U/

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/19/politics/ship-deploy-seattle-coronavirus/index.html

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/03/23/why-navys-hospital-ship-mercy-going-la-instead-hard-hit-washington.html

Maybe that's because of good planning, maybe that's because the demand didn't match the projections. Maybe a bit of both.

We dont' get important numbers, like total ICU beds, typical occupancy, expected emergency occupancy, etc. Or like you pointed out, number of doctors and nurses. We get told, "Those beds are gonna fill up, and then when you break your foot, you're gonna be shit out of luck!" Or a vague number like a percentage or a factor. Five times! Five times what? Nearly full! What does that mean? 12 beds? 2 beds? 100 beds? That's not helpful. That tells me nothing.

[Shasarak]

That's what I mean. We get told that the hospitals will be overwhelmed, and then... they don't get overwhelmed.

If they dont get overwhelmed this week, then its going to be next week for sure.

Because, supposedly, the people in charge of Hospitals are all idiots that have not noticed there is a Wuhan China virus pandemic going on for the last 18 months and have got no process in place in deal with having sick patients turning up at hospital.

So definitely over whelmed next week.

[Pat]

The latest coronavirus may have displaced the various flu bugs, but assuming that's not true, I fully expect we'll see lockdowns during the next strong flu season.

Welcome to the new normal.

That is entirely possible. I can't speak yo the US system, it's probably fabulous, but the winter flu virus puts the NHS in an awful position. Coronavirus on top of that could stretch it beyond crisis.

This is one of those things you may not be worried about, it's just the sniffles likesay, but you don't want to be hit by a car or jumped by a jakie during this time. Remember that drunk drivers and random jakies are much more committed n vee the festive season..

Basically ICU beds are already full in the winter and any of us could randomly need one. There's no need of a big, or even small, conspiracy for any government to consider a lockdown during the worst period.

The US system may be flawed and absurdly expensive, but it's not as threadbare as the UK's. Per capita, there are way more ICU beds. If you think a strong flu season in the UK may justify a lockdown because of a lack of ICU beds, then the NHS is absurdly under capacity.

Incidentally, I'm seeing more reports of hospitals being overwhelmed in the US than during any of the previous waves. During the peak of the last wave, you could count the entire nation's worth on one hand (LA had a few). Today, NPR was reporting up to 53 hospitals at capacity in at least one hard-hit state (might have been NY, but I'm not sure), but they didn't make it clear whether they were talking about ICU beds (limited ability to flex), or general beds (not as hard a limit). They were also talking about mobilizing the national stockpile of respirators (to GA maybe?). Wish they spent more time on facts and less on propaganda.

[HappyDaze]

The latest coronavirus may have displaced the various flu bugs, but assuming that's not true, I fully expect we'll see lockdowns during the next strong flu season.

Welcome to the new normal.

That is entirely possible. I can't speak yo the US system, it's probably fabulous, but the winter flu virus puts the NHS in an awful position. Coronavirus on top of that could stretch it beyond crisis.

This is one of those things you may not be worried about, it's just the sniffles likesay, but you don't want to be hit by a car or jumped by a jakie during this time. Remember that drunk drivers and random jakies are much more committed n vee the festive season..

Basically ICU beds are already full in the winter and any of us could randomly need one. There's no need of a big, or even small, conspiracy for any government to consider a lockdown during the worst period.

The US system may be flawed and absurdly expensive, but it's not as threadbare as the UK's. Per capita, there are way more ICU beds. If you think a strong flu season in the UK may justify a lockdown because of a lack of ICU beds, then the NHS is absurdly under capacity.

Incidentally, I'm seeing more reports of hospitals being overwhelmed in the US than during any of the previous waves. During the peak of the last wave, you could count the entire nation's worth on one hand (LA had a few). Today, NPR was reporting up to 53 hospitals at capacity in at least one hard-hit state (might have been NY, but I'm not sure), but they didn't make it clear whether they were talking about ICU beds (limited ability to flex), or general beds (not as hard a limit). They were also talking about mobilizing the national stockpile of respirators (to GA maybe?). Wish they spent more time on facts and less on propaganda.

Florida is getting hit hard right now, and it's not just ICUs and ventilators. Many of the Covid patients are being put in PCU level care and doubled (two per room) which is not ideal, but leaves ICU to concentrate on the sickest (which also lay backed up in the ED). Both ICU and PCU nurses have stretched assignments (so less time and date ruin available per patient) and ED nurses have their base load plus lingering admitted patients without assigned beds. There are simply not enough nurses (and way too few respiratory therapists) to maintain the optimal staffing levels, so we are constantly operating with contingency staffing as core, and when a staff member is infected, things get harder. Equipment is also an issue; my hospital ran out of bipap machines yesterday and was down to only 4 available highflow oxygen setups (both intermediate respiratory interventions). When you run out of the intermediate interventions, it then taxes the supply of ventilators (and the staff qualified to use them).

[FelixGamingX1]

The US system may be flawed and absurdly expensive, but it's not as threadbare as the UK's.

I avoid US doctors mostly due to the 'quick fix' pill prescriptions. I'll treat things naturally with herbal or organic medicine and if convenient, I'll visit doctors and dentists abroad. A root canal costs you $170 in South America.

[Eirikrautha]

If you would like to check the actual status of hospital beds and usage, here is one tool.  You might find that not everything you hear is accurate...

https://protect-public.hhs.gov/pages/hospital-utilization

[KingCheops]

If you would like to check the actual status of hospital beds and usage, here is one tool.  You might find that not everything you hear is accurate...

https://protect-public.hhs.gov/pages/hospital-utilization

So if I'm reading this right 77 of 100 beds in the US are occupied and 1 in 7 of those (10%) are from the coof?  Not terrible in the aggregate but I imagine you could have bad situations locally.