Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.

[Ratman_tf]

Are you referring to this study?

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e3.htm

If so yes, a 1.8% reduction in cases and 1.9% reduction in deaths after 100 days. Based on U.S. death rates since last April, that would be around 35 lives saved every day from masking - less because some states have not had mask mandates.

Almost 2000 people die every day from heart disease, and ~130 every day from suicides. 35/day is pretty insignificant comparatively, ergo, the effect of wearing masks is statistically insignificant unless you are a fucking moron.

Masks are an extremely simple, low-effort step to reduce spread. Why not do it, if it saves 35 lives a day - especially since it is only for a limited time until the vaccine is fully distributed.

Masks are not simple at all. As I keep posting, even the then candidate now President of the United States utterly fucked up using his mask, on public television, as an example of how even a high profile politician who should be setting an example dropped the ball for all to see.

I think masks are a mildly good idea, but not the panacea worth utterly freaking out in a Wal-mart over, as some people seem to think.

In the end, you can't police every moment of every person's day, to make sure they're never, ever touching their face and mask except to don and remove them. Christ, our local RPG pub is looking towards limited re-opening, with the rule that you must wear a mask except when taking a drink. Allowing people to touch their face and mask to move it aside to take a slurp is idiotic, but people are dumb about using their masks.

The only way mask wearing is simple, is if you're using it for show and/or a badge of compliance.

[Mistwell]

Are you referring to this study?

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e3.htm

If so yes, a 1.8% reduction in cases and 1.9% reduction in deaths after 100 days. Based on U.S. death rates since last April, that would be around 35 lives saved every day from masking - less because some states have not had mask mandates.

Almost 2000 people die every day from heart disease, and ~130 every day from suicides. 35/day is pretty insignificant comparatively, ergo, the effect of wearing masks is statistically insignificant unless you are a fucking moron.

Masks are an extremely simple, low-effort step to reduce spread. Why not do it, if it saves 35 lives a day - especially since it is only for a limited time until the vaccine is fully distributed.

Masks are not simple at all. As I keep posting, even the then candidate now President of the United States utterly fucked up using his mask, on public television, as an example of how even a high profile politician who should be setting an example dropped the ball for all to see.

I think masks are a mildly good idea, but not the panacea worth utterly freaking out in a Wal-mart over, as some people seem to think.

In the end, you can't police every moment of every person's day, to make sure they're never, ever touching their face and mask except to don and remove them. Christ, our local RPG pub is looking towards limited re-opening, with the rule that you must wear a mask except when taking a drink. Allowing people to touch their face and mask to move it aside to take a slurp is idiotic, but people are dumb about using their masks.

The only way mask wearing is simple, is if you're using it for show and/or a badge of compliance.

LOL,

Ratman: Biden is a simple moron!
Also Ratman: Masks are not simple, even Biden messed one up!

[Pat]

https://www.theweek.in/wire-updates/international/2021/03/23/fgn68-uk-holidaymakers-fine.html

£5,000 fine if you're caught trying to leave the UK without a government-approved excuse. Sounds perfectly reasonable and not at all totalitarian.

[Ratman_tf]

Are you referring to this study?

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e3.htm

If so yes, a 1.8% reduction in cases and 1.9% reduction in deaths after 100 days. Based on U.S. death rates since last April, that would be around 35 lives saved every day from masking - less because some states have not had mask mandates.

Almost 2000 people die every day from heart disease, and ~130 every day from suicides. 35/day is pretty insignificant comparatively, ergo, the effect of wearing masks is statistically insignificant unless you are a fucking moron.

Masks are an extremely simple, low-effort step to reduce spread. Why not do it, if it saves 35 lives a day - especially since it is only for a limited time until the vaccine is fully distributed.

Masks are not simple at all. As I keep posting, even the then candidate now President of the United States utterly fucked up using his mask, on public television, as an example of how even a high profile politician who should be setting an example dropped the ball for all to see.

I think masks are a mildly good idea, but not the panacea worth utterly freaking out in a Wal-mart over, as some people seem to think.

In the end, you can't police every moment of every person's day, to make sure they're never, ever touching their face and mask except to don and remove them. Christ, our local RPG pub is looking towards limited re-opening, with the rule that you must wear a mask except when taking a drink. Allowing people to touch their face and mask to move it aside to take a slurp is idiotic, but people are dumb about using their masks.

The only way mask wearing is simple, is if you're using it for show and/or a badge of compliance.

LOL,

Ratman: Biden is a simple moron!
Also Ratman: Masks are not simple, even Biden messed one up!

Are you fucking daft? I never said Biden is a simple moron.

[jhkim]

I think masks are a mildly good idea, but not the panacea worth utterly freaking out in a Wal-mart over, as some people seem to think.

I agree that people get too freaked out over lack of masks, and worse, sometimes think of them like a serious protection so they are willing to do more risky things than they would otherwise.

That said, mask use doesn't have to be perfect for them to be useful. Sure, ideally people would get a good seal wearing N95 masks and never touch their face - but there is still plenty of benefit possible even without keeping to perfect medical procedure.

[Ratman_tf]

I think masks are a mildly good idea, but not the panacea worth utterly freaking out in a Wal-mart over, as some people seem to think.

I agree that people get too freaked out over lack of masks, and worse, sometimes think of them like a serious protection so they are willing to do more risky things than they would otherwise.

That said, mask use doesn't have to be perfect for them to be useful. Sure, ideally people would get a good seal wearing N95 masks and never touch their face - but there is still plenty of benefit possible even without keeping to perfect medical procedure.

Man, I'm not even expecting perfect medical procedure. I'd be happy if, for example, I could be relatively sure that Bob McMask wasn't scratching his nose under his mask before getting out of his car to get grocieries.

[Ratman_tf]

Well, I'll just be in the corner laughing like a maniac.

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1374777986965209100

[jhkim]

Man, I'm not even expecting perfect medical procedure. I'd be happy if, for example, I could be relatively sure that Bob McMask wasn't scratching his nose under his mask before getting out of his car to get grocieries.

I'm much more bugged by people who take their mask off to cough, or to speak. Scratching his nose means his hands are dirty, but infection by airborne droplets is a lot easier and faster than infection by touching surfaces. I pretty much expect people's hands to be dirty regardless of mask use.

[Ratman_tf]

Man, I'm not even expecting perfect medical procedure. I'd be happy if, for example, I could be relatively sure that Bob McMask wasn't scratching his nose under his mask before getting out of his car to get grocieries.

I'm much more bugged by people who take their mask off to cough, or to speak. Scratching his nose means his hands are dirty, but infection by airborne droplets is a lot easier and faster than infection by touching surfaces. I pretty much expect people's hands to be dirty regardless of mask use.

Yes, those too, but is it so much to ask for people to not touch their faces while in public? It's a small, simple thing that can help prevent people from dying of Covid.

[shuddemell]

Man, I'm not even expecting perfect medical procedure. I'd be happy if, for example, I could be relatively sure that Bob McMask wasn't scratching his nose under his mask before getting out of his car to get grocieries.

I'm much more bugged by people who take their mask off to cough, or to speak. Scratching his nose means his hands are dirty, but infection by airborne droplets is a lot easier and faster than infection by touching surfaces. I pretty much expect people's hands to be dirty regardless of mask use.

Yes, those too, but is it so much to ask for people to not touch their faces while in public? It's a small, simple thing that can help prevent people from dying of Covid.

It would be nice, but it's a taller order than you realize. I work in a Bacteriology Lab, but having been trained as a chemist, I have discovered through time that we all touch our faces unconsciously almost constantly. It's a tough habit to break, even when you are being exceptionally mindful of it.

[horsesoldier]

https://www.theweek.in/wire-updates/international/2021/03/23/fgn68-uk-holidaymakers-fine.html

£5,000 fine if you're caught trying to leave the UK without a government-approved excuse. Sounds perfectly reasonable and not at all totalitarian.

All this while they're actively resettling 15 year olds with a full beard.

[HappyDaze]

https://www.theweek.in/wire-updates/international/2021/03/23/fgn68-uk-holidaymakers-fine.html

£5,000 fine if you're caught trying to leave the UK without a government-approved excuse. Sounds perfectly reasonable and not at all totalitarian.

All this while they're actively resettling 15 year olds with a full beard.

Well, it says protests will be permitted, so just say you need to travel to take part in a protest.

[dkabq]

The WHO does not recommend the wearing of masks by the mass population:
https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/transcripts/who-audio-emergencies-coronavirus-press-conference-full-30mar2020.pdf?sfvrsn=6b68bc4a_2

TL:DR = (see p 7 of 18); MR = Dr Michael Ryan; MK = Dr Maria Van Kerkhove

This is a question on Austria. The Austrian Government has a desire to make everyone wear a mask who's going into the shops. I understood from our previous briefings with you that the general public should not wear masks because they are in short supply. What do you say about the new Austrian measures?

MR Thank you. I'm not specifically aware of that measure in Austria. I would assume that it's aimed at people who potentially have the disease not passing it to others. In general WHO recommends that the wearing of a mask by a member of the public is to prevent that individual giving the disease to somebody else. We don't generally recommend the wearing to masks in public by otherwise well individuals because it has not been up to now associated with any particular benefit.

It does have benefit psychologically, socially and there are social norms around that and we don't criticise the wearing of masks and have not done so but there is no specific evidence to suggest that the wearing of masks by the mass population has any particular benefit. In fact there's some evidence to suggest the opposite in the misuse of wearing a mask properly or fitting it properly or taking it off and all the other risks that are otherwise associated with that.

There also is the issue that we have a massive global shortage and where should these masks be and where is the best benefit? One could argue that there's a benefit of anything but where does a given tool has its most benefit? Right now the people most at risk from this virus are front-line health workers who are exposed to the virus every second of every day.

The thought of them not having masks is horrific so we have to be very careful on supply but that is not the primary reason why WHO has advised against using masks at a mass population level. I'll pass to Maria on the technical side, you may have something to add.

MK Thanks. No, only to reinforce what Mike has said, that our recommendations are that in the community we don't recommend the use of masks unless you yourself are sick and as a measure to prevent onward spread from you if you are ill. The masks that we recommend are for people who are at home and who are sick and for those individuals who are caring for those people who are home that are sick.

[Garry G]

Is it possible that the WHO have changed their advice in the last year?

[dkabq]

Is it possible that the WHO have changed their advice in the last year?

Absolutely.

Interestingly enough, this CNN article:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/world/coronavirus-who-masks-recommendation-trnd/index.html

links to his WHO page, which says, "Masks should be used as part of a comprehensive strategy of measures to suppress transmission and save lives; the use of a mask alone is not sufficient to provide an adequate level of protection against COVID-19.":
https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks

and links to this twitter thread which has the video:
https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1244637360706342917

from which the transcript was taken:
https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/transcripts/who-audio-emergencies-coronavirus-press-conference-full-30mar2020.pdf?sfvrsn=6b68bc4a_2