Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.

[HappyDaze]

Interesting study for those interested in how habits changed during the pandemic, from the first reaction to eventual fatigue:

https://www.cleaninginstitute.org/newsroom/releases/2020/american-cleaning-institute-survey-finds-decline-handwashing-practices

14% drop in frequent handwashing between March and September.

In march when the lockdowns were fresh, I used to wear mask and gloves when going out and interacting with the world. Sanitize my wheel/handles/etc in the car with cleaning wipes after coming home, fresh masks and disposable gloves every trip, etc.
As the weeks went on, I slowly stopped. Now I just keep a few masks in my car to wear into the store because they're "required".
Constant vigiliance is just not practical for everyday living.

As long as you are sanitizing your hands fairly often before bringing them near your face (especially eyes & mouth), you can skip on sanitizing the surfaces of your own car/computer/etc. (however, cleaning shared work stations and the like when following after another user is good practice). I don't remember when wearing gloves for normal day-to-day activities was ever seriously suggested (gloves are a barrier to prevent skin contact, and COVID doesn't infect through the skin). The trick to maintaining vigilance is to know what steps are the important/effective ones, and there is a lot of (mis)information out there that unnecessarily adds to the burden.

[Ghostmaker]

Here's all the social distancing you'll ever need.

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2020/12/21/no-masks-no-social-distancing-how-come-saturday-night-live-continues-to-be-an-essential-business-in-nyc/

Meanwhile, NYC restaurants forced to sit diners out in the weather.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nyc-covid-outdoor-dining-requirements-restroom/

Fuck the lockdowns. More two faced lying bullshit.

[Pat]

As long as you are sanitizing your hands fairly often before bringing them near your face (especially eyes & mouth), you can skip on sanitizing the surfaces of your own car/computer/etc. (however, cleaning shared work stations and the like when following after another user is good practice). I don't remember when wearing gloves for normal day-to-day activities was ever seriously suggested (gloves are a barrier to prevent skin contact, and COVID doesn't infect through the skin). The trick to maintaining vigilance is to know what steps are the important/effective ones, and there is a lot of (mis)information out there that unnecessarily adds to the burden.

The thinking behind the gloves was to prevent people from transmitting the virus from a surface to the face. That's why some people put on disposable gloves before opening the door in a store or using a gas pump, which made sense because those were high contact areas. It was very early on, and I don't remember if it was ever officially recommended.

[Zirunel]

Interesting study for those interested in how habits changed during the pandemic, from the first reaction to eventual fatigue:

https://www.cleaninginstitute.org/newsroom/releases/2020/american-cleaning-institute-survey-finds-decline-handwashing-practices

14% drop in frequent handwashing between March and September.

In march when the lockdowns were fresh, I used to wear mask and gloves when going out and interacting with the world. Sanitize my wheel/handles/etc in the car with cleaning wipes after coming home, fresh masks and disposable gloves every trip, etc.
As the weeks went on, I slowly stopped. Now I just keep a few masks in my car to wear into the store because they're "required".
Constant vigiliance is just not practical for everyday living.

I can relate. I'm not as assiduous with the hand sanitizer as I used to be either. Now it helps that I live in a place where Covid has been kept under control, certainly compared to most everywhere else in North America, and yeah, when you get success and the threat recedes,  you get complacent.

WRT masks, at some level, like you, I wear one when and where I "have to." For the most part my work is either outdoors or from the home, and I can certainly imagine if I had to wear one hours on end, I'd be wanting to claw the thing off my face. But I don't have to do that, for me a mask is an occasional inconvenience. So for me it's not such an onerous burden. Yes I'm fortunate, but personally, I'm not at that level of fatigue.

[HappyDaze]

As long as you are sanitizing your hands fairly often before bringing them near your face (especially eyes & mouth), you can skip on sanitizing the surfaces of your own car/computer/etc. (however, cleaning shared work stations and the like when following after another user is good practice). I don't remember when wearing gloves for normal day-to-day activities was ever seriously suggested (gloves are a barrier to prevent skin contact, and COVID doesn't infect through the skin). The trick to maintaining vigilance is to know what steps are the important/effective ones, and there is a lot of (mis)information out there that unnecessarily adds to the burden.

That's only going.to be useful if they are changing the gloves regularly--which didn't really happen. Instead they more thr same pair of gloves for an extended period of time, during which they didn't bother to wash/sanitize hands. This is worse for secondary contact than bare hands with washing/sanitizing would be.
The thinking behind the gloves was to prevent people from transmitting the virus from a surface to the face. That's why some people put on disposable gloves before opening the door in a store or using a gas pump, which made sense because those were high contact areas. It was very early on, and I don't remember if it was ever officially recommended.

That's only going to be useful if they are changing the gloves regularly--which didn't really happen--and still sanitize after removing the gloves. Instead, I saw several wear the same pair of gloves for an extended period of time, during which they didn't bother to wash/sanitize hands (obviously), and they touched multiple surfaces in stores. This is worse for secondary contact than bare hands with washing/sanitizing would be.

[Pat]

In the "for thee, not me" category:
https://apnews.com/article/travel-pandemics-only-on-ap-delaware-thanksgiving-52810c22488fff7e6bb70746bdc9bc61

The Response Coordinator for the Coronavirus Task Force traveled across state borders to celebrate Thanksgiving with 3 (4) generations of her family, a clear violation of her own guidelines for the rest of us. And then lied about it, saying they were part of her immediate household, when they live in 2 (3) different houses.

Why aren't people fired and barred from ever working for the government again for things like this?

[Mistwell]

Interesting discussions and replies. So, I'll play THE DEVIL IN THE DETAILS for this posting:
MY NEW HYPOTHESIS: The shutdown and the mask mandates have been based on a virus they cannot even prove exists!
--------------------------------
The same group that established the Federal Reserve Bank in the US also financed the Bolshevik Revolution and Hitler and the CCP and promoted the offshoring of US wealth to China. They are the same group behind the World Bank, the IMF, the World Economic Forum and the UN and its numerous agencies, like the WHO.

The Illuminati?

Also, that site you linked to claims there literally is no virus.

[Mistwell]

I was arguing a LOCALIZED lockdown for a SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.

In Victoria we have a joke: "just two more weeks!" We were always promised a short lockdown, just temporary measures for the duration until we... um... hey we reached that goal, let's move those goalposts now... just two more weeks!

Now, wherever you are may need it, I don't know. My point is simply: it always takes longer and costs more than planned. That's government.

Agreed. But what is the alternative?

I'll tell you what's stunning. Our socialist horrid Government out here in California and Los Angeles ISN'T locking things down, despite the horror the hospitals are reporting. Almost everything is still open, just at reduced capacity, and nobody is enforcing the reduced capacity.

[moonsweeper]

Interesting discussions and replies. So, I'll play THE DEVIL IN THE DETAILS for this posting:
MY NEW HYPOTHESIS: The shutdown and the mask mandates have been based on a virus they cannot even prove exists!
--------------------------------
The same group that established the Federal Reserve Bank in the US also financed the Bolshevik Revolution and Hitler and the CCP and promoted the offshoring of US wealth to China. They are the same group behind the World Bank, the IMF, the World Economic Forum and the UN and its numerous agencies, like the WHO.

The Illuminati?

Also, that site you linked to claims there literally is no virus.

I think its supposed to be the Rothschilds, but I'm not sure.

[Pat]

That's only going to be useful if they are changing the gloves regularly--which didn't really happen--and still sanitize after removing the gloves. Instead, I saw several wear the same pair of gloves for an extended period of time, during which they didn't bother to wash/sanitize hands (obviously), and they touched multiple surfaces in stores. This is worse for secondary contact than bare hands with washing/sanitizing would be.

They're latex and nitrile gloves, or occasionally food service gloves. Nobody wears those for long periods. The people who did so in response to the coronavirus tended to be the most cautious people, so they were pretty religious about breaking out a new pair every time they visited a store, or disinfected mail or packages.

If you're talking other types of gloves, I'd agree. Continuous wear is worse than useless.

[Garry G]

I am telling you how it actually works in the USA (which where most of the examples, such as that of CA, are based), from firsthand experience within the field. I don't know, nor do I really care, how it is done in NZ. More likely than not, what they are telling you is their utilization compared to standard capacity, not maximum capacity (the latter of which cannot exceed 100%). I haven't given you any hysterics, but you have given me some true ignorance.

So you think that a Hospital can not have more Patients in it then it has beds for those patients?

Yeah please tell me how things "work"

Are you just an idiot or what?

Generally a hospital wants to be at 80-85% capacity especially in ICU. This gives leeway for unexpected influx of patients outside of normal modelling such as a major fire or something like that. Flu season in the UK and other countries tends to push that as budgets are constrained.

This leads us to ask what a bed actually is. A bed isn't just somewhere for somebody to lie down. It's a place where the patient can be safe, comfortable and there is enough staff and equipment for it. This is very important in ICU where every bed needs a dedicated nurse who has the appropriate training. A hospital can contain more patients than beds but so can a warehouse. Can you see how having more patients than beds might be a problem though?

A hospital running at more than 100% capacity may have physical beds but it doesn't have what all those beds need so people can't be treated and they may die. In extreme circumstances it looks like what happened in Italy but plenty people can die without corridors full of people. There's then ongoing effects that trickle through because of lack of beds for therapy followed by a lack of social care.

New Zealand has pretty good socialised healthcare, I might have lost my sons and wife without it, but without a government that locked the country down and protected it there could have been a lot of deaths. Here in the UK we have pretty good socialised healthcare that due to cuts is normally barely able to get through winter. The US does not have decent healthcare for all.

Is that enough?

[Shasarak]

New Zealand has pretty good socialised healthcare, I might have lost my sons and wife without it, but without a government that locked the country down and protected it there could have been a lot of deaths. Here in the UK we have pretty good socialised healthcare that due to cuts is normally barely able to get through winter. The US does not have decent healthcare for all.

You sound like you know what you are talking about.

[Garry G]

New Zealand has pretty good socialised healthcare, I might have lost my sons and wife without it, but without a government that locked the country down and protected it there could have been a lot of deaths. Here in the UK we have pretty good socialised healthcare that due to cuts is normally barely able to get through winter. The US does not have decent healthcare for all.

You sound like you know what you are talking about.

Nah, I'm just making it up as I go along.

[Shasarak]

New Zealand has pretty good socialised healthcare, I might have lost my sons and wife without it, but without a government that locked the country down and protected it there could have been a lot of deaths. Here in the UK we have pretty good socialised healthcare that due to cuts is normally barely able to get through winter. The US does not have decent healthcare for all.

You sound like you know what you are talking about.

Nah, I'm just making it up as I go along.

Oh, you are the "Otahuhu is a hellhole" guy.  Enough said.

[consolcwby]

Interesting discussions and replies. So, I'll play THE DEVIL IN THE DETAILS for this posting:
MY NEW HYPOTHESIS: The shutdown and the mask mandates have been based on a virus they cannot even prove exists!
--------------------------------
The same group that established the Federal Reserve Bank in the US also financed the Bolshevik Revolution and Hitler and the CCP and promoted the offshoring of US wealth to China. They are the same group behind the World Bank, the IMF, the World Economic Forum and the UN and its numerous agencies, like the WHO.

The Illuminati?

Also, that site you linked to claims there literally is no virus.

Illuminati, from Latin, meaning ENLIGHTENED ONES. Nope. I have seen more enlightened ones in abandoned buildings than I'll ever see in banking!  My butcher is quite enlightened. He gets his meats and cheeses from Canada ~ kosher too!
You may have noticed I stated: I'll play THE DEVIL IN THE DETAILS
Meaning: Devil's Advocate crossed with the term 'The Devil's In The Details'
I do not believe it, however, I am inclined towards the improbable possibilities, meaning I RULE NOTHING OUT. Even the fringe has some interesting speculations and I was taking the article to it's obvious conclusions. IS there even a virus? Is there any other reason for the lockdowns? You of all people should be more sensitive to what is going on - comparing those being disagreed with to rats which need to be exterminated - than most. Therefore, currently, there is a great NEED for people to bring into conversation that which is forbidden by those in power who are repeating the same mistakes in history as before. Unless you plan on being the 21st century's new KAPO. Please read Primo Levi's Survival in Auschwitz for more information regarding current trends.