Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.

[VisionStorm]

An important message about Bravery in the face of a pandemic.

[consolcwby]

So this is what we have come too:
--snipp--

Here's a much more interesting one:

[Mistwell]

Well, here in Los Angeles, we're out of ICU beds. We have 2 people per hour dying of Covid-19 in my county right now, on average.  Daily deaths from COVID-19 in the county have spiked up 267% since Nov. 9.  4,656 COVID-19 patients currently admitted to the hospital. It's at least the second day in a row that number has risen by about 200. About 21% of those patients, or approximately 978, are being treated in intensive-care units. Hospitals now are averaging about 600 coronavirus admissions per day, up from around 500 last week.

[EOTB]

Why hasn't the Governor rented that naval hospital ship yet?  You should recall him, it's not as if they couldn't have done that weeks ago.

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Well, I certainly have lots of problems with how the media has engaged in hysteria with the China virus, and many elements of the government have certainly exploited the China virus to push their own political power and agenda--as well as creating opportunities for trainloads of BS and fraud in our 2020 election.

Then, there is the shrieking cries and hysteria of all the Leftist goodies and Karens which want everyone to bow the fuck down and suck on their fucking ass.

Fuck all of them. Whaa! Whaa! Whaa! Let them choke on their fucking Communist jello.

Having said that, on a legitimate level, as an actual virus, the China virus is certainly a danger to people over 60, and or who have various co-morbidity ailments such as lung problems, diabetes, being fat, and more. Some people get the China virus, and within a week or two are dead.

Then though, you have people under 60 getting the China virus, and experiencing almost entirely different realities in regards to the virus. Some have the sniffles for a week or so, and are fine. Some even barely register a fever, and they recover swiftly--not much different than any other kind of cold or perhaps a weak flu.

Then, however, you have people that are laid the fuck out for two, three, four weeks, loss of smell and taste, fever, coughing, severe fatigue, and feeling like they have been run over by rhinoceroses. There are also some people that claim that there is ongoing, residual damage to their kidneys, lungs, or heart, as a result from having the China virus.

I personally know several people that have fallen precisely along this weird spectrum--from being severely ill for weeks at a time, and suffering the effects of a severe pneumonia-like illness--to those that were fine in a week.

So, while the China virus seems to have a spectrum of effects on different people, it remains true that it is not fatal to the vast majority of people, especially those under the age of 60.

The China virus is just yet another virus that people have to get through and survive, and move the fuck on. The government should not be exercising tyranny though, shutting down society and crippling the economy. There are also many social and political aspects of how the government is handling the China virus as to be deeply suspicious. Can't have small businesses, gyms, or Churches open, but Target, Costco, Walmart, gambling casinos, sex shops and gay bathhouses are just fine in being open.

Lots of BS and problems with that for damned sure.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

[Pat]

The paper that won the Pultizer for covering up one of the greatest genocides of the 20th century published an article arguing that we should use the vaccine rollout as an opportunity to cull old people, because of their race.

Harald Schmidt, an expert in ethics and health policy at the University of Pennsylvania, said that it is reasonable to put essential workers ahead of older adults, given their risks, and that they are disproportionately minorities. "Older populations are whiter, " Dr. Schmidt said. "Society is structured in a way that enables them to live longer. Instead of giving additional health benefits to those who already had more of them, we can start to level the playing field a bit."

Yes, this is a quote from an "expert" and not a direct statement by the paper. But this isn't an opinion piece, it's an article. Which is worse, because they're presenting it as facts, without any serious caveats or opposition. The general thesis is supported by other "experts" (emphasize the "scare" in "scare quotes") in the article.

[moonsweeper]

The paper that won the Pultizer for covering up one of the greatest genocides of the 20th century published an article arguing that we should use the vaccine rollout as an opportunity to cull old people, because of their race.

Harald Schmidt, an expert in ethics and health policy at the University of Pennsylvania, said that it is reasonable to put essential workers ahead of older adults, given their risks, and that they are disproportionately minorities. "Older populations are whiter, " Dr. Schmidt said. "Society is structured in a way that enables them to live longer. Instead of giving additional health benefits to those who already had more of them, we can start to level the playing field a bit."

Yes, these is a quote from "experts" and not direct statements by the paper. But this isn't an opinion piece, it's an article. Which is worse, because they're presenting it as facts, without any serious caveats or opposition. The general thesis is supported by other "experts" (emphasize the "scare" in "scare quotes") in the article.

This is my surprised face.

[Mistwell]

Why hasn't the Governor rented that naval hospital ship yet?  You should recall him, it's not as if they couldn't have done that weeks ago.

I signed and mailed in the recall form.

[Mistwell]

Greetings!

Well, I certainly have lots of problems with how the media has engaged in hysteria with the China virus, and many elements of the government have certainly exploited the China virus to push their own political power and agenda--as well as creating opportunities for trainloads of BS and fraud in our 2020 election.

Then, there is the shrieking cries and hysteria of all the Leftist goodies and Karens which want everyone to bow the fuck down and suck on their fucking ass.

Fuck all of them. Whaa! Whaa! Whaa! Let them choke on their fucking Communist jello.

Having said that, on a legitimate level, as an actual virus, the China virus is certainly a danger to people over 60, and or who have various co-morbidity ailments such as lung problems, diabetes, being fat, and more. Some people get the China virus, and within a week or two are dead.

Then though, you have people under 60 getting the China virus, and experiencing almost entirely different realities in regards to the virus. Some have the sniffles for a week or so, and are fine. Some even barely register a fever, and they recover swiftly--not much different than any other kind of cold or perhaps a weak flu.

Then, however, you have people that are laid the fuck out for two, three, four weeks, loss of smell and taste, fever, coughing, severe fatigue, and feeling like they have been run over by rhinoceroses. There are also some people that claim that there is ongoing, residual damage to their kidneys, lungs, or heart, as a result from having the China virus.

I personally know several people that have fallen precisely along this weird spectrum--from being severely ill for weeks at a time, and suffering the effects of a severe pneumonia-like illness--to those that were fine in a week.

So, while the China virus seems to have a spectrum of effects on different people, it remains true that it is not fatal to the vast majority of people, especially those under the age of 60.

The China virus is just yet another virus that people have to get through and survive, and move the fuck on. The government should not be exercising tyranny though, shutting down society and crippling the economy. There are also many social and political aspects of how the government is handling the China virus as to be deeply suspicious. Can't have small businesses, gyms, or Churches open, but Target, Costco, Walmart, gambling casinos, sex shops and gay bathhouses are just fine in being open.

Lots of BS and problems with that for damned sure.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Even with lockdowns, all ICUs are full in Los Angeles. Though the risk to end up in the ICU if you are under 60 and have no co-morbitities is LOW, it's not ZERO. And we have a population of over 10 million people in our county.

Think for a moment what that means. Every car accident, every person who falls from a tree, whatever injury you can imagine, there is no ICU bed left.

Do you seriously think, if you don't reduce the number of people getting Covid-19 to numbers we can manage, that people under 60 without co-morbitities will be fine in this city if they just go about their daily lives? We have hundreds and hundreds of people who end up in the ICU for normal every day accidents and other non-Covid related incidents every day. THERE IS NO ICU FOR THEM TO GO TO. 

Man, it's just not as pat and simple as you seem to think it is. You cannot just worry about the over-60 and co-morbidity crowd. A smaller but meaningful percentage outside that group also ends up in the ICU and we do not have a hospital system in the U.S. that can handle these kinds of numbers.

[HappyDaze]

Greetings!

Well, I certainly have lots of problems with how the media has engaged in hysteria with the China virus, and many elements of the government have certainly exploited the China virus to push their own political power and agenda--as well as creating opportunities for trainloads of BS and fraud in our 2020 election.

Then, there is the shrieking cries and hysteria of all the Leftist goodies and Karens which want everyone to bow the fuck down and suck on their fucking ass.

Fuck all of them. Whaa! Whaa! Whaa! Let them choke on their fucking Communist jello.

Having said that, on a legitimate level, as an actual virus, the China virus is certainly a danger to people over 60, and or who have various co-morbidity ailments such as lung problems, diabetes, being fat, and more. Some people get the China virus, and within a week or two are dead.

Then though, you have people under 60 getting the China virus, and experiencing almost entirely different realities in regards to the virus. Some have the sniffles for a week or so, and are fine. Some even barely register a fever, and they recover swiftly--not much different than any other kind of cold or perhaps a weak flu.

Then, however, you have people that are laid the fuck out for two, three, four weeks, loss of smell and taste, fever, coughing, severe fatigue, and feeling like they have been run over by rhinoceroses. There are also some people that claim that there is ongoing, residual damage to their kidneys, lungs, or heart, as a result from having the China virus.

I personally know several people that have fallen precisely along this weird spectrum--from being severely ill for weeks at a time, and suffering the effects of a severe pneumonia-like illness--to those that were fine in a week.

So, while the China virus seems to have a spectrum of effects on different people, it remains true that it is not fatal to the vast majority of people, especially those under the age of 60.

The China virus is just yet another virus that people have to get through and survive, and move the fuck on. The government should not be exercising tyranny though, shutting down society and crippling the economy. There are also many social and political aspects of how the government is handling the China virus as to be deeply suspicious. Can't have small businesses, gyms, or Churches open, but Target, Costco, Walmart, gambling casinos, sex shops and gay bathhouses are just fine in being open.

Lots of BS and problems with that for damned sure.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Even with lockdowns, all ICUs are full in Los Angeles. Though the risk to end up in the ICU if you are under 60 and have no co-morbitities is LOW, it's not ZERO. And we have a population of over 10 million people in our county.

Think for a moment what that means. Every car accident, every person who falls from a tree, whatever injury you can imagine, there is no ICU bed left.

Do you seriously think, if you don't reduce the number of people getting Covid-19 to numbers we can manage, that people under 60 without co-morbitities will be fine in this city if they just go about their daily lives? We have hundreds and hundreds of people who end up in the ICU for normal every day accidents and other non-Covid related incidents every day. THERE IS NO ICU FOR THEM TO GO TO. 

Man, it's just not as pat and simple as you seem to think it is. You cannot just worry about the over-60 and co-morbidity crowd. A smaller but meaningful percentage outside that group also ends up in the ICU and we do not have a hospital system in the U.S. that can handle these kinds of numbers.

This takes us back to the early pages of this thread (or maybe the thread that was the precursor to this one). Those insisting that this is just "the sniffles" don't want to look at the ripple effects on the capabilities of the healthcare system even though they want everyone to look at the ripple effects of the lockdowns on the economy. Both are important, and while any sane person should be looking at both, every person's situation (location, demographics, occupation, etc.) are going to make value calls. That's not entirely bad. What is bad is the assholes trying to ignore the other side and dismiss their concerns. Here we have a lot more people wanting to point out the economic risks while brushing off the strain to the healthcare system than we do the reverse.

BTW, it can't help that California is having some strikes among their nurses. I've seen offers for 2-week stints paying $1500/day for scabs.

[Shasarak]

This takes us back to the early pages of this thread (or maybe the thread that was the precursor to this one). Those insisting that this is just "the sniffles" don't want to look at the ripple effects on the capabilities of the healthcare system even though they want everyone to look at the ripple effects of the lockdowns on the economy. Both are important, and while any sane person should be looking at both, every person's situation (location, demographics, occupation, etc.) are going to make value calls. That's not entirely bad. What is bad is the assholes trying to ignore the other side and dismiss their concerns. Here we have a lot more people wanting to point out the economic risks while brushing off the strain to the healthcare system than we do the reverse.

BTW, it can't help that California is having some strikes among their nurses. I've seen offers for 2-week stints paying $1500/day for scabs.

I would believe the "strain on the healthcare" line 9 months ago.

If you have strain on your healthcare now then what the fuck was your state doing for the last 9 months while there was a pandemic raging through the world?

[VisionStorm]

Here we have a lot more people wanting to point out the economic risks while brushing off the strain to the healthcare system than we do the reverse.

And in the real world, from the people in actual power with decision making capabilities (as opposed to whiny bitches in an RPG forum), we have the complete polar opposite. Along with many places were hospitals are NOT overflowing and overcapacity, and no concrete evidence that the lockdowns do in fact work. It's all a faith-based initiative.

[HappyDaze]

This takes us back to the early pages of this thread (or maybe the thread that was the precursor to this one). Those insisting that this is just "the sniffles" don't want to look at the ripple effects on the capabilities of the healthcare system even though they want everyone to look at the ripple effects of the lockdowns on the economy. Both are important, and while any sane person should be looking at both, every person's situation (location, demographics, occupation, etc.) are going to make value calls. That's not entirely bad. What is bad is the assholes trying to ignore the other side and dismiss their concerns. Here we have a lot more people wanting to point out the economic risks while brushing off the strain to the healthcare system than we do the reverse.

BTW, it can't help that California is having some strikes among their nurses. I've seen offers for 2-week stints paying $1500/day for scabs.

I would believe the "strain on the healthcare" line 9 months ago.

If you have strain on your healthcare now then what the fuck was your state doing for the last 9 months while there was a pandemic raging through the world?

Like you said, raging through the world. There are only so many resources--including healthcare workers--to go around. Supply chains have been stepped up, and while that's good news for keeping current operations running, it doesn't directly increase the number of beds available and staffed. The last nine months have not really been focused on erecting new hospitals and training a new crop of workers. While it might be possible to set up field hospitals and staff them with un(der)trained personnel, that's not a solution that's generally acceptable in first world nations until everyone agrees the situation is dire...and there are still a lot of people that don't accept that for various--usually political--reasons.

Out of curiosity, what did you expect the CA healthcare system to have done over the last 9 months to be able to take care of the COVID-19 admission rate it currently faces?

[HappyDaze]

Here we have a lot more people wanting to point out the economic risks while brushing off the strain to the healthcare system than we do the reverse.

And in the real world, from the people in actual power with decision making capabilities (as opposed to whiny bitches in an RPG forum), we have the complete polar opposite. Along with many places were hospitals are NOT overflowing and overcapacity, and no concrete evidence that the lockdowns do in fact work. It's all a faith-based initiative.

Like I said folks, fools here be in denial, like the whiny bitch VisionStorm here shows.

[Mistwell]

This takes us back to the early pages of this thread (or maybe the thread that was the precursor to this one). Those insisting that this is just "the sniffles" don't want to look at the ripple effects on the capabilities of the healthcare system even though they want everyone to look at the ripple effects of the lockdowns on the economy. Both are important, and while any sane person should be looking at both, every person's situation (location, demographics, occupation, etc.) are going to make value calls. That's not entirely bad. What is bad is the assholes trying to ignore the other side and dismiss their concerns. Here we have a lot more people wanting to point out the economic risks while brushing off the strain to the healthcare system than we do the reverse.

BTW, it can't help that California is having some strikes among their nurses. I've seen offers for 2-week stints paying $1500/day for scabs.

I would believe the "strain on the healthcare" line 9 months ago.

If you have strain on your healthcare now then what the fuck was your state doing for the last 9 months while there was a pandemic raging through the world?

It was reasonably assumed the lockdowns would in fact keep the levels well below the ICU bed numbers we have, or at least below the level we've been ramping up for all along (and we have added ICU slots all along). And it did. For 9 months. And then massive spike on top of massive spike. Which was not predicted. By anyone.

Did you imagine we would what, import more ICU-level emergency doctors just in case? Where would we get them? It's not a matter of physical beds, it's a matter of the people able to deal with an ICU-level situation.

And remember this is WITH LOCKDOWNS. SHARK is advocating no lock-downs So the number of needed ICU beds would be even more than the number needed now.