Christianity of Narnia vs. LoTR

[RPGPundit]

I've noticed that a lot of people are now trying to shill Narnia as the "license that could save roleplaying"; replacing the earlier choices of Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings.

Frankly, I don't believe that any license is the key to "saving" the RPG industry/hobby.  The key to that is to create more games oriented at younger players with clever delivery methods and marketing.

And Narnia, in particular, would be a poor choice.  People seem to forget Narnia is only really Narnia as a Christian allegory.

This isn't a bad thing because its a "christian allegory" per se, but because the very nature of how the Christian allegory works is one that is not very condusive to Roleplaying.  Specifically, the protestant Christian allegory that C.S. Lewis was working under.

You see, Lord of the Rings is a christian allegory too, but it differs in two critical ways. Firstly, it is far less heavy-handed than Narnia.  In the latter the message is clearly overt, whereas in the former it is mingled with norse myth and fairy stories in a way that you can have a fairly "pagan" interpretation of Lord of the Rings.  To the extent, in fact, that many people seem to fail to realize that LoTR IS a christian allegory, and many (including many so-called literary critics or experts) end up misinterpreting the fundamental message of that story.
The second way it differs is that the specific Christian allegory that LoTR presents is a thuroughly Catholic one.  Its one about the importance of goodness, and how even the meek can and must make a difference, by using their (wholly imperfect) abilities to try to serve good in the world, and that in that way a meek and imperfect person can save himself, and the world. Its the basic philosophy of Thomas Aquinas, the philosophy of Catholic doctrine.

On the other hand, Lewis' philosophy in Narnia is the classic protestant christian philosophy. It is one where a person's own flaws will damn him, unless he makes the choice to accept salvation; and if he does so it is that faith that will save him and the world.

In LoTR there is no Magic Lion that comes along to save the day. God's influence is represented, through Gandalf, as one that helps and protects, and guides people to being able to make that difference. Faith is something that gives you strength to do what is right, but you do not triumph because of faith; you triumph because of your own works, by which your faith is known.

This is the perennial Christian dilemma: how can an imperfect person possibly be good enough to warrant salvation? The catholic answer is that god does not expect you to be perfect, he expects you to do the very best you can with what you are: it is about what you do with the time you are given.  The protestant answer is that you cannot possibly make it on your own, but god does not expect you to; your own efforts are futile, but putting your faith in god is all that is expected of you, so that's ok.

What this means as far as roleplaying is concerned is that your protagonism is wiped out by the ultimate "pet NPC": GOD.  Aslan the magic lion is the one who can defeat the forces of evil, not you, no matter what you do; and your only task is to be one of the rah-rah true believers that fights for his glorious army.

Could you make a Narnia-like setting that didn't depend on this fundamental concept? Sure, but it wouldn't be Narnia.  Unlike Tolkien, Lewis wasn't a huge fan of fairy stories or mythology, and his only real goal in the creation of the Narnia stories was to create a (pleasant) christian parable for children.  I have no idea how the upcoming movies will address this, but it certainly wouldn't be a strong choice for a roleplaying game, and it would be far from the choice of game that I would pick for an "industry saver".

RPGPundit nov 30 2005

[Abyssal Maw]

Interesting topic.

I do think Narnia is interesting as a 'world' (Christian allegory aside- there's long stretches of the Narnia timeline where Aslan doesn't make an appearance) and there was a very popular roleplaying MUSH based on Narnia for a while. But it was also the place of some very bitter battles over 'what Narnia should be'.

Not that it would 'save' roleplaying (haha, it's funny, because its only been a year and now that movie is barely memorable).

But if I was at a con and I saw an event called "Savage Worlds: Narnia! Kick Calormene Ass!" or something, I'd check that out, sure.

[James McMurray]

So you're saying you couldn't make an RPG in Narnia? I think that's pretty short-sighted of you. Vast swaths of the World of Darkness system are based around resisting damnation, and it seems to do well.

Aslan the magic lion is the one who can defeat the forces of evil, not you, no matter what you do; and your only task is to be one of the rah-rah true believers that fights for his glorious army.

Not so. The other characters in the books do all sorts of important stuff. It's like saying that only Elmionster can do anything and you have to be a supporting member of the cast. That might be true for some punk GMs, but it's far from a universal statement.

[Spike]

So you're saying you couldn't make an RPG in Narnia? I think that's pretty short-sighted of you. Vast swaths of the World of Darkness system are based around resisting damnation, and it seems to do well.



Not so. The other characters in the books do all sorts of important stuff. It's like saying that only Elmionster can do anything and you have to be a supporting member of the cast. That might be true for some punk GMs, but it's far from a universal statement.

Taken from the perspective of the single book, or the movie alone, making a Narnia RPG does present a significant challenge unless you just want to cover the setting and not the book.  The series I suspect would be much less problematic.

Remove the allegory central to the story and you arguably don't have Narnia, keep it and you don't have an RPG...

[James McMurray]

Why not? RPGs can't have allegories? They can't be about events that the PCs are a part of but not the primary movers?

[Spike]

Why not? RPGs can't have allegories? They can't be about events that the PCs are a part of but not the primary movers?

If the GM and players wish to tell an allegorical tale, that is there business. However, trying to write the game to enforce that sort of tale will alienate many players, as we've seen in small detail on line. Of course, marketing it solely to the sort of audience of gamers that likes retelling the same specific story as their game (my life with master, etc...) would work, but then such a game would be hardly the 'industry saver', much less worth the cost of the licence deal.

[David R]

Aragon would so kick Aslan's ass. Then Aslan would rise from the dead...and Aragon would kick his ass again...

Where's your allegory now, Mr. Pundit

Regards,
David R

[James McMurray]

Oh, I have no doubt that Narnia, in any form, is not an "industry saver." the movie was nice, and the books were great, but the people that know the books are too old*, and the movie was nice but completely overshadowed by being compared to LotR.

* To be targetted as "the new generation of roleplayers."

[PhishStyx]

Lord of the Rings is a christian allegory

Ok, so we know that literary analysis isn't your strong suit. Yeah, lots of people claimed this point, but it's WAY off the mark.

But truthiness wins again, I guess.

[Blackleaf]

I thought LotR was based on Tolkien's own philosophies... which were of course largely influenced by his religion.  I think the Pundit is correct with his analysis... although I guess you could debate whether it's a "christian allegory" or an "allegory based on christianity" or even an "allegory partly based on christianity" -- but I think it's a clear influence on his work.

It's all about New Testament , Bay-Bee!

[Sosthenes]

The link between Narnia and christian belief is pretty clear. Lewis was _very_ vocal when it came to supporting his religion.

Tolkien was a little more laid back in that regard. You could probably find some christian stuff in the LotR books, but I think a lot of that goes back to common mythological themes, so the argument for allegories to other religions could probably be made.

Having said that, I think that the Narnia books are a little bit too focused on the main story to provide a good independent backdrop for a role-playing game. But I'd say that the same is true -- in a slightly lesser degree -- for the Lord or the Rings. Middle Earth isn't "alive" enough for a detailed setting. MERP had lots of cool stuff, but most of that wasn't much in line with LotR themes.

[James McMurray]

I thought LotR was based on Tolkien's own philosophies... which were of course largely influenced by his religion.

Pure and utter crap. If that were the case then LotR would have had a magical good guy that came to warn people against corruption and evil. Then he would have died to save everyone else. Then he would have come back from the dead a few days later.

The only real difference between the two metaphorically speaking is that Narnia says "work hard and Aslon will provide." LotR says "Gandalf helps those who help themselves."

[RPGPundit]

Pure and utter crap. If that were the case then LotR would have had a magical good guy that came to warn people against corruption and evil. Then he would have died to save everyone else. Then he would have come back from the dead a few days later.

The only real difference between the two metaphorically speaking is that Narnia says "work hard and Aslon will provide." LotR says "Gandalf helps those who help themselves."

Um, no... LoTR is definitely Catholic in its morality, its just way more subtle than Narnia.

What a lot of people don't get is that Tolkien was basically rewriting the old Norse/Germanic pagan myths within a Catholic moral framework.

RPGpundit

[PhishStyx]

Tolkien wasn't trying to write an allegorical story because he hated allegories; for example, the new edition of the Silmarrillion contains letters Tolkien wrote wherein he discusses how he thinks allegories are crap writing (I'm paraphrasing, of course).

According to his son, he was attempting to give the Brits a deep mythology (similarly to Greek myth) that they simply don't have otherwise. He wrote the Elvish language and various songs because he foresaw other people writing songs and plays and whatnot using Middle-Earth as a setting.

In other words if he were around now, he'd quite possibly be a rpg publisher of some variety.

[jcfiala]

Hm.  I think a roleplaying game set in the Narnia world could be very interesting, and wouldn't have to rely on a Magic Lion to solve everything.  Although the Magic Lion saving the day problem exists in the first few books, there's a few where he's much less apparent - I don't remember him doing much at all in 'Voyage of the Dawn Treader', and I also don't remember him doing much in 'A Horse and his Boy'.  I'm also not thinking that there's much of Aslan where he's acting in 'the Silver Chair' - admittedly the end involves the protagonists using their religious belief to shake off an evil spell, but that's hardly an unusual idea for a story.

Doing up another campaign, where the players are part of an exploration into nearby countries either in the Two Kings and Two Queens era or else re-establishing the empire in the Prince Caspian/Dawn Treader era would probably work very well.  Beyond that, there's a lot of Narnian history that's barely even mentioned and could easily allow for a lot of derring do in the name of Aslan, without his Deus Ex machina.