2020 Election Commentary

[rawma]

Well, he did vastly improve the American economy after the Obama Administration's doldrums....

Even ignoring the pandemic which has left Trump with the worst economic record, the Obama economy was better, but I'm not interested in arguing over how to weight different elements or exactly how much credit or blame presidents should get. (Trump of course wants credit for stock market increases during the 2016 transition and for those in the 2020 transition.)

It's enough to point out that there's no Super Bowl win for the score after three quarters. Trump can have a tiny participation trophy; it's topped with the figure of a Confederate general.

[rawma]

One of the side effects of over dosing on Fentanyl is breathing problems and or death.

Autopsy says homicide.

A defendant must take his victim as he finds him, and it is no defense that the victim is suffering from physical infirmities.

[Shasarak]

One of the side effects of over dosing on Fentanyl is breathing problems and or death.

Autopsy says homicide.

A defendant must take his victim as he finds him, and it is no defense that the victim is suffering from physical infirmities.

The Hennepin County medical examiner said that Floyd bloodwork showed a "fatal level of fentanyl," according to court documents, but he didn't say this killed him.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/sep/25/blog-posting/two-autopsies-found-george-floyds-death-was-homici/

[rawma]

The right will believe just about anything and on the other hand even they cant gag down the stuff people like CNN put out.

What they'll believe is driven mostly by what they want to be true; what they'll not believe is driven mostly by what they want to not be true. They'll immediately tout a CNN story if it makes a political opponent look bad. It's all truthiness, not truth.

People rejoice in claims that reinforce what they want to be true; the important thing is to try to verify it before promulgating what may be misinformation. The right don't do that; they don't even care when their unfounded beliefs contradict each other.

One of the side effects of over dosing on Fentanyl is breathing problems and or death.

Autopsy says homicide.

A defendant must take his victim as he finds him, and it is no defense that the victim is suffering from physical infirmities.

The Hennepin County medical examiner said that Floyd bloodwork showed a "fatal level of fentanyl," according to court documents, but he didn't say this killed him.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/sep/25/blog-posting/two-autopsies-found-george-floyds-death-was-homici/

Did you read your own source? Or just get a clue from the URL itself? The claim that Floyd died of a drug overdose is ruled False. Autopsy says homicide, as I said.

To explain the point you clearly did not understand, speculation that Floyd might have died later that day if Chauvin hadn't killed him is no defense to the charge of having killed him. The legal penalties for depriving a person of one hour of life by killing him is the same as depriving him of decades of life by killing him.

[Trond]

Cue the conspiracy theories.....

The fact that he said he couldn't breathe before he was put on the ground doesn't bother you? Or that he was so high that he was visibly losing it? What was the motive for the police officers, some white and some Asian, to intentionally harm him with death as a result?

The main reason why this is more likely to happen to black people is because crime and drug use are higher in black communities. There really is a "gangster culture" among a portion of the African Americans. Blaming "systemic racism" is part of the problem, because it ignores the cultural problems which is internal to current black culture. If the white majority are so racist, how come East Asians and South Asians earn more than whites in America? Are whites positively inclined towards people who look like Indians and East Asians? Besides, black people who arrived from Africa more recently also do great in America. My wife and I are an "interracial couple" (and very visibly so) living in America, and we honestly don't see the notorious American racism. 

Besides, where was the "systemic racism" when Bill Cosby was raping white women, or OJ Simpson got away with murdering one? Where were the notorious KKK with all their nooses and burning crosses? The American left is hysterical about race, for historical reasons of course, but it's not currently going to any good places.

I won't miss Trump either, but that part is simply empty words, with nothing to do with the subject.

It had a lot to do with Carter Page, but you wouldn't know if you only listened to one side. The moment it didn't go anywhere they tried to bury it.

[Shasarak]

The right will believe just about anything and on the other hand even they cant gag down the stuff people like CNN put out.

What they'll believe is driven mostly by what they want to be true; what they'll not believe is driven mostly by what they want to not be true. They'll immediately tout a CNN story if it makes a political opponent look bad. It's all truthiness, not truth.

People rejoice in claims that reinforce what they want to be true; the important thing is to try to verify it before promulgating what may be misinformation. The right don't do that; they don't even care when their unfounded beliefs contradict each other.

One of the side effects of over dosing on Fentanyl is breathing problems and or death.

Autopsy says homicide.

A defendant must take his victim as he finds him, and it is no defense that the victim is suffering from physical infirmities.

The Hennepin County medical examiner said that Floyd bloodwork showed a "fatal level of fentanyl," according to court documents, but he didn't say this killed him.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/sep/25/blog-posting/two-autopsies-found-george-floyds-death-was-homici/

Did you read your own source? Or just get a clue from the URL itself? The claim that Floyd died of a drug overdose is ruled False. Autopsy says homicide, as I said.

To explain the point you clearly did not understand, speculation that Floyd might have died later that day if Chauvin hadn't killed him is no defense to the charge of having killed him. The legal penalties for depriving a person of one hour of life by killing him is the same as depriving him of decades of life by killing him.

Of course I read the source, that is how come I knew that he had a fatal overdose of Fentanyl.

As for homicide, that would be up to the prosecutors to prove.

[KingCheops]

It had a lot to do with Carter Page, but you wouldn't know if you only listened to one side. The moment it didn't go anywhere they tried to bury it.

Yup.  CIA told FBI that Page was their resource and thus had contact with Russians as part of their work.  FBI omitted that in their FISA application and used Page as the excuse to open up Crossfire Hurricane.  They knowingly lied to the judge and are going to get away with it.

Low information DemonKKKrats are going to be the most bitter complainers when USA becomes full on fascist.  Enjoy Biden/Kamala you dipshits.  You get what you deserve at this point.

[rawma]

Did you read your own source? Or just get a clue from the URL itself? The claim that Floyd died of a drug overdose is ruled False. Autopsy says homicide, as I said.

Of course I read the source, that is how come I knew that he had a fatal overdose of Fentanyl.

As for homicide, that would be up to the prosecutors to prove.

Reading but not understanding. Fatal overdose is irrelevant if it's not the cause of death, as your link says it is not. Cause of death was homicide; the charges brought include murder and manslaughter, which is what the prosecutors must prove. The cause of death will be relevant to prosecution and defense, but "he would have died anyway of X" is not a defense if X is not the cause of death.

[Pat]

I always liked McCain, but there were warning signs. He was a member of the Keating 5, after all. And he ran an uninspired presidential campaign.

But nowadays, he's the replacement for George HW Bush -- a moderate and non-controversial opposition politician who can be safely lionized by the Democrats because he's dead. That allows them to prominently proclaim their bipartisanship without fear of contradiction, while at the same time blasting living Republicans for being too partisan.  It's never their peers who display statesmanlike qualities; that term only applies to those who have started to recede into the past.

[Shasarak]

Did you read your own source? Or just get a clue from the URL itself? The claim that Floyd died of a drug overdose is ruled False. Autopsy says homicide, as I said.

Of course I read the source, that is how come I knew that he had a fatal overdose of Fentanyl.

As for homicide, that would be up to the prosecutors to prove.

Reading but not understanding. Fatal overdose is irrelevant if it's not the cause of death, as your link says it is not. Cause of death was homicide; the charges brought include murder and manslaughter, which is what the prosecutors must prove. The cause of death will be relevant to prosecution and defense, but "he would have died anyway of X" is not a defense if X is not the cause of death.

Not to mention the fact that you think it takes a highly trained officer 8 minutes to choke someone to death.

The ridiculousness just keeps piling up.

[rawma]

Cue the conspiracy theories.....

The fact that he said he couldn't breathe before he was put on the ground doesn't bother you?

If he couldn't breathe before Chauvin knelt on his neck, maybe they should have called the ambulance then rather than after killing him?

Your naive belief that police would never commit crimes is laughable.

It had a lot to do with Carter Page, but you wouldn't know if you only listened to one side. The moment it didn't go anywhere they tried to bury it.

It's not clear that the surveillance would not have happened with the correct information that Carter Page had been a source for the CIA. Presumably the Carter Page lawsuit may shed light on that. Horowitz discounted bias as the motivation for the investigation; Durham was deployed to dispute that conclusion and to find dirt on Obama and Biden but apparently could not; another fizzled October surprise.

But the Russian investigation apparently did go somewhere, to multiple convictions and many possible obstruction charges that could have been pursued against Trump except for the DOJ policy of not indicting sitting presidents, and might still be. Carter Page does appear to have been irrelevant; pity the Republican leaders of the FBI chose to go after him. The people investigated who lied and obstructed justice were presumably the ones who committed crimes they had to hide; it's the coverup, as we learned in Watergate.

[Mistwell]

I always liked McCain, but there were warning signs. He was a member of the Keating 5, after all. And he ran an uninspired presidential campaign.

But nowadays, he's the replacement for George HW Bush -- a moderate and non-controversial opposition politician who can be safely lionized by the Democrats because he's dead. That allows them to prominently proclaim their bipartisanship without fear of contradiction, while at the same time blasting living Republicans for being too partisan.  It's never their peers who display statesmanlike qualities; that term only applies to those who have started to recede into the past.

I voted for and supported HW Bush, Dole, W Bush, McCain, and Romney. I like Kasich and Rubio, Jeb Bush, and Christie before he imploded. I like Paul Ryan. Jindal, Walker, Rick Scott, and Perry were not bad either. In fact I am OK with Mike Pence in general. I might like Tom Cotton and Josh Hawley, after I see more of them.

You can pretend the only Republican is Trump, but that's nonsense. You know who is now in the past? Trump.  His policies are not particularly Republican. He's a populist, and that's what he does primarily and everything else is secondary to that.

[rawma]

But nowadays, he's the replacement for George HW Bush -- a moderate and non-controversial opposition politician who can be safely lionized by the Democrats because he's dead. That allows them to prominently proclaim their bipartisanship without fear of contradiction, while at the same time blasting living Republicans for being too partisan.  It's never their peers who display statesmanlike qualities; that term only applies to those who have started to recede into the past.

President-elect Biden and Senator John McCain were longtime friends in the Senate; McCain worked with Russ Feingold on campaign finance reform, and they shared a Profile in Courage Award.

At least President Trump has shown remarkable consistency, attacking the man both before and after his death.

I voted for and supported HW Bush, Dole, W Bush, McCain, and Romney. I like Kasich and Rubio, Jeb Bush, and Christie before he imploded. I like Paul Ryan. Jindal, Walker, Rick Scott, and Perry were not bad either. In fact I am OK with Mike Pence in general. I might like Tom Cotton and Josh Hawley, after I see more of them.

You can pretend the only Republican is Trump, but that's nonsense. You know who is now in the past? Trump.

I have in the past respected a few of those, but too many of them pushed dishonestly for their preferred policies. I respected Kasich in 2016 when, unlike Cruz, he did not grovel in front of Trump. I thought he was playing for a leadership role in the wreckage Trump would leave behind, but speaking at the DNC this year and so ruining his chances with Republicans suggests that was too cynical.

If most Republicans today don't deserve respect, it's because they rolled over for Trump.

[rawma]

Not to mention the fact that you think it takes a highly trained officer 8 minutes to choke someone to death.

Yeah, too many witnesses to shoot him and plant a gun on the body so I guess they had to go the inefficient route.

Since when is choking people to death part of police training?

[Trond]

Cue the conspiracy theories.....

The fact that he said he couldn't breathe before he was put on the ground doesn't bother you?

If he couldn't breathe before Chauvin knelt on his neck, maybe they should have called the ambulance then rather than after killing him?

Your naive belief that police would never commit crimes is laughable.

Oh yes, that is my general sentiment. The police are superhuman and can never commit crimes. Honest argument as usual.

It does seem a bit odd though. The guy has a huge (potentially lethal) amount of drugs in his system, also heart issues, and also Covid, also apparently sickle cell trait. But sure, it must have been second degree murder. The sheer massive pressure of public opinion, having been fed stories of white racism from the media ignoring similar cases with white people, couldn't have anything to do with it.