Why is basic Pattern worth 50 points?

RPGPundit · April 25, 2009, 12:43:05 AM

Ok, so this is a hypothetical here: why is it, how do you justify to a player, that basic pattern imprint is worth half of his available starting points?

I mean, as far as a power goes, how is it useful other than to let you travel unlimited shadow? And I mean, that's cool, right, and the little bits of shadow manipulation seem cool, and you can kind of use it for defense (if you do fuck all else), but really compared to other, cheaper powers, it seems to suck ass apart from the "Unlimited travel" deal.

Shapeshifting, logrus, or even sorcery all seem more overall versatile in their usability.

RPGPundit

Trevelyan · April 27, 2009, 08:35:41 AM

IMNSHO it isn't

Croaker · April 27, 2009, 09:02:21 AM

Protection from logrus is awesome.
Other that that... Pffff

Say, it is the fastest shadow travel method, it allows you to manipulate probabilities on a fine scale without your opponent noticing, to defend yourself against most psychic attacks, to find almost anything in shadow, and also to follow a shadow trail.

Croaker, Devil's Advocate.

JongWK · April 27, 2009, 09:31:56 AM

Quote from: Croaker;298830Protection from logrus is awesome.

But it also hurts your character...

weilide · April 27, 2009, 09:35:58 AM

I suspect that a big part is that it buys you into the royal house of Amber. It may be that the question is not why is pattern so expensive but why is Amber devotee so cheap?

Croaker · April 27, 2009, 01:38:02 PM

Quote from: JongWK;298835But it also hurts your character...

Are you sure???

Quote from: weilide;298837I suspect that a big part is that it buys you into the royal house of Amber. It may be that the question is not why is pattern so expensive but why is Amber devotee so cheap?

Because this comes with free ennemies?

weilide · April 27, 2009, 03:15:30 PM

Quote from: Croaker;298869Are you sure???

Because this comes with free ennemies?

Well, I prefer to think of them as story delivery vehicles. But the free room and board is also nice.

JongWK · April 27, 2009, 03:45:34 PM

Quote from: Croaker;298869Are you sure???

That's how it happened in the campaign I'm playing. A logrus tendril grabbed my character, and he summoned Pattern to disrupt it. What happened was that he was left so exhausted by the disruption that he could barely do anything else. The GM said that both sides get hurt, based on Psyche--so using Pattern against a strong Logrus Master seems like a one-way ticket to trouble.

gabriel_ss4u · April 27, 2009, 08:38:24 PM

I like Croaker's thought, a good GM talent is being able to build up whatever you need to in order to get the PC interested. His explanation got my interest.
It is a valid question... I mean... 1/2 yer points is A LOT.
I remember reading some thoughts posted about downgrading the price of Pattern in a Chaos-based campaign. I could see some logic in that if the GM deemed it thus.
In an Amber-based game though, the best argument for getting Pattern I think is; "Cause your siblings are getting it, don't be the 'lame' Amberite"
Of course, there are other ways around it to make an effective character, but it will always look & act like 'Pattern-lite'. In some situations, you may have to depend on your siblings Pattern Power.
Another reason is the ability to describe the twisting of reality and getting the manipulation of shadow. The only true power that compares is Logrus, and that costs alot more to get effectively.

Croaker · April 28, 2009, 12:54:01 AM

Quote from: JongWK;298898That's how it happened in the campaign I'm playing. A logrus tendril grabbed my character, and he summoned Pattern to disrupt it. What happened was that he was left so exhausted by the disruption that he could barely do anything else. The GM said that both sides get hurt, based on Psyche--so using Pattern against a strong Logrus Master seems like a one-way ticket to trouble.

Then, I may be wrong, but this seem to be campain-specific.
IIRC, in ADRPG, Pattern provides near to absolute protection vs Logrus

Nihilistic Mind · April 28, 2009, 02:52:16 AM

Quote from: JongWK;298898That's how it happened in the campaign I'm playing. A logrus tendril grabbed my character, and he summoned Pattern to disrupt it. What happened was that he was left so exhausted by the disruption that he could barely do anything else. The GM said that both sides get hurt, based on Psyche--so using Pattern against a strong Logrus Master seems like a one-way ticket to trouble.

Yeah, but if it was really THAT BAD, imagine what it would have been like without Pattern.

boulet · April 28, 2009, 08:36:42 AM

Quote from: Croaker;298954Then, I may be wrong, but this seem to be campain-specific.
IIRC, in ADRPG, Pattern provides near to absolute protection vs Logrus

OTOH even Corwin had massive headaches when he forced his way through the black road. "Absolute protection" != painless.

Croaker · April 28, 2009, 03:49:57 PM

I said "in ADRPG"

The corebook talks about Logrus vulnerability to Pattern (p47, and probably more). IIRC, nowhere does it states any vulnerability of Pattern to Logrus energies.

As per corwin, I never saw this as confrontation with Logrus, but rather as an effort to alter a too real segment of shadow

boulet · April 28, 2009, 03:53:21 PM

Quote from: Croaker;299036As per corwin, I never saw this as confrontation with Logrus, but rather as an effort to alter a too real segment of shadow

I'm not buying that. If it was just some odd shadow substance slowing his progression why did he have to summon an image of the pattern in order to force the way ? The black road isn't the Logrus, but there's a link.

gabriel_ss4u · April 28, 2009, 09:46:19 PM

I hear ya Croaker
"an all too REAL segment"
He's not saying the substance wasn't real, it was.
However the Shadow (realm) was shadow.
Being that it was linked to Chaos, and Logrus created most likely, the Pattern was able to erase it... just the section he walked across. There was strain, but he had the will and endurance to do it.