To Still 'Game' Without Dice

[Panjumanju]

Enamoured with Amber Diceless, I've looked into every other diceless (specifically randomless) roleplaying game I could find, and they seem, on the whole - directionless, muddled, and too light to carry the weight of their own subject matter. I find nothing of the substance in them that I find in Amber.

I understand why Amber Diceless itself seems like all of these things on the outside to someone who has not played it, or to someone who has had a poor GMing experience, and that some people who love Amber still find it in some ways lacking.

To me Amber is more than adequately substantial. If your experiences are in any way the same - what is the difference?

What is the thing that separates Amber (and its relatives) from the rest of diceless drudgery? I think Lords of Gossamer & Shadow and Lords of Olympus well establish that it is not Zelazny that makes all the difference. Or has your experience been something entirely apart from this?

Thoughts?

//Panjumanju

[Evermasterx]

I only played ADRPG and LoO.
LoO is good, but I remember that reading ADRPG was like been struck by a lightning bolt! I had to play it. Innovative. Stimulating. In a word genius.
I read Theatrix, but I found it boring and didn't played.
Instead Nobilis was for me very interesting, but lengthy and burdened by too much artistic presunption. Maybe one day I'll study it seriously.
I bought LoGaS but didn't read it seriously still, altough it looks good too and will be my next game to play.
A borderline game that can be diceless if you don't use the Law of Fortune, (as allowed by the rules) that in my opinion is very good is Everway, and I played it a lot.

[finarvyn]

Most of the diceless games out there seem to (1) lack the interesting setting, and (2) add in layers of mechanics that seem overly complex. I read Theatrix, Everway, Nobilis and maybe some others, and they just don't seem that interesting to me. I think they try too hard to be "cosmically cool" and they come off as confusing in terms of terminology and verbiage.

Amber Diceless (and by extension LoGas and LoO) is different in that it's simple and flows well. There can be layers of details if you like, or the game can be stripped away to its base concepts and it still plays well. The base setting for Amber is easy to remember -- a simple Pattern versus Chaos struggle. LoO is the same, with the standard Olympian cosmology that many folks are familiar with already.

[Croaker]

Amber is both simple, huge, and epic.

Simple: The game flows smoothly, is easy to understand and play. You can take a bunch of players and game almost instantly

Huge: The universe is vast, and leads itself to almost any kind of story, character or setting

Epic: You play characters that are basically demigods, that can ignore almost nothing short of one of their peers. And when something is a menace, it not the earth that may be destroyed, or the universe, but the multiverse.

Few gales can beat this.

[ArrozConLeche]

Have you ever checked out Solipsist? http://www.solipsist-rpg.com/

It's not diceless in the way that Amber & its derivatives are, with Ranks. Rather, it uses a resource economy. You might need to spend points to achieve a result, but sometimes in pushing past limits you gain more points. This is, in turn, balanced by the danger of gaining a 'tear' in reality. Gain one too many of those, and your character 'ascends'; the equivalent of losing it.

I think it's pretty elegant.

[Panjumanju]

Have you ever checked out Solipsist? http://www.solipsist-rpg.com/

That sounds interesting, I'll check it out.

//Panjumanju

[Croaker]

Oh? I'll look into it, thanks!

[Croaker]

Site was down, and still is

[ArrozConLeche]

I think there's a yahoo group. I'll look for it later. I know they sell the game at OBS, but I'll see if Lulu has it,or the vendor still sells direct.

[ArrozConLeche]

http://theunstore.com/index.php/unstore/game/20

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/solipsist/info

[RPGPundit]

I really don't think any other diceless game did it right besides the Amber system games.

Everway wasn't technically "diceless" but it actually came closest to doing a good job.

[TristramEvans]

Everway wasn't technically "diceless" but it actually came closest to doing a good job.

Does "diceless" mean something more than, well, dice-less?

[Panjumanju]

Does "diceless" mean something more than, well, dice-less?

In the terms of Erick Wujcik, 'diceless' also means 'randomless'; without any mechanic for generating random results such as dice, cards, sticks, runes, et al.

//Panjumanju

[TristramEvans]

In the terms of Erick Wujcik, 'diceless' also means 'randomless'; without any mechanic for generating random results such as dice, cards, sticks, runes, et al.

//Panjumanju

Then Everyway is truly "Diceless". Cards are used, but dont form any sort of resolution mechanic in the same way as Saga.

Everway offers three ethods of resolution, that basically amount to 3 forms of GM fiat: The GM decies what happens/the GM looks at the PC's ability scores nd decides what happens/the Gm draws a (tarot-like) picture card and interprets it as they see fit to decide what happens.

Its actually one of the problems I have with the game.

[TristramEvans]

In the terms of Erick Wujcik, 'diceless' also means 'randomless'; without any mechanic for generating random results such as dice, cards, sticks, runes, et al.

//Panjumanju

Then Everyway is truly "Diceless". Cards are used, but dont form any sort of resolution mechanic in the same way as Saga.

Everway offers three methods of resolution, that basically amount to 3 forms of GM fiat: The GM decides what happens/the GM looks at the PC's ability scores and decides what happens/the Gm draws a (tarot-like) picture card and interprets it as they see fit to decide what happens.

Its actually one of the problems I have with the game.