So what was the origin of the auction system?

[JongWK]

I'm curious to know how did Mr. Wujcik come up with it, because Amber DRPG is the only game I know that uses such a system. :cool:

[finarvyn]

I don't know the exact history, but I have wandered through ADRP message boards for quite a while and am always looking for Erick's ideas and suggestions on them. A poster on one had asked about auctions...

How wedded are you to auctions? I see them as setting the tone and being indispensable to a long term campaign, but I know that many players and GM’s out there prefer to just let each person spend their own points without auctioning stats.

And here was Erick's reply...

Personally, I love Attribute Auctions.

Am I 'wedded' to them? Hard to say. I don't use them exclusively, and there are plenty of times when they aren't appropriate (short one-shots at a convention, for example), but I think they are really the best at generating stimulating new player characters.

It's been my experience that the best characters are generated when at least a little stress is applied to the player (note: I am talking about the 'player' not the character, I want the person to experience the difficulties – clearly some people are uncomfortable with this concept).

Partly this is simple human nature, as well as the nature of games. We play with human beings because they flumox our expectations and change the way we view the world. An Attribute Auction functions more than just as a way for players to spend points... it informs each player of the nature of the universe they are creating. And dealing with the limits and difficulties imposed by the Attribute Auction, players are forced to make compromises, be innovative & creative, and generally think about their character in a much more interesting context (i.e. as one of a group).

My personal experience, which is highly idiosyncratic, but also fairly diverse (I've Game Mastered thousands of player characters) is that players with characters that are the result of Attribute Auctions are inherently more interesting than the sterile concoctions that come out of pure number-crunching (intuitively, it's equivalent to the dice-based situation; the character rolled at the table, versus the one 'rolled' at home where the table one has more energy).

This difference, again in my experience, gets more profound a year or two into play. The character developed by numbers doesn't change much (perhaps because they're already the player's ideal?), while the auction-generated characters display a much greater dynamic.

Here's a crazy analogy. In each session players 'ride' their characters. The characters created calmly, statistically, by the numbers, turn out passive and domesticated; they go where you want, but without much in the way of surprises. Characters churned out from an Attribute Auctions are like mustangs cut out of a wild herd, bucking and snorting, far from perfect but offering the chance for a lot more excitement.

Those who forgo the Auction, in my opinion, could be missing the ride of a lifetime...

Again, not an exact answer to your question but maybe it helps. Everything I have read indicates that the auction was already in place by 1986, which predates ADRP's GenCon debut by at least a year....

[Erick Wujcik]

I'm curious to know how did Mr. Wujcik come up with it, because Amber DRPG is the only game I know that uses such a system. :cool:

The whole system was designed late in the summer of 1986, after I had discussed the possibility of designing and writing an Amber Role-Playing Game with West End Games. It didn't take long, since I talked with the West End guys at Gencon (August 14th-17th, 1986), and the first play-test, with the first Attribute Auction, took place at the Michigan Gaming Center, before the end of August.

I was looking for a character creation system that would simulate the rivalry between Corwin and his siblings as presented by Roger Zelazny in the Chronicles of Amber. Neither of the two conventional choices, random generation or point allocation, seemed like it would work.

On the other hand, I loved the idea of a system where the players would start interacting, and even competing, even as they were involved in character creation.

Based on the books, it was pretty clear that there were four significant attributes. Clearly, Gerard was #1 in Strength, Benedict had the reputation for being first in Warfare, either Brand or Fiona was the leader in Psyche, and Corwin demonstrated outstanding Endurance throughout the series (growing back his eyeballs in record time, etc.).

The idea of a series of auctions seemed to fit, especially if it was clear that (1) the 'winner' of each would be, hand's down, the very best in that attribute, (2) that all points bid would be points spent, thereby creating a 'ladder' of ranking, and (3) that there could be secret buys afterward, creating the kind of uncertainty that we had seen in the rivalry between Corwin and Eric.

My biggest concern was that four Attribute Auctions would take too much time. Fortunately, they turned out to be a lot of fun, even in the very first play-test.

Fortunately there was a big turn-out, even more than I expected, so we had nineteen (19) participants, and some pretty spirited bidding. Psyche was especially crazy, with the top three bidding 92, 91 and 89 points.

Everyone thought that nineteen was way too large a group for a single role-playing game, and I agreed with enthusiasm.

"Don't worry," I said, "you'll be split into two entirely different groups, based on two entirely different versions of the Amber Universe. One group will play as children of the characters in the Roger Zelazny books. The other group will be in an entirely original universe, where the structure  of Pattern and Chaos is similar, but not connected in the least with Dworkin's Amber."

Happily, the whole thing worked out wonderfully well. The characters were interesting and complex, and the players definitely carried some grudges from the auctions, in a way that made for really interesting rivalries. Those with access to some of the early Amberzines can see for themselves in Don Woodward's 'Carolan' character diary.

In recent years, I've suggested that people read about the game theory exercise called "The Dollar Auction," based on John von Neuman's work, and described beautifully in the Willam Poundstone book, "Prisoner's Dilemma."

Here is an on-line excerpt:

http://www.heretical.com/pound/dollar.html

Thanks!

Erick

[cnath.rm]

In recent years, I've suggested that people read about the game theory exercise called "The Dollar Auction," based on John von Neuman's work, and described beautifully in the Willam Poundstone book, "Prisoner's Dilemma."

Here is an on-line excerpt:

http://www.heretical.com/pound/dollar.html

Thanks!

Erick

That is some wild reading, and now I'm wishing I had picked up a copy of the book when I was working in a college bookstore. I am very tempted to try auctioning off the single I have in my pocket r/now.