I'm curious about the range of shape shifting and how it is divided into 4 classes for effects.
Anyone bought and read the supplement already?
I'd be interested in a review too.
The idea that a shape might take control over the shapeshifter seems highly alluring.
I can't offer an unbiased review, but I'm happy to answer questions.
Quote from: Jason D;891170I can't offer an unbiased review, but I'm happy to answer questions.
1st of all: thank you, Jason, for LoGS. It's one of my most favorite games, one of seldom I was more than happy to buy, run and play.
A question, if I may: it is stated on FB, that the more powerful shape might take over the mind of a shapeshifter, especially if the shape is of a (usually) more powerful entity.
Does the same rule apply for inferior shapes? I mean, is there a risk of becoming an animal if one wears its skin too often?
And one more: how does Shapeshifting and Eidolon Mastery come along? The former seems like an offspring of Umbra, so a conflict might be expected.
Quote from: JesterRaiin;8911721st of all: thank you, Jason, for LoGS. It's one of my most favorite games, one of seldom I was more than happy to buy, run and play.
Thanks for the kind words!
Quote from: JesterRaiin;891172A question, if I may: it is stated on FB, that the more powerful shape might take over the mind of a shapeshifter, especially if the shape is of a (usually) more powerful entity.
Does the same rule apply for inferior shapes? I mean, is there a risk of becoming an animal if one wears its skin too often?
Not so much, unless the shapeshifter's Psyche is very, very low (like below Paragon). That said, there's always the potential that it skews their way of thinking.
Quote from: JesterRaiin;891172And one more: how does Shapeshifting and Eidolon Mastery come along? The former seems like an offspring of Umbra, so a conflict might be expected.
Here's a quote from the section
Shape Shifting and the Other Powers:
QuoteEidolon Mastery: The rigid discipline of the Eidolon is almost antithetical to the focus of the Shape Shifting ability, and as a result, the powers may be at odds. A character with both of these powers will be pulled in opposite directions, between rigid order and between fluid adaptability. For any but Advanced Shape Shifters, using Eidolon and Shape Shifting at the same time might prove difficult, with the Eidolon enforcing a single archetypal idealized form upon the Shape Shifter's body rather than allowing for flexible transformation. In a more positive fashion, the Eidolon might be used to rid the Shape Shifter of any negative conditions incurred by out-of-control Shape Shifting, allowing a quick (or even immediate) return to the pristine "basic" form.
There's more in the section on possible power rejection, but it's addressed.
Quote from: Jason D;891232There's more in the section on possible power rejection, but it's addressed.
Thanks for the explanations. This satiates my curiosity. :)
Shape-shifting was the one thing I missed most in the core LoG&S.
//Panjumanju
We're right now discussing a means of getting all of the Advanced powers into players' hands, as well as expanding the list to include a revision of Sorcery.
Quote from: Jason D;892429We're right now discussing a means of getting all of the Advanced powers into players' hands, as well as expanding the list to include a revision of Sorcery.
Sorcery? Any details concerning those "revisions"? ;)
btw, any chance for a more detailed Domain generator? I think the way it's presented in corebook leaves much to be desired - it's ok to create a skeletal world, enough to serve as what I like to call "a quick trip to Bahamas and back", but past that it's pretty much a wild territory.
Pardon me if it was covered in some additional sourcebook already, but I didn't hear about that.
Spoiler
This might be a good place to remind about a small world generator (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=34248) I made for this specific purpose. :D
I was trying to keep LoG&S as compatible with Amber as possible, based on patron and publisher feedback, so Sorcery was presented warts-and-all as it appeared prior.
However, I've long been dissatisfied with it, and think it should work in accordance with the other powers, in a fashion that doesn't cause such consternation for GMs and require such meticulous bookkeeping (and simultaneous hand-waving) for players.
Quote from: JesterRaiin;892441btw, any chance for a more detailed Domain generator?
There's always a chance, but it's not something I've given a lot of thought to, to be honest.
Quote from: Jason D;892666However, I've long been dissatisfied with it, and think it should work in accordance with the other powers, in a fashion that doesn't cause such consternation for GMs and require such meticulous bookkeeping (and simultaneous hand-waving) for players.
Intriguing... Vague, but intriguing.
Quote from: Jason D;892666There's always a chance, but it's not something I've given a lot of thought to, to be honest.
Well, many-worlds setting is always at risk of becoming
many-dull-underdeveloped-worlds-copies-of-themselves-really. I think that Logs could use some clever, original pattern, a set of detailed worldgenerating guidelines, or a well done instruction along the lines of "how to introduce famous settings like Warhammer's Old World, or Westeros as one of LoGS' world".
Quote from: JesterRaiin;892673Intriguing... Vague, but intriguing.
Unintentionally vague, and I apologize for that.
I've always just disliked the whole ADRP micro-spell/lynchpin thing. It's maddeningly difficult to actually built a new spell from whole cloth, and the issues of what lynchpins are needed puts the whole Sorcery system into this weird high-crunch, low-specifics place, where there's the semblance of a bunch of specific systems and requirements, but there's no real support for it once you start to actually look.
My thoughts would be to come up with a system where Sorcery works like the other powers, lower bookkeeping and more
Quote from: JesterRaiin;892673Well, many-worlds setting is always at risk of becoming many-dull-underdeveloped-worlds-copies-of-themselves-really. I think that Logs could use some clever, original pattern, a set of detailed worldgenerating guidelines, or a well done instruction along the lines of "how to introduce famous settings like Warhammer's Old World, or Westeros as one of LoGS' world".
True, true. My goal had been to include more on creating and running Gossamer Worlds in the core rulebook, but I didn't manage to get that into what was an already oversized book.
Wouldn't a lot of what Sorcery does be covered by Enchantment?
Quote from: Jason D;893280I've always just disliked the whole ADRP micro-spell/lynchpin thing. It's maddeningly difficult to actually built a new spell from whole cloth, and the issues of what lynchpins are needed puts the whole Sorcery system into this weird high-crunch, low-specifics place, where there's the semblance of a bunch of specific systems and requirements, but there's no real support for it once you start to actually look.
The problem with Sorcery is that it was developed at a time when Merlin was the only published character who used any source of power not based on the Logrus or the Pattern.
Once all the books and short stories were done, it was very clear that every sorceror (Mandor, Luke, Julia, the Tower) had a unique style of Sorcery that looked and operated differently. Merlin's Sorcery looks the way it does because he's a computer programmer.
Treating linchpins, microspells and all the details of Merlin's Sorcery as cosmetic trappings of a magic system that allows manipulation of Shadow in a more abstract manner is probably the way to go.
Quote from: Jason D;892666However, I've long been dissatisfied with it, and think it should work in accordance with the other powers, in a fashion that doesn't cause such consternation for GMs and require such meticulous bookkeeping (and simultaneous hand-waving) for players.
Quote from: Jason D;893280I've always just disliked the whole ADRP micro-spell/lynchpin thing. It's maddeningly difficult to actually built a new spell from whole cloth, and the issues of what lynchpins are needed puts the whole Sorcery system into this weird high-crunch, low-specifics place, where there's the semblance of a bunch of specific systems and requirements, but there's no real support for it once you start to actually look.
My thoughts would be to come up with a system where Sorcery works like the other powers, lower bookkeeping and more.
Actually that is something I have felt myself, being frustrated with Sorcery as shown on both Amber and LoG&S. It is overly complex, tedious, and time consuming while all around not being very fun to use. Lynchpins, microspells, and other details increasing the time it takes to cast a spell even with racking while so severely limiting the number of spells prepared and how/where you can use it.
It feels like you have to unfairly jump through hoops just to use Sorcery while other powers are can get away with being less complex and easier to use yet also being more powerful... Because of this I am very glad to hear that you will be making an expansion/revision to Sorcery. I hope it leads to being a more fun power, or series of powers.
Yes, no, maybe...
Microspells and all that are usually a PITA. OTOH there's some crunchy fun to be had in making up new spells.
There's some satisfaction in cleverly having hung the right spells for an uncertain future, and some drama in being wrong.
Sorcery is such a big box of tricks that the limits -- 12 spells, time hanging and racking them and casting time for versatile ones --
barely brings the bang for the points down to 17 points. 17 points is that many Cantrips, not quite Invocation (much of which is slow, slow to use, and rightly so), over half of Wrighting, etc., and it works in combat time.
17 points is about right... if you ignore multiple racks and inter-world teleports to fast time worlds. Bought as items, that's a Deadly ranged weapon with N&N Alternate forms (lightning, fire, force...; might need Stamina too), Conferred Invulnerable Damage Resistance (maybe more than once, since you can use it on others), Conferred Instant (8 point?) Search Through Worlds, Conferred Instant Mold Gossamer Reality, Conferred Limited Extraordinary Psychic Sense.... 58 points+ and counting.
But if you increase the cost or lower the versatility people will whine.
Quote from: GreyScholar;895057Actually that is something I have felt myself, being frustrated with Sorcery as shown on both Amber and LoG&S. It is overly complex, tedious, and time consuming while all around not being very fun to use. Lynchpins, microspells, and other details increasing the time it takes to cast a spell even with racking while so severely limiting the number of spells prepared and how/where you can use it.
It feels like you have to unfairly jump through hoops just to use Sorcery while other powers are can get away with being less complex and easier to use yet also being more powerful... Because of this I am very glad to hear that you will be making an expansion/revision to Sorcery. I hope it leads to being a more fun power, or series of powers.