Well here's the deal. I've played Amber on and off since 2001, not nearly enough for my tastes but we completed two long running campaigns with our current group.
However, I've never touched trump. I'm not the best at indirect powers and behaviour (yeah, how my characters survived those campaigns is a mystery) but I should stop trying to dodge the bullet and do it. So for the latest campaign, I've gotten my character Advanced Trump Artistry.
What I'm wondering is if anyone has any tips, helpful advice, or even anecdotes involving trump artistry. They'd be much appreciated so I don't bumble around looking foolish, since I find trump artistry as a power hard to wrap my head around.
In case anyone's curious, the character's preliminary sheet can be found at http://enichan.darksiren.net/vanhelsing.txt.
You may wish to sort through these articles.
skyseastone.net (http://www.google.com/search?num=20&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&as_qdr=all&q=trump+site%3Awww.skyseastone.net&btnG=Search)
Comments from several authors about Trump mechanics, tricks, play style and helpful tips from GMs.
Starting w/Advanced Trump?
If you've played a character w/Trump before, this will be helpful.
If not, I'd suggest to start off w/beginning level trump, learn the nuances of it at lower levels, if you are really fired up for advanced, keep those extra 20 pts. to the side as good stuff, and put it as 1st on your wish list for advanced, that way you build it into your char.'s storyline in game play.
Kinda like starting w/a bazooka if you don't learn how to fire a gun 1st.
with all those good pts. and a devotee, you may find just the right teacher in game play to help you.
I wouldn't rely on Trump as a sole power. If you don't ahve a more direct method of moving through Shadow then I'd recommend picking up Patter soon.
With basic Trump as a sole power source you should always have a reserve card or two hidden somewhere. With the mental Trump powers of advance Trump you don't need to worry so much.
I had a character who carried a "Trump Armoury", a Trump card depicting a wall of weapons suitable for all occasions. You can enter anywhere effectively unarmed and still be able to equip yourself rapidly.
Trump is useful for entering places which other powers find more difficult. You can create a Trump of a sealed room and then turn out the lights. Your Trump will still access he place but Pattern will find it difficult.
Trump traps are endlessly entertaining. Favourite uses include the instant activation Trump (just throw at enemies and watch them disappear) and the feedback loop Trump (subject to GM approval, but essentially a Trump which locks the user into an unending psychic loop, possibly by having the user himself as the subject of the Trump).
I'll see if I can remember any more.
Not really sure there's much sense in holding off on Advanced until later. After all, normal trump artistry just let's you make trumps. Regular trump use I've obviously already done.
The trump armory I suppose is a good idea. Amassing what's needed might be hard though, without pattern imprint?
Can you really use an instant activation trump trap by throwing it at the enemy, making them disappear as soon as they're hit? That sounds... kind of abusive and I can't imagine the GM would be too happy if I abused that trick. Maybe that's just me though.
Either way, thanks for the tips! They're rather helpful.
Quote from: EnikoCan you really use an instant activation trump trap by throwing it at the enemy, making them disappear as soon as they're hit? That sounds... kind of abusive and I can't imagine the GM would be too happy if I abused that trick. Maybe that's just me though.
It's not a given and it does depend entirely on the GM.
It plays on the Trump trap idea and the notion that certain Trumps might be easier to activate.
You can also rework it as a varient on the Trump gate, but using the card itself as a focus for the gate, activating it yourself and then throwing the gate at someone. Something like the Phantom Zone in Superman/Smallville.
I've just thought of another trump idea - PokeTrump! Create Trumps of several vicious beasts which you can then sumon to your aid as required.
Poke'Trump?
been there, done that - have a Chaos Lord based on it, Poke'master Lord Ash (yeah, it's a big bite from the show, but he IS a fire-elementalist.) Poke'Trumps do work out really well.
Eniko...
you said you've done base Trump before?
Quote:
The trump armory I suppose is a good idea. Amassing what's needed might be hard though, without pattern imprint?
Ummmm, amassing?
You simply draw them onto the card/medium you're working with, spend the time to make it an arsenal (horde) of deadly damage weapons, with whatever extra power needed, and you have it. No need to go looking for it.
And the good stuff of saving the 'Advanced' part of Trump is
1) to play in game play "getting/learning" the advanced power
2) having that good stuff held in reserve until 1st advancement list comes around can reflect upon the level of teacher you may have to impart all those cool tricks that you just might learn in game play once you go from basic to advanced.
I would hope your GM would run you through some of that rather than just telling you; "OK, you now have Advanced level"
man, that would be lame...
So, the advise is to allow the Amber story-teller to help your character grow, experience is much better than just 'having'.
Simone'?
Quote from: gabriel_ss4uUmmmm, amassing?
You simply draw them onto the card/medium you're working with, spend the time to make it an arsenal (horde) of deadly damage weapons, with whatever extra power needed, and you have it. No need to go looking for it.
Disagred.
Trumps need a subject. If you draw a trump of a sword, you need the sword. The same goes with the armory. They come from somewhere.
I could allow trump creation of items (create a picture out of your imagination, draw something from it without having ever seen the subject), but only at advanced or exalted levels.
Allowing this is like using basic trump to create the picture of a shadow one has never visited, and trump to it.
We differ than on the use of trump for that.
We use a rotating GM, and I'm taking first shift ( which means I get to make most of the cosmology up :P ). so, I can answer on the trump arsenal thing.
I suppsoe it's possible to make trump of thigns based on a description so to peak, but that's el than 100% reliable, so she'd be best served by finding an armory out in shadow, making it, etc, then making a trump of the location. After all, if you make a trump of an arsenal you didn't personally assemble, even if it works, that means you just trumped some one ELSE's arsenal... just imagine what might happen if Benedict finds out that you nicked part of his personal weapons collection, to use a somewhat extreme example :>
I would say you can draw trumps of stuff you have never seen if you have advanced trump and Conjuration. You are effectively Conjuring stuff through the use of trump and so they would take time as per conjuration but be more real (I like trump as a distinct power as opposed to a manifestation of Logrus or Pattern).
I can see no reason why you can't used advanced trump to draw trumps of shadows you have made up. It's no different to pattern walking to a place you have never been.
I think you can extend that logic to allow the creation of trump pockets which are in effect living trump paintings which exist outside the Pattern/Logrus cosmos. This idea is used in the non-cannonical, but interesting, Seven No Trump.
More interesting than the creation of trumps to conjure stuff, after all you could do that with simple conjuration and sorcery if you gave it some thought. Would be the use of trump for more esoteric purposes. It is possible to see advanced trump used to scan surface thoughts of the trump subject, locate and track others through shadow, even possibly at a stretch use it to 'encourage' the universe to take certain actions. By the latter I mean that trump does seem to have some predictive quality, Corwin does readings to get a handle on the future, so perhaps an uber advanced trump master could even use Trump to cause future events, a bugger to DM but a great plot device.
I do have a pet theory espoused here in the past, that Trump is the only true power and that the Pattern and the Logrus are just abstract trumps of the universe drawn in competing styles.
On the subject of using trump for a new character for the first time, I feel trump is the most subtle of the powers and you need to do a fair bit of thinking about how best to implement it. However, this doesn't mean that you shouldn't start with advanced after all the DM will decide what your universe is like, but be careful, one of the most embarassing thing that can happen in any RPG, but especially Amber, is when the guy who has spent all their points on one uber tough power or skill gets their arse handed to them by the 1st level hobbit armed only with a butter knife, a ready wit and a huge imagination. So if you are going to play any advanced power in Amber make sure you understand it as least as well as the DM and a lot better than anyone else.
Quote from: jibbajibbaSo if you are going to play any advanced power in Amber make sure you understand it as least as well as the DM...
How is this possible?
Unless you have a GM who's willing to hand you the keys to the kingdom, I don't see how that can work. The "rules" for advanced powers are very sketchy and usually dependent upon the GM's personal take on the cosmic forces.
Hence it is incalculably imminent that your gaming group mesh, jibbajibba... we park our cars in the same garage.
Dude, You're echoing my thoughts...
We learned under the same Trump Master
Meet me in the Chaos Threads.
The joy of a great GM is evolution of character, and I loved climbing the Double Hellixx to higher enlightenment.
and some say the Oracle Stones are like the writings on the wall.
Trump
See ya over a pint
Quote from: jibbajibbaI would say you can draw trumps of stuff you have never seen if you have advanced trump and Conjuration. You are effectively Conjuring stuff through the use of trump and so they would take time as per conjuration but be more real (I like trump as a distinct power as opposed to a manifestation of Logrus or Pattern).
I can see no reason why you can't used advanced trump to draw trumps of shadows you have made up. It's no different to pattern walking to a place you have never been.
I think you can extend that logic to allow the creation of trump pockets which are in effect living trump paintings which exist outside the Pattern/Logrus cosmos. This idea is used in the non-cannonical, but interesting, Seven No Trump.
Exactly. For me, these are good uses of advanced/exalted trumps, not basic trump ability.
But, then, if another way works for someone else, fine by him! ;)
Quote from: OthaHow is this possible?
Unless you have a GM who's willing to hand you the keys to the kingdom, I don't see how that can work. The "rules" for advanced powers are very sketchy and usually dependent upon the GM's personal take on the cosmic forces.
Hence a co-GM, one that shares the skills of weaving the spell."
I've consulted the Trumps, the future is set."
Princess Candice du Barimen of Amber
Daughter of Sand
and if you don't see how that can work, I think Yoda said it best: "That is why you fail."
Quote from: OthaHow is this possible?
Unless you have a GM who's willing to hand you the keys to the kingdom, I don't see how that can work. The "rules" for advanced powers are very sketchy and usually dependent upon the GM's personal take on the cosmic forces.
If I play an advanced power in an Amber game I have a conversation with the DM, we determine the basis of how the power works. Yes there may be things I can not do because someone else has more in the power than I do but we argee on the power's fundamental process. Amber is a construction of multiple imaginations and as I am sure you, of all people, would agree the DMs opinion is just once voice in the many voices. The important thing is that you get the basics decided up front.
:ditto:
Yeah. And, for that matter, you learn the basics before you get the advanced version -- I never let starting characters buy Advanced powers unless the players themselves have paid their dues in other campaigns... and even then, they have to convince me to let them.
Hm. Sounds like you let your friends have opportunities (even if it's just opportunities to convince you) you don't give to others.
Remember Otha...
It's not what you know...
it's who you drink with...
:toast:
don't be a hater!
Personally, speaking as a GM, advanced powers and exalted powers will function differently from campaign to campaign, depending largely on the emphasis of the auction and the theme of the game. If your character is the only one with advanced trump, I would be more likely to make it more full of awesome... (it's not the most popular power to begin with, at least it hasn't been for my players).
I like to think of advanced and exalted powers as 'the potential of [insert attribute]'. If you're the only one with an advanced power, you are likely to find a use that will put you on the map (like an expert, the way Benedict is a weapon/strategy expert). Results may vary based on the GM/setting/power itself.
As a trump artist, you can really push the enveloppe and test your GM's boundaries when it comes to Power rules. If there is a general understanding to be had of what the power can and cannot do, then you know exactly where you stand as a player with said power.
If not, be as creative as possible.
Creative players make things happen in the game. As a GM, I tend to reward that.
More to the point, Eniko, try the following: have your character offer to tell their fortune via trump, have the GM tell you what comes up in the reading, use that information, manipulate the 'results' to suit your need. You could essentially 'reinterpret' the outcome to suit your needs. With a bit of practice, you can tell which cards are which by touching their backs etc, make things appear a certain way to the other PCs or even NPCs by making certain cards come up...
Influence how and when your card appears in other people's readings by concentrating on your own trump and things like that...
Spy on trump... A lot! Especially if your character is stumped when it comes to a certain part of the plot.
Combine the power of trump with your other powers. Conjuration was mentionned. Try to pick up sorcery and come up with crazy items that use trump power to power sorcerous lynchpins and spells etc... Make trump that blow up when activated etc...
Leave trump traps everywhere. Other PCs (and even NPCs, depending on your game and your GM) can't resist trying a mysterious trump.
If you like the trapped PC, 'save them' from certain doom. If you don't, keep them there until they can be useful or disposed of.
It'll probably be a nice break for your GM to deal with a trump artist for once. It's a nice break from the usual pattern imprint, you know what I mean? So, have fun with it!
:ditto:
yeah, I agree
reach into the depths of your imagination.... how do you want your effects to come off?
I had a Trump artist that (one of my players) that learned from Martin, and he went with the 'urban' factor, his trumps were akin to graffiti tags and were posted everywhere in Texorami.
spray cans and shoe ink-brushes.
a trump to a fast-time shadow/room where you can accomplish quick trumps is helpful too.