Elder Trump Deck - What's in it Cannonly?

[charis]

So I came across this quote from Book 1 the other day:

And some nights I dwelled upon the playing cards. The missing Trumps had been restored to the pack I held. One of them was a portrait of Amber itself, and I knew it could bear me back into the city. The others were those of our dead or missing relatives. And one was Dad’s, and I skipped it over quickly.
He was gone.

And I was curious what Trumps you've placed in your Standard Elder Trump deck for your games. Do you charge a cost for having an Elder Trump deck at character creation? If so, how much?

We've gone with all the Elders minus Sand and Delwin; Oberon and Dworkin; Amber City/Great Hall and Top of the steps to Rebma in most of our games, but might be switching things up in the future!

[finarvyn]

Keep in mind that there really isn't anything such as a "standard" Trump deck in Zelazny's Amber series. It's not like the cards are all mass-produced or anything like that, but instead are hand crafted individually. As such, different decks are bound to have different cards.

Having said that, it can be assumed that a "standard" deck might include a card for Amber Castle, one for Oberon, and one each of the standard sons and daughters of Oberon. (So, not one of Dalt, for example, since he was an unknown most of the time.) From there, each deck would probably differ.

We've gone with all the Elders minus Sand and Delwin; Oberon and Dworkin; Amber City/Great Hall and Top of the steps to Rebma in most of our games, but might be switching things up in the future!

This is pretty much what I do as well. It's a reasonable list.

[jibbajibba]

There are some obviously logistical issues with the Trumps in Canon.

i) The deck seems to have been produced at a moment in time when all the princes were mature. This would imply that there was a period of time before Random was born say in which there was no trump deck and yet Osric and Finndo appear to be in the deck which would imply that they were far better known to Eric/Corwin etc than would previously have been the case. Even if the princes were all born in a very narrow time window, which is unlikely, then Corwin woudl still have known Finndo for 10- 30 years......

ii) The cards are the same so we can deduce that there was some sort of mass production. It is possible that each deck was hand drawn by Dworkin but its hard to imagine Dworkin producing two things that were identical. Its just not in his idiom.

iii) There are spare decks in the library so we can assume they are not regarded as 'precious' the case isn't even locked. Yet Amberites can not pull them out of shadow. Flora's deck was imcomplete and she obviously lacked the means to replace the cards. Surely if that were the case then spare decks woudl be a very highly priced item and any spare decks would be under lock and key.

Now I get round these odditiies by saying that a trump is produced of an Amberite on the occassion of their traversing the Pattern. The new card appears magically in the Library in the trump case. This would mean that it times in the past the trumps were added piecemeal and the deck at the time of Corwin's maturity would be different to the one when Random assailed the pattern.

Interestingly in my current wiki game two characters (and NPC and a PC) got together to produce a second trump deck for Amber's military. It has a selection of Military commanders from the navy, City Guard, Amber Palace Guard as well as a number of princes with recognised military positions. This was generated as a personal trump deck in Horde quantity.

[AshenHaze]

I seem to remember Random saying that Dworkin gave him the trump deck when he walked the pattern.  It was when he asked Dworkin if they would work everywhere and he said something like "They'll work in any state you'll ever find yourself in."  So it would seem to me like Dworkin drew them, perhaps right before you traversed the pattern, and then had some ability to create copies.

[weilide]

I seem to remember Random saying that Dworkin gave him the trump deck when he walked the pattern.  It was when he asked Dworkin if they would work everywhere and he said something like "They'll work in any state you'll ever find yourself in."  So it would seem to me like Dworkin drew them, perhaps right before you traversed the pattern, and then had some ability to create copies.

Here's the full quote:

"You never forget the day you come of age and walk the Pattern," he said. "I remember it as though it were last year. When I had succeeded—all flushed with excitement, with glory—Dworkin presented me with my first set of Trumps and instructed me in their use. I distinctly recall asking him whether they worked everywhere. And I remember his answer: 'No,' he said. 'But they should serve in any place you will ever be.' He never much liked me, you know."

"But did you ask him what be meant by that?"

"Yes, and he said, 'I doubt that you will ever achieve a state where they will fail to serve you. Why don't you run along now?' And I did. I was anxious to go play with the Trumps all by myself."

[Malleus Aforethought]

Here's the full quote:
"I remember it as though it were last year. When I had succeeded—all flushed with excitement, with glory—Dworkin presented me with my first set of Trumps and instructed me in their use.

You could extrapolate from Random's statement that Dworkin presented them with additional Trumps over time. Most likely as additional children assayed the Pattern and survived.

If you go with a one of the higher end Trump Qualities/Powers (I use a 16-point cost for a Trump-powered item-contains a horde of images and can be expanded) and a multiplier, it's pretty straight-forward to create a deck from a one-time investment that Dworkin could easily manage as the family expanded.

[RPGPundit]

I would say that as living works of art the Trump decks' content depends on when they were produced. There might be some really old trumps out there that wouldn't even have the youngest elders, maybe some made by Dworkin or Brande in the time when Random was not yet an adult.  So they won't have random but they might have delwin and sand.  Some really old ones will have Osric and Finndo.

Then there will be some of the more standard trumps from the Eric Interregnum period where delwin and sand will already be gone, and even Corwin might be missing from the deck.

later trumps will include cards for martin and merlin.

RPGPundit