The more I read here the more I think my group might say no to the Amber system. I'll try, but it's alien to what they're used to by lightyears. I'll definitely run the game over at rpol if I like the system.
Given that though, I'd like to do some adventuring in the Amber universe. Does anyone know of any other systems that someone has modified for Amber? I may try to slip the Amber cosmology into a D&D campaign (I know, sacrilege). but if someone out there has taken the time to convert it to something I'd love to see it. Failing that, anybody know of systems they think would work well?
If you search the web you might find Amber in some of these systems:
* d20
* Unisystem
* Nobilis (Links were on the old GoO boards, which I belive is gone now :( )
* GURPS (Steve Jackson message boards)
* Fudge (Fred Hicks = Iago)
I can search my hard drive; at one point I may have saved some of these but I didn't like any as well as Erick's basic model. I know I have seen all of these at one time or another, but sometimes they vanish suddenly.
Let me also mention that I wasn't sure I could pull Amber off at all until I actually played in a game run by Erick. The Amber system looks so simple, but getting a proper feel for its interactions was hard for me until I actually got to see the system in action. You might look for a local game group or convention running the game to give it a look before you try to run it yourself. Just a thought.
Search also 'Everway' and House of Cards campaign.
Thanks!
Nine Worlds has been suggested, but the designer of the game has said some things things which might be seen as derogatory and/or patronizing toward ADRPG fans, which prompted a backlash (including Pundit calling him names)...
Heaven forfend.
Everway is the other most natural choice for running an Amber game, IMO.
RPGpundit
If I remember correctly, when Guardians of Order created BESM it was with running Amber in mind. The first edition in particular is quite Amber-friendly in the way one can run a campaign, and I had a nifty conversion of Amber to BESM worked out at one point. I'll have to look for it if there is interest....
I've got one of their BESM systems but haven't read it. I got it at a con in a three pack and it was the only other GoO book I could find at their stand. Does it work the same as Silver Age Sentinels?
Quote from: James McMurrayI've got one of their BESM systems but haven't read it. I got it at a con in a three pack and it was the only other GoO book I could find at their stand. Does it work the same as Silver Age Sentinels?
Yeah, the only differences are in the number of points characters get, # number of sides on the dice you use, and ultimately the target numbers.
Much as I love the ADRPG (i've probably read the book 15 or more times completely through and have run several games with it), if I was running Amber today, I'd without hesitation be using Classic Unisystem. It's nearly diceless and the magic system works well with the abilities of Amberites. What would need writing would be the setting specific abilities: Pattern, Trump, & Logrus. And offhand, I think I'd do all 3 in the same method as Armageddon's Primal Powers; the character would purchase a 10-point Quality called Blood of Amber (or Blood of Chaos), and individual powers, and have a skill that determines how effective the character can be using them.
Quote from: RPGPunditEverway is the other most natural choice for running an Amber game, IMO.
:forge:
You do realize that Everway is one of the foundation games of Forge theory, right? It's used as an example for the Fortune/Karma/Drama choices for conflict resolution.
I admire your taste.
Quote from: finarvynIf I remember correctly, when Guardians of Order created BESM it was with running Amber in mind.
This would REALLY surprise me. I thought it was designed for running anime-style games.
Quote from: Otha:forge:
You do realize that Everway is one of the foundation games of Forge theory, right? It's used as an example for the Fortune/Karma/Drama choices for conflict resolution.
I admire your taste.
Yes, and Led Zeppelin was a major influence for modern Death Metal.
That doesn't mean that Led Zeppelin stops being awesome, and that Death Metal is suddenly something other than utter shit.
Likewise, Jack Kerouac has been the "influence" for thousands of idiots throughout the last fifty years. They all still suck, he doesn't.
Shall I go on? Nietzsche was a major philosophical influence on the Nazi movement. Doesn't mean Nietzsche wasn't brilliant and the Nazis weren't a gang of evil fuckers out to grind a boot to the face of humanity forever.
Are you getting my drift here, bucko?
RPGPundit
Quote from: OthaThis would REALLY surprise me. I thought it was designed for running anime-style games.
Well, consider yourself surprised. Mark is an Amber FANATIC, and his tri-stat system was directly thought up in the context of Amber. He even includes the same "final advice" to players that you see in Amber, taken almost verbatim from the Amber book. There's a reason Erick trusted him enough to offer him Amber.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPunditWell, consider yourself surprised. Mark is an Amber FANATIC
Guardians of Order was a originally the name of a group in his Amber campaign.
Quote from: NicephorusGuardians of Order was a originally the name of a group in his Amber campaign.
Yup. I don't have BeSM with me, but his SaS D20 version has a "moving beyond D20" section that is a direct copy of Erick's "Ultimate Amber Roleplaying" advice. If I recall correctly, BeSM and Tri-stat SaS had this too.
RPGPundit
You're talkin about Tri-Stat BESM? Body, Mind and Soul for Amber? Mmm. Who would have the higher Body? Gerard, Benedict or Corwin? It just doesn't seem to fit for me. I could give it a shot with True20, though. It's as easy a system as it gets, and although I dislike the damage system, the fatiguing magic idea seems to fit. It would be easy to translate the powers. Trumps would be as Mind-Touch, with the difficulties reduced, and shapeshifting should have a Fortitude ST instead of will... and you are pretty much ready to go. Logrus would be a little more difficult, but surely could be worked out, if I felt like thinking. Some Ars Magica-like magic system could work, too.
Quote from: SunBoyYou're talkin about Tri-Stat BESM? Body, Mind and Soul for Amber?
Incidentally, a Finnish RPG called
Hiljaisuuden Vangit (diceless and published in '97) uses those attributes, but conceals them completely from the group along with all the other mechanics. The "surveillance reports" filled in by the players ("the Dissidents") during chargen are converted into actual character sheets by the GM ("the Authority") and never shown to anyone else: in this way, one of them might know that her PC graduated from the University of Helsinki with a degree in Theology (since that's written down on the report), but she wouldn't necessarily have any idea what her Mind stat is, or even that it exists.
Sounds cool.
Yes it does. But still doesn't seem to fit in Amber.
I could see Amber without people knowing their exact ranks, although you'd still have a general idea, especially about things like how quickly a certain super-swordsman would make a pie out of your balls. You'd have to totally do away with or majorly revamp the auction of course.
No, not at all. Actually, in the original book, when you do the advancements, you don't know the results. So, after a few sessions, if you invested points on attributes (or Advanced Powers), you just don't know. Of course, that doesn't applies to char gen, but the auction is just so cool...
Ah cool. Again, my not having read the main book yet is showing. :)
Yes, this is another great part of the Amber game: after the first advancement, you know what your ranks are, but you don't know what that means in terms of point investment, or what anyone else's ranks are anymore. It means you don't really look at your stats even, to judge where you're at in the game. You look at what you do.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPunditEverway is the other most natural choice for running an Amber game, IMO.
I totally, completely agree, here.
Quote from: RPGPundit...after the first advancement, you know what your ranks are, but you don't know what that means in terms of point investment, or what anyone else's ranks are anymore.
Two points:
First, unless a LOT of points are being awarded for advancement, you know what the rank numbers are and you know what rungs the other players COULD have advanced to, so you may not know for certain but you probably have a good idea, until several advancements have been made.
Second, why should players have to wait through weeks or months of play for this to happen? I say that uncertainty about what the other players have should be introduced right from the beginning. Not only that, even the GM should be unclear about exactly who has what.
Quote from: OthaTwo points:
First, unless a LOT of points are being awarded for advancement, you know what the rank numbers are and you know what rungs the other players COULD have advanced to, so you may not know for certain but you probably have a good idea, until several advancements have been made.
Second, why should players have to wait through weeks or months of play for this to happen? I say that uncertainty about what the other players have should be introduced right from the beginning.
Why? Do you have no idea if you could beat your brother in a chess game?
Do you IRL not have a fucking clue about the abilities and weaknesses of the kids you went to school with? OR did you have a pretty clear idea that one of them was more athletic than you, possibly even that one was the best athlete in the class; that one was the smartest at math, that one was the toughest, etc. etc?
The Auction system as it exists is perfect for reflecting a group that has pre-existing family connections. Everyone knows where people really stand out, have an idea about most other things, but have a few things kept hidden from them. And there can always be one or two family members you know nothing about.
QuoteNot only that, even the GM should be unclear about exactly who has what.
Now this is just frankly moronic.
RPGPundit
Isn't that a little hard to do when they're auctioning off ranks right in front of each other?
For me, advancement rate has always been a function of rate of play.
When I have a group that gets together weekly, I tend to slow the advancement down and let the game develop more slowly. When I have a group that gets together infrequently, I tend to speed up the process in order to keep the game fresh. I know this almost seems backwards, but it works well for me.
Quote from: Otha...even the GM should be unclear about exactly who has what.
:confused: I'll admit that I'm mystified by this comment.
Why are you mystified?
Do you wonder why that's a good thing, or do you wonder how it's possible?
From my mystified chair it's a little of both, with a mingle why? thrown in for good measure.
How it's possible:
It is. Watch this space for how, I'll be posting within a few months. The short answer is: each participant (player and GM) negotiates small pieces of character with each other participant. Each person has partial knowledge of each other PC with whom he has worked. Unlike the auction, failure to participate in the system is a disadvantage rather than an advantage.
Why it's desirable:
When the GM doesn't know precisely what each player is capable of, he is forced to play each conflict "straight"... that is, he can't warp it to make what HE wants happen every time. It's impossible to railroad, impossible to browbeat and dominate.
Now that's really, really dumb. I'm sorry, I've tried to refrain from using harsh language, but that's just plain silly (I feel dirty now...)
Please, use harsh language, Otha's idea deserves it: its fucking retarded.
RPGPundit
How do you resolve a conflict if nobody knows what the other people have? And as soon as you reveal it to know, why isn't the mystery of who has what gone?
Quote from: OthaWhen the GM doesn't know precisely what each player is capable of, he is forced to play each conflict "straight"... that is, he can't warp it to make what HE wants happen every time. It's impossible to railroad, impossible to browbeat and dominate.
1. If a GM ever tries to railroad, browbeat, and dominate, my advice is to walk away from his game and never return. This has no bearing on dice or diceless, ADRP or modified, or whatever. It's just common sense and politeness. I've played in campigns where the GM was a dick and all of the players quit on him so fast it made his head spin.
2. As a GM, the
only way I can play it "straight" is if I know everything. If I don't know about it, it doesn't exist. A GM has to be fair or his players will go away.
Sounds like what you have is a wonderful storytelling game where a group of friends sit around telling a story. It's not a traditional RPG, which assumes one person running an adventure for the players to discover.
I tried something like this once and the players all wanted to kill themselves, they got so bored. There was no real plot becasue each player had their own ideas as to where the story should go. Everyone wandered around aimlessly for a while until they were begging me to run a regular game again. It made me feel appreciated as a GM, but it wasn't an experience I ever care to inflict on my players ever again. :eek:
Quote from: finarvynIt's not a traditional RPG, which assumes one person running an adventure for the players to discover.
No, it's not traditional, but with the right preparation and people willing to participate it's not boring.
But I have a Vorpal sword!! You didn't know it because you're some rare kind of stupid GM!!! Really!!! It says it right here in my character sheet, which I won't allow you to see because you're the enemy. MWAHAHAHA!!!
That's just so sad. And by Pundit's request: shitpissfuckcuntcocksuckermotherfuckertitsfartturdandtwat.