ADRPG Consruct confusion

[tcabril]

I know in Shadowknight it is clear that Constructs can be anything (a blue crystal cave; a computer; a tombstone; a banana grove...); and can be powered by whatever powers the creater has (i.e. Trump, Pattern, Logrus, Sorcery...) and can either have or have not a manifestation.

What is noticeably missing is what Constructs do.  I take it to mean that a construct can do whatever the creator can imagine but I am not sure.

The examples in the book don't clear the matter up.

So can anyone help clear up Constructs for me?  I live in fear that one day one of my PCs will want to build one and I will be like "duh..."

Thanks in advance - I am so psyched that I found this forum!!!

[Panjumanju]

Hmmm...I've always been a bit sticky on the Construct rules, and lucky that none of my players have brought them to me.

One of the advantages of he system is that there are so many things that can be made that are somewhere between creature, artefact and construct - inhabiting a kind of nebulous space of identity.

I wouldn't think having a Construct coming up in game would be any better or worse than a Creature or Artefact, but I'll take a look at my Shadow Knight for what you mean.

//Panjumanju

[noman]

Hi tcabril,

Sorry for the wall of text.

Short answer: Write your own descriptions.  Don't worry about constructs being too powerful and breaking your campaign.  They are and they probably will.

Long Answer:

Some GMs don't seem to like constructs because they can easily unbalance a campaign.  They're right.  Their solution to issues regarding constructs is to simply disallow them.

I LOVE constructs.  I love to throw power at my players and watch the show

The reason for this wariness is exactly the issue you've brought up; a construct's abilities isn't defined clearly in the game rules.  Like most of ADRP, you're given a framework, some vague hints, and left to fend for yourself. :banghead:

The GM has to to do most of the homework when it comes to figuring out what a construct does.  This is how I handle it.

I sit down with the player, and let him describe the construct: what it is, what powers it's based on, what the power source is, etc. etc.  I ask a lot of questions.  We start off general, then get into more detail.  I try to get as detailed a description as possible.  I try to fill in any gaps before gameplay.

Once we've got a good, solid description of the construct, we work on what it can actually do.  I let the player describe (in detail) what he wants the construct to do.  I give a lot of leeway here.  I only have two rules about what a construct can and can't do:

(A) If the power source behind the construct (pattern, trump, etc) can do it, the construct can probably do it as well.

(B) Give the player what he wants, but apply common sense.

The player and I hash it out until we have a list of about three to six things the construct can do.  I edit them as needed, given the above two rules, then I nerf the crap out of them.  I make the abilities of a construct weak for new players (100 to 150 points) and only moderately weak for more advanced players.

I explain to the player why I'm doing this.  I make it very clear that constructs can be used and manipulated by the GM in a way that regular artifacts and creatures can't.  They are very powerful, literally extensions of the Powers, and as such, they will have an effect on the character and the story in a far more dramatic way than artifacts and creatures.  I explain that the construct WILL change and evolve during the course of the game, and not always for the player's benefit.  It will not always be under the player's control  The reduction of power I impose on the construct is to simulate a fledgling construct (or a 'sleeping' construct, for constructs that are found in the game and have a long history), as well as to allow the player to play with 'training wheels', to get a feel for how constructs work.

As the game goes on, I will make behind the scenes changes to the construct.  It will allow it to evolve and become more powerful the more it is used.  I strengthen and expand the powers already described by the player, and add my own.  This results in constructs becoming very powerful the more they're used and the more experienced the player is in using them.  Constructs become a little more organic this way, and my players really never know what's going on with their constructs.  This adds to the tension and mystery of the game.

I use the point system as a framework.  I apply it lightly, only to get a sense of scale.  Most of the details of a construct are written out without worrying about point costs.  However, I make these descriptions very detailed.  ADRP is a mostly narrative game, and the mechanics tend to work better if they stay in the background.

Hope this helped.

[tcabril]

Thanks guys!!!
That helps a lot.

So I thought of designing a quick one for my own edification.  Let me know if I am doing this correctly...

I am envisioning a Living Museum of Sorts that exits to collect items from shadow that the creator would like to preserve for his/her own amusements.

The creator has Logrus (and by default shape-shift).

Description of what it does:  The creator (a lord or lady of Chaos) likes to seek out and collect unique items from Shadow but is lazy and does not want to do it his/herself.  So he/she designs a Logrus based construct to collect and store items in a grand museum out in shadow.  The Restricted Access is to prevent items, once collected, from being easily stolen or retrieved.  The museum can grow and change its appearance and size to incorporate more items.
[Note:  What if the construct in trying to collect unique items for its master or mistress decided to collect an Amberite such as a PC's....]

Museum Construct [9 pts]
Shadow Louvre [7 pts]
   Shadow of the Realm (Chaos) [2 pts]
   Control over Time Flow [2 pts]
   Communication Barrier [1 pts]
   Restricted Access [2 pts]
   Unique [*1 pts]
No Manifestation [Zero Pts]
Psychic Sensitive [1 pts]
Item Shape Shift - Alternate Form [1 pts] {this is to deal with the fact that museum can grow over time to incorporate more items}

[daniel_ream]

Hmmm...I've always been a bit sticky on the Construct rules, and lucky that none of my players have brought them to me.u

I've never used any of the rules in Shadow Knight.  I've found the basic Item rules from the base book work just fine for anything anyone has brought me (and I've had a fair few "construct" style items).

My biggest complaint about ADRPG is how much and how often the various construction rules lead people down the Champions rathole of thinking that all these numbers mean anything.

[Artifacts of Amber]

I have My own rules for artifacts and Constructs here is the link

https://another-day-in-paradise.obsidianportal.com/wikis/shadows-and-artifacts


Basically I rewrote the Artifacts rules though they are easily recognizable.

Constructs use those rules and split the cost between me and the player. the Construct is independent and I control half, if the player doesn't continue to invest I might. Works out great for me

[jibbajibba]

I ahve built a fair few constructs as a PC and as a Gm.

I ususally follow Noman's model pretty much to the letter.

There are definitely lines between Items, constructs and new powers and the three are basically a continum as far as I can see.

So my first Construct was the Matrix (this is back in 89 so no film plagerism )
the matrix is a computer construct of the Pattern well its trying to be in fact that never quite worked and what we ended up with was an alternate object generated by magically enhanced computers that generates a mesh line enclosure that can contain the essence of Shadow Storms, tha Maelstrom. The Maelstrom itself is obviously linked to primal chaos but again that was an experiment that I never managed to delve.

What it does it projects through shadow an extenstion gateway to a primale plane that contains the malestrom, basically I deployed it in a shadow that was undergoing a shadow storm trapping the Maelstrom. you can basically use it to unleash the Maelstrom into the current shadow. The intersting thing is that the Maelstrom seems able to destroy shadows very close to Amber, Tir for example
Projection of the Matrix is done through trump

The Loom was a construct built by a PC when I was running the game so I have a more holistic view of it.
Promethus had issues insanity following his negotiation of the Logrus had led to a split personality. Roberto his alter ego became his greatest antagonist. So Promethus would set up shop in some shadow and begin his experiments to breed the finest troops devoid of fickle emotion, demons, infused with logrus power formed from aspects of his own personality , shards, were the base method. Anyway it was all a bit 1984 meets 1941 if you see what I mean, but then Roberto wakes up on a beach no memories no powers but a huge reservoir of stuff. He finds himself in a hellish world run by an evil tyrant named Prometheus so he sets about destroying the civilisation that has been built. The tyrants minions are powerful almost it seems impossible to harm, though they seem strangely rudderless, for a tyrant Prometheus it seems is pretty hands off. Roberto sets about constructing a tool that will aid him. The Loom is able to suck strands of shadow matter together from across the multiverse and weave them together Roberto doesn't really know how it works or why it works for him, in reality it used a form of abnormal Logrus mastery to fetch shadow elements which it pares down to their raw components, also in reality it is part of Roberto's own psyche but as such it has its own "personality". The loom acts as an uber conjuration tank. The things it conjures however are Real as it used the base shadow matter of the Universe and unbeknownst to Roberto his own shapeshifted blood to imbue them with power.
thanks to the power of the Loom Roberto manages to tear down Prometheus's nightmare creation and then Prometheus wakes up in the ruins of his once great temple and finds that a stranger named Roberto has destroyed everything so vows to get revenge and hunt him down.

At one point Prometheus is in Amber when a giant eagle that Roberto has created with the loom crashes in through the Rose window into the throne room of Amber. It certainly creates an interesting side story