TheRPGSite

Prince of Nothing Reviews: Arrows of Indra.
 
Copy-pasting does not a good game make...

Note: I edited this so it conforms with forum rules. Edited text is in brackets.

Disclaimer: As most of you reading this already know, I am peripherally affiliated with the entity known as YDIS. YDIS as a community does not condone the actions, statements, products or indeed, very existence of [RPGPUNDIT]. As such I cannot truthfully state that this review is free of personal bias. However, I have striven to be as honest as humanly possible in reviewing as Arrows of Indra. Take what grains of salt you deem appropriate.

This is a long-ass review so you might want to read it in shifts and take frequent coffee-breaks.

Reading Arrows of Indra was not a pleasant experience for me. [Like most of you here] I do not believe the OSR is entirely creatively bankrupt. I love D&D, I’ve run 2nd edition, Basic and 3.5 and even a one-shot game of Carcosa in the past, and I like the philosophy of old school gaming in general. I believe there is room for innovation in the OSR and that people use retroclones to explore new ground(i.e adventures, settings) with an old system. Arrows of Indra made me question this assumption. Maybe the OSR is pointless and we should have let D&D die along with TSR.

Moving on, for this particular review I have used the pdf version, generously donated to me by a close personal friend [NOT ON 7CHAN]. The cover(which is nice and well-executed) allegedly contains a depiction of a [cis-gender] character(as Pundit is quick to remind anyone who cares(i.e nobody)), but this is hard to verify and not immediately obvious. The layout is fine, the artwork varies from acceptable (some landscapes, deities, items and animals) to terrible(everything else). The in-game map is serviceable.

We start with our Introduction by Pundit where he proudly proclaims that you do not need to know anything about Indian myth outside of this book. Remember this point. He follows it up with the obligatory stupid disclaimer where he informs us that it should not be taken as an authoritative source on anything [Hindu related], with the addendum that he does not advocate any caste system and acknowledges ‘the equality of all regardless of circumstance.’ Will Dark Albion contain a similar disclaimer about hereditary aristocracies and goblin slaying? However, a lot of rpgs feel the need to contain such ridiculous disclaimers so I will let this one slide.

Chapter 1 contains character generation rules. You will be pleased to know 4d6 drop lowest, in order or whatever the GM deems fit is still as functional as it was in the 80s. Everything is pretty much B/X with a resurrection probability table for Con. Next up is a caste system(roll randomly), which offers cultural context and ability bonus scores/penalties along with a recommendation that you should think twice about letting people play a Dalit(untouchable caste). Please note that class choice is determined by caste for humans. Overall, this section works fairly well and provides the necessary context for playing in caste.

The we have random family generation (which they mention is important in Arrows of Indra so I guess it is then) and this little gem.

“When the number of surviving siblings have been determined, the GM should roll randomly to determine which point in the birth order that PC is found; for example, if there are 5 surviving siblings, the GM could roll d6 (with a 1 indicating the PC is the oldest, 2 the second oldest, etc). If the number of surviving siblings is less convenient for a simple die roll the GM should pick the method that works best.”

I think he might be on to something here. The next [GOSH DARNED] rule section anyone writes should just have ‘THE GM SHOULD PICK THE METHOD THAT WORKS BEST” plastered a several hundred times across each page, The Shining Style. I want to make merry and mock Arrows but it is so uninspiring even its failures are pedestrian. It fails not by the virtue of its grasp extending its reach, it fails by having no reach and by being made by a [PROUD AND NOBLE DEFENDER OF RPGS]

Next up we have the different races drawn from Indian myth, which are all mechanically superior to their human counterparts(token level limits here and there) and, with the omission of some flavour text, more or less mechanically identical to the demi-humans we have been gently inoculated with for all our role-playing lives(exception, Rakshasa’s). Gandharva’s get a +1 to dex and a -1 to con and are immune to charm(ahem, Mantra of Irresistable Presence), sleep, aging and get +1 to ranged weapons and +1 additional with bows. Vanara’s are monkey men that get an AC bonus versus medium or large creatures and a bonus to saves vs poison magic items spells/sneaking/ and a strength penalty/dex bonus. Yaksha’s are mountain spirits that get a +4 AC vs Giant sized creatures.

THIS IS THE REVERSE OF WHAT A NEW RACE SHOULD BE LIKE. A new race should bring variety and role-playing opportunity and mechanics should reflect that. If your new race amounts to an elf with a bollywood coat of paint and two paragraphs of background slapped on you should rework it until it is something new. The worst thing is that Pundit claims this is a deliberate choice so it would be ‘familiar’ to DnD players. Yes. Pundit deliberately chose to do [THE BESTEST JOB HE POSSIBLY COULD DO UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES], because he knew anyone [COURAGEOUS AND NOBLE] enough to buy his stuff would be too [KIND-HEARTED AND CONTENT] to protest. He is giving you something nearly identical to something that already exists, and he is charging money for it.

[Example of] new races well done: Empire of the Petal Throne. I will be referring to EoPT(OD&D edition) more often in this review(later editions of which have been much maligned by [RPGPUNDIT], [ENTIRELY UNRELATED WITH] part of a plot to cover up how much he ripped off the OD&D version in writing Arrows of Indra). In many ways Arrows of Indra is a mirror-universe EoPT, derivative where EoPT was original, uninspiring where EoPT was overflowing with creativity etc. Arrows of Indra lacks depth, and nearly all the background material is just a thin veneer covering yet another retroclone. If you just want a retroclone, get one that is free. If you want an original setting, look elsewhere. This is [A WONDERFUL PRODUCT BY A TALENTED KIND HEARTED SOUL]

Classes are inoffensive because they are identical to AD&D 1st edition with token tweaks and different names to make them more Indian-y and to avoid accusations of directly copy-pasting the Player’s Handbook(Priests can’t turn undead, Paladins can summon a giant eagle(Garruda) instead of a horse, Yogi’s are monks but called Yogi’s etc.). XP is now the same for every class. Saving throws are reduced to a single saving throw(which was pretty balsy when Swords & Wizardry did it). [BORROWING] mechanics from better games and incorporating them into itself is also very Arrows of Indra.

Alignment has been changed to Holy, Neutral and Unholy, and covers one’s standing with the gods(Holy means the gods like you Unholy means the Asura’s like you). That’s okay and reflects the setting a bit better. Next comes the vaunted skill system, which [PUNDIT] is quick to add is new, which either makes him [VERACIOUSLY HANDICAPPED] or simply unaware of the definition of the word ‘new’.

We get a hybridized d20 system for the skill resolution which works reasonably well. D20+ability score bonus+Proficiency ‘score’ roll against DC 10, 15 or 20.
 As Pundit mentions, you get both ‘background’ skills based on your randomly generated caste(e.g proficiency-esque skills like brickmaking) and class skills(class abilities for the anyone except the monk I mean Yogi) for which you roll randomly each level.

This innovative new approach is so undeniably brilliant, M.A Barker resurrected himself, read arrows of Indra, was blown away and invented time travel so he could put pretty much the same system in EoPT(page 18). Of course Barker calls them ‘original skills’ and ‘professional skills’ and you roll randomly for which skill group you select them from(Unlike AoI, which uses random dice to determine which skills you get based on caste) and to his credit Barker did change the way you get new skills each level.

To further illustrate what a hack Barker is, he also had the temerity to copy Pundit’s professional skill I mean class skill system. Barker did remove some of the randomness in the skill selection, but that’s a taste thing. So on to the class skills themselves. Every class rolls a d6 and gets a skill from the Tier 1 skill table.
 Priests need skills to cast spells(though some of the skills they get per level just allow them to learn things like languages, a design Barker cynically copies in his hack-job Empire of the Petal Throne Indra-clone). Most of the skills give the user the ability to conduct rituals, which are mostly defensive or utility based spells that take several minutes to cast and require incense. When you randomly get a particular spell-like ability you can generally use it once per day.
This is a [TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY DIFFERENT] from priest skills in EoPT, which are mostly defensive or utility based spells that you can generally use about once per day. No tier system in EoPT, simply a line of skills and the order in which they are to be taken though.
 
Fighter skills are sort of what you’d expect, you get bonuses on specific weaponry, some charioteering, same proficiency twice means more bonuses, some Tier 2 stuff for improved defensive fighting, command and chakrams.
 
On to the Siddhi skills(different from a wizard, Siddhi’s cannot wear armour and are bad at fighting). Here we see the Pundit really shine. Skills include a mixture of offensive, defensive and utility spellike abilities that can be used 1/day in general, and a really cool skill that is the first skill on the first table called Asana, that allows you to freeze your entire body in place or hold your breath for an extremely long period of time(1 breath per day).
 
Of course that time-travelling asshole Barker has to ruin things again by making Control of Self the first skill magic users get in his hack-job Arrows of Indra Clone(page 21), which allows them to hold their breath for extremely long periods of time and freeze their body into place. And he also has the gall to make most of the magic user abilities spell-like abilities with a mixture of defensive, offensive and utility based powers that can generally be used 1/day. And of course Barker bases his last power, the Grey Hand(p. 21), a touch spell that destroys a target utterly and is usable 1/day, heavily off of [Edited out, doxxing -Admin-] THE BHAIRAVA-MUDRA, a touch spell that destroys a target utterly but with a saving throw that is usable 1/day.

Now, I have been slightly cynical towards the Pundit’s work, but thankfully Pundit has incorporated another way of getting spell-like powers for wizards and clerics, a wholly original system called Enlightenment Powers, and oh boy has he earned back my trust. You have a percentile based chance to get 1 randomly generated spell-like power, generally useable 1/day, from each of the 3 tiers of enlightenment powers each level. Sounds pretty cool, and guarantees each priest/wizard is different. Naturally the percentile based chance of gaining powers from different tiers increases as one goes up in levels.
Would you care to guess at the nature of the bonus spells system for priests and magic-users in EoPT? If you guessed percentile based chance of getting 1 or more spellike abilities from 3 different tiers of powers each level(some of which are essentially the same spells across editions) with increased percentage based chances as you go up in level, you are [A WONDERFUL INDIVIDUAL WITH HAPPY FEELINGS AND LOVE]

Lest I be accused of anything but the utmost diligence, the equipment section is next. It is mostly unoffensive and contains pretty much exactly what you would expect in an equipment section for mythic India. Of interest to some of you might be the listed price for concubines and various other slaves, where special mention is made of the existence of ‘kliba’ or cis-gender concubines. Delicious.
This section gives EoPT a break and instead borrows the weapons vs AC from AD&D 1st edition. Chariots and elephants included along with some rules for how to use them(chariot rules were a bit lacking imho) Of particular interest to historians might be the encumbrance system, which is streamlined and very easy to use and stolen from Star Without Numbers GODDAMMIT I WANT TO READ SOMETHING NEW GIVE ME SOMETHIOQUIIOUDHFISHDFOIASJF
…
 …
 …
A crash dump has occurred. Rebooting in safe mode.
…Standby
…Standby
…Welcome Prince of Nothing

Moving on to GM procedures, this section amounts to little more then house rules and minor modifications to B/X and AD&D. I should be fair and say this section, while undoubtedly [STOLEN I MEAN BORROWED DAMN YOU] from various sources with rodent-like ingenuity and [ONLY THE BESTEST OF INTENTIONS], is pretty well done. The house rules are a decent interpretation of Basic, with a few additions, tweaks and clarifications that will no doubt make it fun to play for the shadowy un-beings that hide in the spaces between worlds where deleted pdf files go. Notably missing are rules for underwater combat as well as mass combat, an essential part in emulating Indian Myths(the latter, not the former). It turns out a system that has withstood over two decades of continued play is pretty functional and most of the house rules work out some of the tweaks. I say house rules, but that’s only because I don’t feel like going through each retro-clone and figuring out when exactly Pundit [BORROWED] what from where.

On to the big selling point, the Gazetteer of the Bharata Kingdoms. This section is a lot less painful then the rest, but that also makes it the most tragic. Because this could have been a very good setting. Instead it is decent at best. I blame this on one central flaw; It adheres too closely to the Mahabarata(or whatever it is based on), at the cost of playability, maybe because Pundit didn’t feel confident enough in his abilities as a writer to put other shit in there. The Bharata Kingdoms as a setting needed more hooks and more shit going on. What is there is good, there is simply not enough of it, and some of it needs more description.
 When the gazzeteer is good, its pretty decent; most of the rulers for each kingdom are described and have various histories, feuds and other stuff that makes them reasonably interesting(a bad-ass emperor(Jarasandha) that seeks to sacrifice 100 kings to Shiva in order to complete some sort of ritual that will allow him mastery over all the worlds, a Rakshasa King, An Asura King who is a total pussy and loyal to the emperor out of fear etc). Mention is made of the occasional Naga(snake-dudes) city ruins, Asura Kingdoms and so forth, but details are very sparse and the single sentence descriptions are not evocative. While it could have used more structure(im thinking Greyhawk boxed set with population figures and shit, and maybe some levels and classes for the npcs?), it gives a decent amount of background information. I should point out that most of this is high level shit, entire kingdoms at eachother throats, super-powerful mythical demi-god warrior stuff etc. and for most Pcs, a lot of this shit will be background stuff for a long time. What also happens sometimes is that you get a region where Shiva or Rama did something cool and now it is a wasteland with no reason to go there. Overall, while what’s there is decent, it needs more. More descriptions of Asura kings kicking ass and impaling midgets, more Rakshasa warlords burning villages, more mad and feuding kings etc. Give us some ruins with descriptions and origins and some reason to go there and find shit other then treasure. THERE IS AN NAGA CITY HEAAR is not a good hook. Nevertheless, this section is alright.

Next up is the dungeon section, or Patala underworld, a gigantic cave structure with seven lairs that runs all the way to hell, filled with Asuras, Nagas and other cool shit that you can beat the shit out of. This section is undeniably badass and I am mostly positive about it.
 
We get an overview of all seven lairs of the Patala underworld, one requires you to sneak/fight past a Naga king with poison breath to even get in and is ruled by a badass Asura named Bala with his 1000 strong succubi harem(or the Indian Equivalent). They will try to charm and seduce guests into “Unholy acts of sensual lust until they die of exhaustion.” Aw yeah.
 Second lair is populated by ghosts and goblins(no wonder they call him ‘Pundit’. Ha ha. Get it? Pun?), Haragrivya, an Asura king who can only be slain by someone who is also called Haragrivya(I shit you not, that kicks ass). Also a city by Shiva for players to discover and retrieve something from.
 Third lair is a paradise-prison guarded by Deva’s(demigods) trapping Bali, an Asura king so powerful he once almost conquered the universe. He seeks penance now but the gods are still understandably nervous about letting him go. Good place to have shit happen.
 4th layer is ruled by Mayu, Asura lord of deception and architect of hell. He used to build gigantic floating death cities and now his entire clan has been imprisoned in the 4th layer, a labyrinth filled with architectural marvels and he likes to corrupt and torment visitors until they go insane. My first though was ‘why the fuck am I reading about cities that have already been destroyed? That sounds kickass. Why wasn’t I there? Fuck!’
5th layer we have our Naga-demi gods and our Asuras and our Rakshasas. Nothing special.
 6th layer is ruled by a special tribe of Asuras but we don’t know what makes them special so we don’t care.
 7th layer leads into the hell realms and holds the largest Naga City ever, with plenty of stuff to loot and magical aging-retardant disease curing milk to loot, along with a shitload of Nagas and a Naga god-king to guard your shit.
There’s a bunch of tables for generating random caves, tunnels, contents and different encounter tables for each level. This section is very useful but the random encounter tables are strange. We would expect the encounter tables to get progressively harder as you descend into the underworld, instead they actually get slightly easier as you descend, which is an odd choice.

Overland encounters is okay, encounter tables for overland shit. Nothing spectacular that you have not seen before, but it’s useful. Random quest table bears an unerring resemblance to the one from EoPt(p. 41) but I am inclined to let it go since the quests are very vague and general.

Next comes the monster section and it is bizarre(and not in a good way). People have pointed out the monsters are derivative(goblins, giants etc.) and Pundit retaliates by hiding behind mythological accuracy. He mentions 84 different creatures specifically taken from Indian mythology. What we actually get are 84 creatures, 40 of which are mundane or giant animals, reptiles, vermin or humans(bandits, barbarians etc.). We get giants, goblins, living dead(zombies), animate statues, air deva’s(air elemental), earth deva’s(guess), Fire Spirits(yup), Ghost ; Bhuta(like a ghost but indian and with the same stats) and skeletons. That’s 49 creatures we have seen before, not sufficiently different either mechanically or flavour-wise to qualify as different.
 We get Type A to Type E Asura’s, which depressed me to no end, as well as pundit smugly mentioning that the GM can modify them to no end as these are meant to be general categories, along with a general purpose Asura Prince and King template. They might as well have been ripped straight from the AD&D monster manual. Terrible. Why isn’t the random monstrosity generator(there is a random creature in it, which also doesn’t count) used to generate Asura’s? Another bizarre case is the Preta, a super interesting creature from Hindu myth(looked it up on wiki) that Pundit actually went out of his way to make mechanically identical to a ghoul. This is symptomatic of Arrows of Indra as a whole. It doesn’t turn D&D into something cool. It turns something cool into D&D. It is anti-creative. It smothers heterogeneity wherever it rears its ugly head. We could go on, but the monster section was a massive letdown, and even a seven headed cobra couldn’t save it. Fucking throw out half the giant animals, rewrite every undead creature so it feels weird and exotic and make at least 6 entries about Asura Princes/races. Go nuts. Raktaveya, Ravana, Vritra, Trisias. Make up some yourself. These things are a major antagonist in your setting. Show us them.

The treasure section is the coup de grace. The [WARM HAPPY FEELINGS] of a retro-clone. The paint is scraped off and reveals the corpse of D&D underneath. Again we see the pattern of Arrow of Indra taking shit that could have been really unique and fun and making it resemble the D&D we already know as much as possible. It’s almost as if it was made in some kind of alternate universe totalitarian world government controlled by a council of TsR Gygax androids where everything that deviates from the accepted parameters of D&D is ruthlessly supressed.
-The Herb section. (Potion section with the serial numbers filed off). Curing Herb. Endurance Herb(gives con bonus). Herb Against Cold. Herb of Invisibility. Herb of Swiftness.
-Minor Sutra’s! Like scrolls only they replicate enlightenment powers(which mostly replicate wizard spells).
-Major Sutras. Like Librams and Tomes. This section feels slightly less derivative. Honourable mention to the Supreme Bhakti Sutras, which increases the chance of divine intervention by 5% for anyone who studies it. The rest mostly gives a level to certain classes or a permanent +1 to attacks or damage with something.
-Mala beads(Palette swapped amulet section). Mala of Calming Animals. Mala of protection from affliction. Mala of sensing magic. Is this deliberate? Why not make something new and inspiring and fun?
-Staffs. Like the staff section in D&D only the staffs have less abilities and may even have different names. For example, Pundit re-named the Rod of Cancellation to the Staff of Annuling Magic, and I think you should donate to his blog to support him fighting the good fight[SECTION OMITTED].
-Ring Section. Ring of Protection+2. Ring of True Vision. Ring of Aescetics(sustenance). Terrible.
-Conch shells. Like horns. Guess which horn they correspond to. Shanka of devastating force. Deva-summoning Shaka. Shaka of Confusion in Battle. To be fair, these are the worst offenders, the conch shells have a lot of different powers. I would almost give it a pass if by this time I was not seething with rage.
-Wonderous Items. Mostly derivative garbage(e.g gauntlets of ogre power in a dress, rope of climbing, plentiful cup that is a decanter of endless something), with a handful of decent items. A flying chariot of the gods. A magic wicker basket with a palace inside that is impregnable against all but the most powerful magic(If it’s a Daern’s instant fortress clone, it’s at least well disguised). A third eye that lets you control winds but not to hurricane strength.
-A magic item and weapon section with an emphasis on bows that is not worth the price of admission but is not actively offensive either. Be prepared to gaze in awe at magic things that inflict 1d6 extra fire damage. A child could have thought of that.
-Last and certainly not least is a list of artefact weapons to be granted by the gods themselves for specific quests. All of them are ridiculously powerful(an arrow that instantly disintegrates anything below 9 HD within 2000 feet, an arrow that gets +20 to hit and instantly kills his target(printed twice for no reason, once for shiva once for Vishnu, different names) etc.). They have no drawbacks and are likely to function mostly as plot devices(arrow that transforms into a rain of arrows and chakrams inflicting the enemies HD d8 to each enemy within 2000 feet). However, some have at least some lore attached to them and the effects can be a little badass, so these too get a very perfunctory pass. Note that some form of mass combat rules would have greatly increased the utility of shit like this.

And…close off with a decent overview of major religions. Recent amount of detail is given. No information of Asura princes and their rituals. Lame. Guessing its Unholy acts and perverse reflections of what the gods want. Whatever. Two appendixes, dealing with higher level play(what you would expect in B/X only without siege rules or mass combat) and one detailing future events in the Mahabharata. Not likely to see much use, but more interesting then 80% of the book.

Overall, while Arrows of Indra is undeniably functional, it is uninspired, derivative and falsely advertised. Pundit’s claims of only having to read the product to get a grip on Mythic India gaming [CANNOT BE VERIFIED BUT I CANT PROVE ANYTHING]. The few nuggets of creativity buried here and there do not save it from a likely unmarked rpg-grave at the bottom of a pit. I would pay perhaps $3.50 for the setting and underworld sections. The GM section should be free on a blog.

My recommendation is you spend your 10$ on reference works for Indian Mythology(you can read the Mahabharata and probably others online for free btw), download a free copy of labyrinth lord, OSRIC or swords and wizardry, and make your own setting. You can do better then this drivel.

Utility: Derivative but undeniably functional.
 Presentation: mostly shitty art.
 Creativity: Source material is great. Presentation thereof is lacking and the author should not be afraid to go beyond his source material a bit more. Game is overall a derivative waste of time, with the possible exception of the gazetteer and underworld sections.
 Use your $10: To check out Against the Dark Yogi Instead.

Aside from the probable sock banning, you missed one banning offense in the text.

I assure you, i am not a sockpuppet. Please inform me where i went wrong so i can correct this error. Thank you!:)

First, banned for doxxing, stalking, and intentional site disruption (posting a character assassination masquerading as a legitimate review).

Later, I'll  respond to the post itself, and point out all the ways that it's bullshit.

Man, that's a painful read, trolling is supposed to at least be droll.

What's YDIS, anyway?

Quote from: Doom;802274What's YDIS, anyway?

It's the big news source for the OSR

The only funny concept RPG review was FATAL, and it was only funny for a week back in, what, 2002; the RPG "community" of the time killed it by refusing to develop new jokes, instead sticking to the same tired feigned outrage, exaggerated complaints, and aimless rants.

That the writers themselves couldn't even improve on the concept in seven years might be a clue that there simply isn't anywhere else for the concept to go.

Quote from: Doom;802274Man, that's a painful read, trolling is supposed to at least be droll.

What's YDIS, anyway?

The Yamaha Dual Intake System, which is something technical to do with engines (I'm a Top Gear fan, which means I clearly know fuck all about the inside of a car).

Quite what Pundit did to upset a community of engine obsessives, who can say.

I swear that I read this same review on the SA forums a year or two ago.

I might actually enjoy it if the YDIS crowd showed up and more or less played by the rules (e.g. no doxxing). There's a gram of valid criticism of certain OSR trends beneath the tons of adolescent humor. And they even managed to be genuinely funny (if really, really uncouth) every now and then. Obviously not the case here.

YDIS used to be the Tijuana bible of the OSR, you had to be "this popular" to merit a quote in a blog post (I seem to recall Benoist getting a rise out of being named in one such post).

Quote from: misterguignol;802288It's the big news source for the OSR

No, its a hate-blog created by an SA-Goon, usually filled with 4chan-levels of profanity and adolescent dirty-jokes, that attacks OSR games and game designers.  They have for a long time had a hate-on for Zak, Raggi, and myself in roughly that order (but they often branch out to attack other OSR designers).

Ok, let's do this; though I should really not be wasting my time with this given that (as no doubt the Swine over at YDIS will be tickled pink to know) I've just been hired on a permanent contract with a major website to do some major writing work based on the quality of my blog and RPG writing.  More on that in a couple of weeks, folks.  But in any case, let's give this stupid fuck's hatchet job the attention it utterly does not deserve:

Quote from: PrinceofNothing;802169Note: I edited this so it conforms with forum rules. Edited text is in brackets.

Apparently not well enough, you ridiculous fuck.  

QuoteReading Arrows of Indra was not a pleasant experience for me. [Like most of you here] I do not believe the OSR is entirely creatively bankrupt. I love D&D, I've run 2nd edition, Basic and 3.5 and even a one-shot game of Carcosa in the past, and I like the philosophy of old school gaming in general. I believe there is room for innovation in the OSR and that people use retroclones to explore new ground(i.e adventures, settings) with an old system. Arrows of Indra made me question this assumption. Maybe the OSR is pointless and we should have let D&D die along with TSR.

I'm fairly sure that last sentence is the only true statement of your beliefs out of that entire paragraph.  Since, for starters, you clearly don't know or understand the general principles of the OSR.

QuoteThe cover(which is nice and well-executed) allegedly contains a depiction of a [cis-gender] character... but this is hard to verify and not immediately obvious.

You mean to say transgender, right?
In any case, I'll write more about just how much of an ass you are for this part sometime soon. I'll leave it for now.

QuoteHe follows it up with the obligatory stupid disclaimer where he informs us that it should not be taken as an authoritative source on anything [Hindu related], with the addendum that he does not advocate any caste system and acknowledges 'the equality of all regardless of circumstance.'

It was only obligatory because it was absolutely predicted (and of course came to pass that) you and your fellow pseudo-activists tried to self-servingly attack AoI as though I was endorsing caste systems or any number of other equally stupid claims of outrage over things you wouldn't give a shit about at any time that it didn't serve your purpose of trying to 'take me down'.

QuoteThe we have random family generation (which they mention is important in Arrows of Indra so I guess it is then) and this little gem.

"When the number of surviving siblings have been determined, the GM should roll randomly to determine which point in the birth order that PC is found; for example, if there are 5 surviving siblings, the GM could roll d6 (with a 1 indicating the PC is the oldest, 2 the second oldest, etc). If the number of surviving siblings is less convenient for a simple die roll the GM should pick the method that works best."

I think he might be on to something here. The next [GOSH DARNED] rule section anyone writes should just have 'THE GM SHOULD PICK THE METHOD THAT WORKS BEST" plastered a several hundred times across each page, The Shining Style. I want to make merry and mock Arrows but it is so uninspiring even its failures are pedestrian. It fails not by the virtue of its grasp extending its reach, it fails by having no reach and by being made by a [PROUD AND NOBLE DEFENDER OF RPGS]

So... you're an allegedly experienced player of OSR games, and yet you don't get that from the OSR perspective "rulings not rules" is not only a feature-not-bug but one of the GUIDING PRINCIPLES of the movement?

I guess that shouldn't be a surprise since you go on to pretend that sticking to tradition and not reinventing the wheel for gaming mechanics are somehow failings rather than the entire point of OSR design.

QuoteTHIS IS THE REVERSE OF WHAT A NEW RACE SHOULD BE LIKE. A new race should bring variety and role-playing opportunity and mechanics should reflect that. If your new race amounts to an elf with a bollywood coat of paint and two paragraphs of background slapped on you should rework it until it is something new.

Your claims of OSR street-cred are becoming increasingly ridiculous here, but you certainly are showing yourself to be a likely candidate to be well versed in hipster indie-gaming design ideas from the Forge.   The proof of this is in the way that you think mechanics are the way to make something different (bwah hahaha) and are somehow what defines roleplay.  Since in Forge games things like setting are a completely meaningless facade for a set of mechanics for story-creation, I guess I can understand how you would have focused on the mechanical similarity between a Dwarf and a Yaksha, and ignored completely the detailed descriptions of each race that point out just how different they are in action.  That's because over in the OSR, we don't use mechanics to show how to roleplay different, we just fucking roleplay it.

QuoteThe worst thing is that Pundit claims this is a deliberate choice so it would be 'familiar' to DnD players. Yes. Pundit deliberately chose

Yup, I absolutely did. Because that would serve the dual goal of pointing out how the underlying concepts of myth could be familiar to anyone who is already steeped in the (western) mythology of D&D (rather than thinking that these creatures are unapproachable concepts that we have no base for understanding), while the descriptive material would make very clear how at the same time they are an exotically different presentation of some of these similar concepts.  Elves, Dwarves, Vanara, Yaksha, Gandharvas, etc. (even hobbits) are all fairy or nature spirits in their mythological core, and thus comprehensible to anyone who is already familiar with some of these models (e.g., western elves or dwarves), but in the particulars of behaviour and presentation a Dwarf is not a Yaksha and a Vanara is definitely not a Hobbit.

QuoteHe is giving you something nearly identical to something that already exists, and he is charging money for it.

AoI is more different than Lamentations of the Flame Princess (which is awesome, mind you) and way more different than ACKS or Adventures Dark and Deep or Labyrinth Lord; but yes, what you wrote above is pretty much what the OSR does. The only real variation (and a source of debate within the OSR) is just how "nearly identical" you want it (and you might have missed the past and recent arguments on this, though given that you're clearly obsessed with me I strongly suspect you haven't, but I actually fall on the more radically innovative side of the spectrum).

QuoteIn many ways Arrows of Indra is a mirror-universe EoPT

I don't know if I'd go that far, but of course just recently someone who actually played with Barker and loved AoI felt that AoI would make a great Tekumel ruleset, and felt that the professor would have liked it a lot.

Quotederivative where EoPT was original

Only inasmuch as any OSR rpg is "derivative".  Again, you seem confused because you keep suggesting this as though it's a dirty word.
EPT was definitely original, no one could argue that. Except of course inasmuch as big parts of it were already mechanically 'derivative' of OD&D.  As indeed, you could say of pretty much every RPG in history, if you look at the very broad skeletal structure of what an RPG is (though of course in EPT's case, it was more than just broadly derivative in some areas).

Quoteuninspiring where EoPT was overflowing with creativity etc.

I suppose that this is a matter of taste.  If you feel that six-legged aliens are more 'inspiring' than the mythology that has driven an entire culture for the last 3000 years, I guess you're entitled to think that.

QuoteArrows of Indra lacks depth, and nearly all the background material is just a thin veneer covering yet another retroclone.

You don't seem to know what "retroclone" means; but that's not surprising given that you don't know what "OSR" is about either.  Let me put it this way: no one actually in the OSR would ever claim AoI is a 'retroclone' (a few might claim that AoI is not a 'true OSR' game, but that's another story).
And I'm afraid you have it backwards (again, as a consequence of having your brain so poisoned that you don't understand old-school and barely understand roleplaying games in general, it would seem): the background is not a veneer for the mechanics; the mechanics are a veneer for the background.  That's how it works in RPGs.  It's one of the big differences between RPGs and storygames.

QuoteIf you just want a retroclone, get one that is free. If you want an original setting, look elsewhere.

Well, technically speaking, I can't argue with either of these points.  If you actually want a RETROCLONE (that is, an OSR game intended to be a nearly-flawless and direct copy of a specific old-school D&D ruleset/edition) I would definitely suggest you get a free one.  I'm not a big fan of retroclones; I invented the term "clonemania" to describe the fever for them that erupted a few years back.

As for original setting, yes, if you want an 'original setting' you should definitely look elsewhere.  AoI is not meant to have an original setting at all. It has a setting that is absolutely and explicitly based on the legendary "Epic India" (the collection of places and kingdoms of the Mahabharata, some of which existed in history but not quite the way portrayed in the legends, and others which probably never really existed at all).

Quote[BORROWING] mechanics from better games and incorporating them into itself is also very Arrows of Indra.

Totally.  It's very OSR, in fact. Its part of what's made the OSR so successful, compared to the creative bankruptcy of 'tiddlywinks-as-game-resolution-mechanic' reinventing-the-wheel gibberish of the storygames/indie movement.  That's why some storygamers are now desperately trying to reinvent themselves and their games as OSR games (even though they're not), why the most successful (the only really successful) game to come out of the storygames movement in the last few years is based on dungeon-crawling and is so orthodox that it's not a storygame anymore, and why Ron Edwards is frantically trying to rewrite history to pretend that he was the inventor of old-school gaming.

QuoteAlignment has been changed to Holy, Neutral and Unholy, and covers one's standing with the gods(Holy means the gods like you Unholy means the Asura's like you). That's okay and reflects the setting a bit better.

I'll only comment here to point out that this is an endemic example of why this review is hatchet job: it glosses over some of the most significant portions of AoI (including most of the setting, and everything that is relatively innovative in the game) in a sentence or without mention at all, while grossly exaggerating and elaborating on something that is a secret to no one (that OSR games are mechanically derived from old-school games) to try to give a totally false impression of the product.  

But hey, I guess that's why I've been sent literally hundreds and hundreds (maybe into the four digits at this point?) of free RPG products to review (there's 13 books on my desk right now waiting to be reviewed, and at least 5 more in the mail that I know of), while you have to pirate PDFs from 7chan.

QuoteNext comes the vaunted skill system, which [PUNDIT] is quick to add is new, which either makes him [VERACIOUSLY HANDICAPPED] or simply unaware of the definition of the word 'new'.

Again, a perfectly understandable confusion on the part of an asshole who has no idea what he's talking about.  "New" here is in the context of the OSR, as in "new" meaning "different from standard old-school D&D".  

QuoteWe get a hybridized d20 system for the skill resolution which works reasonably well. D20+ability score bonus+Proficiency 'score' roll against DC 10, 15 or 20.
 As Pundit mentions, you get both 'background' skills based on your randomly generated caste(e.g proficiency-esque skills like brickmaking) and class skills(class abilities for the anyone except the monk I mean Yogi) for which you roll randomly each level.

This innovative new approach is so undeniably brilliant, M.A Barker resurrected himself, read arrows of Indra, was blown away and invented time travel so he could put pretty much the same system in EoPT(page 18). Of course Barker calls them 'original skills' and 'professional skills' and you roll randomly for which skill group you select them from(Unlike AoI, which uses random dice to determine which skills you get based on caste) and to his credit Barker did change the way you get new skills each level.

Having not recently pirated EPT as you appear to have done, I can't actually confirm everything you write about it here.  But I'm about 99% sure from my recollection of the last time I did read it that Barker didn't use a system cribbed from the D20 OGL (he was percentage based?).

But I had read EPT a while before writing AoI.   Is your next stunning revelation going to be that I "stole" Hit Points from D&D, or Ascending AC from D&D 3.0?

QuotePriests need skills to cast spells(though some of the skills they get per level just allow them to learn things like languages, a design Barker cynically copies in his hack-job Empire of the Petal Throne Indra-clone).

You haven't gone all the way down the rabbit hole yet, my friend!  While its true that Barker came back to life and copied the notion that Priests should be familiar with Languages from me (and Theology? I don't remember if Barker asked to borrow that too or if it isn't in EPT), you should also note how the ancient founders of the Vedic Priesthood actually traveled through time (soma was a really powerful magical drug, after all) and got the idea that priests should be erudite lore keepers from me and Barker while we were having turkish coffee together (me smoking a pipe, and him chewing on a cigar)!

Yes, the entire concept of Vedic Brahmin knowledge-training was clearly inspired (via time-traveling Brahmins) by Arrows of Indra, in a stunning case of temporal paradox.

Or, you know, Barker and I both have priests learning things like languages and theology because we were both copying ancient India.  It might be that too.

QuoteMost of the skills give the user the ability to conduct rituals, which are mostly defensive or utility based spells that take several minutes to cast and require incense. When you randomly get a particular spell-like ability you can generally use it once per day.
This is a [TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY DIFFERENT] from priest skills in EoPT, which are mostly defensive or utility based spells that you can generally use about once per day. No tier system in EoPT, simply a line of skills and the order in which they are to be taken though.

Again, this obviously has nothing to do with ancient Vedic priests conducting rituals. Nothing.
 

QuoteOn to the Siddhi skills(different from a wizard, Siddhi's cannot wear armour and are bad at fighting).

Yeah, again, totally NOT like in Ancient India, where ascetic magic-users regularly went around wearing +5 plate armor and beating the shit out of people with swords.  Why, the Buddha himself had a +5 Frostbrand.

Quotea really cool skill that is the first skill on the first table called Asana, that allows you to freeze your entire body in place or hold your breath for an extremely long period of time(1 breath per day).
 
Of course that time-travelling asshole Barker has to ruin things again by making Control of Self the first skill magic users get in his hack-job Arrows of Indra Clone(page 21), which allows them to hold their breath for extremely long periods of time and freeze their body into place.

Yeah, and nothing at all like Asana, the first and most basic skill of Raja-Yoga, which allows skilled practitioners to stay frozen in place and hold their breath for extremely long periods of time.

The real question here is whether that fucker Patanjali ripped off Barker or myself!

QuoteAnd he also has the gall to make most of the magic user abilities spell-like abilities with a mixture of defensive, offensive and utility based powers that can generally be used 1/day. And of course Barker bases his last power, the Grey Hand(p. 21), a touch spell that destroys a target utterly and is usable 1/day, heavily off of [Edited out, doxxing -Admin-] THE BHAIRAVA-MUDRA, a touch spell that destroys a target utterly but with a saving throw that is usable 1/day.

And nothing at all like the siddhis who could develop the power to kill instantly.  In some cases not even needing to touch a victim!  
Fun fact: one infamous shiva-yogi recently claimed to have this power, and a noted Indian skeptic challenged him to a Televised test where the yogi in question would kill the skeptic on live tv using only his power.  The yogi failed, of course.  It just goes to show how much more interesting the woo-woo guys are in India than here in the west, where the best we can manage is Uri Geller pretending to bend spoons.

QuoteLest I be accused of anything but the utmost diligence, the equipment section is next. It is mostly unoffensive and contains pretty much exactly what you would expect in an equipment section for mythic India. Of interest to some of you might be the listed price for concubines and various other slaves, where special mention is made of the existence of 'kliba' or cis-gender concubines. Delicious.

Delicious indeed that you mention the inclusion of third-gendered characters in the section on slaves, but not the section of description they get in the Setting chapter (including the level of acceptance they had in Vedic society and the heroic roles kliba PCs can play, like the one on the cover you maligned).  But hey, this is a fair review and not a pathetic attempt a character assassination, right?

QuoteThis section gives EoPT a break and instead borrows the weapons vs AC from AD&D 1st edition.

First, it's pretty different (in that its far more streamlined and easy to use) than anything in the AD&D 1e rules.  Second, you still keep saying this like its a bad thing and not the entire point of making an OSR rules-set.  I really don't have the time to explain to you what the OSR is (though you clearly know and are just willfully choosing to ignore that knowledge, given how utterly obsessed YDIS is with destroying the OSR), but if you were actually going to write an honest review of an OSR game it would have been great if you'd done a little less pretending to be an ignorant fucking piece of shit about it.

QuoteOf particular interest to historians might be the encumbrance system, which is streamlined and very easy to use and stolen from Star Without Numbers GODDAMMIT I WANT TO READ SOMETHING NEW GIVE ME SOMETHIOQUIIOUDHFISHDFOIASJF

Really? that's news to me. I thought I was 'stealing' from LotFP. Not exactly the same of course, but LotFP totally opened my eyes as to how to correctly do an encumbrance system.  In spite of having received SWN for free and having written a lengthy review of it, I have to admit that right now I don't even remember what the SWN encumbrance system was like (you'll have to forgive me, like I said, I've been sent hundreds and hundreds of RPGs to review, and SWN was quite a long time ago).  Maybe SWN 'stole' their encumbrance system from LotFP?  Or maybe LotFP stole it from SWN?  Well, either way, I'm sure you and your gang will be jumping onto the Mystery Machine to go solve that case right away in your apparently unending quest to reveal the shocking fact that Old School Renaissance RPGs borrow Old-school ideas from each other.

QuoteMoving on to GM procedures, this section amounts to little more then house rules and minor modifications to B/X and AD&D.

Well, you're partly right, of course.  They are from my house rules, definitely. And those house rules do come from things I've picked up in B/X (or rather, the RC D&D), AD&D, Majestic Wilderlands, LotFP, DCC, D20/3e, and several other places, as well as a few things that (as far as I know) were a product of my own inspiration.

Golly, the OSR was Old Man Jenkins all along! And he would have gotten away with it too, if it hadn't been for you darn gang of fucking morons!

QuoteNotably missing are rules for underwater combat as well as mass combat, an essential part in emulating Indian Myths(the latter, not the former).

Maybe the first authentic and non-asinine criticism you've had in the entire review! Congratulations.  I guess if you spray out a steady stream of bullshit, some turd is bound to actually hit the mark at some point.

Anyways, since AoI assumes party-level adventuring, it doesn't have a mass-combat mechanic. But this being the OSR, I'm sure anyone who actually buys AoI to play it (rather than pirating it to try to slander its author in a particularly ridiculous manner) will end up using.. sorry, STEALING!.. the mass-combat rules from another RPG.
In a few months, they'll even be able to use (after some houserule/mods) the mass-combat rules I'll be including in Dark Albion!  I look forward to seeing what kind of ridiculous claims you make about that one (that my setting seems suspiciously to have been totally ripped off from Shakespeare, perhaps? Or that there are curious and shady similarities between my 'Rose War' setting and George R. R. Martin's Game of Thrones, perhaps?).

QuoteOn to the big selling point, the Gazetteer of the Bharata Kingdoms. This section is a lot less painful then the rest, but that also makes it the most tragic. Because this could have been a very good setting. Instead it is decent at best. I blame this on one central flaw; It adheres too closely to the Mahabarata(or whatever it is based on), at the cost of playability, maybe because Pundit didn't feel confident enough in his abilities as a writer to put other shit in there. The Bharata Kingdoms as a setting needed more hooks and more shit going on. What is there is good, there is simply not enough of it, and some of it needs more description.

I can't really argue with a totally subjective statement. And surely, if I had another 100-200 pages of space, I might have added a lot more local-detail full of even more adventure hooks.  But I suspect again that you are operating from a non-OSR point of view here.  I think OSR-gamers (as compared to anti-OSR fuckwits) who look at the setting material in AoI as it currently stands will likely feel its got a plethora of material to set adventures in and similarly enough space that one isn't inundated in metaplot and culture-wank that prevents the GM from putting his own stamp on the world.

QuoteWhen the gazzeteer is good, its pretty decent; most of the rulers for each kingdom are described and have various histories, feuds and other stuff that makes them reasonably interesting(a bad-ass emperor(Jarasandha) that seeks to sacrifice 100 kings to Shiva in order to complete some sort of ritual that will allow him mastery over all the worlds, a Rakshasa King, An Asura King who is a total pussy and loyal to the emperor out of fear etc).

Ok, I feel like I have to make a confession here.  This hard-hitting review is prompting me to come clean: I have to admit I didn't think up any of this.
I'm sorry. To everyone I've disappointed, I'm sorry.  I didn't invent any of this stuff; it was totally ripped off, 'stolen', if you will in a blatant act of plagiarism, from a number of ancient texts I didn't quite cut-and-paste from but I might as well have. Unlike the rules-system, which is a construction from a variety of sources, compiled by me and not a clone of any other rules-system as such, the setting is a total and complete ripoff, of a non-western culture.
I was so sure I could get away with it too, but there you go, the truth must come out.  All those awesome NPCs in there? Krishna, Arjuna, Queen Kunti, all the various gods, all the cities, I didn't invent a single fucking one of them. I even ripped off things like the legal code and gender norms! Its shameless, and I have no excuse.

QuoteWhat also happens sometimes is that you get a region where Shiva or Rama did something cool and now it is a wasteland with no reason to go there.

Really? Where the fuck is that? I can think of a place where a god did something cool and now the whole place is a super-dangerous desert or ruin that is full of (roughly mid-level) peril and potential for exploration and treasure-seeking.
But as we've seen, you and I seem to have very different ideas of what defines 'creativity'.  I imagine you'd think that something like My Life With Master is 'creative', and not drivel.
What about dungeon world? Derivative theft from D&D and Apocalypse world? Trying to rip off the OSR? Or greatest storygame evar?

QuoteOverall, while what's there is decent, it needs more.

Can't ultimately argue with that.  Its why I still have in mind to get around to writing one or more regional sourcebooks.  I'll be excited to hear your damning critique about how my sourcebook on the Indus river valley blatantly rips off Indian geography.

QuoteNext up is the dungeon section, or Patala underworld, a gigantic cave structure with seven lairs that runs all the way to hell, filled with Asuras, Nagas and other cool shit that you can beat the shit out of. This section is undeniably badass and I am mostly positive about it.

I'm surprised you're not claiming its just "a blatant ripoff of the 'random dungeon generation' rules in the AD&D 1e DMG appendix of the same name".  Is it that your clown-like absurdity only goes so far, or are you just too ignorant of AD&D rulebooks to have thought of that one?
 

Quote4th layer is ruled by Mayu, Asura lord of deception and architect of hell. He used to build gigantic floating death cities and now his entire clan has been imprisoned in the 4th layer, a labyrinth filled with architectural marvels and he likes to corrupt and torment visitors until they go insane. My first though was 'why the fuck am I reading about cities that have already been destroyed? That sounds kickass. Why wasn't I there? Fuck!'

Because settings have a past. Also because I am only 'stealing' from Indian myth, and Indian myth didn't all happen at the same time.

Also, if you were an OSR GM, your first thought would have been "Fuck, those cities must have crashed SOMEWHERE."

QuoteThere's a bunch of tables for generating random caves, tunnels, contents and different encounter tables for each level. This section is very useful but the random encounter tables are strange. We would expect the encounter tables to get progressively harder as you descend into the underworld, instead they actually get slightly easier as you descend, which is an odd choice.

Again, because I'm 'blatantly ripping-off' Indian mythology, and that's how it is in the mythology.

QuoteRandom quest table bears an unerring resemblance to the one from EoPt(p. 41) but I am inclined to let it go since the quests are very vague and general.

Really? I was thinking Traveller.  What about Caravanserais, did the ancient Indians rip those off of Barker, or me?

QuoteNext comes the monster section and it is bizarre(and not in a good way). People have pointed out the monsters are derivative(goblins, giants etc.) and Pundit retaliates by hiding behind mythological accuracy. He mentions 84 different creatures specifically taken from Indian mythology. What we actually get are 84 creatures, 40 of which are mundane or giant animals, reptiles, vermin or humans(bandits, barbarians etc.). We get giants, goblins, living dead(zombies), animate statues, air deva's(air elemental), earth deva's(guess), Fire Spirits(yup), Ghost ; Bhuta(like a ghost but indian and with the same stats) and skeletons. That's 49 creatures we have seen before, not sufficiently different either mechanically or flavour-wise to qualify as different.

Yeah, its funny how ancient mythologies of all kinds have living dead, goblins, nature spirits, and humans! Crazy.

QuoteWhy isn't the random monstrosity generator(there is a random creature in it, which also doesn't count) used to generate Asura's?

There could have, maybe should have been, a random Asura generator.
I tell you what: I'll write one up if I make an AoI source/setting book at some point, and then you can accuse me of having 'stolen' it from somewhere because its an OSR product and not a game that uses jenga for task-resolution.

QuoteAnother bizarre case is the Preta, a super interesting creature from Hindu myth(looked it up on wiki) that Pundit actually went out of his way to make mechanically identical to a ghoul.

I didn't have to go out of my way. There are a variety of different represenations of pretas in the 3000-year history of Vedic/Brahminical/Buddhist/Hindu religions/cultures, but 'basically ghouls' is one of the most common.

QuoteThis is symptomatic of Arrows of Indra as a whole. It doesn't turn D&D into something cool. It turns something cool into D&D.

AH.
OK.
I didn't think you'd go and out-and-out admit the fundamental flaw in your review, in your general intellectual philosophy as a gamer, and I daresay in your inherent value as a human being: you don't actually think D&D is cool.
Well, kudos for you for coming right out and admitting it. You should probably have just said so up front, rather than lie to people at the start of your review, though.

QuoteIt's almost as if it was made in some kind of alternate universe totalitarian world government controlled by a council of TsR Gygax androids where everything that deviates from the accepted parameters of D&D is ruthlessly supressed.

Good for you. It must have been a relief for you to just admit your hate for D&D. But that's quite a jump, from subtle statement to outright spittle-throwing hatred in just one paragraph.

Quote-The Herb section. (Potion section with the serial numbers filed off). Curing Herb. Endurance Herb(gives con bonus). Herb Against Cold. Herb of Invisibility. Herb of Swiftness.

Yeah, because magical herbs are in no way described in the Vedas, including the Rig Veda, the oldest holy book in the Hindu canon and one of the oldest in the entire world. You know, like Soma.
Oh, and curing herbs. And endurance herbs. And herbs that grant swiftness (though I think that one might actually be in the Atharva Veda; its hard to remember, since there's 107 herbs in the Rig Veda alone, and then more in the Atharva and Yajur Vedas), invisibility (technically, that one isn't from a 'herb' but from a powder derived from a killing, drying and crushing a certain snake).

Quote-Minor Sutra's! Like scrolls only they replicate enlightenment powers(which mostly replicate wizard spells).

Well, I'll admit that making them one-use items is anachronistic. That can be house-ruled though.  You know, "Rulings, not Rules".

Quote-Wonderous Items. Mostly derivative garbage(e.g gauntlets of ogre power in a dress, rope of climbing, plentiful cup that is a decanter of endless something), with a handful of decent items. A flying chariot of the gods. A magic wicker basket with a palace inside that is impregnable against all but the most powerful magic(If it's a Daern's instant fortress clone, it's at least well disguised). A third eye that lets you control winds but not to hurricane strength.

I've skipped over the rest of your bullshit to here, just to point out that the whole deal (that you are assuming is just "ripped off D&D") is actually about "all this shit FITS into the Epic India of myths".  
I mean for fucks' sake, you don't know what a Vimana is, or where it comes from, and you think you qualify to judge this stuff?!

But that's actually beside the point; the point isn't to argue from authority here, but that you fundamentally misunderstand/reject the design goal on the one hand, trying to argue that AoI should be as different as possible from D&D for its own sake even though that's NOT what an OSR game does; and lack the knowledge of the mythology to realize that this isn't just about filing the serial numbers off of D&D but rather showing just how much D&D there is in 3000-year old Indian mythology.

Quote-A magic item and weapon section with an emphasis on bows that is not worth the price of admission but is not actively offensive either. Be prepared to gaze in awe at magic things that inflict 1d6 extra fire damage. A child could have thought of that.

And here is something that so brutally demonstrates your (almost certainly intentional) catastrophic lack/refusal of comprehension.  You gloss over the entire significance of the Bow to Indian heroic culture on the one hand, while on the other complaining about 1d6 fire damage as a mechanic on the other, and not grasping how much of an moron that makes you.  You think tradition is bad, we got that. You think an arrow that requires you to change a plot point or generates a narrative theme would be better than fire damage, and that "scene resolution via tiddlywinks and interpretive dance" is so much more sophisticated than rolling 1d6 for damage, we got that to.  What you don't get is why that explains how utterly vacuous your ideas are, and why my side is winning and yours is losing.

QuoteAnd...close off with a decent overview of major religions. Recent amount of detail is given. No information of Asura princes and their rituals. Lame. Guessing its Unholy acts and perverse reflections of what the gods want. Whatever. Two appendixes, dealing with higher level play(what you would expect in B/X only without siege rules or mass combat) and one detailing future events in the Mahabharata. Not likely to see much use, but more interesting then 80% of the book.

And I love how, in the truest example of the spirit of your utterly unbiased reviewing, you sum up 15 pages of book material and tons of mechanics (divine intervention, divine quests, cost of living, housing, land management, name-level rewards, schools of philosophy, organized crime, merchant/business mechanics, taxation (relatively historically accurate), royal attention, marriage/children and inheritance, crime and punishment (directly taken from the vedic law codes), and a brief but detailed outline of about 20 years of potential campaign history) in a dismissive paragraph.

QuoteOverall, while Arrows of Indra is undeniably functional, it is uninspired, derivative and falsely advertised. Pundit's claims of only having to read the product to get a grip on Mythic India gaming

I think this very review proved the contrary. The fact that you DON'T LIKE that you can run OSR-D&D in the Mythic India setting doesn't disprove the fact that AoI shows you exactly how to do it (well, one way to do it). And since you gloss over or dismiss most of the setting material (a significant chunk of the book) you in fact make no coherent argument as to how or why this would be inadequate for an experienced OSR GM with little to no knowledge of Indian mythology to be able to take AoI and run a successful Epic India setting game.

QuoteThe few nuggets of creativity buried here and there do not save it from a likely unmarked rpg-grave at the bottom of a pit.

Before Bedrock switched companies and had to resubmit it on rpgnow, AoI was a silver bestseller.  In the month or so it's been back on, its already a copper bestseller again.  Its print book sales have been good enough that there's interest in more product (that I don't have time to do right now), and its distribution is good enough that just today Chris Kutalik pointed out to me that AoI is one of the only smaller-print OSR games he's actually seen on FLGS shelves.

Just because you wish I was unsuccessful doesn't make it so.

QuoteI would pay perhaps $3.50 for the setting and underworld sections. The GM section should be free on a blog.

I'm sure Bedrock is hugely interested in your pricing advice.  Meanwhile, the royalty checks I've been getting, as well as the general praise from the OSR, has me crying all the way to the bank.

QuoteMy recommendation is you spend your 10$ on reference works for Indian Mythology(you can read the Mahabharata and probably others online for free btw), download a free copy of labyrinth lord, OSRIC or swords and wizardry, and make your own setting. You can do better then this drivel.

If anyone feels they can, I'd urge them to do so! I certainly don't pretend that I'm the only person who could possibly have made an India-themed OSR book!  I'm just the only one that did.
But you know, if you were to actually write a game, rather than just use it for your own play, I'd suggest doing more than just the Mahabharata (do you even know the names of any other Indian epics? Maybe the Ramayana rings a bell?), and spend a couple of decades studying Indian religions and culture as well as mythology.  
Or then again, maybe not, because then you'll get idiots whose entire repertoire of Indian knowledge comes from curry  houses and bollywood movies trying to tell you there are no goblins in Indian myth.


RPGPundit

Meh. I read, run (and review) everything from Fate to Holmes D&D. My name appears in the credits - twice - of an "rpg" (story game ... that's for Pundit ;) ) that Pundit's said awful things about (Other Worlds). I've also bought, read and run AoI and find it a fun and worthy read and play.

The review's a hack job with an agenda, and not a particularly good one. Folks are entitled their opinion, and that's mine.

Quote from: Molotov;802358Meh. I read, run (and review) everything from Fate to Holmes D&D. My name appears in the credits - twice - of an "rpg" (story game ... that's for Pundit ;) ) that Pundit's said awful things about (Other Worlds). I've also bought, read and run AoI and find it a fun and worthy read and play.

The review's a hack job with an agenda, and not a particularly good one. Folks are entitled their opinion, and that's mine.

I appreciate that! And I'm very happy you found AoI worthwhile!

Considering that he only posted it to fuck with you, 4 out of 10 is a pretty good score!

Man gygax androids would be pretty cool (although i assume he meant robots a gygax android would just be gygax brought back to life with robotics)

Hm lets see construct obvisuly i guess i just need to choose a construct type

Be right back stating gygax

Quote from: One Horse Town;802366Considering that he only posted it to fuck with you, 4 out of 10 is a pretty good score!

Hmm, hadn't thought of that.

Not being 'au fait' with the usual protocols and norms, may I ask a few questions?

1] What is the 'EoPT(ODD)' edition being referred to in this posting? I am not aware of any ODD version of what I assume is Prof. Barker's "Empire of the Petal Throne", originally published by TSR. Phil's game, which I have in both manuscript and play-test versions, as well as the published (TSR, Gamescience, Different Worlds, Tita's) is much more in line with Dave Arneson's work in "Adventures in Fantasy", as well as the earlier "Beyond This Point be Dragons", which has been extensively discussed by both D. Boggs and J. Peterson in various on-line fora.

2] Is the original poster aware of these earlier works? And of the comments made by G. Gygax and D. Arneson on the subject of Prof. Barker's work?

If I may add a few personal observations, based on my time in the game industry and hobby, we stand on the shoulders of giants; for example, the original poster might want to look into the genre of the 'Braunstein", first elaborated by Maj. D. Wesely in his activities in the Midwest Military Simulation Society, back in the late 1960s and early 1970s. I think that the original poster might note some items of interest therein.

I have a copy of "Arrows of Indra"; I bought it - my first RPG purchase in years, I might modestly note - simply because it works as a game and as a evocation of an alien world-setting; alien to most gamers, I think, because of the setting being in classical India. I bought "AoI" for my Tekumel game campaign because it is a good, solid game, and it works quite well for running games set in Tekumel - especially the Tekumel I experienced both in playing in Prof. Barker's original Thursday Night Group over fifteen years and what I published as his publisher, first at Adventure Games and then as a free-lancer.

Phil - he asked me to call him that, as he thought that 'Mohammed Abd Rahman' might be too much for my American tongue to have to deal with, and using the name of the Blessed Prophet in casual usage smacked of disrespect - was never shy about giving credit for the inspiration and ideas that both Dave and Gary provided him; "EPT", he told me, could never have been done without them.

"AoI" builds on the thirty-five years of game development and game-running we've had since those far-off days of yesteryear, when "we made stuff up and had fun". "AoI" builds on the work of the pioneers of the hobby, and does a good job of it, in my opinion, as "AoI" accomplishes exactly what it says it's going to do - provide an OSR-styled RPG set in classical India. The game will port over into the world of the Petal Throne quite nicely, and I bought it on those merits. I've really enjoyed reading it, and I'd be happy to suggest it to players.

- chirine

Quote from: RPGPundit;802335No, its a hate-blog created by an SA-Goon

I don't think there is a Something Awful connection at all. Don't make the mistake of conflating your enemies just because you have a lot of enemies.

Quoteusually filled with 4chan-levels of profanity and adolescent dirty-jokes, that attacks OSR games and game designers.

I think of it as how the The Daily Show is a comedy show, but ironically has some of the better news coverage...imagine if the Daily Show only reported on the OSR, and also Jon Stewart was high from sniffing glue. Hence, "biggest OSR news site." Seriously, it gets the kind of traffic that most OSR bloggers would give their favorite neckroll for.  

QuoteThey have for a long time had a hate-on for Zak, Raggi, and myself in roughly that order (but they often branch out to attack other OSR designers).

I think you might be rating yourself too high; Jmal and that Brave Halfling guy are more on their radar, it's just that those dudes have been really quiet lately.

As someone very fond of rolling 2d6 and getting 8+, as well as interpretative dance and shiny beads, as well as DCC and 5e D&D I suggest you leave it here. The review was trolling and rude. However that is your style as well, so you have made your reply, now walk away.
My disappointment with AOI was that there was too much OSR D&D and not enough of the Indian legends that I know you have from your blogs. That didn't mean it was a bad game since you had clear design goals and a target audience. However it doesn't suit all. I would have liked much less system, a lot more India, some adventures, and better art.
Sometimes this reviewer edged towards that but riling you was the real purpose for him.

Or her..

Quote from: Molotov;802358Meh. I read, run (and review) everything from Fate to Holmes D&D. My name appears in the credits - twice - of an "rpg" (story game ... that's for Pundit ;) ) that Pundit's said awful things about (Other Worlds). I've also bought, read and run AoI and find it a fun and worthy read and play.

The review's a hack job with an agenda, and not a particularly good one. Folks are entitled their opinion, and that's mine.

Hold on there, partner!

You mean it's actually possible to play and enjoy different kinds of games? And doing so doesn't mean you're a mental midget, or person of ill-repute? You mean that I can play OSR games one week, BRP the next, Fiasco one night, Fate the next, Microscope after that, and then bust out some WHFRP 1e the next day, and I'm not going to burn in hell for the cardinal sin of...

Liking Different Things!

???

The mind boggles...

:D

Quote from: tuypo1;802368Man gygax androids would be pretty cool (although i assume he meant robots a gygax android would just be gygax brought back to life with robotics)

Hm lets see construct obvisuly i guess i just need to choose a construct type

Be right back stating gygax

*cough* Cyborg Commandos *cough* ;)

I agree the review is pretty one-dimensional. However, once you look beyond the tone, there's a lot more going on here.

Basically the review is an over the top satire of Pundit's own reviews of certain OSR products in the past:

• Same level of vitriol,
• refusal to engage with the actual content once it's established between writer and reader that there's nothing in the product that repays attention, and
• an incessant reminder to reader that the product is entirely derivative, this being part of the creative bankruptcy of the OSR movement more largely, this
• making the review a foil for an assault on the OSR more widely.

What completes the satire is the author's rejoinder. Instead of being over and above the vitriol, as some of Pundit's victims have been, he nodges it up a couple of steps. Instead of saying how the work is not derivative, he switches to "but being derivative is what the OSR is all about", while offering some pretty irrelevant comments on what is or is not a retroclone (a term the review uses for any systems spin off). To top it off, Pundit has to

• initiate his rejoinder by telling the world that he is not financially as much in the straits as the review made it out to be,
• edit the review's title thread (pretty petty in my book) when that review, content wise, is really not that far from his own in the past, before he decided to jump ship with co-consultants (his overtures to Raggi the review alleges, if only half true, take the biscuit here), and thus
  
• admits that his own reviews, as they are on a par, just as much qualify as overt trolling by his own standards.

Any review that riles up the author, and in the final instance extracts an involuntary concession of moral hypocrycy, has clearly hit a nerve. The analogy to Jon Stewart is very well observed. Mission accomplished, I'd say.

Quote from: misterguignol;802417I think of it as how the The Daily Show is a comedy show, but ironically has some of the better news coverage...imagine if the Daily Show only reported on the OSR, and also Jon Stewart was high from sniffing glue. Hence, "biggest OSR news site." Seriously, it gets the kind of traffic that most OSR bloggers would give their favorite neckroll for.  

Please. You're not "the Daily Show", you're like a White Power Radio Show. Its not news, its just pure unadulterated hate mixed in with invariably asinine, offensive and unsophisticated humor by a gang of semi-illiterates.

QuoteI think you might be rating yourself too high; Jmal and that Brave Halfling guy are more on their radar, it's just that those dudes have been really quiet lately.

And it's pretty clear you're a huge fan of the site, so why stop pretending you're a neutral party in all this?

Quote from: Herne's Son;802436*cough* Cyborg Commandos *cough* ;)

So YOU were the other guy that bought a copy?

Despite whatever information you feel you've picked up sixth hand from email forwards featuring humorous but resiliant cats, you fellas shouldn't talk about 4chan. It just makes you look old and ignorant.  Honestly, anytime anyone here says anything about it they look like someone's dad talking about hip- hop.


@the Butcher ydis guys are here all the time. Two regulars in this thread besides the OP.

I personally don't give two shits about whatever drama goes on between Pundit and his enemies, but I did find this very funny:

Quote from: PrinceofNothing;802169YDIS as a community does not condone the ..., very existence of [RPGPUNDIT]. .

"I don't believe in Pundit."
"It's OK, because he believes in you."

Quote from: Doom;802445So YOU were the other guy that bought a copy?

I still have my boxed set.

Quote from: Gib;802449@the Butcher ydis guys are here all the time. Two regulars in this thread besides the OP.

Glad to hear it. :)

Am I the only person who wants to buy Arrows of Indra because of this review?

Putting aside the polemic and bile and reading between the lines, this does sound like the kind of setting that I would enjoy.

Quote from: CRKrueger;802453I still have my boxed set.

There were three of us????

Quote from: RPGPundit;802444Please. You're not "the Daily Show", you're like a White Power Radio Show. Its not news, its just pure unadulterated hate mixed in with invariably asinine, offensive and unsophisticated humor by a gang of semi-illiterates.

I'm not YDIS. (I hear he's taller.)

The White Power thing is funny though. I'm only aware of a couple posters in the comments on YDIS who hold racist views, but they're routinely mocked ferociously for their ignorance. On other forums those dudes post at their racism is never even brought up.

Also, aren't you the guy who was crying about how you were being painted as a homophobe, yet you used the word "gay" as a pejorative in a post on this very site? Oh, here here's your unconvincing excuse for it: http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?p=799891

Maybe that's not your stone to throw from the glasshaus.

QuoteAnd it's pretty clear you're a huge fan of the site, so why stop pretending you're a neutral party in all this?

I find a lot of the stuff there funny; some of it I feel goes too far. Big whoop

Quote from: PrinceofNothing;802169Copy-pasting does not a good game make...

Given how much he seems to dislike using similar rules, this guy must really hate the various versions of FATE.

Quote from: soltakss;802462Am I the only person who wants to buy Arrows of Indra because of this review?

Putting aside the polemic and bile and reading between the lines, this does sound like the kind of setting that I would enjoy.

Please do it. I'd almost want to offer you a free copy but the whole point would be that this review LITERALLY and DIRECTLY ends up making me money.

Most of the things my opponents do to try to "take me down" only ends up making me more money, but it would be especially funny in this case.

Quote from: misterguignol;802477I'm not YDIS. (I hear he's taller.)

The White Power thing is funny though. I'm only aware of a couple posters in the comments on YDIS who hold racist views, but they're routinely mocked ferociously for their ignorance. On other forums those dudes post at their racism is never even brought up.

Also, aren't you the guy who was crying about how you were being painted as a homophobe, yet you used the word "gay" as a pejorative in a post on this very site? Oh, here here's your unconvincing excuse for it: http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?p=799891

Maybe that's not your stone to throw from the glasshaus.

And wasn't YDIS, who are regularly posting things that are blatantly or implicitly homophobic, the ones who tried to dredge this up yet again (after the consultantgate guys did some time earlier)?  

I continue on a process of evolution, what is your excuse?

QuoteI find a lot of the stuff there funny; some of it I feel goes too far. Big whoop

It is when on other threads you pretend that you're a "neutral party", even though its very clear your role here is to be an instigator and agent.

Quote from: RPGPundit;802508And wasn't YDIS, who are regularly posting things that are blatantly or implicitly homophobic, the ones who tried to dredge this up yet again (after the consultantgate guys did some time earlier)?

Beats me. I don't document everything that gets said there, or pay particular attention to who said what. Hell, I miss entire posts there because I've got stuff going on.

QuoteI continue on a process of evolution, what is your excuse?

I don't need an excuse. Seriously, find something that I said that was homophobic. Then we can talk about what my excuse is.

QuoteIt is when on other threads you pretend that you're a "neutral party", even though its very clear your role here is to be an instigator and agent.

Shit, son, why's everything got to be some shadowy conspiracy with you? I don't have a dog in this fight, like I said, because I have no interest in either EPT or AoI.

What I gave you was the opportunity to say, "These guys are full of shit, here's why the percentage of what they say I copied isn't true." The fact that you haven't addressed that makes me doubtful that you can.

I might make my custom title "Instigator and Agent" now though because that is ballin' swag.

Quote from: misterguignol;802515Beats me. I don't document everything that gets said there, or pay particular attention to who said what. Hell, I miss entire posts there because I've got stuff going on.



I don't need an excuse. Seriously, find something that I said that was homophobic. Then we can talk about what my excuse is.

You hang out on, and are now acting as an agent and messenger-boy for a website that still routinely uses the term "Tranny", and is currently engaged in a riveting debate about whether "Taylor Swift has ever taken it up the bum", and whether she or that "Spic chick from beakman's world" is hotter for being sodomized.

When I criticized the OP (who on the YDIS version of this review used the term "tranny" IN THE REVIEW), their response in the comments section was to claim that I must myself be one (of course, because if not what possible reason could someone have to be supportive of "trannies", right?).

Those are the people you are representing, and unlike this place, which is a forum with a diversity of views, YDIS is a single blog with a community groupthink.

You have NO fucking ground to stand on here in the "offensiveness" department.

Quote from: RPGPundit;802528You have NO fucking ground to stand on here in the "offensiveness" department.

No, I'm only responsible for things I've said. I'm not responsible for anyone else's statements or beliefs.

If I was, you'd be on the hook for the guys here who are homophobic and cry about how they're called bigots because of it. But you're not responsible for them, are you? Why would you be?

Good on you for calling them out as bigots, but I wouldn't hang their bigotry at your doorstep.

For the record, while I'm not transgender, I am "half-spic", as you'd put it.

I want to put that out in the open, before I get accused of some kind of evil subterfuge for something that was known and obvious except to you and your friends at YDIS.

Quote from: misterguignol;802530No, I'm only responsible for things I've said. I'm not responsible for anyone else's statements or beliefs.

You are if you're acting as their messenger-boy and trying to promote their hateful bullshit.

There's a difference between "there's some guy on theRPGsite who might be racist", and "I'm acting as the main representative and shit-slinger for a blog where EVERYONE routinely expresses sexism, racism, and homophobia for shits and giggles and does so as part of their 'site culture'".

Quote from: RPGPundit;802533For the record, while I'm not transgender, I am "half-spic", as you'd put it.

I've never used that word in my life. Or ever thought about your ethnic heritage, for that matter.

Sorry, but your guilt-by-association nonsense isn't sticking. That dog don't hunt.

Quote from: RPGPundit;802536There's a difference between "there's some guy on theRPGsite who might be racist", and "I'm acting as the main representative and shit-slinger for a blog where EVERYONE routinely expresses sexism, racism, and homophobia for shits and giggles and does so as part of their 'site culture'".

I'm not the emissary for YDIS. I'm not their representative, main or otherwise. As far as I know there is no concerted effort, no YDIS-flavored Machiavelli pulling the strings. No one is feeding me lines. Anything I've said here is solely my own expression.

I am not a number, I am a free man! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW-bFGzNMXw)

You're making up your claims about me wholesale.

Seriously, asshole? Do you think I can't read?  I suppose you think I might not stoop to reading the comments section of YDIS, but the fact that I'm quoting the grotesque and disgusting things they're saying there right now should have been a clue to you.

Maybe you didn't read the part where they outed you as their boy?

In any case, I'm going to be extremely generous: You claim to be a neutral third party with no interest or particular concern in this fight. That was your claim. So I'm going to assume that is the case.  You also said you never read AoI (or at least that you don't own it).  So let's presume that to. You imply you have no personal beef with me. Fine and dandy.

In that case, get the fuck out of the "magic in AoI" thread, because you don't have anything to say and are not interested in the subject.  You are neutral and not partisan, therefore have no reason to stir up conflict, and you have no familiarity or expertise with the system, and thus can't be of help with the subject matter.  And if you're really disinterested and not acting out of a deep resentment-based personal hatred for me, you'll have no particular reason to just hang around on a thread about a game you don't own and have no stake in.

And get the fuck out of this thread, for exactly the same reasons.

If you don't, I will be forced to assume you are a lying sack of shit, you have an enormous personal interest and a tremendous personal stake in 'taking me down' for whatever fucking reason, and are therefore engaging in site disruption on behalf of YDIS.

Your call.

I haven't been interested in AoI yet, but that spell chain with escalating pre-requisites (write current language, write old language, control of self etc.) sounds a lot like Midgard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midgard_%28role-playing_game%29) - which has also started out as a derivative of EPT (the "zero"th edition from 1979 was originally 20 typewritten (!) pages of house-rules for EPT) before it became a slightly more original stand-alone game in 1981. Since then it has soldiered on, with no one crying out the similarities to M.A.R. Barkers game.

Maybe YDIS should start a witchhunt against it too. I'm certain it could use the sales boost ;)

Quote from: soltakss;802462Am I the only person who wants to buy Arrows of Indra because of this review?

I wasn't particularly interested in it until I read this thread. Now I want to check it out.

Quote from: misterguignol;802477I'm not YDIS. (I hear he's taller.)

The White Power thing is funny though. I'm only aware of a couple posters in the comments on YDIS who hold racist views, but they're routinely mocked ferociously for their ignorance. On other forums those dudes post at their racism is never even brought up.

Also, aren't you the guy who was crying about how you were being painted as a homophobe, yet you used the word "gay" as a pejorative in a post on this very site? Oh, here here's your unconvincing excuse for it: http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?p=799891

Maybe that's not your stone to throw from the glasshaus.



I find a lot of the stuff there funny; some of it I feel goes too far. Big whoop

i think you will find that most peoples problems with that were not that he used the word gay but that he insulted one on one gaming you and pundit seem to be the only people who think the outrage there was about the gay sure there were a few but for the most part it was about the gaming itself

Quote from: misterguignol;802537I've never used that word in my life. Or ever thought about your ethnic heritage, for that matter.

Sorry, but your guilt-by-association nonsense isn't sticking. That dog don't hunt.

i thought about his ethnic heritage when i wondered what time zone uragray was in does that count

Quote from: tuypo1;802589i think you will find that most peoples problems with that were not that he used the word gay but that he insulted one on one gaming you and pundit seem to be the only people who think the outrage there was about the gay sure there were a few but for the most part it was about the gaming itself


i thought about his ethnic heritage when i wondered what time zone uragray was in does that count

No we all though the issue was about the use of "gay" but its common parlance and I often find my self about to say it in conversation and five years ago I would have done so with little thought.

Anyway Pundit has been entirely trolled the entire review thread was aimed to get a reaction and it worked. If Pundit had shaken it off or addressed it with more humour he could have gotten away with it. He didn't as the Pundit doesn't really do humour and hates personal attacks (ironic considering it's an internet construct).
Through releasing product under the Pundit pseudonym attacks on Pundit which could be ignored or even courted to generate hits have become attacks on the man behind Pundit and that stings.
Baited, trapped exposed this thread falls into the OP's hand entirely.

Finally in defense of misterguignol. We don't see eye to eye on much (I did at one point advise him to gouge said eyes out with a spoon if he didn't want to read my posts) but he is a genuine poster, he posts useful content, see gothic theme stuff, and whilst he might be a little acidic and has a nasty sting there is no way he is a sleeper agent, sock-puppet, or any such thing and any moves to ban him or any other poster for speaking their mind and pointing out what they see are issues is ENTIRELY AGAINST THE PRINCIPLES OF THIS SITE.
The man behind the Pundit needs to step back disengage their ego and take a look at the actual evidence here. Attacks against Pundit's products or even attacks against the Pundit persona can be addressed, ignored, mocked, but not result in the banning of the poster because that way lies TYRANNY.

hm i guess i must have misinterprated people reactions to the thread then

oh yep i see it now i have no idea how i managed to so badly misread the reactions the first time

Quote from: RPGPundit;802545In that case, get the fuck out of the "magic in AoI" thread, because you don't have anything to say and are not interested in the subject.  You are neutral and not partisan, therefore have no reason to stir up conflict, and you have no familiarity or expertise with the system, and thus can't be of help with the subject matter.  And if you're really disinterested and not acting out of a deep resentment-based personal hatred for me, you'll have no particular reason to just hang around on a thread about a game you don't own and have no stake in.

And get the fuck out of this thread, for exactly the same reasons.

If you don't, I will be forced to assume you are a lying sack of shit, you have an enormous personal interest and a tremendous personal stake in 'taking me down' for whatever fucking reason, and are therefore engaging in site disruption on behalf of YDIS.

Your call.

Wow, that's powerful stuff.

I refer to the absinthe-and-yerba-mate concoction Pundit must be drinking lately, of course.



I do have Arrows of Indra; I hope I don't need to attach it to a lanyard and wear it around my neck in order to have access to this thread.

No, I just can't stand assholes who say "I have no dog in this fight" when they very clearly do.

In forum terms, they're probably the only people worse than the stupid fuckers who go on a thread to loudly proclaim they're above it all and that they're too busy to engage in whatever discussion is happening and how much better they are than anyone else for showing up and telling everyone how little they care.

well i would say those that post links to shock images would be lower then either of those

Also i should point out this is a sockpuppet.


[ADMIN EDIT- text removed to make clear that further sockpuppetry/YDIS-trolling will not be profitable as a way to circumvent a ban and participate in conversation.  Just about everything posted in the removed section that wasn't just extra heaped-on insult is ALREADY written stuff the troll just cut-and-pasted, right here on theRPGsite, and you can find it right here (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=31137) (before anyone accuses me of some kind of cover up)].

Stop wasting my life Prince of Nothing. This is 1 minute i won't get back.

you know im still not sure what a storygame is

also i find it funny that Prince of Nothing is saying that unlike pundit he is not making money off it when he is not making money from him anyway the arsehole pirated it

Quote from: RPGPundit;802631No, I just can't stand assholes who say "I have no dog in this fight" when they very clearly do.

That's fair on general principle.  Probably an oversimplification, of course.

I still think you'd be better off easing up on the 'fellow traveler' ranting and actually addressing your critics on the AoI matter straight-on.  But I'm not sure that's possible any longer, as invested as you seem to be in shouting and playing the victim.

Quote from: Truth;802667Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

That's a big wall of text you put up there. I'd find it helpful if you clearly state what you think the topic at hand actually is. Include a thesis statement. Maybe put it in bold text.

Also as a side note, angry as you are at games that are derivative you must really hate Fate and all its various derivatives. Do you rant about those as well?

Speaking of derivative, Paizo's current empire is built upon the back of WoTC's OGL. I find it amusing that people mock the OSR often but never mention Pathfinder. I mean, c'mon, give me a break.

Quote from: VectorSigma;802673That's fair on general principle.  Probably an oversimplification, of course.

I still think you'd be better off easing up on the 'fellow traveler' ranting and actually addressing your critics on the AoI matter straight-on.  But I'm not sure that's possible any longer, as invested as you seem to be in shouting and playing the victim.

I'm not playing the victim, they're playing at being impartial disinterested parties.  
There is nothing to address, because it is very clear that there is no legitimate criticism coming from them, and no answer that will 'address' anything for them, because their goal is not to get to some kind of truth or written out of interest in any process, but is just a blatant and meaningless attack on someone they envy and despise.  

You don't try to play nice and reason with someone who's only goal and only motive is to destroy you out of impotent frustration-rage.

Quote from: Bren;802675That's a big wall of text you put up there. I'd find it helpful if you clearly state what you think the topic at hand actually is. Include a thesis statement. Maybe put it in bold text.

Also as a side note, angry as you are at games that are derivative you must really hate Fate and all its various derivatives. Do you rant about those as well?

I appreciate your point, but please don't encourage a banned troll from continuing to try to circumvent his ban and keep disrupting this site.

Quote from: RPGPundit;802732I appreciate your point, but please don't encourage a banned troll from continuing to try to circumvent his ban and keep disrupting this site.

Sorry. I missed that they were banned.

oh wow jdis is not even a forum its just a shitty blog

Funny how PrinceOfNothing posts a poisonous and hate-filled review and misterguignol cops it big time.

Must be part of one of the very many internet arguments that simply pass me by.

I really should pay more attention to who hates who, who slags off people in other forums and who is an areshole on one forum but a saint on another.

You can get banned here?
Shit, I'm off.. Or am I?
I have to say this entire thread has really made me rethink my views of this place.. New boss, same as the old boss comes to mind
.

Quote from: tzunder;802897You can get banned here?

Getting banned is easy.

Quote from: tzunder;802897I have to say this entire thread has really made me rethink my views of this place.. New boss, same as the old boss comes to mind

SSDD

Quote from: tzunder;802897You can get banned here?
Shit, I'm off.. Or am I?
I have to say this entire thread has really made me rethink my views of this place.. New boss, same as the old boss comes to mind
.

Quote from: soltakss;802938Getting banned is easy.



SSDD

I know of at least one or two general forums out there where it is really difficult to catch a ban, but aside from /tg/ (4chan's RPG Forum) which is far more cordial than this place, as a rule, I don't think there is a RPG forum without crazy rules based on someone's bullshit masquerading as enlightenment. Gamers are oversensitive drama whores; no surprise there.