Ok, see many of us remember the days of WEG d6 Star Wars. Those were the good old days when a game actually captured the feel of SW and Jedi. Then came along the two d20 versions of SW and all of that changed. I didn't care much for either of the first two d20 versions because it just didn't feel like SW and Jedi didn't feel Jedi-like.

So I decided to give Saga edition a try. All I can say is, WOW, now here is a SW RPG d6 and d20 fans can agree is really great. Now, I can't go into a comparison between this version and Wizards previous two because it was quite some time ago the last time I read/played the old versions. So here is what I though of Saga:

#1- Love the look of the book. The gold shadowed Vader on the front looks good. I like the 9X9 format, having smaller hands it is easier to hold. Surprisingly despite being a smaller book, it pack a lot of info in there. I'm convinced that Saga edition is one of the most complete RPG books around.

#2- The new skill system is smashing hit with me. Less skills, no "skill ranks" to buy, and the "trained" rules absolutely rock. If your character is "trained" in a skill you get an automatic +5. WHAT? A character actually being capable at first level? Seems to be a new concept. It's really a great rule.

#3- The Force rules are excellent. I finally can make characters that actually fit my idea of what a Jedi is. The "Use the Force" skill is a big winner, you automatically gain some basic Jedi powers just by selecting it. Plus, if you take the "force training" feat you select 1+ your wis modifier more Force abilities. I loke the way Force points can be used and the force abilities really do a good job of mirroring the SW universe's concept.

#4- The Droid construction rules are really good. You can build basically any type of droid and use it as a PC.

#5-Swift actions rock. You can take one Standard, one move, and one swift action in a turn. Another option is you can take 3 swift actions.

#6- I really never liked the damage system in previouse editions, but I really like the Damage track and HP system used in Saga. It's my opinion that Saga's version better simulates the difference between injury, fatigue, and stamina than previous system. Two thumbs up!

#7- The rules for creating NPCs are nice, simple, and dirty quick. Just the way I like them. It also has stats for a lot of the more common NPCs players may cross in games.

#8- Charagen is great. I think I rolled up 5 Jedi characters and a few others in less than an hour and a half.

#9- You get to raise TWO abilities every 4 levels instead of one. Yes, the power level of SW RPG just went up. I see this as a good thing since the charactes in SW are supposed to be heroes.

#10- I have seen people mention that you get a lot more feats in Saga. On the surface that's true. In reality, its not. Yes, the total number of feats your character gets over his life time will be more than in previous editions. However, the only way to gain a new skill is to take the "skill training" feat, so you will be burning some of those feats to get more "trained" skills.

In the end I could not be more happy than I am with Saga edition. If you were disapointed with any of the previous d20, give Saga a try.  

That skill thing sounds like they ripped a lot of it from Blue Rose, which I noticed was missing in 'True20'.

Got some mixed feelings about it, mind you, but I call it like I see it.

Quote from: SpikeThat skill thing sounds like they ripped a lot of it from Blue Rose, which I noticed was missing in 'True20'.

IIRC, Blue Rose came out (teehee) in 2005, whereas Unearthed Arcana 3E, which introduced a similar mechanism, was published in 2004.
Second, we're not talking about nuclear fission here. This is a pretty obvious modification of the skill system.

And even if it were a straight rip, isn't that what the OGL is all about? You declare your rules as open content, get the credit in the license section of the publication using your system and we're all fine and dandy.

Any actual play comments?

I am curious how fast combat runs.

Also, what's a swift action? Would you please provide an example.

Thanks!

Eric

Quote from: SosthenesIIRC, Blue Rose came out (teehee) in 2005, whereas Unearthed Arcana 3E, which introduced a similar mechanism, was published in 2004.
Second, we're not talking about nuclear fission here. This is a pretty obvious modification of the skill system.

And even if it were a straight rip, isn't that what the OGL is all about? You declare your rules as open content, get the credit in the license section of the publication using your system and we're all fine and dandy.

Hey, I just point out similarities, I don't make judgement calls. For all I know, WotC headhunted from Green Ronin to develop SAGA. It's not like there is a huge geographic barrier... both are roughly local to Seattle.


Man, I gotta work on my communication skills. Every time I point out something like 'Apple Juice tastes like Apples' people seem to assume I'm accusing someone of something. :confused:

Quote from: SpikeMan, I gotta work on my communication skills. Every time I point out something like 'Apple Juice tastes like Apples' people seem to assume I'm accusing someone of something. :confused:

Well, the "mixed feelings" comment certainly made you seem like there might be something fishy going on.

Quote from: enelsonAny actual play comments?

I am curious how fast combat runs.

Also, what's a swift action? Would you please provide an example.

Thanks!

Eric

Well combat is going to run a little shorter than standard d20. This is due to the threshold mechanic. If a character takes more damage than their threshold in one blow, they are knocked out. Your threshold is equal to your fortitude defense + armor fortitude (if it has any). It generally works out to be about half your HP.

Swift actions are just actions that take less time than a standard action or a move action. I don't have my book with me know, but IIRC you can sub swift actions for move or standard actions. I think some force powers use swift actions. Basically, you are getting an extra action/ turn. You can use 3 swift actions in a turn to recover 1 level on the condition track.

Quote from: SpikeThat skill thing sounds like they ripped a lot of it from Blue Rose, which I noticed was missing in 'True20'.

Got some mixed feelings about it, mind you, but I call it like I see it.

I don't remmeber what how skills work in Blue Rose but:

In Saga edition if you are trained you get a +5 + stat+ level= bonus

So a first level character trained  in a skill with a 17 for the stat would have a  +9, I think.

Off the top of my head, in Blue Rose you either knew how to do a skill or you didn't, and you spent Feats for more skills. Maybe not exclusively, but the mechanism was certainly there. No skill point distribution. I couldn't tell you off the top of my head what the math looked like, however.

I DO know I sort of missed that when I bought True20.  Not just that, but the fact was True20 felt a LOT more like regular 3.5 with alternate classes to me, rather than a stripped down, lean mean gaming machine like the true heart and soul of Blue Rose... Lord Knows it wasn't the setting.

Hmm, I continously manage to mis-remember that, but didn't the first PDF edition of True20 have different skill rules?

That, I couldn't tell you. I only have the hardback true20 book and the Blue Rose book...

The PDF shall forever remain a mystery to me.

Quote from: SpikeOff the top of my head, in Blue Rose you either knew how to do a skill or you didn't, and you spent Feats for more skills. Maybe not exclusively, but the mechanism was certainly there. No skill point distribution. I couldn't tell you off the top of my head what the math looked like, however.

I DO know I sort of missed that when I bought True20.  Not just that, but the fact was True20 felt a LOT more like regular 3.5 with alternate classes to me, rather than a stripped down, lean mean gaming machine like the true heart and soul of Blue Rose... Lord Knows it wasn't the setting.

Ahh.... but in Saga you can use most of the skills untrained.:haw:

Quote from: McrowI don't remmeber what how skills work in Blue Rose but:

In Saga edition if you are trained you get a +5 + stat+ level= bonus

So a first level character trained  in a skill with a 17 for the stat would have a  +9, I think.

+8.

+3 stat, +5 training, +0 level bonus. The level bonus is 1/2 your character level (rounded down, natch)


[edit: that puts the first level Saga character on par with a typical D&D first-level character putting four ranks in a skill]

Quote from: McrowAhh.... but in Saga you can use most of the skills untrained.:haw:

Another thing I like about Saga -- there are both trained and untrained uses of nearly every skill.

So seeing as how my local gamestore doesn't stock much (and how I don't really like paying list/cover price) anyone have links to good online prices for this one?