CURRENT PLAYERS
Stormbringer - Sgt Llewellyn (Link)
Sir Wulf - Lady Jastian (Link)
Opaopajr - Cudberct (Link)
Josh - Winthrop Porter (Link)
Tom - Gileus Darfin (Lady Jastian's Cohort) (Link)

FOLLOWERS (1st level)
Fenyx4 - Aminda Scroppings (Link)
Tanthius - Hasor Turrell (Link)
Greyknight - Certh the Baker (Link)
Warclam - Haddon Bania (Link)

WAITING LIST

INCOMMUNICADO / DROPPED
Foxtrot
jibbajibba
Castellan
DonEsteban


MARCHING ORDER (5 ft. between ranks)
RANK 1: Lady Jastian - Sgt Llewellyn
RANK 2: Haddon - Ashur
RANK 3: Winthrop - Certh
RANK 4: Gileus - Hasor
RANK 5: Cudberct - Aminda

WATCH LIST (4 hours per watch)
Watch 1: Cudberct - Lady Jastian
Watch 2: Winthrop - Gileus
Watch 3: Hasor - Sgt. Llewellyn
Watch 4: Ashur/Haddon - Aminda

POST FREQUENCY: Players should check the IC and OOC threads at least once every 48 hours (preferably once ever 24 hours) and post something (an action, a line of dialogue, a silent reaction, a question, whatever).


WAGON (2 Light Horses - Maximum Capacity 3,000 lbs.)
Rations (144 days) - 144 lbs.
Perishable Food (55 days) - 55 lbs.
Horse Feed (22 days) - 220 lbs.
Saddlebags (3) - 24 lbs.
Tower Shield - 45 lbs.
Shortspear (3) - 9 lbs.
10' Pole - 8 lbs.
Torches (20) - 20 lbs.
Bucket - 16 lbs.
Oil ( - 8 lbs.
Water Skins (4) - 32 lbs.
Barrel of Water - 290 lbs.
Barrel of Wine - 290 lbs.
Bedroll (4) - 20 lbs.
Backpack* - 5.5 lbs. + 9.5 lbs.
Locked Chest** - 25 lbs. + 88.5 lbs.
Climbing Sack*** - 0.5 lbs. + 34 lbs.
Basket**** - 1 lb. + 17 lbs.
Wand of Cure Light Wounds

* Bedroll (5 lbs.), Lamp (1 lb.), Chalk (x2), Soap (1 lb.), Signal Whistle, Mirror (0.5 lbs.), Peasant Pajamas (2 lb.)

** Banded Mail (35 lbs.), Heavy Wooden Shield (10 lbs.), Longsword (4 lbs.), Morningstar (6 lbs.), Dagger (x4, 4 lbs.), Shovel (8 lbs.), Hammer (2 lbs.), Pick (10 lbs.), Whetstone (1 lb.), Arrows (x50, 7.5 lbs.), Lock (1 lb.)

*** Climber's Kit (x2, 20 lbs.), Grappling Hook (4 lbs.), Hemp Rope (50', 10 lbs.)

**** Iron Pot (10 lbs.), Flour (x5, 5 lbs.), Sacks (x4, 2 lbs.)

PATITA (Guard Dog)

WARHORSE, LIGHT - GILEUS
Saddle military - 30 lbs.
Bit & Bridle - 1 lb.
Waterskin - 4 lbs.

WARHORSE, LIGHT - CERTH
Saddle military - 30 lbs.
Bit & Bridle - 1 lb.
Waterskin - 4 lbs.

WARHORSE, LIGHT - CUDBERCT (Buñuelo)
Saddle military - 30 lbs.
Short Spear (3) - 9 lbs.
Leather Barding - 15 lbs.
Bit & Bridle - 1 lb.
Waterskin - 4 lbs.

HORSE, LIGHT - HASOR (Notos)


What are we doing? Mr. GC has claimed that "basketweavers" -- i.e., non-optimized characters -- cannot play D&D. The opposing contention is that it is absolutely trivial for a group of non-optimized characters to play D&D, particularly if they're adventuring in an open sandbox that allows them to select the challenges they want to face at any given moment.

In order to simulate that scenario, we'll be using Mr. GC's character guidelines for creating a party of "basketweavers". This particular party of "basketweavers" has selected as their adventure The Sunless Citadel.

Here's the character creation rules, as set forth by Mr. GC:

Party of 4.
Level 7, 32 Point Buy, 19000 gp.
PCs are restricted to the following classes: Adept, Aristocrat, Barbarian, CA Ninja, Commoner, CW Samurai, Expert, Fighter (dungeoncrasher or not), Healer, Hexblade, Knight, Marshal, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Scout, Soulknife, Spellthief, Swashbuckler, Warlock, Warmage, Warrior.

Sources are restricted to 3.5 books that are non-campaign specific and non-weather based.

The version of The Sunless Citadel I'll be using is slightly modified from the original, but not in any way that would reduce the challenge.

"Win" Conditions:

(1) Completing four encounters in a row without resting overnight.
(2) Completing the adventure.
(3) Having fun.

The PCs win if any of these conditions are met during play.

Stormbringer has already voiced interest in running the PCs. If others are interested in jumping onboard, he'll relinquish whichever number of seats is necessary.

I'll let this sit for a couple days for recruitment purposes (answering any questions people might have), then we'll post characters and get started. It's been a long, long time since I did any forum or PBeM gaming, so we'll see how this goes.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;596771Level 7, 32 Point Buy, 19000 gp.
PCs are restricted to the following classes: Adept, Aristocrat, Barbarian, CA Ninja, Commoner, CW Samurai, Expert, Fighter (dungeoncrasher or not), Healer, Hexblade, Knight, Marshal, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Scout, Soulknife, Spellthief, Swashbuckler, Warlock, Warmage, Warrior.

Did you mean to exclude the use of prestige classes?

I'd like to play - does "forum-based" mean all game communications will be through a forum like this one?

F

I'm in!  Most of that stuff up there has little to no meaning for me, though.  I will puzzle some stuff out and see if anyone can look things over for me before we start.  What better way to create a 'useless' party than someone with very little 3.x experience?  

In order to avoid accusations of bias when the characters are posted, I think it would be best to have a non-involved party critique them, then Mr Alexander can accept or reject any particular character.  Of course, if no one objects, I would more than welcome Mr Alexander's input.  I believe the characters Bloody Stupid Johnson made on the predecessor thread were acceptable on the first pass?  If so, I can start with those and build forward from there.

I am also very interested in joining.

Quote from: Sir Wulf;596941I am also very interested in joining.

Welcome to theRPGsite!  I would be glad to have you in this doomed expedition!  

Quote from: Justin Alexander;596771What are we doing? Mr. GC has claimed that "basketweavers" -- i.e., non-optimized characters -- cannot play D&D. The opposing contention is that it is absolutely trivial for a group of non-optimized characters to play D&D, particularly if they're adventuring in an open sandbox that allows them to select the challenges they want to face at any given moment.

In order to simulate that scenario, we'll be using Mr. GC's character guidelines for creating a party of "basketweavers". This particular party of "basketweavers" has selected as their adventure The Sunless Citadel.

Here's the character creation rules, as set forth by Mr. GC:

Party of 4.
Level 7, 32 Point Buy, 19000 gp.
PCs are restricted to the following classes: Adept, Aristocrat, Barbarian, CA Ninja, Commoner, CW Samurai, Expert, Fighter (dungeoncrasher or not), Healer, Hexblade, Knight, Marshal, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Scout, Soulknife, Spellthief, Swashbuckler, Warlock, Warmage, Warrior.

Sources are restricted to 3.5 books that are non-campaign specific and non-weather based.

The version of The Sunless Citadel I'll be using is slightly modified from the original, but not in any way that would reduce the challenge.

"Win" Conditions:

(1) Completing four encounters in a row without resting overnight.
(2) Completing the adventure.
(3) Having fun.

The PCs win if any of these conditions are met during play.

Stormbringer has already voiced interest in running the PCs. If others are interested in jumping onboard, he'll relinquish whichever number of seats is necessary.

I'll let this sit for a couple days for recruitment purposes (answering any questions people might have), then we'll post characters and get started. It's been a long, long time since I did any forum or PBeM gaming, so we'll see how this goes.

I'm not familiar enough with 3.5 to play, but I'll follow this thread. Good idea.

Quote from: Imperator;596954I'm not familiar enough with 3.5 to play, but I'll follow this thread. Good idea.

I think that is a good reason to join in!  

I don't understand how this is proving anything.

Sunless citadel was the first 3.0 adventure. Why wouldn't any basic group be able to complete it?

You most certainly don't need a wizard, sorcerer, cleric or druid to make it through 4 encounters.

Quote from: Sir Wulf;596923Did you mean to exclude the use of prestige classes?

Yup. That's a straight-up copy-paste from Mr. GC's guidelines.

Quote from: Foxtrot;596929I'd like to play - does "forum-based" mean all game communications will be through a forum like this one?

Yup. Whole thing will play out in this thread. (You can also use PMs if you need to communicate privately for some reason, but I don't anticipate that coming up in this scenario.)

Looks like the current player roster stands at: Foxtrot, Sir Wulf, and StormBringer.

Quote from: ValisI don't understand how this is proving anything.

Sunless citadel was the first 3.0 adventure. Why wouldn't any basic group be able to complete it?

GC returned to the original thread, stating (in his subtle fashion) that the chosen adventure wouldn't pose an appropriate challenge to 7th level characters.

I relish the challenge of showing that challenges can be overcome through skill and determination instead of obsessive optimization, but I would appreciate more information about Justin's plan for the game.

EDIT:  After I posted this, I saw Justin's comments in the other thread...  (what timing...)

Quote from: Sir Wulf;596963GC returned to the original thread, stating (in his subtle fashion) that the chosen adventure wouldn't pose an appropriate challenge to 7th level characters.

Well, of course he does. He thinks the only way to play D&D is to face an endless sequence of encounters against solo monsters with an EL 1 higher than the party's APL that are somehow miraculously getting an extra +15 to +20 bonus to hit above what the stat blocks in the Monster Manual say. In the land of spherical cows, this guy is a circle.

In actual practice, I think this "test" has all the relevance of disproving somebody who thinks you can't walk down a street during daylight hours because the only way to really walk down the street is in the moonlight. The claim is so wacky that it doesn't really need to be disproved and the guy making the claim is so delusional that watching someone walk down the street in sunlight isn't going to dissuade him from the claim that it's impossible.

But I do think it'll be an interesting and different way of experiencing D&D. And I think it'll be fun.

StormBringer joked in the other thread about building an entire party of commoners. I think that could be really interesting. Or maybe a party of warrior, expert, commoner, and healer (from the Miniatures Handbook) -- just a group of concerned locals who volunteer to try to solve the problem. Or maybe commoners and experts who have signed up with an itinerant paladin who's leading them to clear out the local den on iniquity. Or an entire party of monks who are seeking the ancient wisdom of the monastic dragons. Or a party of swashbucklers and spellthiefs who were crewing a pirate ship when the entire ship was teleported to the town square of Oakhurst during a battle with a magi-kraken. Or whatever.

I don't think you should intentionally create a party to fail, but I do think you should embrace the opportunity to play something really unusual and see what happens.

I had a few character concepts I was considering...

Lady Jastian Wyverntongue (Human Marshal 7)
- Confident Aristocrat

Raptor (Wood Elf Fighter 4/Ranger 3)
- Reclusive Archer

Bjork Drakarhelm (Dwarven Rogue 7)
- Merciless Tomb Raider

Tain Takhol (Tiefling rogue 3/healer 3)
- Melancholy Outcast

Do any of these four appeal to you guys?

Quote from: Justin Alexander;596970StormBringer joked in the other thread about building an entire party of commoners. I think that could be really interesting. Or maybe a party of warrior, expert, commoner, and healer (from the Miniatures Handbook) -- just a group of concerned locals who volunteer to try to solve the problem. Or maybe commoners and experts who have signed up with an itinerant paladin who's leading them to clear out the local den on iniquity. Or an entire party of monks who are seeking the ancient wisdom of the monastic dragons. Or a party of swashbucklers and spellthiefs who were crewing a pirate ship when the entire ship was teleported to the town square of Oakhurst during a battle with a magi-kraken. Or whatever.

I was only half-joking; I find the idea of regular folk taking on these challenges interesting as well.  I wasn't sure if the idea would be popular enough to garner interest, though, and so would be more than happy to take on all or most of the 'NPCs', if others want to play the Paladin, Wizard, or whatever.  Otherwise, I will work on six commoner types; probably two or maybe three warriors, several straight commoners, an expert and a healer.  I will need some assistance with the healer, my access to 3.x supplements is quite severely limited.

QuoteI don't think you should intentionally create a party to fail, but I do think you should embrace the opportunity to play something really unusual and see what happens.

Absolutely.  I don't want to play a comedy of errors, but something a bit more gritty, something closer to ground level would be enjoyable.

Although it is obvious from his argumentation style that Mr. GC will reject any and all evidence by some bullshit excuse ("those spherical cows weren't perfectly spherical", or "they moooed, had horns and produced milk, but they sure weren't cows"), it's an interesting experiment. Let's see it!