Desperately hoping there is no way this thread can become controversial.

In most zombie scenarios, seen in many movies and acted out in various games, the zombies spread their infection through contact with living victims. They attack, the victim then contracts the virus or whatever and at some point later dies and is resurrected or in some fiction simply turns.

In either of these scenarios Ive always had trouble imagining how the virus manages to spread when most victims we see of zombie attack are savaged, torn apart, or even eaten. What is there left alive to carry on the contagion?

Granted some of the zombies appearing display gruesome wounds, missing limbs, disembowelments etc. but the vast majority are more or less intact so what gives? Do zombies have a limited appetite, satiated after a bite or two? Do they lose interest once the victim dies, often leaving them alone after the kill stroke? Would a hoard of zombies attack a victim, initially tear into them but then somehow get distracted and leave the mangled but essentially intact corpse to resurrect or in the case of the infected, lie there in agony until they turn?

In every zombie game we have played we have haggled over this point. In a recent game involving Ragers (the running infected crazy ass murdering psycho type zombies instead of the undead) such as is depicted in "28 Days later" and "28 Weeks", the infected would attack anyone without the virus and we had to wonder how, after the things beat, gouged, eviscerated and devoured their victims, anyone was ever left to carry on the infection. Plugging in some sort of limitation that would end the attack after a few vicious moments to allow the victim to survive and therefore be turned, seemed odd.

What do you guys think? What element is missing here. How are the many zombies/runners we see in the film created if their kind is so destructive to their victims? If its a result of being splattered second hand by infectious fluids then it would seem the spread would be far slower and less likely than is depicted in films.

This might sound like a cop-out, but personally, I try to not look to close at the "why" behind stuff in the zombie genre, just seems to fall apart fast.  Unless the game was about finding out why and stopping the infection, most normal folk trying to survive the night (or long term) probably won't ever know the why behind it all.  There's no reason to.  

Now to just spitball ideas for you.  The success rate of a single zombie taking down someone must be pretty low.  I imagine that there would be more people who would get either bitten or scratched (if that's another way the infection spreads), or any of the other ways it could spread- sharing drug needles, blood born pathogens, sexually transmitted, using a public toilet seat, ect.  

Also, if the zombies just eat the living, or if the eating is by-product of them just wanting to spread the infection- they would have to sense living from dead.  Maybe at some point they no longer sense that the body they are snacking on is alive, so they move on.

Good questions, and something I've dealt with a lot.

For me, I start with..."Do zombies eat? And if so, why?"

If they eat, then zombies need to be tougher and there needs to be a reason why some people turn without become a snack. In D&D, its necromancy. AKA, the zombies are created undead and don't make more by biting.

If the zombies only "bite until the victim dies", then you have zombies that have some tie to heart rate/blood pumping.

In these cases, you would have lots of messed up zombies shambling about.

There are quite a few reasons why zombie apocalypses as normally depicted fall apart under any real scrutiny. Most outbreaks wouldn't spread like they are shown to do, and even if they did your typical zombie couldn't survive more than a few weeks at best. And of course nearly everyone glosses over how zombies that can be killed by a handful of survivors with shotguns and pistols are able to overrun the military every single time. So, like with most fantastical games, you really need to suspend your disbelief and just have fun with it when it comes to zombie stuff.

For my own group, the one zombie game I ran used an "everyone is infected" approach seen in several stories like The Walking Dead. The virus I used came from space during a meteor shower, so major outbreaks occurred simultaneously across the globe. Those exposed to the virus got violently ill and eventually died after about a week, at which time they turned. A small portion (about 1 in 50 in the US) of the population was immune and survived, but some types of zombies carried a mutated form of the virus they could deliver with their bite so survivors could still be infected with that and turned.

Not exactly. In the classics of the genre (notably Romero's "Dead" series, and the Walking Dead comics/show) being bitten has little to nothing to do with the infection. These stories present the notion that somehow, -everyone- is infected. That's a big theme of the original Romero movies, that nobody knows why the dead are rising, and spend a ton of time arguing about why it happened rather than dealing with the immediate problem of the flesh-eating corpses roaming the street. Anyone who dies, returns as a "zombie" (or "ghoul" or "walker"). If you're killed by a gunshot, or get your back broken by falling off a ladder, or just keel over and croak from a heart-attack, you come back as a monster.

However, this is compounded by the notion that being bitten, scratched, or otherwise wounded by one of the dead will kill you. Something in the zombie's metanormal metabolism infects you with a poison that causes you to quickly sicken and die. I would imagine it's something to do with the normal breakdown of the human tissue after death, and the rather disgusting things that liquefaction and decay can do to the body (EG: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adipocere). Essentially, the bite or scratch introduces infectious disease into the living victim, causing infection, gangrene, or other disease. And then the victim dies from the infection of the diseased matter, and rises as a zombie because he's already infected with whatever is causing the dead to walk anyway.

Ya, good question, your criticism is sound, and I'd mainly echo what the others have said:

1. Many zombie apocalypse stories make very little sense and wouldn't happen the way their stories have them happen.

2. Some zombie apocalypse stories involve some event that zombifies most people not by violent zombie attack, usually quickly before most people have a chance to react, and possibly also later, due to infections. (Another example in a film you asked about, 28 weeks, was a drop of blood getting in someone's eye not even during combat.)

Also, usually the standard for an operational zombie is a lot less than for a living human, though that only goes so far in making sense.

In some zombie fiction, the zombie event also raises most/all of the buried dead, which is one other way for them to outnumber and surprise the living at the start, especially at the beginning, and for them to get a big surprise advantage if it happens at night. Of course, most of them are liable to be skeletons and not look intact.

In most RPGs, even CoC and BtS zombies do not infect on bite or even a kill. That is a movie thing and well DUH it usually falls apart. Though some of the better zombie movies show that those eaten are not rising again as there is not enough left. In general there needs to be enough mass to motivate. Skeletons tend not to wander about unless the source truly is supernatural.

Depending on the motivator force zombies may or may not have a life span. For example in the Walking Dead series. If you pay attention you'll see that the zombies are gradually looking worse and worse as they decay. In others they are merely infected and insane people and have a possible life span of a week at best.

Thing to keep in mind is that there may be a whole lot of them initially and they dont seem to get tired. They keep at it mindlessly. They can overwhem military units by sheer numbers and initial shock or attrition.

In the end though there are all sorts of zombies and just basing off movies theres classic zombies, hollywood zombies, virus zombies, magic zombies, alien zombies, and more. Some can infect. Some can not. And like pointed out above, in some, dropping dead period and you come back as one. No contact at all needed. Even the requirements to kill them can vary heavily. Head shot, chest shot. Simple blunt force trauma, and a rare few keep moving even when dismembered.

Tons of styles to pick and choose from.

Personally Im really sick and tired of the "eat you and infect you" style zombies. And in gaming Im just sick and tired of seeing them in every 3rd board game and now a few RPGs dedicated to them too. It gets really old really fast and it got really old several years ago and has started tunnelling down since.

I'll copy/paste my take on viral zombiedom from a thread i did called 10 Rules of Zombiedom a while back.

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My 10 rules of viral zombiedom (as opposed to the day of judgement type)

1. Fast zombies do not spread the epidemic. Fast zombies catch you and tear you apart. See rule 5.

2. Slow zombies spread the epidemic. Slow zombies can be avoided and even ploughed through, although you risk being bitten. People can escape slow zombies even after being bitten – to turn into zombies at a later date. You are generally only torn apart if cornered or stumbling into a situation where the odds are against you. See rule 5.

3. The brain is destroyed by the condition except for aural and visual receptors, limited motor control and the hunger receptor. Zombies do not learn or act in any way that isn’t controlled by the hunger reflex. They hunt, they tear.

4. Zombies stop decomposing once they arise from the dead. Otherwise, eyes and ears would degrade, meaning that the spread of the epidemic would grind to a halt. See rule 3.

5. Zombies do not consume you. They have no way of swallowing, of digesting or expelling food – see rule 3. They chew, tear, rip etc but do not eat you and thus their hunger is never diminished. What’s left of the body after being caught by fast zombies still cannot rise as a zombie, however – see rule 1.

6. Zombies do not moan – they do not breathe and therefore are incapable of expelling the air needed to moan. See rule 3.

7. Destroying the head and what is left of the brain drops a zombie for good – other wounds, even dismemberment, have limited effect depending on the type of the wound.

8. Zombies have no memory unconnected to the hunger reflex. Once you are out of sight and making no discernible noise, you are literally out of mind. See rule 3.

9. Zombies cannot manipulate objects, open doors and the like. This requires fine motor control and memory, which the zombie does not have. See rule 3.

10. Zombies do not attack each other because they want warm meat. See rule 8.

The problem with Zombies is that zombies are a plot device, a literary technique, a metaphor.  They can, and have, represented The Other, Blind Apathetic Consumerism, Greed, Death, Body Horror, Humanity's capability for violence, etc...

So with an adversary that could be anything really, in an RPG you have to do what I always say.  Setting.First.  In this case, the cosmology of Zombies.  
Choice number 1 -  This is a big one.  Are you designing a "Genre" game or scenario?  If so, then you need to decide what Genre you're talking about and decide how Zombies are going to fit into the tropes of that genre.
Choice number 2 - Supernatural or Natural Zombies.  For example, does their origin trace back to the War in Heaven, is this the End of All Things or is this an Alien Invasion, or Science For Profit run amok?
Choice number 3 - What drives them?  Hunger? Hatred of the Living?  Mindlessly killing anything that isn't them?  This will obviously be based on Choices 1 and 2.
Choice number 4 - How do they reproduce?  Influenced of course by all of the above.

How do you make Hollywood Zombies make sense?  Well, you can't really, except maybe for the Supernatural ones which get to break all the rules "because God says 'Fuck You!' that's why!"

Create them from the ground up, like you would create any villain, with Goals and Motivations (only here better termed Instincts) and they'll make sense, even if they won't be exactly like any other Zombie.

At this point, "Finding out what are the rules of Zombiedom" is a Zombie Trope itself, so players shouldn't balk at Zombies that aren't Movie:X type.

The 28 Days Zombies can't last (and aren't meant to).  They transform so quickly once infected that they will rapidly turn defenders via blood spray in a group melee.  They are very much a "Metaphor Zombie" and like most post-apocalyptic dramas, much of the tension comes from the horrible things survivors do to each other.

Fast-Powerful Zombies have that problem.  One way to make them work is to have the virus spread to animals, then the rats, birds, cats most likely will be the vector of infection.  With the virus spreading that much faster, though, they'll burn out quicker because more will be turned than eaten.

A rather unsavory way to make Fast-Zombies work is rely upon humanity's other obsession.  Yeah we need to eat, but we love to fuck.  If they are hungry, they kill and eat you, if they're not hungry, they rape you till you turn.   All bodily fluids (male and female) carry the virus, so now you get Broo.

If you're into more metaphorical Body Horror, have the real threat be the Rot Grub-like maggots infesting the zombies.  Get some on you, they dig for the brainstem.  Yummy.

Good discussion guys, thanks!

Palladium's Dead Reign puts more thought into this than any other rpg I've read.  Kev's writing is as long-winded and repetitive as ever, but it really explores the hows and whys of the game's particular take on the walking dead.  The factors relevant to this topic are probably that...

#1 The Zombies "feed" on psychic energy released at the point of death.  Humans can't see it, but the zombies can.  They rip people apart to create a big flare of energy that all the zombies benefit from.  Some also eat the flesh too, but for many it is simply a means to an end.

#2 The most common type of zombie beyond the usual shambler-type is  the crawling left-overs of people who were killed and mostly eaten.  They're gruesome and like to crawl through gaps too small for bigger zombies, often hiding there until food comes along, making them dangerous too.

#3 While the true source of the zombies remains unknown, the game presents a setting where a percentage of the human population was falling ill prior to the outbreak of the walking dead, creating an army of the dead ready to walk on day 1.  It also gives a good reason why emergency services, military and other capable types can't help much, since they were dealing with the crisis when it started and suffered terribly as a result.

#4 Zombies are often carriers of numerous normal diseases as well as being able infect the living who survive an attack, but it can also be treated if attended to quickly enough.  Not every human who dies becomes a zombie, not even those bitten by zombies.  There is also a weird half-zombie state some unlucky survivors can wind up in, but that's not so relevant here.

I'm more for the zombie outbreak as more a virus. You can get infected from bites because the saliva carries the virus in strong concentration and much stronger than the airborne version.   In addition, I postulate the zombie virus, confers a form of limited regeneration of certain tissues (which does require the zombie to eat to work).  Not whole arms and such but muscle and the few necessary organs.  The virus resides in the brain and it is chemicals from this location (and signals) that allow the zombie to exist.  The virus is very susceptible to oxygen so any penetration through the skull is almost always fatal to the zombie.

As to infection, an airborne virus that kills most people and turns them into zombies is the cause.  The virus has a long incubation period so by the time of the first symptomatic case almost everyone on earth is infected, certainly those engaged in travel and living in cities.  I've other idea variations,  the virus was first triggered by a vaccine meant to protect against another virus.  The other virus is deadly people are scared, the vaccine is hard to make and limited so it is given first to "key personnel", leaders, the military and first responders. Sadly this makes these people turn first effectively depriving society of such protection and preventing leaders from setting up in there doomsday bunkers.

The key in all of this is the primary source of infection is not being bitten, that is secondary and in my view quick action could stop the infection from a bite.

If you are attacked by one zombie, get bitten and get away, then you will probably turn into an intact zombie.
If you are attacked by multiple zombies but they are chased away or attack something else, then you will probably turn into a fairly intact zombie.
If you are in a group of people attacked by a group of zombies, then you may well become a zombie before being torn apart and zombies rarely seem to attack other zombies.

Three examples of how it can happen.

In one of the Romero movies (Dawn or Day), they mention it's a relatively small percentage of any victim is actually eaten, leaving plenty to reanimate. Given the rapid spread in the movies (and in more recent simulations!), they start outnumbered us* pretty quickly, even with a given percentage not being ambulatory (e.g. missing legs, broken back, et al).


*Note: I say "us", but this is more likely: