When it comes to playing nonhumans, the mainstream #dnd5e route is to just treat them all as if they were only humans in cosplay. That's the lamest possible choice, born from a rejection of mythic concepts.
#dnd #ttrpg #osr
Thats all well and good. But D&D elves, dwarves, halflings, etc, are demi-HUMANS. Not the classical fae. That is covered under the pixies, faeries and other sylvan creatures who, depending on the writer, are pretty weird and occasionally downright alien.
D&D though has gotten alot of variance and nuance with their various elves for example. Everything from pointy eared humans, to being human-like only on a superficial level. Forgotten Realms elves for example have some pretty non-human aspects. You could increase that and get some pretty unusal beings. But they wouldnt be demi-humans anymore.
Personally I prefer to leave the more alien aspects to the faeries, pixies and the like. More fun when the PCs have to navigate a realm that doesnt follow human rules or logic.
I liked this weird psychological mechanics for Elven Grief and Dwarven Greed in Burning Wheel. That sort of forced playing them in non exactly human way.
That's the way to do it, to incorporate certain "rules" for the behavior of "playable" non-humans, that don't make any apparent sense. Like it the medieval stories of elves, sometimes they are clearly alien and terrifying to those who encounter them, and sometimes they make themselves look like normal humans... but in their actions there's just always weird stuff they're doing or that happens around them. There are things they treat like absolute unbendable rules of reality, that we can't see as anything other than nonsensical behavior (like how Tamlane has the entire army of the Elven Queen after him, and yet when his mortal girlfriend throws her cloak over him they all have to give up and fuck off, even though he's right there, not invisible or anything, and the Elven Queen is still able to curse his girlfriend to die).
You could interpret those things as an absolutely unbreakable taboo, but what if they're not? What if they're the product of a perception of reality totally different from our own, where the "laws" that apply to them are as unbreakable as the consequences of running face-first into a brick wall would be for us?
And speaking of which, of course, there are a lot of things that we MUST do which the Elves don't have to, or can just do differently, but also sometimes to us it seems like they must do as well.
The last thing I need at my table is some pretentious twat pretending that they're oh-so-inscrutable when trying to role-play something like an elf.
A lot of the weird fairy story stuff comes from the animist idea that elves and brownies are in some strange way mutations or distortions of spirits of the dead, heroes, monsters, and old gods have passed from the world yet in some form they persist and are suffering something akin to dementia where they believe crazy things and forget or misremember mortal things including consistency.
They have less signal and more noise in their make up.
The dead in Sumerian myth become bird like. The goddess Inana when she has laid down her armor and power entering the underworld is overcome by the poisons of Kur she sprouts feathers and her feet become clawed like those mortal souls in the dark and on Earth the animals no longer rut and the crops will not grow.
The dead in Japan if ancient enough have no face at all and do not hunger or speak because they forgot that. They just make clicking noises as they watch the living from the trees, childlike and curious but unable to comprehend.
A dead pharaoh's personality is preserved in the Ba which like Sumerian tradition resembles a bird with a human head on it and it needs a preserved body or a statue of its mortal form to remind itself of what it was just to remain in the mortal world, while its eternal twin travels a dangerous underworld seeking judgment by the gods to become immortal.
Faeries are twisted and bent into a crook so to speak by time and being severed from life. They have become untethered to matter and biology and are moved by different forces many that might not even be perceivable to a mortal such as quantity or geometry. They might not be able to cross running water or might become confused at a crossroad or a fork road or get stuck on bridges across water or be able to pass through wood or not stone. They might take no offense at the most grievous insult or treachery and fly into a rage over some bizarre trivial thing.
Elves probably need to be less weird than this but they should not just be handsome rich foreign people with nice stuff and long long lives who know things and exist as a super character. They are not a demigod from a can. But they might talk to trees or be more vulnerable to ghosts and spirits or something to set them apart from a movie star version of a human.
You might do the Moorcock think and make elves the people of chaos (or order in the chaos of Corum) while the humans are more transitional creatures who could blunder into the arms of either.
You might make elves the humans of a more primeval foresty world closer to the powers of life (positive egenrgy) who came here and perhaps see this world as colder and stonier and more shadowy.
You might make them humans who somehow were the products of some eugenics or better living through magic and alchemy and were left over when their civilization crumbled (sort of the Stephen Brust take) who look on normal humans as wilder and less "bred" than they are.
They might be humans hybridized with something else. Maybe they have tree sap in their blood or grew up in the light of divine trees planted by the old gods. Maybe the Elder things who designed all biology on Earth at some late point in their reign tweaked an ape so it would drink soup without slurping and use the right fork for dessert unlike those ungrateful disobedient shoggoths who stopped washing the space cars and tending the space gardens and moved out. Maybe elves got the way they were by drinking from a fountain that was pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain.
Whatever.
QuoteThat's the way to do it, to incorporate certain "rules" for the behavior of "playable" non-humans, that don't make any apparent sense. Like it the medieval stories of elves, sometimes they are clearly alien and terrifying to those who encounter them, and sometimes they make themselves look like normal humans... but in their actions there's just always weird stuff they're doing or that happens around them. There are things they treat like absolute unbendable rules of reality, that we can't see as anything other than nonsensical behavior (like how Tamlane has the entire army of the Elven Queen after him, and yet when his mortal girlfriend throws her cloak over him they all have to give up and fuck off, even though he's right there, not invisible or anything, and the Elven Queen is still able to curse his girlfriend to die).
You could interpret those things as an absolutely unbreakable taboo, but what if they're not? What if they're the product of a perception of reality totally different from our own, where the "laws" that apply to them are as unbreakable as the consequences of running face-first into a brick wall would be for us?
And speaking of which, of course, there are a lot of things that we MUST do which the Elves don't have to, or can just do differently, but also sometimes to us it seems like they must do as well.
Now of course D&D traditional demihumans suffers from obvious clash between Tolkienian and Andersonian perspectives.
And demihumans in Tolkien books are way way more humans - I mean halflings are pygmy humans per se, elves are considered by Tolkien to be one species with men, and even dwarves are quite close. (Which also cames from desire to fit traditional CeltoGermanic fey beings into more Christian like metaphysical option).
Sure Anglo-Saxon faerie are wicked, mysterious, inhuman creatures. Basically NPC material.
Alas that's not the case with Gimli or Legolas. Or even powerful Noldor of 1st Age (sure Elves are different in some important regards - but they are also kin to men).
I mean Grief mechanics for Elves from Wheel I mentioned - differs them from humans, but it's something taken from Tolkien, and is something quite possible to understand.
QuoteElves probably need to be less weird than this but they should not just be handsome rich foreign people with nice stuff and long long lives who know things and exist as a super character. They are not a demigod from a can. But they might talk to trees or be more vulnerable to ghosts and spirits or something to set them apart from a movie star version of a human.
Additional poll of psychic damage elf gets from seeing terrible things. Needs long rest and purification to be remedied. If they dropped to 0 - elf dies from grief.
I've been yapping about this since the days of yore when THAC0s ran across the primeval world. There's no good solution. Many players have zero interest in non-human PCs being anything other than some stat & ability bonuses, and lots of these retards chaff when the DM has NPCs treat their PCs based on their race.
The best solution I've got as DM is to be upfront to players that NON-HUMAN means NOT FUCKING HUMAN and back that up in actual play with how you play NPCs and how various races interact in YOUR world so the players get the point.
Session zero, blah, blah, blah. You know the drill. Set expectations and lead by example.
BTW, I've found more pointy-eared cosplayers who actually get MORE into character than the lard asses tossing dice at the Cheeto table. Especially those who are doing LARPS.
I say make them different in whatever way you choose so long as it makes them feel different. This is why I like demi-humans having various special abilities like secret door detection, immunity to ghouls, or magic, or whatever. It is also a prime reason why I continue to restrict class options for demi-humans. They have other advantages, including the ability to multi-class, that I don't grant to humans. Allowing humans to max out in any class helps balance that out. For the most part, my elves, halflings, and dwarves are largely Tolkien derived anyhow. But I've dropped in some stuff from other sources.
Overall, as in many things, I like the Castles & Crusades versions of demi-humans. They tweak the AD&D demi-humans just a bit and alter their class options in interesting ways. For example, gnomes all get innate minor illusory magic. As a half-elf, your abilities vary whether you favor your human or elven parent. Most demi-humans can be bards, which makes sense, given that these races usually have singers, loremasters, etc. And they allow hafling rangers and half-orc monks. I know most games nowadays simply due away with class/race restrictions, but for me it's another element that encourages roleplaying.
If non-humans aren't going to be particularly non-human, I'd just as soon just have humans. There's an old Swedish game called Khelataar where the setting is an island colonized by the main group of people, the Khelataarians, around 800 years ago after they fled their homeland. These are the baseline humans. Then there's the indigenous people who were almost wiped out by a plague before the Khelataarians even got there and then split into three groups. One group went into the mountains, one group went into the deep forest and one group went into the swampy wetlands of a river delta. The mountain people are good smiths, use hammers and grow their beards out. The forest people live in tree huts and are good hunters and otherwise tree-hugging hippies. The swamp people make strong booze, use blowguns and travel around in canoes. So, there you've got ersatz dwarves, elves and okay the swamp people aren't really a substitute for anything. But now they're all human, just with different cultures, and you can play one as simply a mountain-dwelling smith human or a forest-dwelling hunter human.
Omega makes a good point though. Are they nonhuman, or are they 'demihuman'?
Honestly, if I wanted to play something with a distinctly nonhuman mentality I'd go fishing in the deep end of the pond. I got a LOT of mileage out of warforged, for example. Nothing like a bar scene where the warforged wizard is watching the party eat a meal, and comments, 'Fascinating. You put it in one end and it comes out the other.'
I ran a very long campaign (was amazing) of the One Ring and all of the non-human races feel very different - the mechanics enforce it. Can't recommend it highly enough.
Quote from: PencilBoy99 on December 29, 2021, 10:32:09 AM
I ran a very long campaign (was amazing) of the One Ring and all of the non-human races feel very different - the mechanics enforce it. Can't recommend it highly enough.
How do they enforce it
Mechanically. For example if you're a Hobbit, you get a lot of Hope (it's a currency you can spend to do specific things), and it's very easy to recover it. If you're an Elf you start with less and it's harder for you to recover. Along with other mechanics it ends up producing a very lord of the rings experience - Elves re powerful but aloof, but kind of done with the world and it's sorrows. Each of the races has a completely different set of talent-like things / cultural inheritances. The things on your character sheet as an Elf will be completely different than Dwarf even if you're both combatants, and you'll fight differently also. I'ts baked intot he rules.
Quote from: PencilBoy99 on December 29, 2021, 03:57:28 PM
Mechanically. For example if you're a Hobbit, you get a lot of Hope (it's a currency you can spend to do specific things), and it's very easy to recover it. If you're an Elf you start with less and it's harder for you to recover. Along with other mechanics it ends up producing a very lord of the rings experience - Elves re powerful but aloof, but kind of done with the world and it's sorrows. Each of the races has a completely different set of talent-like things / cultural inheritances. The things on your character sheet as an Elf will be completely different than Dwarf even if you're both combatants, and you'll fight differently also. I'ts baked intot he rules.
I like the sound of that, especially as it might be adapted to an old school clone with 'race as class'
I played Burning Wheel for a while, but never used the non-human races. It had some great design ideas, but both character generation and game play was really involved. There was a steep learning curve.
More broadly, I think that's the problem with making elves and dwarves as more fundamentally non-human. If successful, it makes it hard for players who want to role-play a dwarf or elf, because they have to operate very differently than if they're role-playing a human.
Any ideas for incorporating this concept into osr, classic and non d20 games like savage worlds? I used to think race as class was the answer now I'm not so much anymore
Race as class works well for making non-humans less human, however, there's no reason some games or campaigns could not have racial only classes.
Race based versions of classes is fun way to thread the needle where players get more choices (not a good or bad thing in itself), but the race remains unique vs. others.
AKA, a human warrior and a dwarf war-smith might both be fighting men, but how they approach battle could be wildly different so in actual play, the differences are stark and showcased at the table.
Quote from: jhkim on December 29, 2021, 05:09:31 PM
I played Burning Wheel for a while, but never used the non-human races. It had some great design ideas, but both character generation and game play was really involved. There was a steep learning curve.
More broadly, I think that's the problem with making elves and dwarves as more fundamentally non-human. If successful, it makes it hard for players who want to role-play a dwarf or elf, because they have to operate very differently than if they're role-playing a human.
yes, that's the challenge. If your game makes the psychology of the different type of creature very different then, shocker, many players don't want to play it anymore.
Well, if you like race as class, ACKS has interesting takes on that, wherein the non -human races have distinct classes. Some are basically multi-classes, but others are culturally specific and pretty cool.
And in my opinion, most systems could do it better than the atrocious rules provided by The One Ring rpg. But everyone has different tastes.
Quote from: RPGPundit on December 28, 2021, 02:50:29 AM
You're Either an Elf or a Point-Eared Cosplayer
Its the same picture.
Quote from: Spinachcat on December 29, 2021, 06:31:44 PM
Race as class works well for making non-humans less human, however, there's no reason some games or campaigns could not have racial only classes.
Race based versions of classes is fun way to thread the needle where players get more choices (not a good or bad thing in itself), but the race remains unique vs. others.
AKA, a human warrior and a dwarf war-smith might both be fighting men, but how they approach battle could be wildly different so in actual play, the differences are stark and showcased at the table.
Race based versions of classes is how my system does it. It works well imo.
Quote from: Spinachcat on December 29, 2021, 06:31:44 PM
Race as class works well for making non-humans less human, however, there's no reason some games or campaigns could not have racial only classes..
Meh. Race as class merely forces Demi-humans to all be the same multi-class hybrid in most instances. This in no way makes them unique from humans.
Races need something different to enforce a difference. Modern players will simply bitch about the bio essentialism this necessitates.
Only stupid players will bitch about bioessentialism as the whole point of the exercise is not to clandestinely encode the mentality of future society but to have fun playing a game that is about fanciful bullshit.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on December 28, 2021, 08:05:33 PM
The last thing I need at my table is some pretentious twat pretending that they're oh-so-inscrutable when trying to role-play something like an elf.
Then you shouldn't let people play elves.
Quote from: RPGPundit on December 30, 2021, 01:33:06 AM
Then you shouldn't let people play elves.
Or Melniboneans.
ToMAYto / ToMAHto
What's funny to me is we had this exact issue back in the 80s with D&D elves...but NOT with any of the races in Star Frontiers.
Even among the same players.
No idea why.
Maybe because scifi aliens are supposed to be...alien?
Quote from: RPGPundit on December 30, 2021, 01:33:06 AM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on December 28, 2021, 08:05:33 PM
The last thing I need at my table is some pretentious twat pretending that they're oh-so-inscrutable when trying to role-play something like an elf.
Then you shouldn't let people play elves.
I refuse to play Talislanta. :D
(Remember those old print ads? 'No elves'?)
Quote from: RPGPundit on December 30, 2021, 01:33:06 AM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on December 28, 2021, 08:05:33 PM
The last thing I need at my table is some pretentious twat pretending that they're oh-so-inscrutable when trying to role-play something like an elf.
Then you shouldn't let people play elves.
I think I'll keep doing my thing and ignore your advice on this. Thanks anyway.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on December 30, 2021, 09:25:04 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit on December 30, 2021, 01:33:06 AM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on December 28, 2021, 08:05:33 PM
The last thing I need at my table is some pretentious twat pretending that they're oh-so-inscrutable when trying to role-play something like an elf.
Then you shouldn't let people play elves.
I think I'll keep doing my thing and ignore your advice on this. Thanks anyway.
Agreed and seconded.
For someone who claims to be more open minded than the average SJW, Pundit sure CS likes to channel his brand of onetruewayism. It stopped being cute, funny and more importantly interesting a nano second ago.
Quote from: Abraxus on December 30, 2021, 10:06:55 AM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on December 30, 2021, 09:25:04 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit on December 30, 2021, 01:33:06 AM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on December 28, 2021, 08:05:33 PM
The last thing I need at my table is some pretentious twat pretending that they're oh-so-inscrutable when trying to role-play something like an elf.
Then you shouldn't let people play elves.
I think I'll keep doing my thing and ignore your advice on this. Thanks anyway.
Agreed and seconded.
For someone who claims to be more open minded than the average SJW, Pundit sure CS likes to channel his brand of onetruewayism. It stopped being cute, funny and more importantly interesting a nano second ago.
I mean there is some truth to the idea of wanting to play Demi humans and non human races as more alien, otherwise why not just run a human only game.
I'd have liked to see more ideas on homebrew and houserule ideas on making elves either more like Tolkien's version or more like myth while still keeping them playable. At least even just roleplaying tips.
So far from this thread alone I've seen
Unique classes or feats for non humans.
Race locked classes, like maybe only elves can dual class with magic users
Try to lean into the idea of being immortal, I'd suggest having a very unpunctual character who has a hard time actually giving a shit about things that are temporary problems.
Consider as a race various taboos or mannerisms they might have that would be nonsensical to humans. Elves having extreme etiquette or dwarven greed or compulsion to create
I'd personally love to hear specifics on how to enforce non human concepts mechanically. Alien enough to not be human but not so alien they're unplayable
Quote from: Ocule on December 30, 2021, 11:43:45 AM
Quote from: Abraxus on December 30, 2021, 10:06:55 AM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on December 30, 2021, 09:25:04 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit on December 30, 2021, 01:33:06 AM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on December 28, 2021, 08:05:33 PM
The last thing I need at my table is some pretentious twat pretending that they're oh-so-inscrutable when trying to role-play something like an elf.
Then you shouldn't let people play elves.
I think I'll keep doing my thing and ignore your advice on this. Thanks anyway.
Agreed and seconded.
For someone who claims to be more open minded than the average SJW, Pundit sure CS likes to channel his brand of onetruewayism. It stopped being cute, funny and more importantly interesting a nano second ago.
I mean there is some truth to the idea of wanting to play Demi humans and non human races as more alien, otherwise why not just run a human only game.
It's a good question, and one I've thought about often.
I like near-human races. I like that they are not human, but human enough so that they are relateable.
The question of alien-ness falls apart for me. All the alien races I've seen in fiction are still based on human imagination, and so are terribly limited by our experiences. Portraying a really alien mentality often runs towards "anti-human", some opposite of human behavior, which is still based on our human behavior instead of one that really feels alien.
Quote from: RPGPundit on December 28, 2021, 07:25:12 PM
That's the way to do it, to incorporate certain "rules" for the behavior of "playable" non-humans, that don't make any apparent sense. Like it the medieval stories of elves, sometimes they are clearly alien and terrifying to those who encounter them, and sometimes they make themselves look like normal humans... but in their actions there's just always weird stuff they're doing or that happens around them. There are things they treat like absolute unbendable rules of reality, that we can't see as anything other than nonsensical behavior (like how Tamlane has the entire army of the Elven Queen after him, and yet when his mortal girlfriend throws her cloak over him they all have to give up and fuck off, even though he's right there, not invisible or anything, and the Elven Queen is still able to curse his girlfriend to die).
You could interpret those things as an absolutely unbreakable taboo, but what if they're not? What if they're the product of a perception of reality totally different from our own, where the "laws" that apply to them are as unbreakable as the consequences of running face-first into a brick wall would be for us?
And speaking of which, of course, there are a lot of things that we MUST do which the Elves don't have to, or can just do differently, but also sometimes to us it seems like they must do as well.
The 2e D&D books like Skills and Powers and especially Complete Book of Humanoids tried to introduce things like that. Traits that a species might have, superstitions and beliefs as well. The Superstition system alone is great for adding some variety to non-human beings. Allowing for their lack of experience, alien outlook, or pure chance things that build into a belief. Some of the examples that drift into the alien would be like seeing a certain type of armour triggers the positive or negative belief. Like Clainmail is seen as lucky but leather is not. And so on.
Depending on the time or region theres some crossover between the faerie folk and the undead in some otheir actions. Like some fae have to count grains of sand or salt just like some vampires do. Or the classic cold iron or silver.
In Forgotten Realms for example it is stated that elves need to do their daily meditative rest period as that is when they sort and retain memories as they do not remember things like humans do. The other recall was that at a certain age elves go blind and can only thereafter see the hidden elven paradise and feel compelled to find a way there. Or some of the depictions of FR elves approach to magic. Especially high level magic.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on December 30, 2021, 08:24:39 PM
The question of alien-ness falls apart for me. All the alien races I've seen in fiction are still based on human imagination, and so are terribly limited by our experiences. Portraying a really alien mentality often runs towards "anti-human", some opposite of human behavior, which is still based on our human behavior instead of one that really feels alien.
It's really, really, really, really, really hard to write a good alien.
But there is a spectrum, which ranges from humans with pointy ears (most mainstream cosmopolitan fantasies and most commercial science fiction), to humans with pointy ears and an exaggerated human trait (like the Ferengi, or many dwarves), to humans with a longer or more distant perspective (Tolkien elves, Clarke's Overlords), to aliens with a fundamentally different physical structure and cultures (Niven's Kzinti, Puppeters, or Moties would qualify, and so would most conceptions of the fae), to stores that largely avoid the question and treat aliens as fundamentally unknowable (the visitors in Roadside Picnic or the Quintans of Lem's
Fiasco; in fantasy this is typically reserved for transcendental beings).
For RPGs, anything beyond an exaggerated human trait is hard, because it would require major buy-in from the player.
QuoteThen you shouldn't let people play elves.
Or you can play Tolkien like elves, or even Germanic Ljusalfar, rather than inscrutable borderline demonic Faeries of English folklore.
Quote
I'd personally love to hear specifics on how to enforce non human concepts mechanically. Alien enough to not be human but not so alien they're unplayable
Well there are various games with Psychology/Morality rules, where game can push player actions towards certain end - and for instance he needs to pass Willpower saves to work against own nature, and is punished by game for doing so - in mental and spiritual anguish.
You can do the same with human Psychology - if you let's say choose loyalty to some cause as your trait - you can be reward with bonus for being faithful (as it's great motivation for your PC) but punish if you wanted to break such loyalty (which simulates mental anguish of someone who needs to break well estabilished bonds of loyalty and comraderie).
White Wolf games have plenty of rules for the so called "alien" aspects of whatevers. But most players tend to ignore it as it gets in the way all too often of having fun being a werewolf or faerie or ghost or whatever.
Rules that take away control of the character from the player can be a definite bone of contention for some. Frequency of triggering these moments though can be the real thorn.
Indeed.
But what can I say. If any alienisation is problem for player - maybe truly just play human.
I don't think one needs to play elf as Brittish folklor faerie, especially considering it's relatively late peasant folklor that already was distanced far from myths that give it birth, but still elf should mean something. (Then of course one could also apply some psychological compulsions to human characters)
I tend to make my non-humans STRONGLY tied into their relevant cultural norms so those cultural components act as something of a 'touchstone' for RP of that race. It helps define what is standard for them and, therefore, also defines exceptions. My Babylonian/Egyptian-inspired sun-worshiping Hobgoblins are DRENCHED in the peculiarities and habits of their culture and so the hobgoblin player in my game was strongly defined in many many ways by his interactions with those cultural moors.
Similarly, my elves are split into two castes...high elves that are capable of wielding magic and huffing a powdered form of ley (as in energy from leylines) to extend their lives for centuries that act as the absolute ruling class and second-class citizen non-magic capable standard elves that drop dead around 35. With elves so strongly defined by this caste split, it naturally reinforces a very tangible sense of how different these beings are from the normal human culture my players exist in.
Of course, that's all dependent on a player giving a damn about 'character' elements...but that's a given.
This at least helps create a sense of 'difference' between the portrayal of the races because I don't think there's necessarily many good ways to get to that 'mechanically' and I don't think the juice would even be worth the squeeze
But the question is to what degree let's say those Egyptian-Babylonian hobgoblins are essentially different from human beings of simmilar cultures?
With elves - sure there are aspects you described that are not really human-like.
Quote from: Wrath of God on January 08, 2022, 09:25:41 AM
But the question is to what degree let's say those Egyptian-Babylonian hobgoblins are essentially different from human beings of simmilar cultures?
With elves - sure there are aspects you described that are not really human-like.
Good question
In generally, the difference is to the extent the other races are adherent to those cultural norms. I embrace the 'humans are the grab bag' mentality baked into their design in the various editions. Humans are far more varied on average by a huge factor. Other races? Not so much at all.
The PC that was a hobgoblin smith that actually began second guessing the brutal hobgoblin culture was so noteworthy as WEIRD that it was worth being noted by servants of gods. Hobgoblins simply DO NOT deviate from their Lawful Evil culture except in rare and noteworthy cases. Where-as humans were far more likely to have a wider variety of outlooks within a culture while also having varied human cultures in general, the non-human races do not.
Dwarves are dwarves are dwarves and are overwhelmingly defined by the traits in their culture in their case this included the on-going writing of epic poems that acted as an autobiography that would be sent back to the grand libraries that acted as dwarven 'cemeteries' where one might read about the life of almost any past dwarf. This is so integral to their culture, they even do this for stillborn children or children that die young with parents writing out fictional accounts of the entire life they would have wanted for their child as part of the grieving process. This concept dominates dwarven life and culture and is essentially IMPOSSIBLE for a dwarf player to totally disregard as a part of dwarves.
Yes the none-humans of course still had personalities, but those personalities would invariably play off of or within the confines of their culture where-as humans might never meaningfully be tied to their cultural background in any big way. It worked to reinforce that "oh yeah that weird thing is a big part of X race" whenever interacted with.
This would include very inhuman outlooks on morality as well. The hobgoblins, for example, have essentially no familial concern for their offspring outside of raising them to serve within their culture and child sacrifice was just accepted as normal as part of appeasing the brutal god-king that ruled them. The elves? Their caste system was absolute and inhuman (by most peoples standards) in how stark the difference was between high elves and standard elves with high elves not even being punished for the deaths of the 'lessers' whose short lives are seen as all-but valueless when compared to the multiple centuries a high-elf could live. That high elves and elves saw this as 'normal' made it all the more alien to the players. Now, that didn't mean the high elves were sociopathic murderers that killed wantonly because, largely speaking, the elves as a people were neutral to good...but just the idea that this wasn't even a crime was something that really highlighted just how different elves were from regular humans even though it never came up in the game.
Things like cultural norms including laws and treatment within those laws are a great way to really get across how 'other' a fantasy race might be. Sometimes it really fires a shot across the bow for players. Once the players, for instance, heard that dwarves treated getting drunk at home outside the confines of a meadhall to be the equivalent of spousal/familial physical abuse even when nothing physical or 'harmful' (by human standards) even occurred it became quite clear how important family stability within a household was to the dwarves in the setting.
At the end of the day its going to boil down to the same issues playing an alien or strange/foreign culture can be.
Some players will get into it and some wont and the rest are in between.
You can do the same thing with dwarves and especially gnomes who oft are depicted with some unusual behaviors as well.
But with elves the problem is some dont want elves, they want faeries and fae. Theres a difference. But alot of people have mixed the words together to the point its hard to tell without a description of how they act.
And even the faerie realm were not completely bug-eyed-aliens. They still have many human aspects.
I mean in England aelfs evolved by mixing with Celtic legends and Christian folklore into faerie and fae.
So world elf was used for faerie.
I'd say overall however there is no One True Elf and in kitchensink D&D Tolkienian elves and dwarves (arguably closer to Nordic and partially Finnic roots) can co-exist with devilish English Faerie.
So it's all about estabilishing what given world means in your setting that's all - and if you play Tolkienian elves which are basically humans in pre-Original Sin state, then playing them as close to humanity in many regards is fine.