A wrestling RPG.
I'm not that into wrestling, even though I can enjoy it on occasion, but for me 4E felt like a wrestling match and I think it would make a great engine for an OTT wrestling RPG.
You know my buddy said pretty much the same thing after borrowing my essentials books awhile back, somebody should get on that as ive a feeling not just wrestling but MMA and martial arts in general would suit the 4e engine.
Quote from: Broken-Serenity;575595You know my buddy said pretty much the same thing after borrowing my essentials books awhile back, somebody should get on that as ive a feeling not just wrestling but MMA and martial arts in general would suit the 4e engine.
Ninjas and Superspies. Mixed with RECON.
Super Recondos vs Ninjas! Palladium won't get us!
I found that the waning and waxing of hit points combined with conditions in combat really felt like the reversals of a wrestling match
Quote from: Planet Algol;575600I found that the waning and waxing of hit points combined with conditions in combat really felt like the reversals of a wrestling match
Flex at the crowd for 10 rounds to gain XP multiplier while your enemy gains his HP back? :)
I always thought that 3E/4E had some roots somehow in NBA basketball. Imagine a "move without dribbling" feat or a power that allows you to draw a foul without contact.
I guess it's a lot like wrestling, actually. :)
Quote from: Planet Algol;575592A wrestling RPG.
I've long thought that about every version of D&D. It's just that older versions would be more boring than newer ones for it.
Wiping my ass?
It makes a great board game.
Quote from: gleichman;575604I've long thought that about every version of D&D. It's just that older versions would be more boring than newer ones for it.
Two swell wrestling RPGs have been made off of the d20 base.
I was just going to mention that, but then, y'know, Tommy.
All warforged group. The PCs are artificial intelligences that have been partially corrupted in aeons of slumber. Their memory banks and magical processors, which allow them to perceive and understand the reality surrounding them and interact with it via actions and movement, have been damaged.
They can regain slowly control of their inner core by venturing forth, exploring and experiencing the world around them.
They organize space in their mind's eye as a grid. They analyze movement based on artificial units of time. Some, most moves they can still perform without much strain from their data banks, while others override their systems and create shortcuts which require some time for them to process and correct to perform again. Generally a few minutes without intensive activity are enough, but sometimes a full system shutdown of a few hours at a time is necessary. They can recover from physical damage extremely fast, assisted by the nanobots that keep their systems running, even deriving surges of energy to rerout fuels in the middle of a fight when necessary.
They each have particular moral and ethical allegiances that have been programmed into their core. And ways to uncover their deeper purpose, their path of destiny, which has too been implanted into their core magical nucleus at birth, as their systems reacquire full functionality through the experience they gain from interacting with the world...
Quote from: Planet Algol;575592A wrestling RPG.
I'm not that into wrestling, even though I can enjoy it on occasion, but for me 4E felt like a wrestling match and I think it would make a great engine for an OTT wrestling RPG.
I think 4E would be a good fit for a Super Hero setting, but I would have to do a lot of work to adapt it.
Quote from: JRR;575623Wiping my ass?
Spend a Healing Surge.
I've been saying something similar about 4e would be a great Powerstone simulator. But then I make the assumption that any of you know what I'm talking about. It's basically a huge arena of fighting while trying to get McGuffins. Let me drop a video, it explains faster:
Powerstone Gameplay (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_rQW3Axk7o)
Basically everyone in the 19th Century runs around looking for power-up gems, which makes their dreams come true. When they encounter competing adventurers they fight. Where they fight often has terrain hazards, expendable setting weapons, and power-ups. If they collect enough gems they go into super form and deal more damage for a limited time. Best 2 of 3 wins.
Which to me is perfect for D&D 4e. Make Encounter powers tiered, where each lvl of Encounters only open when you get a/nother gem. Every time you get a new gem you refresh your Encounters. And when you get all three you transform to get your Dailies and refresh all your Encounters.
Each time you take X damage/Knocked Down while holding a gem, you drop a gem. Random loot litters the screen. One-shot potions let you use a Surge to heal. One-shot improvised weapons do a strong range attack (throw crate or barrel). And expendable weapons give X attacks before fading. Sprinkle terrain liberally with damage traps and enjoy.
The only thing I worry about is the average length a combat would take, especially since it's best 2 of 3. Oh, movement is simultaneous, people secretly write which square they're moving to, but initiative determines attack priority (Improved Initiative might be a banned feat). So, people might end up running into AoOs.
I preferred Powerstone 2.
(Hey, *I* knew what you were talking about. Viva la Dreamcast!)
Quote from: Benoist;575678All warforged group. The PCs are artificial intelligences that have been partially corrupted in aeons of slumber. Their memory banks and magical processors, which allow them to perceive and understand the reality surrounding them and interact with it via actions and movement, have been damaged.
They can regain slowly control of their inner core by venturing forth, exploring and experiencing the world around them.
They organize space in their mind's eye as a grid. They analyze movement based on artificial units of time. Some, most moves they can still perform without much strain from their data banks, while others override their systems and create shortcuts which require some time for them to process and correct to perform again. Generally a few minutes without intensive activity are enough, but sometimes a full system shutdown of a few hours at a time is necessary. They can recover from physical damage extremely fast, assisted by the nanobots that keep their systems running, even deriving surges of energy to rerout fuels in the middle of a fight when necessary.
They each have particular moral and ethical allegiances that have been programmed into their core. And ways to uncover their deeper purpose, their path of destiny, which has too been implanted into their core magical nucleus at birth, as their systems reacquire full functionality through the experience they gain from interacting with the world...
Countless years into the future, the earth has largely been abandoned by the human race who became refugees among the stars, seeking and colonizing new worlds.
Since planets are not always immediately habitable to humankind, terraforming of potential new homeworlds is carried out via nanobots which are linked to a central AI within each ARK ship while the human passengers rest in cryostasis. The terraforming makes the environment hospitable for the humans, but some of the planets physical properties...like space, time, gravity, etc. are a bit...off.
Not all of these planets were uninhabited when they were terraformed, some had indigenous creatures that suddenly found themselves having to adapt to an environment that is slowly becoming more and more hostile to them.
By this time, technology has become so ubiquitous and so user-friendly that humans can interface with on a biological level, using their unique bioelectrical signature as a sort of cellular IP address. Most people only perform basic day-to-day functions, and are only granted basic "user" status. Some however, need to perform maintenance and correct errors with the ARK AI. These people are granted "Admin" status and have special privileges within the system.
Then a cataclysm happened within network connecting all of the ARK ships. A virus or something of that nature destroyed a lot of the data from ship to ship and disrupted the life support systems. The ships had to make emergency landings planetside or lose all of the people hibernating within them. Furthermore, the cataclysm caused the sleeping populace to lose large portions of their memory, leaving only their most basic instincts and human intelligence intact.
Finding themselves awakened in a strange land with no memory of how they arrived, only that they seem to have come from a god named "ARKAI" the people begin to learn and evolve and rebuild. That was 11,000 years ago.
PC's play denizens of one of these worlds, with no notion that everything runs on futuristic technology. The planes are actually other colonized planets that have developed much in the same way that theirs has, and is linked via spacefold.
Most people in these worlds are simply "users" and are bound by the rules of the system. PC's are "admins" and can bend the rules int heir favor, even if they're not quite sure how they do it. Powersources more are like different coding languages than anything else, so arcane would be PERL to divine's C#, etc.
Different humanoid races are merely humans that have evolved in different environments.
Monsters are the planets former inhabitants, who were mutated by the terraforming of their homeworld.
Quote from: Declan MacManus;575796Countless years into the future, the earth has largely been abandoned by the human race who became refugees among the stars, seeking and colonizing new worlds.
Since planets are not always immediately habitable to humankind, terraforming of potential new homeworlds is carried out via nanobots which are linked to a central AI within each ARK ship while the human passengers rest in cryostasis. The terraforming makes the environment hospitable for the humans, but some of the planets physical properties...like space, time, gravity, etc. are a bit...off.
Not all of these planets were uninhabited when they were terraformed, some had indigenous creatures that suddenly found themselves having to adapt to an environment that is slowly becoming more and more hostile to them.
By this time, technology has become so ubiquitous and so user-friendly that humans can interface with on a biological level, using their unique bioelectrical signature as a sort of cellular IP address. Most people only perform basic day-to-day functions, and are only granted basic "user" status. Some however, need to perform maintenance and correct errors with the ARK AI. These people are granted "Admin" status and have special privileges within the system.
Then a cataclysm happened within network connecting all of the ARK ships. A virus or something of that nature destroyed a lot of the data from ship to ship and disrupted the life support systems. The ships had to make emergency landings planetside or lose all of the people hibernating within them. Furthermore, the cataclysm caused the sleeping populace to lose large portions of their memory, leaving only their most basic instincts and human intelligence intact.
Finding themselves awakened in a strange land with no memory of how they arrived, only that they seem to have come from a god named "ARKAI" the people begin to learn and evolve and rebuild. That was 11,000 years ago.
PC's play denizens of one of these worlds, with no notion that everything runs on futuristic technology. The planes are actually other colonized planets that have developed much in the same way that theirs has, and is linked via spacefold.
Most people in these worlds are simply "users" and are bound by the rules of the system. PC's are "admins" and can bend the rules int heir favor, even if they're not quite sure how they do it. Powersources more are like different coding languages than anything else, so arcane would be PERL to divine's C#, etc.
Different humanoid races are merely humans that have evolved in different environments.
Monsters are the planets former inhabitants, who were mutated by the terraforming of their homeworld.
That's particularly awesome. Couching the example in a little bit of game terms: Clerics are adherents to the wishes of the original Developers, and so are known as the 'Devine', whereas traditional wizards and sorcerers who are granted additional access by ARKAI are known as the 'Arkaine'
Quote from: Panzerkraken;575800That's particularly awesome. Couching the example in a little bit of game terms: Clerics are adherents to the wishes of the original Developers, and so are known as the 'Devine', whereas traditional wizards and sorcerers who are granted additional access by ARKAI are known as the 'Arkaine'
Ooh...good word trickery!
4e would be good to fill a landfill.
Quote from: 1989;5758154e would be good to fill a landfill.
Go on with your bad self. Tell me more.
It would make a wonderful tactical mini's battle game or boardgame.
Quote from: Marleycat;575856It would make a wonderful tactical mini's battle game or boardgame.
In addition to the above, I think if you like more of a tactical aspect to your RPG, 4e is also good for:
* not worrying about CharOPers taking over
* high survivability/low fatality rates
* good presentation
* pretty easy to find a group
* lots of internet resources available
* every class having powers
4e isn't my thing, and I cringe to call it "D&D" (because it's a completely different and new game), but I can at least see the appeal for some people.
Quote from: Planet Algol;575592A wrestling RPG.
I'm not that into wrestling, even though I can enjoy it on occasion, but for me 4E felt like a wrestling match and I think it would make a great engine for an OTT wrestling RPG.
4e is pen and paper video gaming.
A sports based tactical miniatures game.
Remember Blood Bowl? 4E would be great to use as the base for the same kind of game. Using the basketball analogy, call it FantastiBall and have two Players create teams of five and see who can get past the other's guard to score a basket on a limited court of the game.
4e was good at delivering to me what I thought I was promised when I first saw the cover of Mentzer Basic D&D cover at the age of 8.
Quote from: jeff37923;575877A sports based tactical miniatures game.
Remember Blood Bowl? 4E would be great to use as the base for the same kind of game. Using the basketball analogy, call it FantastiBall and have two Players create teams of five and see who can get past the other's guard to score a basket on a limited court of the game.
That was exactly what I had in mind when I made my post. Or if sports isn't your thing it would make a wonderful boardgame/tactics of the Goodman game Xtreme Dungeon Crawl Classic.
Quote4e was good at delivering to me what I thought I was promised when I first saw the cover of Mentzer Basic D&D cover at the age of 8.
That's exactly what Schaub said was the inspiration.
Hello Ettin; you know, if you think the OP is so funny you're certainly welcome to register an account and laugh at it on this thread.
Why, that was obnoxious. Yeah, 4E is only good for cutting cocaine on, I'd imagine.
Quote from: Skywalker;5758794e was good at delivering to me what I thought I was promised when I first saw the cover of Mentzer Basic D&D cover at the age of 8.
and what exactly did you think you were promised, didn't get and 4e delivered? or were you just making fun of the 13th Age authors?
@Algol, dude, chill. If you know there's nothing at SA that can possibly interest you, why go? You'll never meet any of those people, except at a convention, and if you do, you'll probably never know it, and thus actually have fun gaming with them.
Quote from: CRKrueger;575948and what exactly did you think you were promised, didn't get and 4e delivered?
Fighting dragons, dynamic combat, high adventure, larger than life heroes, and fantasy worlds of my own creation.
Don't get me wrong, I remember my pre4e D&D experiences fondly too but I remember them being quite different than what I felt I was initially promised when I was getting into D&D. I am also sure the promise could have been fulfilled with pre4e D&D too, but it certainly wasn't out of the box the way I felt 4e did.
I make peace with D&D4 by thinking of it as a direct competitor with Descent, HeroQuest, Advanced Heroquest and similar games of that ilk. (Just add tiles and miniatures.)
Quote from: CRKrueger;575948@Algol, dude, chill. If you know there's nothing at SA that can possibly interest you, why go? You'll never meet any of those people, except at a convention, and if you do, you'll probably never know it, and thus actually have fun gaming with them.
Yeah, pretty much this. I mean, if you watch JD Corley in his video podcasts, he seems like a perfectly chill dude and someone who would be fun to game with.
Then you read some of the stuff he posts and it's like, "Whoooaaah!"
The magic of the internet. You know how they say the camera makes you look fat? Well the internet takes your rational response you would have said in real life and turns it into the most negative interpretation possible of what someone actually said if not outright lying and adds a ton of vitriol as a side dish.
Quote from: Skywalker;575951Fighting dragons
Could have sworn those were in there.
Quote from: Skywalker;575951dynamic combat
Defined by what? Square-moving?
Quote from: Skywalker;575951high adventure
If there's a rules system you think gives you that, toss me some of what you're high on.
Quote from: Skywalker;575951larger than life heroes
Larger then life meaning lots of powers to spam or larger then life meaning cutting through enemies very quickly. 4e ain't the latter.
Quote from: Skywalker;575951fantasy worlds of my own creation.
Umm, you were 8, so I'll cut you slack but...
your creations come from youQuote from: Skywalker;575951but it certainly wasn't out of the box the way I felt 4e did.
You think 8 vs. 28 mighta had something to do with that? :hmm:
I'm hitting you hard here, but frankly that sentence you quoted (and yes I mean quoted cause it's from the echo-chamber these days) was pure memespeak and total bullshit.
Quote from: CRKrueger;575959*snip*
I kind of knew you wanted to put up those skittles to knock over :) Feel free to hit hard. That was my genuine reaction to 4e when I first got it. I had no idea it had been memed (maybe I created the meme - rock on!) :) However, if you load the comments and questions negatively, then I will have less reason to give a considered response.
Yes, dragons were in every edition of D&D. It was only in 4e that I recall meeting them upfront from the get go (at 1st level) in a fun and challenging way as was depicted on Moldvay and Mentzer Basic D&D covers.
As for combat, I found that the 4e system provided dynamic combat through more PC choices, a sense of movement to the battlefield, new options with monsters (both in terms of what they can do and the use of elite and solo tiers) that previous editions didn't. FWIW I am not a fan of minis, but 4e used them to very good effect IMO YMMV and I didn't see them as pissing in my cereal as I had pretty much given up on D&D at that point.
As for high adventure and larger than life heroes, I think this may be a personal thing. I found the return to strong archetypes like in early versions of D&D, the embedded hero's journey with Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies, the dropping of some mechanical cruft (like a lot of the wealth management), and a few other things all helped bring the players and DM together on a slightly different page than previous editions of D&D; one with those elements emphasised.
The 4e setting presentation actually inspired me a lot to create my own material. As said elsewhere, it reminded me of how AD&D1e felt when I was learning Greyhawk through the modules. So, it was something that was implied in 1e but was lost in 2e and 3e when the White Wolf approach to D&D settings hit. Sure, I can create my own settings from scratch but I don't create such things 100% internally and I don't know many people who do.
My statement included the factor of aging but for clarification I felt like 4e delivered
today what Mentzer Basic D&D promised me when I was 8 years old. I have no idea if it would have translated to my 8 year old self. What I can say is that the lack of that promise being fulfilled was not restricted to my 8 year old self, as it continued throughout my D&D experiences for over 25 years.
Quote from: Planet Algol;575936Hello Ettin; you know, if you think the OP is so funny you're certainly welcome to register an account and laugh at it on this thread.
Actually, FYI, Ettin did create an account on this board. He's been too chicken to actually post so far, but you never know. Maybe he'll grow some balls in the near future.
Quote from: Benoist;575975Actually, FYI, Ettin did create an account on this board. He's been too chicken to actually post so far, but you never know. Maybe he'll grow some balls in the near future.
At least he'd be better than Halloween Jack. Ettin is an equal opportunity shit stirrer. He has no special love concerning 4e.
Quote from: Skywalker;575963It was only in 4e that I recall meeting them upfront from the get go (at 1st level) in a fun and challenging way as was depicted on Moldvay and Mentzer Basic D&D covers.
Dragons at first level to me is Pokemon, but as you said YMMV.
You say a few things like...
Quote from: Skywalker;575963It reminded me of how AD&D1e felt when I was learning Greyhawk through the modules.
Quote from: Skywalker;575963but was lost in 2e and 3e
Sounds like what you meant was that you thought 4e brought back what Lorraine Williams-era TSR and WotC D&D lost, rather then what you actually implied, was that it was never there to begin with until 4e.
Dragons at First Level? That one I'll give ya, it wasn't there. :D
As to no considered response? Nah. You consider all your responses, you do so very carefully. ;)
Quote from: CRKrueger;575998Sounds like what you meant was that you thought 4e brought back what Lorraine Williams-era TSR and WotC D&D lost, rather then what you actually implied, was that it was never there to begin with until 4e.
Lorraine Williams-era TSR began in 1986. I am referring to Moldvay and Mentzer
Basic and Expert sets (and AD&D1e) all which precede that period.
I do agree that except for the promise many of these things weren't in D&D before 4e unless you went out of your way to bring them. That was kind of my point.
Quote from: Skywalker;576017Lorraine Williams-era TSR began in 1986. I am referring to Moldvay and Mentzer
Basic and Expert sets (and AD&D1e) all which precede that period.
So what exactly (which you pointed out by your own words) did 2 and 3 lose that 1e had (or I guess didn't have because 4e finally brought it...except when it did it felt like 1e again, so 1e did have it...).
Quote from: Skywalker;576017I do agree that except for the promise many of these things weren't in D&D before 4e unless you went out of your way to bring them. That was kind of my point.
Sly, but you're agreeing with yourself because that wasn't what I said(see what I mean about those considered responses). Many different versions between 0 and 4. You're claiming 4e finally brought play "without you going out of your way" even though you admit that in Basic and 1e you did attain it, since, by your own words, 2nd and 3rd lost it and 4th reminded you of how 1e felt.
And C'mon, you, of all people, Mr. "Take any brand new game featuring a large amount of Narrative Mechanics and make the circuit on all the boards saying how trad it is" weren't aware that's almost exactly the terms used by the 13th age guys? Umm... yeah.
I understand, it was late, you were tossing out the one-liner to put in a word for Team Nar, only it didn't slip through. It probably will next time.
Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;575953I make peace with D&D4 by thinking of it as a direct competitor with Descent, HeroQuest, Advanced Heroquest and similar games of that ilk. (Just add tiles and miniatures.)
This.
It's definitely more of a RPG than all of the above, which means I can do a Scottish brogue when I'm playing my Dwarf Fighter or spout Jedi platitudes when I'm a Githzerai Avenger without feeling like a total dork, and it's got the mechanics for resolving off-the-combat-grid things. So I wouldn't say it's a boardgame, just a RPG with very accented boardgamey elements, particularly as it pertain to combat.
The entirety of my 4e critique is that there's too much focus on combat, to the exclusion of other things (namely, exploration, which was a big deal in TSR-era D&D); and (2) I don't care about the super-fiddly character generation and development (optimization, building etc.) schema (which admittedly date back to 3e... but let us not dwell on it :D).
I actually wished I got to play 4e a bit more. Maybe I should have picked up the Essentials stuff and run a little 4e game of my own, inspired by World of Warcraft and Final Fantasy and new school magitech videogamey fantasy. I don't even think it's a bad game by itself... it's just not what I'm used to thinking of as "D&D".
Quote from: CRKrueger;576027So what exactly (which you pointed out by your own words) did 2 and 3 lose that 1e had (or I guess didn't have because 4e finally brought it...except when it did it felt like 1e again, so 1e did have it...).
Despite adding more heroic setting, neither 2e nor 3e got any closer to delivering on the promise that I got from early D&D. I found the rules progressed very much (as expected) with focussing on how D&D was actually played, ultimately leading to 3e.
The main things that 2e and 3e moved away from, as said, was the strong character archetypes, an open setting implied mostly through adventures, and a growing focus on stuff that just didn't really matter.
Quote from: CRKrueger;576027You're claiming 4e finally brought play "without you going out of your way" even though you admit that in Basic and 1e you did attain it, since, by your own words, 2nd and 3rd lost it and 4th reminded you of how 1e felt.
4e didn't remind me much of how AD&D1e actually played or felt. It delivered on the promise that I got from it and other early D&D products - from reading the material and looking at the pictures mixed with fantasy stories that I really liked in my youth (and still do).
However, yes, it was closer in feel AD&D1e than I found AD&D2e. There seemed to be a move toward the kind of fantasy I felt was promised with 2e, but it was actually carried out less in the material for that edition. AD&D3e has obvious mechanical similarities to 4e, but again I felt it stepped away from that initial promise even more than the previous two editions.
Quote from: The Butcher;576028I can spout Jedi platitudes when I'm a Githzerai Avenger without feeling like a total dork
Got news for ya...:D
Quote from: CRKrueger;576032Got news for ya...:D
Yeah, well, I still think playing Jedi with your friends and dice is less dorky than doing voices during a Monopoly game, so sue me. :D
Quote from: The Butcher;576033Yeah, well, I still think playing Jedi with your friends and dice is less dorky than doing voices during a Monopoly game, so sue me. :D
Yeah but you know you VROOM VROOM the car.
Quote from: Skywalker;575951Fighting dragons, dynamic combat, high adventure, larger than life heroes, and fantasy worlds of my own creation.
Don't get me wrong, I remember my pre4e D&D experiences fondly too but I remember them being quite different than what I felt I was initially promised when I was getting into D&D. I am also sure the promise could have been fulfilled with pre4e D&D too, but it certainly wasn't out of the box the way I felt 4e did.
I don't actually find the combat to be very dynamic at all. That is, a lot of stuff happens in 4E combat, but none of it really feels like it matters.
People have been lauding 4E combat since the game came out, but I feel like that's the worst part of the game. Push miniatures x number of squares; minor, move, standard action; X(W) damage + mods + stock effect...it feels very machine-like and it got dull for me after about two sessions.
Quote from: Declan MacManus;576079I don't actually find the combat to be very dynamic at all. That is, a lot of stuff happens in 4E combat, but none of it really feels like it matters.
People have been lauding 4E combat since the game came out, but I feel like that's the worst part of the game. Push miniatures x number of squares; minor, move, standard action; X(W) damage + mods + stock effect...it feels very machine-like and it got dull for me after about two sessions.
While I was able to dm 4E just fine with no map, I do agree that the basic math to perform a hit and damage roll is too cumbersome. But then again, I find secondary attacks in 3X justs as annoying.
The standard action, move, minor action thing seems harmless enough to me.
I still prefer 1E though.
Quote from: Bill;576081While I was able to dm 4E just fine with no map, I do agree that the basic math to perform a hit and damage roll is too cumbersome. But then again, I find secondary attacks in 3X justs as annoying.
The standard action, move, minor action thing seems harmless enough to me.
I still prefer 1E though.
The fiddly little modifiers are annoying, but not quite as bad as 3.x I find. I think 4E's underlying system is good...I just wish the combat leaned more toward strategic and descriptive than tactical.
Also, minor, move and standard action is too much in my book. Especially when each has a special power. I would prefer if it was one big thing and one small thing per round.
Quote from: Declan MacManus;576097The fiddly little modifiers are annoying, but not quite as bad as 3.x I find. I think 4E's underlying system is good...I just wish the combat leaned more toward strategic and descriptive than tactical.
Also, minor, move and standard action is too much in my book. Especially when each has a special power. I would prefer if it was one big thing and one small thing per round.
I agree that I would prefer the one big and one small action.
4E has too many condition effects to track as well, such as, 'dazed until the end of the attackers next turn' and 'Ongoing 10 fire dmage, save ends' etc...
When you have a lot of those on multiple characters it slows the game.