TheRPGSite

http://www.modiphius.com/conan.html

using something called the 2d20 system that appears in Mutant Chronicles.  anyone know that one?

No, but you can find a brief synopsis over on a thread at TBP. I find it all very dreary — another small press with its own house system I'm supposed to learn. Why can't someone figure out how to do what everyone obviously wants: a Conan game for Runequest or some other major, well supported system that is well suited to the genre. We seem to find a way to fuck up nearly every licensed setting.

Oh Crom's Hairy Nutsack, you gotta be kidding me.  A "cinematic" system written by Jay Little?  That went so well for WFRP3, didn't it?

They wanted to charge Mongoose an exorbitant sum to re-up the Conan License because the movie was coming out...well we all know how that went, it stunk to high heaven, and I'm guessing the price went down a little (no pun intended).

Mein Gott in Himmel I hope he doesn't cock it up too much.  Of course I already have my Conan RPG - RuneQuest 6.

I am not a fan of Jay Little but the 2d20 system seems a lot less convoluted than WFRP3e from what little I know.  Modiphius has also been doing good things with the likes of Acthung Cthulhu and Mutant Year Zero, and its likely not to be small RPG publisher anymore relatively speaking.

On saying that, like most Conan fans, I already have my favourite Conan RPG being Atlantis the Second Age. So, unless its designed and packaged well I will likely only look at scenarios.

You can download the Mutant Chronicles quickstart (3e) for free on DTRPG.

I like what I've read so far. It's a nifty system.

Basically, you have 8 abilities. You roll 2d20, with a general skill using the ability as the target number(TN). You want to roll low. If you have a expertise in a skill (ranks), you add your ranks to the ability to determine TN. You also have "focus" in a skill. If you're d20 roll is at or below your focus, you get an additional success.  So say you're Ability is 10, you have 3 expertise and a Focus of 2. You roll 2d20 and you get a 2 and a 12. Since both are below TN of 13 you get 2 successes + one more because the first one was at the Focus number. Difficulty is set based on the number of successes you need to achieve. This roll would hit a D3. If you roll a "critical" (usuallya 20), bad things can happen. If you get a success and a 20, you get a complication. If you get no success and a 20, you fail with a complication and 2 crits and the GM gets Dark Symetry points to use later or hose you. :-)

Check out the QS. I think the game has potential.

The basic resolution system seems not bad, you described it well.  However, then we get all Forgey-Worgey Timey-Wimey with "complications" and "GM has system-granted permission to amp up the story with Dark Symmetry points".  Makes my friggin' teeth itch.

The Complications and Dark Symmetry could easily be used for Sorcerous Corruption, instead of STORY!!!, so we'll see.

There are some serious Howardians involved and Jason Durall can hopefully undo any damage Little might do.

Plus Sanjulian, so it will look good at least.

Meh...i have the same reaction as Lars. Why can't someone with a real system (TM) do Conan?! It's a shame.

2d20 is nothing new and also not in a good way. It's just flat and boring.

Oh and it will be a KS? Great...more "good" news :rolleyes:
Modiphius is known for its overpriced KS.

So: lame system and overpriced rip-off? No thanks.

It's such BS that there is even a Conan "license". The dude died childless in 1937. By any moral right, how does a company in Sweden own the rights to his work?

Sure, I can understand the pastiches and the comic and movies. But the original text? Bah, humbug.

Didn't TSR have it?  Conan and Red Sonja under the late 1e or early 2e rules?

A huge amount of Howard's work is in the public domain as it was published in the era where you had to keep reapplying for copyright and no one did.  Most of the Conan stuff is on Project Gutenberg.

It's not a question of whether you can legally publish Conan stuff in the US, you can.  The question is do you have pockets deep enough to fight the legal battle.

I must give WFRP 3e credit for trying something new. Personally, FFG should do a WFRP boardgame where its more boardgame and less RPG and make connected campaign scenarios that can be played in 1-2 hours.

I will still argue that Warhammer Quest was the second best Warhammer RPG experience after the glorious WFRP 1e. Even though WHQ was a dungeon crawl board game, we always got deep into the atmosphere of the setting.

Quote from: Skywalker;814936On saying that, like most Conan fans, I already have my favourite Conan RPG being Atlantis the Second Age.

Please start a thread about Atlantis:the Second Age. I'm interested in why you feel its great for Conan.

Quote from: JeremyR;814954It's such BS that there is even a Conan "license".

US copyright law is fucked and all the lobbyist cash is on the "make it even worse" side of the argument.

Here's a list of REH stuff in the Public Domain.
http://www.robert-e-howard.org/anotherthought4rerevised.html

Quote from: Spinachcat;814977Please start a thread about Atlantis:the Second Age. I'm interested in why you feel its great for Conan.

I have an extensive thread here: http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=28094. I have also done 3 reviews here on TheRPGSite.

Atlantis is a great S&S RPG IMO. It may not be the best at replicating Conan exactly, but it can emulate Conan as well as pretty much any other S&S series with ease. The setting is well written, cultured and reminiscent of Howard's Hyboria without replicating it exactly, and the whole RPG has a wonderfully consistent tone.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;814956Didn't TSR have it?  Conan and Red Sonja under the late 1e or early 2e rules?

No.

They did Conan as its own RPG, by David Cook. And a darn good one too. It uses a percentile system. Think three modules came out for it. It was totally ripped with the defense of "OGL Allows me to!" to file off all the IP.

TSR also did three or so AD&D modules based more on the movie from what I have seen of them. At least two for Conan, with Arnie on the cover, and at least one for Red Sonja.

Jay Little seems like a genuinely swell guy, but after Warhammer3 and what I've seen of 2d20 Mutant Chronicles, I can't help but think of him as the World Eater.

Quote from: CRKrueger;814929Oh Crom's Hairy Nutsack, you gotta be kidding me.  A "cinematic" system written by Jay Little?  That went so well for WFRP3, didn't it?

(...)

Of course I already have my Conan RPG - RuneQuest 6.

My thoughts exactly, on both counts.

RQ6 core rulebook + d20 Conan setting material (esp. Return to the Road of Kings, the ultimate Hyborian Age Gazetteer) = all the Conan RPG I'll ever need.

Quote from: CRKrueger;814964A huge amount of Howard's work is in the public domain as it was published in the era where you had to keep reapplying for copyright and no one did.  Most of the Conan stuff is on Project Gutenberg.

It's not a question of whether you can legally publish Conan stuff in the US, you can.  The question is do you have pockets deep enough to fight the legal battle.

I think you could publish the original works as is, but can you publish derivative works based on those books?

Quote from: Endless Flight;815010I think you could publish the original works as is, but can you publish derivative works based on those books?

Yes, if it's in the public domain.

If anyone has any questions about the work we're doing, let me know. I'm happy to provide what answers I can.

I have run the new Mutant Chronicles RPG and it has nothing to do with Star Wars or WFRP3.
It's a gritty, semi-realistic system (hit locations!), that still maintains fluid gameplay. The Dark Symmetry is nothing more than a resource the players' feed the GM with and is totally in line with the Mutant Chronicles setting.
I don't know if I can see something similar to that in Conan, where it doesn't make any real thematic sense, but the core of the system is perfectly suited for Hyboria.

Quote from: Nerzenjäger;815057I have run the new Mutant Chronicles RPG and it has nothing to do with Star Wars or WFRP3.
It's a gritty, semi-realistic system (hit locations!), that still maintains fluid gameplay.

I too have run the new MC during its beta-phase, and I'll give you fluid. I've seldom had to spend less time explaining how things work. In play, it could have retained some of the fluidity if we had the custom dice. We didn't, so there were some extra mental hoops in reading dice results - but I guess practice would make it better.
I'll give you gritty as well - it can get exeptionally nasty. As for semi-realistic ..nah. It's as wonky as its setting, only without the charm.
I wont claim that it doesn't work because that would be lying, but it still rubs me every other way but the right one.
It's a gimmicky system, and a system weirdly lacking in transparency(but that might be because of my shortcomings in basic probabilities).
Gears are already whirring in my brain on a MC-campaign, but I don't see me using the official rules - I guess we'll see when it is out and I can properly devour it. I plan on doing a let's read-thread.

Now, this is about the Conan-game. I don't really have any input there, except for wishing they'd secured a RuneQuest Gateway-license for it.

Yeah "Too bad it's not RQ6" seems to be a common reaction, on a variety of boards.

I remember way back, when people were talking about Mongoose making Conan using MRQI (probably due to Slaine), I didn't see it, the MRQI system just didn't grab me for Conan.  Then MRQII came along and it sold me.  

When I heard they were redoing Conan in MRQII with a series of world books and detailed new maps, I was in Howard Hog Heaven.  Then the IP holder said Mongoose couldn't change the system because the movie was coming out soon, and they thought they could squeeze new money out of the license and so a lot of great work went down the toilet (from what I understand, 2 and a half of the world books were done writing-wise).

I look at this project and it looks near perfect in some cases.  Two well-known serious Howard/Conan scholars, two well-known Conan artists, and Jason Durall, who did a great job with Laundry Files, a BRP veteran...all that's missing is a system worth anything.

Narrative-based metagame economy, abstract ranges, "complications" that let players choose when to lose resources like ammo.  It's like they decided to take the most OOC elements of X-world, FATE, and Cortex and slap them together.

What a tragically missed opportunity.

Quote from: Jason D;815054If anyone has any questions about the work we're doing, let me know. I'm happy to provide what answers I can.

Hi Jason, I have a couple questions.

1. Abstract Ranges
Except for 3:16, I haven't seen an abstract range system that wasn't clunkier then just using ranges.  Some games it's easy to just give numbers, in others the system mechanics for movement, combat, etc are so tied into the abstract range system that it becomes a redesign to convert.  How "baked in" are the Abstract Ranges?

2. Narrative Metagame Economy
MC has "Dark Symmetry", Infinity has "Heat", both are methods of buying dice by giving the GM authority to mess with you kind of like Fate/Cortex.  Systems like this are not always easy to remove.  For example, removing Bennies from Savage Worlds has an effect on the game beyond just removing the OOC thinking, the mechanics themselves use Bennies as fuel.  How is this going to be represented in Conan and how easy will it be to remove?

3. World Development
Traditionally, game systems of a light, narrative bent don't spend much time on setting development, because, really, the setting is less important then the player's stories, I mean that's why that system was used.  There are a couple of well-known Howard guys on board. Are they there as window dressing or just to go over a manuscript and say stuff like "no unicorns", or are they going to be consulted on actually developing Hyboria beyond Howard's text but within Howard's vision?  In other words, stuff like actually detailing Brythunia, for example.

4. Pastiche
If I had a criticism of Vincent Darlage's work for Mongoose, it's that he brought in a lot of pastiche elements from Carter, De Camp, etc... even though the "pastiche canon" is of varying degrees of "Howardness" much like Derleth's Mythos differs from Lovecraft's ideas in many ways.  What sources are being used, Howard only or Howard plus others?

5. System
Why didn't you convince everyone to use BRP/RQ6? :D  Ok, you don't have to answer that one.

Quote from: CRKrueger;814964It's not a question of whether you can legally publish Conan stuff in the US, you can.  The question is do you have pockets deep enough to fight the legal battle.

The problem these days is trademark not copyright. How is anybody supposed to make a successful Conan RPG if they can't use Hyboria or Conan in the title.

I'm not familiar with 2d20. It sounds a bit gimmicky from what I read in this thread.

Making this a BRP-derived game doesn't sound like a bad idea, though I personally find RQ6 a little too fiddly/complex. I'd prefer something akin to OpenQuest in that case.

Quote from: estar;815108The problem these days is trademark not copyright. How is anybody supposed to make a successful Conan RPG if they can't use Hyboria or Conan in the title.

The essay "The Hyborian Age" is in the public domain, you could use that, couldn't you?  Or since Kull, Bran Mak Morn, etc are probably in the public domain too, call it the Robert E. Howard RPG or Worlds of Howard or something.

Besides isn't trademark a sign, design, logo or expression of something, so for example something using the Hyborian Font or using the exact name "Age of Conan" like the MMO, would be offlimits, but they can't trademark the word Conan if the character is in the public domain, can they?  How many games with Cthulhu in the title do we have?

Paradox can claim all they want, but it doesn't mean shit if you have the money to fight them, that's the only real problem, all the original Weird Tales stuff is Public Domain, and that's nearly all of it.

Quote from: Anglachel;814952Oh and it will be a KS? Great...more "good" news :rolleyes:
Modiphius is known for its overpriced KS.
So: lame system and overpriced rip-off? No thanks.

We're funding the core book and campaign book ourselves before the kickstarter then running a kickstarter to bring together the biggest line up of Conan artists ever to paint the covers of each book and do interiors and do a boxed mass market intro set, the book range, and more. Our last kickstarter gave away about 3000 PDF pages for £40 / $60 investment which I don't think has been beaten by any RPG projects yet and is one of the best value deals out there.

As to the cost of the books - I think they're a fair price for the exceptional quality - the last set of books got converted for free to colour so backers have got them for £5 / $8 less than retail on average. We set a price to make sure we could deliver quality, and still be around to make sure people got the books - which we've done and continue to do. Many company's have failed to deliver because they didn't charge a fair price.

As to the system - well that's a matter of taste - there will be a free preview out in the spring for you to decide on :-)

Quote from: JeremyR;814954It's such BS that there is even a Conan "license". The dude died childless in 1937. By any moral right, how does a company in Sweden own the rights to his work?

Sure, I can understand the pastiches and the comic and movies. But the original text? Bah, humbug.

Actually the last owners did their very best to make sure no one published Conan, the new owners have since got major publishers across the world to republish Conan works, produced a new movie (whether you like it or not with more on the way) and encouraged and managed a swathe of merchandising to bring Conan to a new generation - so I'd say they're nurturing it pretty well and making sure more people than ever have access to the works of REH.

Quote from: CRKrueger;815101Hi Jason, I have a couple questions.

1. Abstract Ranges
Except for 3:16, I haven't seen an abstract range system that wasn't clunkier then just using ranges.  Some games it's easy to just give numbers, in others the system mechanics for movement, combat, etc are so tied into the abstract range system that it becomes a redesign to convert.  How "baked in" are the Abstract Ranges?

2. Narrative Metagame Economy
MC has "Dark Symmetry", Infinity has "Heat", both are methods of buying dice by giving the GM authority to mess with you kind of like Fate/Cortex.  Systems like this are not always easy to remove.  For example, removing Bennies from Savage Worlds has an effect on the game beyond just removing the OOC thinking, the mechanics themselves use Bennies as fuel.  How is this going to be represented in Conan and how easy will it be to remove?

3. World Development
Traditionally, game systems of a light, narrative bent don't spend much time on setting development, because, really, the setting is less important then the player's stories, I mean that's why that system was used.  There are a couple of well-known Howard guys on board. Are they there as window dressing or just to go over a manuscript and say stuff like "no unicorns", or are they going to be consulted on actually developing Hyboria beyond Howard's text but within Howard's vision?  In other words, stuff like actually detailing Brythunia, for example.

4. Pastiche
If I had a criticism of Vincent Darlage's work for Mongoose, it's that he brought in a lot of pastiche elements from Carter, De Camp, etc... even though the "pastiche canon" is of varying degrees of "Howardness" much like Derleth's Mythos differs from Lovecraft's ideas in many ways.  What sources are being used, Howard only or Howard plus others?

1 - We'll be providing alternative range related combat for those who want to use minis and tiles, or want to measure how far their arrows fall. It's not forced, but the abstract 'zone' system does work well. But if you want a metres per turn movement you'll have it :-)

2 - RPG's already let the GM mess with you - in fact with a normal RPG the GM can mess with you even more and not need any justification. 2d20 gives a fun structure to this, it makes GM'ing a lot easier (and we'll be running seminars for 2d20 GM's online) and is perfect for new GM's and experienced alike. Wait for the free preview and you'll see or stick it out with the Infinity playtest.

3 & 4 - We're working with Jeff Shanks to ensure this game is true to REH. We're only using the works of Howard, not pastiches etc. When new material is required - ie for adventures, Jeff will be the core of the team writing the plots to ensure it's true to Howard's vision. This is extremely important for us.

Hope that helps!

We'll be unveiling a lot more about plans soon - we're currently confirming the list of planned books with are a lot less geographical supplements and more story orientated plot books. It's a different approach than previous works and I think you'll like it.

There's a lot of great writers to announce, many more major artists as well so we'll have a busy month. The 2d20 system is being tweaked to give a heavier focus on melee, magic will be very very dark, costly and dangerous, or you'll have simple alchemical options for those 'pretend sorcerers' who were much better at convincing people they were sorcerers

Quote from: CRKrueger;815113Paradox can claim all they want, but it doesn't mean shit if you have the money to fight them, that's the only real problem, all the original Weird Tales stuff is Public Domain, and that's nearly all of it.

Unfortunately Paradox has registered as trademarks for games all the common terms for Conan, like Conan, Hyboria, Age of Hyboria, etc.

Which is not likely a problem if you reprinted the original weird tale work. But is probably a problem if you printed a derivative work.

Not they are registered, not in the process of being registered but already granted.

If you were to try to make a RPG product off of the PD Conan works then your best chance is to hire a IP lawyer to come up with a decent titles.

I don't know what could pass muster but if I had to guess would be something like

QuoteRed Swords and Black Sorcery
Adventures in Robert E. Howard's The Hyborian Age.

The mark for Conan for games

http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4806:z9wzty.6.26

The mark for Hyboria for games

http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4806:z9wzty.6.21

And totally unrelated the guys behind Troll Lord Games tried to trademark Swords & Sorcery.

http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4806:z9wzty.8.4

I'll pass on this one, I still have GURPS Conan and plenty of Howard stories. No need really.

Quote from: CRKrueger;8151014. Pastiche
If I had a criticism of Vincent Darlage's work for Mongoose, it's that he brought in a lot of pastiche elements from Carter, De Camp, etc... even though the "pastiche canon" is of varying degrees of "Howardness" much like Derleth's Mythos differs from Lovecraft's ideas in many ways.  What sources are being used, Howard only or Howard plus others?

Any Conan RPG that uses or references Carter/De Camp is an instant no-sale for me.

Quote from: Omega;815187Any Conan RPG that uses or references Carter/De Camp is an instant no-sale for me.

We didn't recruit two Conan/REH experts so we could use Carter/De Camp.

(I'm always torn about those two. Their non-Conan writings are actually kind of enjoyable, if sometimes trashy or derivative, but they're forever going to be defined as "the guys who wrecked Conan".)

Quote from: CRKrueger;815113Besides isn't trademark a sign, design, logo or expression of something, so for example something using the Hyborian Font or using the exact name "Age of Conan" like the MMO, would be offlimits, but they can't trademark the word Conan if the character is in the public domain, can they?  How many games with Cthulhu in the title do we have?

The point of trademarks is so that the consumer know which company the product is coming from. Which is why if I trademarked Ultimate Acme as a brand of shoes and somebody tries to use Wonderful Acme for a knock off brand then I have a cause of action against Wonderful Acme as the consumer may confuse their product for mine.

If Paradox (or rather it's licensees) is using Conan! as the title for a rpg. And i come out with Robert E. Howard's Conan the RPG. They could also have a cause of action if they were granted a trademark on Conan.

A John Doe could tell Jane "Hey go get that new Conan RPG it is great." She walks into the store and buys Conan the RPG instead of Conan! which the game that John played.

Yes companies can be overzealous and the privilege is often abused. But the basic idea is sound, a company has the right to establish a brand and not have other company confuse the consumer with knock offs.

Despite the public domain status of Conan many of  the keywords that the public associates with Conan IP are under trademark. This makes it tough for a company making derivative of the PD material to market their products.

I should also clarify that as far as the Modiphius crew is concerned, Vincent is a great writer, and his contributions to the Conan gaming world are worthy of praise. He has an immense respect for REH and has done more than any other RPG author to popularize REH's work, and he has left large sandals to fill.

The decision of whether to use pastiche material (however canonical) is one many IP licensees have wrestled with. In our case, we were facing the issue of a ridiculously large and broad swathe of stuff of quality ranging from sublime to sub-par, and chose to hew to the original works are our source of inspiration.

I trust Jason, I don't need a new Conan engine since frankly d100 or Savage Worlds would suit me, but I suspect this will be a lovely game.

Did somebody say Mark Schultz??

If his stuff is all over the book, I'm in, even if I never play it.

Quote from: Endless Flight;815276Did somebody say Mark Schultz??

If his stuff is all over the book, I'm in, even if I never play it.

I'd like to give this a +1, and a hell yeah!

Conan, especially literary Conan hasn't ever struck me as a genre that needs allot of specialized, narrative rules to run effectively. Seems like allot of generic systems could handle it as what makes it distinct is atmosphere and attitude.

My Conan gaming needs are going to be satiated for a while by the Conan boardgame that just kicked so much ass on the appropriately named Kickstarter.  

But I'd totally play any Conan RPG at a con if the GM was good.

As for REH canon vs. non-canon, I would be TOTALLY STOKED (yeah I said stoked) to play in a Marvel Conan RPG campaign based on the Conan comics.

Does the system really require rolling 2d20 as the standard resolution mechanic? That might take some getting used to.

Quote from: The_Shadow;815302Does the system really require rolling 2d20 as the standard resolution mechanic? That might take some getting used to.

2 d20s is the standard. A task's difficulty may add or subtract dice to what is essentially a very minimalistic dice-pool system.
The d20s are rolled against a target number based on stat+skill, and you want to roll low. If you manage to roll several successes, you gain momentum that you can use to pull off a variety of ..stuff.

There are a few complications - you can have a skill focus that earns you extra successes is you roll below a certain threshold, you can have specific talents that changes difficulty, allows for rerolls etc, you can use fatepoints(no matter what they end up calling it, it is a fatepoint-mechanic) to manipulate the rolled result, you can can give the GM a couple of "fuck me up-points" to get extra dice.  

Whatever issues the system has, the dice are not part of it. The 2d20s roll very well.

Quote from: Spinachcat;815301My Conan gaming needs are going to be satiated for a while by the Conan boardgame that just kicked so much ass on the appropriately named Kickstarter.  

But I'd totally play any Conan RPG at a con if the GM was good.

As for REH canon vs. non-canon, I would be TOTALLY STOKED (yeah I said stoked) to play in a Marvel Conan RPG campaign based on the Conan comics.

+1 on the Dark Horse

Quote from: ChrisBirch;815152We'll be unveiling a lot more about plans soon - we're currently confirming the list of planned books with are a lot less geographical supplements and more story orientated plot books. It's a different approach than previous works and I think you'll like it.

There's a lot of great writers to announce, many more major artists as well so we'll have a busy month. The 2d20 system is being tweaked to give a heavier focus on melee, magic will be very very dark, costly and dangerous, or you'll have simple alchemical options for those 'pretend sorcerers' who were much better at convincing people they were sorcerers

Chris, regarding the kickstarter, would it be possible to include stretch goals for additional rule systems in the same way Achtung! Cthulhu did?

Quote from: CRKrueger;814948The basic resolution system seems not bad, you  described it well.  However, then we get all Forgey-Worgey Timey-Wimey  with "complications" and "GM has system-granted permission to amp up the  story with Dark Symmetry points".  Makes my friggin' teeth  itch.

I love the idea of a purist, Howard-only, Conan game. I love the idea of a really nicely produced Conan game with top-notch artwork. I am however, concerned with regard to the choice of rules system, which seems rather needlessly fiddly and perhaps even convoluted for this.

Quote from: Omega;814988No.

They did Conan as its own RPG, by David Cook. And a darn good one too. It uses a percentile system.

The ZeFRS rules are available online for free, with all the Conan serial numbers removed: ZeFRS : Introduction (http://www.midcoast.com/~ricekrwc/zefrs/). Also, Evil DM Productions did a ZeFRS version of their sword & sorcery setting Legends of Steel that includes the (slightly adapted) ZeFRS rules: Legends of Steel: ZeFRS Edition - Evil DM Productions | DriveThruRPG.com (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/88729/Legends-of-Steel-ZeFRS-Edition).

Quote from: ChrisBirch;815149As to the system - well that's a matter of taste - there will be a free preview out in the spring for you to decide on :-)

I'd be interested in checking that out.

Quote from: Larsdangly;814926(...) to do what everyone obviously wants: a   Conan game for Runequest or some other major, well supported system that   is well suited to the genre. (...)

Quote from: Bilharzia;815354Chris, regarding the kickstarter, would it be possible to include stretch goals for additional rule systems in the same way Achtung! Cthulhu did?

This! Making it a BRP/Call of Cthulhu-compatible game would be IMHO an excellent idea.

Quote from: Bilharzia;815354Chris, regarding the kickstarter, would it be possible to include stretch goals for additional rule systems in the same way Achtung! Cthulhu did?

Conan, with Savage Worlds as the system would appeal to me.

I'd pull the trigger on the KS with a RQ6 stretch goal.

Interesting. But, this system would need to have some serious teeth to entice me to use it for Conan over a few editions of RuneQuest, the Elric!/Stormbringer system, or Barbarians of Lemuria.

Quote from: Bilharzia;815354Chris, regarding the kickstarter, would it be possible to include stretch goals for additional rule systems in the same way Achtung! Cthulhu did?

Quote from: CRKrueger;815454I'd pull the trigger on the KS with a RQ6 stretch goal.

Another vote for RuneQuest 6e.  

Some other version of BRP would be acceptable, but RQ6 would be absolutely perfect for Conan.

Quote from: Spinachcat;815301I would be TOTALLY STOKED (yeah I said stoked) to play in a Marvel Conan RPG campaign based on the Conan comics.

Barbarians of Lemuria would be perfect for Marvel comics (Savage Sword of) Conan.

RuneQuest 6 is perfect for original REH Conan.

Quote from: Akrasia;815501Barbarians of Lemuria would be perfect for Marvel comics (Savage Sword of) Conan.

RuneQuest 6 is perfect for original REH Conan.

Was going to mention BoL. Beat me to it.:-)

As said, I am more than happy with Atlantis for my S&S needs, bu I will certainly be picking up the new Conan RPG if the source material is good quality and it's well presented. It's not like there is only time for one RPG (I am also a fan of Barbarians of Lemuria).

If its good, Modiphius'' version will be handy as "all in one" licenced Conan RPG for attracting certain prospective players, given that the previous licenced attempts are somewhat lacklustre.

Quote from: Ronin;815452Conan, with Savage Worlds as the system would appeal to me.

While nowadays I'd use RQ6, I ran the hell out of this for a year or so. Fun stuff.

Quote from: CRKrueger;815454I'd pull the trigger on the KS with a RQ6 stretch goal.

+1, i'd go for a pdf of that.

Quote from: Skywalker;815533As said, I am more than happy with Atlantis for my S&S needs, bu I will certainly be picking up the new Conan RPG if the source material is good quality and it's well presented. It's not like there is only time for one RPG (I am also a fan of Barbarians of Lemuria).

If its good, Modiphius'' version will be handy as "all in one" licenced Conan RPG for attracting certain prospective players, given that the previous licenced attempts are somewhat lacklustre.

Not sure I'd call Mongoose's Conan RPG with 2 Editions, 2 Boxed city sets, a dozen setting supplements, and several rules supplements "lackluster".  If you think the 2d20 system is going to outsell a D20 version at the height of the D20 boom, you're headed for disappointment.

However, if Modiphius cross-pollinates by having one KS goal be a new mini and rules for the Conan boardgame and another KS goal be a macguffin for the Age of Conan MMO, then now you're getting somewhere.  They're never going to penetrate the market through the RPG alone, especially with an obscure narrative system.  5e, maybe.  2d20, no.

If they manage to get the ok to release setting books, then the readership expands to Conan/Howard fans who aren't roleplayers as well, but I think they'll probably focus on a string of adventures, Conan-like, without a lot of world development.

Quote from: CRKrueger;815607Not sure I'd call Mongoose's Conan RPG with 2 Editions, 2 Boxed city sets, a dozen setting supplements, and several rules supplements "lackluster".  If you think the 2d20 system is going to outsell a D20 version at the height of the D20 boom, you're headed for disappointment.

I agree if you are talking about quantity, but not on quality. Though Mongoose Conan was better than most OGL RPGs, it was still pretty poor and I struggled to attract anyone to play it.

It's one of those odd things. Though an RPG may sell well widely, it doesn't necessarily mean they are easier to sell to players in every RPGers circle.

Quote from: Skywalker;815630I agree if you are talking about quantity, but not on quality. Though Mongoose Conan was better than most OGL RPGs, it was still pretty poor and I struggled to attract anyone to play it.

It's one of those odd things. Though an RPG may sell well widely, it doesn't necessarily mean they are easier to sell to players in every RPGers circle.

Hmm, "poor" - that kind of needs a qualification I think.

Mongoose editing sucks, granted, which is why they needed the Atlantean Edition.
Mongoose maps suck too, granted.
It's D20, so if you don't like D20, it's not gonna go.

However, they did make some serious hacks to the system to make it much more Sword and Sorcery, including some great Combat Maneuvers.  The fluff, even though it included pastiche, was meticulously researched.  The two main campaigns Betrayer of Asgard and Trial of Blood were kinda railroady as "stop the bad guy" stuff tends to be, but both definitely included possibilities for failure and ways to deal with alternate decisions for the PCs.

Yeah it didn't include any cinematic "I'm Conan, so..." logic, but that was a feature, not a bug.

I'm honestly curious what you thought so "poor" about the system, because most detractors I've seen tie the disdain to the d20 system, but even they say it was a good attempt at making d20 more Conan-Like.

I agree that Conan was among the better OGL RPGs out there as I said in my last post.

A lot of my issue is with D20 used for Conan TBH. There was effort made to adapt it with relative success (armour and magic were good). But overall I don't think it was a great end result for Conan. I found that the changes generally were laid on top of the existing system, adding complexity to an already convoluted system. A good example was the proliferation of the use of Attacks of Oppotunities to represent racial traits.

The setting material was pretty good to begin with, though Mongoose's many editing issues became an issue.

Quote from: Akrasia;815501Barbarians of Lemuria would be perfect for Marvel comics (Savage Sword of) Conan.

Why?

Quote from: cranebump;815525Was going to mention BoL. Beat me to it.:-)

Great, you explain too!

Somewhere out there is a perfect Conan RPG, but I haven't seen it yet.

We'll see if this is it.

Jason and/or ChrisBirch...

1. Is chargen going to cover all the races/nationalities (Hyborian, Nordheimr, Stygian, Zingaran, Shemite, Hyrkanian, Khitan, Vendhyan, Pict etc) or are you going to focus on the Hyborian nations only at first?

2. Any hints as to how Sorcery will be dangerous?  Corruption mechanic, spell backfires, demonic possession?

3. From what I understand, the 2d20 system allows for specific hit locations, what about critical hits and lasting effects?  How crunchy is melee combat going to be?

Quote from: CRKrueger;815979Jason and/or ChrisBirch...

1. Is chargen going to cover all the races/nationalities (Hyborian, Nordheimr, Stygian, Zingaran, Shemite, Hyrkanian, Khitan, Vendhyan, Pict etc) or are you going to focus on the Hyborian nations only at first?

The plan, as far as I know it, is to include all relevant races in the core rulebook. I'm not a big fan of distributing basic character generation choices across multiple books.

We may see regional sourcebooks providing additional cultures, but you should be able to play the obvious choices right out of the gate.

There is talk of a boxed starter set, and that might be more limited in the breadth of character creation options.

But none of this is set in stone yet. We're focused on the system right now.

Quote from: CRKrueger;8159792. Any hints as to how Sorcery will be dangerous?  Corruption mechanic, spell backfires, demonic possession?

Sorcery is one of those systems being worked on now. The goals are "deadly to the body and corrosive to the soul".

Quote from: CRKrueger;8159793. From what I understand, the 2d20 system allows for specific hit locations, what about critical hits and lasting effects?  How crunchy is melee combat going to be?

We're going for something that's visceral yet contains enough detail for specific effects. Once we are happy with the level of abstraction vs. specificity, we'll begin some earnest playtesting and see if we need to refine.

Quote from: Jason D;815193We didn't recruit two Conan/REH experts so we could use Carter/De Camp.

(I'm always torn about those two. Their non-Conan writings are actually kind of enjoyable, if sometimes trashy or derivative, but they're forever going to be defined as "the guys who wrecked Conan".)

Hes the literary equivalent of Asylum movies. I was neutral on Carters Conan books, and then I found out what a dick he was - yeebus does he have it in for Lovecraft.

And its probably for the best that the Thongor movie didnt take off as Thongor himself ended up on another swords-n-science movie. As some fellow named Vader. Wonder how that went? :eek:

Quote from: Jason D;815193We didn't recruit two Conan/REH experts so we could use Carter/De Camp.

(I'm always torn about those two. Their non-Conan writings are actually kind of enjoyable, if sometimes trashy or derivative, but they're forever going to be defined as "the guys who wrecked Conan".)

Hes the literary equivalent of Asylum movies. I was neutral on Carters Conan books, and then I found out what a dick he was - yeebus does he have it in for Lovecraft too.

And its probably for the best that the Thongor movie didnt take off as Thongor himself ended up on another swords-n-science movie. As some fellow named Vader. Wonder how that went? :eek:

Quote from: Omega;816037Hes the literary equivalent of Asylum movies. I was neutral on Carters Conan books, and then I found out what a dick he was - yeebus does he have it in for Lovecraft.

And both Lovecraft and REH were collossally racist pricks, which occasionally poisons their stories. Evaluating the quality of any literary work on the base of the personality of their creators is a dangerous route to travel, because one of its often reached destinations is the "if you like this stuff, you must also be a horrible person, therefore I am so much better than you" moralizing elitist's point of view.

Quote from: Beagle;816049And both Lovecraft and REH were collossally racist pricks.

That's a very broad brush with which to paint these two men.

Quote from: Omega;816037Hes the literary equivalent of Asylum movies. I was neutral on Carters Conan books, and then I found out what a dick he was - yeebus does he have it in for Lovecraft.

That's news to me. How does that square with his writing Lovecraft: A Look Behind The Cthulhu Mythos, which is a fairly positive view of HPL and his work?

Quote from: Jason D;816054That's news to me. How does that square with his writing Lovecraft: A Look Behind The Cthulhu Mythos, which is a fairly positive view of HPL and his work?

The one where he establishes which stories "belong" in the Mythos? Where he all but waxes poetic about Derleth? Ragging on Lovecraft's spelling, bitching about his word count as if it were some sort of literary barometer? yadda yadda.

Mind you, read it ages and ages ago and those are the parts that stuck.

Back on the subject of the new Conan RPG. Any connections or discussions with the folks doing the Conan board game over on Kickstarter? The minis at least would be great for the RPG.

Quote from: Omega;816079Back on the subject of the new Conan RPG. Any connections or discussions with the folks doing the Conan board game over on Kickstarter? The minis at least would be great for the RPG.

From the announcement linked in the first post:

QuoteModiphius is working with other Conan Properties licensing partners including Monolith Board Games, creator of the hit CONAN boardgame which has surpassed $2 million on Kickstarter, and Funcom, creator of the long-running, free-to-play, MMO Age of Conan. Modiphius plans some select supplements including missions designed for the Monolith boardgame, as well as floorplan tile sets allowing you to use Conan miniatures in your roleplaying adventures!

Great. You really have brought this all together well and good to see publishers working with eachother instead of against.

Reminds me I should some day try a reprint of the Equine and Red Shetland RPG based on the Conan parody comics.

Though dont think would try with so much Conan stuff coming out all at once.

Quote from: beeber;814921http://www.modiphius.com/conan.html

using something called the 2d20 system that appears in Mutant Chronicles.  anyone know that one?

I checked out MC3, and only have one comment: This is what happens when you try to make an RPG a wargame, you get an RPG that feels more like a wargame and less like an RPG. It's PLAYED like an RPG but doesn't really FEEL like one. This idea of attribue +skill=target number rolled on 2d20 vs number of successes to BE successful is like playing D&D:
GM: "Okay, you need a 12 to hit AC2"
PC: "I hit!"
GM: "Great! Now roll again to see how successful you were. You need 3 successes, so roll 2-more times and be successful, otherwise you fail."
PC: "No way! Why am I rolling again? I hit!"
GM: This is a new Idea I'm borrowing from Modiphius' 2d20 system."
PC: I hate it. I'm gonna go play GURPS. C-ya!

Quote from: hellraezer;870249I checked out MC3, and only have one comment: This is what happens when you try to make an RPG a wargame, you get an RPG that feels more like a wargame and less like an RPG. It's PLAYED like an RPG but doesn't really FEEL like one. This idea of attribue +skill=target number rolled on 2d20 vs number of successes to BE successful is like playing D&D:
GM: "Okay, you need a 12 to hit AC2"
PC: "I hit!"
GM: "Great! Now roll again to see how successful you were. You need 3 successes, so roll 2-more times and be successful, otherwise you fail."
PC: "No way! Why am I rolling again? I hit!"
GM: This is a new Idea I'm borrowing from Modiphius' 2d20 system."
PC: I hate it. I'm gonna go play GURPS. C-ya!

This is pretty much the exact opposite of how the demo games have gone.

Quote from: Larsdangly;814926Why can't someone figure out how to do what everyone obviously wants: a Conan game for Runequest or some other major, well supported system that is well suited to the genre. We seem to find a way to fuck up nearly every licensed setting.

Both TSR and SJG did take swings at Conan.  Both, eventually, failed.  NO license has been through more hands than Conan, and the record of failure's impressive.

Writing for licensed properties is bearish. The property owners don't want you creating anything that will restrict their freedom of maneuver, and in some cases inexplicably so -- WTF, it wasn't as if by the time MERP was in production that Tolkien was doing any more writing save through a Ouija board, and there are times where I was convinced certain license holders shot things down for the sake of shooting things down.

These things seldom make money. Especially with TV/movie properties, contracts are signed at the peak of the buzz ... and then the show goes out of first run and the movie's out of the theaters. The audience for the likes of Buffy, Firefly, TMNT and Babylon 5, for instance, have dwindled over time. Seriously, can anyone think of a licensed property that became a major, permanent player in the RPG industry other than CoC?

It's also a truism that a lot of hardcore fans will hate with a hot heavy hate any licensed product on the ground that it's not the work they would themselves have written. They hate it when a certain plot element gets included, they hate it if a certain plot element doesn't get included, they hate it when their favorite/hated characters are/are not featured, they hate it when the writers make a presumption about characters or events they themselves wouldn't have made.

Finally, the audience just isn't as large as people think it is. We're not (say) peddling Conan just to gamers. We're not (say) peddling it just to gamers who like pulp fantasy. We're not (say) peddling it just to pulp fantasy gamers who happen to be Conan fans. We're not (say) peddling it just to pulp fantasy gamers who happen to be Conan fans and don't mind this indy system. We're (say) peddling it to pulp fantasy gamers who happen to be Conan fans, don't mind this indy system, and think the writers did a good job. That is not an easy sell, and that breakdown applies to pretty much any licensed game.

My problem with licensed settings is that I generally don't want to run, or play in, anything like a precise recreation. I don't want to play Star Trek I want to play something LIKE Star Trek... positive future, organized exploration, weird aliens and diplomacy. I really don't give two craps if the space elves are called 'Vulcans' or not (though the Star Fleet Battles alt-verse would suit me fine).
The Star Wars games I've played in were all hamstringed by expectations we would be recreating the same stuff as the movies... which ended up feeling like some crappy Ed Wood remake of A New Hope.
With a Conan game I'd want the brutal combat and weird horrors... serpent people and exotic ancient civilizations. I don't really need or want it to have Conan in it... or any of the other stuff that's likely protected as IP. So yeah, RQ6 seems like it would be ideal for that, for me.

My experiences over time are the same as Simlasa's. I have more fun running Conanesque games with Atlantis: The Second Age than with any official Conan RPG (of which I tried many).

Quote from: CRKrueger;814929Oh Crom's Hairy Nutsack,

:D :D

Quote from: Omega;815187Any Conan RPG that uses or references Carter/De Camp is an instant no-sale for me.

Add Robert Jordan to that list for me as well.

I'm also leery of anyone using Funcom's Age of Conan's ideas for the setting.  They've never understood what Sword and Sorcery was.

Quote from: hellraezer;870249It's PLAYED like an RPG but doesn't really FEEL like one. This idea of attribue +skill=target number rolled on 2d20 vs number of successes to BE successful is like playing D&D:

D&D isn't an RPG now?

"GM: "Okay, you need a 12 to hit AC2"
PC: "I hit!"
GM: "Great! Now roll again to see how successful you were. You need 3 successes, so roll 2-more times and be successful, otherwise you fail."

- this is not how 2d20 works. You roll once with your dice to get a number of successes. You then spend the successes (Momentum) to do damage, add more damage, do cool stuff etc

Quote from: Ravenswing;870254Seriously, can anyone think of a licensed property that became a major, permanent player in the RPG industry other than CoC?

My understanding is that Call of Cthulhu is successful because it is not licensed. It is public domain which is why Cthulhu gets into everything. And it is the one modern myth that isn't locked up behind a paywall.

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2015/06/they-took-our-myths.html (http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2015/06/they-took-our-myths.html)

Quote from: Tod13;870306My understanding is that Call of Cthulhu is successful because it is not licensed. It is public domain which is why Cthulhu gets into everything. And it is the one modern myth that isn't locked up behind a paywall.

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2015/06/they-took-our-myths.html (http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2015/06/they-took-our-myths.html)

Although Cthulhu is not as public domain as people think - a lot of what people believe is public was actually created by various authors or Chaosium themselves and so this is actually licensed from them

Quote from: ChrisBirch;870307Although Cthulhu is not as public domain as people think - a lot of what people believe is public was actually created by various authors or Chaosium themselves and so this is actually licensed from them

I'm specifically talking about Cthulhu stuff written by Lovecraft.

Chaosium has the Derleth edited stuff, but most/all (depending on where you live and who you listen to) of Lovecraft's actual work is in the public domain. In the US, that's for sure anything published before 1923.  In Australia, that's everything that Lovecraft wrote. Cthulhutech, for example, references public domain Lovecraft works and states they are still public domain.

And "Cthulhu" itself has always been used by lots of writers. I love the short stories that Lovecraft and (IIRC) Bloch wrote "at each other".

Here's a good starting point for the subject: http://www.aetherial.net/lovecraft/index.html (http://www.aetherial.net/lovecraft/index.html)

WEG Star Wars had a pretty good run for a licensed product.

Quote from: Nexus;870311WEG Star Wars had a pretty good run for a licensed product.

Good call. That's still popular today.

Quote from: Tod13;870306My understanding is that Call of Cthulhu is successful because it is not licensed. It is public domain which is why Cthulhu gets into everything. And it is the one modern myth that isn't locked up behind a paywall.

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2015/06/they-took-our-myths.html (http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2015/06/they-took-our-myths.html)

Lovecraft's stories are in the Public Domain. However, many of the creatures and gods in Call of Cthulhu are not.

The conglomeration of entities and stories that make up Chaosium's version of the Cthulhu Mythos was licensed from Arkham House and is based on the work of many authors other than HPL.

Additionally, some elements of Chaosium's Cthulhu Mythos are owned entirely by them and are designated as original IP, such as the visual depiction of certain creatures, names given them by Sandy Petersen, etc.

Quote from: Nexus;870311WEG Star Wars had a pretty good run for a licensed product.

And Call of Cthulhu. Interestingly, both are extensively supported by prewritten adventures. I think that helps overcome the usual issue with people dealing with licenced material.

Quote from: Skywalker;870321And Call of Cthulhu. .

Oh, I thought the question was aside from CoC.

Quote from: Nexus;870311WEG Star Wars had a pretty good run for a licensed product.

And WEG collapsed for unrelated reasons.

WotC's Star Wars appears to have ended largely because the company couldn't justify making profits on Star Wars when they could spend the same resources and make even more profits on D&D books.

I think CoC works partially because it's based on a fairly loosely associated grouping of short stories rather than a particular series of tales about an individual or group. It also doesn't try too hard to recreate any particular tale. Only a few of Lovecraft's stories involved anything like what usually happens in a CoC session.
There's no worry about who is going to play the Dr. or Buffy or Captain Kirk... there's no single iconic spaceship or location that HAS to feature in the game to convince Players of the setting. It can be set just about anywhere and anywhen you like. The 'canon' is wide open to interpretation.

I'd happily run/play a Star Wars game that didn't feature The Alliance, a Death Star, Jedi, Wookies or light sabers... but I'm thinking most folks would rather have all or most of those elements.

Quote from: Simlasa;870361I think CoC works partially because it's based on a fairly loosely associated grouping of short stories rather than a particular series of tales about an individual or group. It also doesn't try too hard to recreate any particular tale. Only a few of Lovecraft's stories involved anything like what usually happens in a CoC session.
There's no worry about who is going to play the Dr. or Buffy or Captain Kirk... there's no single iconic spaceship or location that HAS to feature in the game to convince Players of the setting. It can be set just about anywhere and anywhen you like. The 'canon' is wide open to interpretation.

I'd happily run/play a Star Wars game that didn't feature The Alliance, a Death Star, Jedi, Wookies or light sabers... but I'm thinking most folks would rather have all or most of those elements.

The thing is, what you're thinking is actually incorrect.  There's been enough Sword and Sorcery types of story that most fans don't want to be Conan or Valeria, but the issue with S&S is deeper than just the types of characters.

First, although D&D is based a lot on Conan's style of world creation (The Forgotten Realms Faerun is a great example, you have Ancient Egypt with Medieval England which is beside a Germanic Barbarian nation so on and so forth), the problem is that the S&S Hero archetype is not a specialist in any one field.  They're broad generalists with a wide range of skills and aptitudes.

Secondly, Magic is always for the NPC's and almost always for the evil ones.  But invariably, a lot of people allow Magic to be taken by the heroes because someone ALWAYS wants to play 'The Wizard'.  (Funcom's Age of Conan for example is guilty of this sort of stuff.)

Thirdly, most adventuring party style fantasy games, like Runequest, D&D, Palladium Fantasy, Dragon Warrior et al. deal in groups larger than 3 for best effects and frankly, that's part of the fun of them.  Unfortunately most Sword and Sorcery heroes rarely gather in groups of more than 2, which make the stories very personal and engaging, but isn't as fun in a gaming environment.

So how do reconcile that?  I have no freakin' clue.  Cuz as much as I love BoL and find that it does a lot of the stuff right, it stumbles a teeny bit on my no.2 and falls over on no.3  All because of how we gamers are used to playing games.

What does any of that got to do with what I just said?

Quote from: Christopher Brady;870371The thing is, what you're thinking is actually incorrect.

Really? You seem to be arguing some entirely different point than I am.
I'm only saying why I think licensed properties often don't work.... you seem to be going on about how an entire sub-genre doesn't fit with RPGs.

QuoteFirst, although D&D is based a lot on Conan's style of world creation (The Forgotten Realms Faerun is a great example, you have Ancient Egypt with Medieval England which is beside a Germanic Barbarian nation so on and so forth), the problem is that the S&S Hero archetype is not a specialist in any one field. They're broad generalists with a wide range of skills and aptitudes.

Do you feel you HAVE to use those settings?
I generally wouldn't use D&D to play a S&S type game anyway, and I certainly wouldn't use any of the 'official' settings... RQ6 or Magic World would be my game of choice. Dungeon Crawl Classics has an expansion, Tales From the Fallen Empire, that would probably be my choice if I went the D&D-ish route.

QuoteSecondly, Magic is always for the NPC's and almost always for the evil ones. But invariably, a lot of people allow Magic to be taken by the heroes because someone ALWAYS wants to play 'The Wizard'.

Call of Cthulhu and other games work fine with magic that PCs can use... but at great risk to themselves. If someone claims they're down for playing in a S&S game then I'd expect they'd be fine with the 'magic is evil' trope as well... or not... play how you want.

QuoteThirdly, most adventuring party style fantasy games, like Runequest, D&D, Palladium Fantasy, Dragon Warrior et al. deal in groups larger than 3 for best effects and frankly, that's part of the fun of them.

So? Same goes for most of the fantasy stuff in 'Appendix N'... and Lovecraft and... most any literature or film that RPGs draw inspiration from. Groups of adventurers seem generally less common than intrepid individuals or pairings. I don't get what the big deal is... that it's not adhering close enough to the sacred canon of 'pure' literary Sword & Sorcery?

QuoteSo how do reconcile that?

I don't feel a need to because I don't think the stuff you refer too is all that much of blockade to playing S&S games.

Quote from: Simlasa;870361There's no worry about who is going to play the Dr. or Buffy or Captain Kirk... there's no single iconic spaceship or location that HAS to feature in the game to convince Players of the setting. It can be set just about anywhere and anywhen you like. The 'canon' is wide open to interpretation.

Yep.

I recall vividly the time a local GM attempted a FASA Star Trek campaign.  The scenario involved our Federation starship and a Klingon vessel contending for a derelict vessel that turned out to be Space Battleship Yamato.  (Seriously.)  In any event, I was the Andorian chief of security who was sent off to be the prizemaster, and of course the Fed and Klingon ships started to spar at the same time a running battle between away teams was happening on Yamato.  And the Klingons are using disruptors on lethal settings, and we're doing that dumb White Hat stunning nonsense ...

And I said, "fuck this," or the equivalent, brought the Wave Motion Gun online, and vaporized the D7, with the GM sullenly muttering about prime directives in the background ...

Of course, that's what's supposed to happen when you send an Andorian Security Officer to secure a powerful battleship. :D  If the captain wanted someone who wouldn't vaporize Klingons, he made a bad choice.

Sounds like your GM was kinda trying to railroad you by artificially limiting options--I doubt there's evidence that Federation Rules of Engagement forbid use of lethal force in self-defense*--but at least was good enough not to get in the way of your decision. Were there consequences later? Either in the campaign...or am I correct in guessing that it killed the campaign? If so, too bad.

*I haven't played any Trek RPGs but while phasers on Stun seem just about as effective tactically as Kill (yes?), if someone's shooting at your ship, it seems irresponsible to reduce your chance of stopping them quickly by just going for a "disable". Also, this wouldn't be a Prime Directive issue, but maybe if the captain did have direct orders from Star Fleet to avoid escalation of conflict, the GM would have a case.

Quote from: Ravenswing;870254Both TSR and SJG did take swings at Conan.  Both, eventually, failed.  

Did they? They were both good games, people enjoyed them and played them.
Ditto the Mongoose version. People also hated them and quibbled, but they were largely fun and are still quite playable.

The key thing about licences, is that they *rarely* make sense to keep licensing once the initial sales rush has passed and the customers have all they want.. and the IPR holder comes back and asks for a new bag of gold.

This is IMHO, the real reason licensed properties tend to move from publisher to publisher, ask Margaret Weiss, she's made it very clear many times..

So, enjoy the game, or hate it, in ten years another will be along, but you can still play the one you own.

As I understand it, the Mongoose Conan license mainly* ended because when it came up for renewal, the price increased significantly due to the new Movie that was in the frame at the time.

YMMV on if that counts as a failure or not.


*The secondary issue is that the right's holder wanted to be able to assign the license per system, so Mongoose would have had to have paid again to do a Runequest version of the game, which was very much in the works.

Quote from: jadrax;870611*The secondary issue is that the right's holder wanted to be able to assign the license per system, so Mongoose would have had to have paid again to do a Runequest version of the game, which was very much in the works.

Kind of...

Mongoose announced an ambitious plan to do some sort of Encyclopedia Hyboria, a deluxe multi-volume gazeteer of all aspects of Conan's world. This was going to be mostly systemless, with the system info at the back or in a conversion volume (I can't remember which). This stepped outside their license in a major way (overlapping rights were held by another company), and the renewal negotiations went south when Mongoose openly discussed on their forums the state of their discussions with CPI.  

The cost increase, the unauthorized project, plus the disclosure, made the whole issue of the Savage Worlds and RuneQuest conversions minor factors in the loss of the license.

The best Conan RPG experience that I've had was using the Mongoose D20 system. A little customization made for a great two-year campaign. The main challenge, healing, was solved by an episodic approach to adventure generation. If played well characters could survive without reliance on much healing beyond the Heal skill, or a couple days of rest. This enhanced the realism of the game significantly.

We did nerf casters completely because they were poorly executed - and really not part of the Howard flavor. That said, when one of the players arrived set upon playing a fireball-casting wizard, and was subsequently told that caster classes weren't an option, he quite the group immediately in a huff.

*shrug*

Quote from: Jason D;870614...
The cost increase, the unauthorized project, plus the disclosure, made the whole issue of the Savage Worlds conversion a minor factor in the loss of the license.

Savage Worlds?  I thought the interest was in producing a RuneQuest 6 version.

Certainly RQ6 would be the perfect system for Conan!

Quote from: Akrasia;871057Savage Worlds?  I thought the interest was in producing a RuneQuest 6 version.

You're right... Vincent Darlage even started work on it. However, both were planned. Matthew Kaiser was one of the authors at work on the Savage Worlds version.  

Here's a thread about it: http://www.pegforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=24974&sid=f72d1c061d3e5d5fd69b2632434c0fc2