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Do you kickstart games you are interested in?

Would you kickstart one of my games? (Hearts & Souls 2E, Derelict Delvers, Cold Chrome Knights, E.o.N: Empire of Night, or others?)


What kind of pledges have you made, and what kinds are you willing to make?


What kind of "rewards" do you expect?

If i pay money for a product, i want to take it home with me or download it there and then.

Much like the ransom model that preceeded it, i don't really like it.

I've done a kickstarter, and supported a few of them.  I don't care much for the really high price weird rewards; I just want the product.  And if it's a book or something similar, I also like a pdf immediately, so I have something to look forward to when the book arrives.

I have to be very interested in a game to sign up for a Kickstart. James' Dwimmermount is the only one so far to do that.

I funded a few projects, yes.

Would you kickstart one of my games? (Hearts & Souls 2E, Derelict Delvers, Cold Chrome Knights, E.o.N: Empire of Night, or others?)

Depends on the detail of the project.

What kind of pledges have you made, and what kinds are you willing to make?

Donated around $50-$100 each time I think. It really depends on the rewards, though. I usually will go for the hardcover or printed version of the work. That's what I fund projects for, really, as far as TRPGs are concerned.

What kind of "rewards" do you expect?

See above. I want a reasonable price for a printed copy. Softcover and hardcover choices are nice. PDF should be there for a low investment for those that want it. Then you put in perks like your characters drawn by this or that artist, or your character name in the adventure or whatnot. The rewards really depend on the type of project, too.

I have yet to pledge to Kickstart or IndieGoGo; there were two things I wanted to pledge, but the budget didn't work out with the timing.

The projects that entice me best are the ones that most resemble a preorder - ie, the product is essentially done and ready to go (just needs print run, or to pay an artist, or whatever).

The rewards?  Most of 'em seem over-the-top to me, but the lower-level ones where you can get in, get the product for a good price?  That's the sweet spot.

I would certainly KS for Hearts & Souls 2E, especially if it meant some really nice art. :)

Quote from: Silverlion;547914Would you kickstart one of my games? (Hearts & Souls 2E, Derelict Delvers, Cold Chrome Knights, E.o.N: Empire of Night, or others?)

I might be interested in backing Derelict Delvers if the buy-in for a PDF is reasonably low and the buzz was good.

Quote from: Silverlion;547914What kind of pledges have you made, and what kinds are you willing to make?

I've backed 5 Kickstarters and the amount I gave depended on what I wanted and expected from my support.

I donated $100 to Traveller 5th Edition (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/traveller5/traveller-5th-edition) and $25 to the Metamorphosis Alpha Roleplaying Game (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jamiechambers/metamorphosis-alpha-roleplaying-game) because I wanted a printed book.  I donated $10 on a whim to Dwimmermount (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/autarch/dwimmermount) because I was curious enough about it that I was willing to pay for a PDF copy, which would probably be about my interest level in Derelict Delvers if I backed it.  With respect to role-playing software, I donated $20 to Tabletop Forge (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/joshuha/tabletop-forge-the-virtual-tabletop-for-google-han) because it's the sort of thing I was looking for in Google+ for online play, which is looking like it may be the only way to get a group together to play regularly these days.  I also donated $70 to Cityographer (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inkwellideas/cityographer-city-generator-and-mapping-software) because I don't yet have pro copies of Dungeonographer and Hexographer and that reward level would let me get those at a good price, too.

Quote from: Silverlion;547914What kind of "rewards" do you expect?

At bare minimum, I'm looking for a PDF, CD-ROM, or book unless the money goes toward backing something that will be available for free.

ADDED: Hmmm.  Looks like there are two John Morrows backing Traveller 5.

I love Kickstarter, maybe too much.

For RPGs, I tend to pledge at the "book" level. I've backed Far West, HERO Champions Villains 3, Curse the Darkness, Deadlands Noir, Blade Raiders, Castles & Crusades PHB 5e, the Second Vicious Crucible(more using KS as a ransom), and Dungeon World

For video games, I pledge at what will get me a digital copy, 'cuz discs are so 20th century: Erythia, Echoes of Eternia, Yogventures, Unemployment Quest, Kitaru, RAiN, Rend, Hiro Fodder, Lilly Looking Through, Word Realms, The Crystal Catacombs, HeXit, and Do You Remember.

The only one of your games that currently interests me is the first one, Hearts & Souls. So if your pitch was nice enough and the 2e was going to be significantly better somehow, sure I'd pledge to that one.

I spend a fair bit of time and money on Kickstarter.  I mostly donate to games, either RPGs or board games.  For Board Games I usually put down enough money to get a physical copy to play, and for RPGs I usually go for the PDF level, because I've got a muckton of RPGs on the shelves and I don't really need more physical copies.

I don't know if I'd support your kickstarter - it would depend on how it's presented and if it appealed, I guess.  I'm afraid I'm not terribly familiar with your work.

I can't use kickstarter as I'm not in the US, but I gave the local replica a whirl and it flopped. I think this model works best when you already have a following willing to put something into your project on trust, out of the blue newcomers won't get anywhere unless they have a very compelling product, like that e-ink watch.

Still I think its a giant leap in the right direction in terms of democratising publishing and artistic endeavours, and moving away from monolithic centralised distribution. These are good times to be alive.

It's a legit way to put out product. It is also seeing a gold rush that will explode in a very ugly way when funded projects fail to materialise, or turn out to be colossal disappointments. The real place this will happen is of course vidya games, but tabletop gaming's bound to be affected. After that, it will go back to normal, maybe.

I have funded one project so far, and only on the PDF level. I don't want the vinyl map. I don't want the gold-level-only character portrait. I don't want NPCs, countries or gods named after me, and I'm not paying for the privilege. I don't want the author to come to my house and run a game for money (although if they are around my area, I may be happy to receive them, of course). In fact, this kind of hucksterism tends to annoy me.

There is a personal project I have been wishing to do for a few years that may materialise one day. It may be funded through Kickstarter, although I am also toying with the idea of just saying fuck it and doing it fanzine-style with my own hands. That means people will like or dislike it on the merits of the ideas and writing - not how well someone does online showbiz or how someone with an MBA monetises the what-fucking-ever.

Quote from: Silverlion;547914Do you kickstart games you are interested in?

Would you kickstart one of my games? (Hearts & Souls 2E, Derelict Delvers, Cold Chrome Knights, E.o.N: Empire of Night, or others?)


What kind of pledges have you made, and what kinds are you willing to make?


What kind of "rewards" do you expect?

Yes, I backed Kickstarter and Indiegogo projects: DungeonMorph Dice, Crypts & Things, The Parsec, and Eldritch Skies. Of your games, I guess I would look into Derelict Delvers.

Usually I go for the smallest print option (softcover) with no rewards, and there were projects that I didn't back because there was only a hardcover option. (And there were projects that I didn't back because shipping to Europe was too high. So Brave Halfling's Kickstarter for Supplement N Adventure Toolkits (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1778492214/appendix-n-adventure-toolkits-dcc-rpg-modules) with free worldwide shipping does look enticing.)

I don't really expect rewards. I'd like to see some samples from the actual project - (mock up) layout pages, illustrations, and sample maps. And if it's a new system some details about mechanics - frequent rolls, a character sheet, combat, a monster stat block.
This is basically the online equivalent of browsing a book in a store.

[Edit:]
There is one type of reward that would work for me: an introductory module for your new game. Especially if there isn't one in your rule book. More so if it's a print edition instead of just a PDF. (Make the PDF a freebie on your homepage when the book is available.)

Quote from: One Horse Town;547918If i pay money for a product, i want to take it home with me or download it there and then.

Much like the ransom model that preceeded it, i don't really like it.

But I would back Stone Horizons in a second, and here I would even go with a hardcover option.

I do kickstart, mostly for PDF products (in fact, all for PDF stuff as they tend to be US based and the postage cost us horrendous to the UK for most things). With regards Hearts and Souls 2E, I'd kickstart that, but the RPG market is busting at the seams with supers and fantasy games right now, so there's a chance it may go unnoticed. Still, worth a punt. We've seen lately that lightning can strike with kickstarters, in terms of making hundreds of percent higher than the kickstart target.

I think Steve Jackson games, with nearly a million dollars for Ogre, will see that and go "Why the hell didn't we do this earlier?"

Probably same with Traveller and Rappan Athuk (Frog God games) and a few others, but for every record breaker there must be dozens of projects that don't hit the target.

For me, the mechanics need to be easy to learn, fast to play, well illustrated and different from everything else out there. A card based RPG, one that integrates with a computer program, diceless... we've seen all that stuff before, but no one really hit gold. Maybe yours will do it?

Quote from: trollock;548035No. I don't support beggars. People used to publish their games without somebody giving them the money in advance.

The gaming industry has changed - publishing a book and then hoping and praying you make enough to cover the costs/pay the rent clearly isn't going to work anymore with such a diverse RPG market (or anywhere near as well as it used to at any rate) hence the rise in PDFs with their reasonably low overheads if you don't go too mad on art. The money for RPGs is definitely out there, the competition is fiercer than its ever been for a slice of it though. (WOTC is finding that out as the D&D name is no longer a guarantee of success.)

Kickstarting for a PDF only might not be successful, but as seen from the success of recent kickstarts, it's a win/win for publisher (guaranteed income) and customer (guaranteed product or money back) to get out of print or desirable stuff in dead tree format. I expect small - medium size rpg firms to take up kickstarters more often. Even firms as 'big' as Mongoose, who regularly have sales of unsold books that must be stacked high in the warehouse.

I suspect from your name that you might already know this stuff.

I feel for you on shipping,Melan,  but that's the one thing everyone I've talked to says "watch out, shipping will KILL you.." on the creator end. Most of that is just the U.S. stuff too. Its a shame there isn't a less costly version of shipping anymore.

I will look into it when I get to that point, if I decide to kickstart.


Thanks everyone so far for the feedback! Good stuff.

I admit I've been hesitant for kickstarters myself, after early "hostage" style works didn't work out for me on the buyer's end. Yet at the same time I've gotten several good books from Khepera for Hellas this way, and Jerry has been an awesome sort all around in involving people in the process.

 I'm looking into a number of things in order to make my "funding," if I go that route to be solid. I also want the games finished, or mostly finished before I get to that point.

I've financed both High Valor and the 1st H&S mostly out of my own pocket, and that's not easy on my end.

 However, I want to improve the art in H&S and get rocking art for Derelict Delvers, to make those games worthwhile to consumers, and if this is the way I have to do it, then so be it.

Anyone who hasn't piped in, I'm still reading and paying attention to this thread.

I've backed a couple of Kickstarters now.

Rewards wise I like things, rather than the "name something after me"/"put my name in the book" stuff. Things can be electronic - extra PDF supplements or whatever - as well as physical, mind.

Generally I'll back an RPG at the printed book level. For Deadlands Noir I've gone higher because I like the little add-ons PEG sell (I usually buy their books at the book+PDF+poker chip level, so I was happy to do the same kind of thing on their Kickstarter).

In general I'm better disposed to Kickstarters that are clear about what they're doing and why they need the money, rather than just looking like pre-sales drives.

Quote from: Silverlion;547914Do you kickstart games you are interested in?

Would you kickstart one of my games? (Hearts & Souls 2E, Derelict Delvers, Cold Chrome Knights, E.o.N: Empire of Night, or others?)


What kind of pledges have you made, and what kinds are you willing to make?


What kind of "rewards" do you expect?

I'm down for CCKs, H&S2, and DD... get them rolling and I'll be there. I've Kickstarted OotS, Dwimmermount, Mermaid Adventures (for the kids), ACKs, the Wierd West minis, Cityographer, and Trav5. Trav5 is my biggest at $150, with Cityographer second at $70, but usually it's around $20-25

Quote from: trollock;548035No. I don't support beggars. People used to publish their games without somebody giving them the money in advance.

I'm not saying you have no right to your opinion, but I just wanted to point out that this business model is not actually new. Folks have sought out investors for projects for a long time now. It's new to our hobby, and this format is new, but the idea and practice of it is not new at all. I personally would not describe it as "begging" since to me it's a perfectly legitimate way to gauge interest and level of commitment to the project. For a niche, fan-based industry it's not actually a bad way to go. All in my opinion, of course, and as always YMMV.

Quote from: Grymbok;548050In general I'm better disposed to Kickstarters that are clear about what they're doing and why they need the money, rather than just looking like pre-sales drives.

I mush prefer the other round tbh, if its presented as 'this is a pre sale, get the book with a small discount' I might consider it.

Sadly most seem to be 'donate some money and get the book for 50% more than retail and a fridge magnet'.

i threw money to eldritch skies too, just enough for a pdf.  i skipped the traveller 5 KS as the rewards didn't make sense to me.  $50/1 (whatever it was) for a cd of the pdf?  no thanks.  i guess $20-40 is my cutoff, plus i only need a digital product these days.  

hoping hulks & horrors sets up sensible KS brackets when j arcane gets that going . . . :D

Quote from: Silverlion;547914Do you kickstart games you are interested in?

Would you kickstart one of my games? (Hearts & Souls 2E, Derelict Delvers, Cold Chrome Knights, E.o.N: Empire of Night, or others?)


What kind of pledges have you made, and what kinds are you willing to make?


What kind of "rewards" do you expect?

I have on a few.  Basically, I like the model.  And when I like the game or project or designer, I have been known to toss 25-100 bucks at it.  And yes, I'd look at your games and think about.

I think I always think about publsihing some of the Guildschool/Celtricia stuff, so in some ways, I am Karmically paying forward...

Quote from: jadrax;548071I mush prefer the other round tbh, if its presented as 'this is a pre sale, get the book with a small discount' I might consider it.

Sadly most seem to be 'donate some money and get the book for 50% more than retail and a fridge magnet'.

I don't have a problem with treating the whole thing as basically a preorder. For instance, I chipped in on Tentacle Bento (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1189988320/tentacle-bento-by-soda-pop-miniatures) (after the project was kicked out of Kickstarter and moved to the company's own site) mostly because I'm still not sure whether the local store is going to carry the game later on. I did throw in a couple of extra euros for promo cards, though.

Quote from: silverlion;547914do you kickstart games you are interested in?

Would you kickstart one of my games? (hearts & souls 2e, derelict delvers, cold chrome knights, e.o.n: Empire of night, or others?)


what kind of pledges have you made, and what kinds are you willing to make?


What kind of "rewards" do you expect?

kickstart my heart!

Quote from: GrimGent;548163I don't have a problem with treating the whole thing as basically a preorder. For instance, I chipped in on Tentacle Bento (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1189988320/tentacle-bento-by-soda-pop-miniatures) (after the project was kicked out of Kickstarter and moved to the company's own site) mostly because I'm still not sure whether the local store is going to carry the game later on. I did throw in a couple of extra euros for promo cards, though.

Yeah, I have no problem with "Kickstarter as Preorder", and I have very rarely kicked in anything more than that...(I am chipping in extra for the Deadlands Noir companion, because Deadlands Noir sounds ginchy to me, and adding in a supplement detailing more of the world? Cool)...but I actively turned down the opportunity to have a character named after me in Streets of Bedlam because I HATE vanity rewards.

Quote from: Melan;548020It's a legit way to put out product. It is also seeing a gold rush that will explode in a very ugly way when funded projects fail to materialise, or turn out to be colossal disappointments. The real place this will happen is of course vidya games, but tabletop gaming's bound to be affected. After that, it will go back to normal, maybe.

I have funded one project so far, and only on the PDF level. I don't want the vinyl map. I don't want the gold-level-only character portrait. I don't want NPCs, countries or gods named after me, and I'm not paying for the privilege. I don't want the author to come to my house and run a game for money (although if they are around my area, I may be happy to receive them, of course). In fact, this kind of hucksterism tends to annoy me.

There is a personal project I have been wishing to do for a few years that may materialise one day. It may be funded through Kickstarter, although I am also toying with the idea of just saying fuck it and doing it fanzine-style with my own hands. That means people will like or dislike it on the merits of the ideas and writing - not how well someone does online showbiz or how someone with an MBA monetises the what-fucking-ever.

Dislike.

I've never had a project on Kickstarter, nor have I ever contributed to one, but I think that its clearly proven itself as a viable medium.

Its a reaction, in part, to the realities of the internet, and is far superior as a way of using the internet to make money than what's going on from some of the dinosaurs out there whining about "piracy".

RPGPundit

I supported the LotFP hardcover on Indiegogo more to support the company than because I needs 4 copies of the hardcover. I will support their next campaign for the cool modules it will produce.

I will most likely support the next ACKS campaign that bobs along on Kickstarter as I'm still kicking myself for finding out too late about the last too.

I think it's a great way for small publishers to connect more closely win their fans.

Quote from: Fiasco;548444I supported the LotFP hardcover on Indiegogo more to support the company than because I needs 4 copies of the hardcover. I will support their next campaign for the cool modules it will produce.

I will most likely support the next ACKS campaign that bobs along on Kickstarter as I'm still kicking myself for finding out too late about the last too.

I think it's a great way for small publishers to connect more closely win their fans.

You can always send me one of the extras! I could use it. I couldn't kickstart half the stuff I wanted this summer, since I'm moving, and having to save towards that.


I find it interesting to note the whole kickstarter process, it seems neat, and fun from my end as ways to get extra cool things for a game I'd already be buying.

I don't have a problem in principle with pre-ordering, or raising money.  Note that while projects not materializing can potentially be an issue, you do get your money back if the target funds are not reached.  

However, in general I am a late adopter.  

I've never supported a kickstarter, and I'm unlikely to.  I will generally wait until something is out for at least a year - possibly several - before trying it out.  I'll read reviews and hear people's thoughts on play before trying it.

Quote from: jhkim;548545However, in general I am a late adopter.  

I've never supported a kickstarter, and I'm unlikely to.  I will generally wait until something is out for at least a year - possibly several - before trying it out.  I'll read reviews and hear people's thoughts on play before trying it.

I am pretty much the same, but I think an established project could sway me. Basically a game line I was already heavily invested into.

Quote from: jadrax;548555I am pretty much the same, but I think an established project could sway me. Basically a game line I was already heavily invested into.

Good point.  Yes, I'd quite possibly do a kickstarter for a game line I was already heavily into.  For example, something for Hellcats & Hockeysticks.  

Actually, inspired by this, I've just funded a kickstarter for the first time:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/906612014/hit-seekers-a-math-game-in-the-music-industry (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/906612014/hit-seekers-a-math-game-in-the-music-industry)

Aaron is a cool guy I just met this February, who is working on an educational role-playing game to use with kids in L.A. schools.  This violates my usual rule, so I guess it shows the attraction.