Quote from: jadrax;5461304th ed: Attack, 3 [w] + ST, Uncompromising, Overbear

Like I'm reading a Money: the Wasting, card.

Interestingly enough, the three part 4e turn structure lines up rather well with the 'precise' language of the phases in MTG

Always found it funny that the start of your turn literally has a phase called "the start of your turn" just in case you got confused. Also people using the wording of the 'Delay' options to get unlimited 'start of turn' phases.

They don't strike me as very buzzworthy.

Any industry (or company) develops language for the purpose of business explanation. Labeling is also essential for measurement.

Sharing this kind of terminology might be someone's idea to engender a feeling of openness of development and community participation, since they know all too well that so many felt 'locked out' with 4E.

This seems to me not an overuse of suit-talk but a failure of marketing to comprehend that this language is not particularly enticing to the customers they want to have.

Quote from: DestroyYouAlot;5461557 days for personal attacks.  Do not call other users minotaurs, you should know better.

Oh no! It's Rand in disguise.

WotC produce lots of great games magic is great for example . 4e was fine for what it did but they should have createrd it as a separate tactics based game shift it ans give it a sci fi feel and fine.
Suitsd are good at running corporations its kind of how capitalism is supposed to work.
The buzzwords like 'big rocks' , 'open kimonos' and the like are really just business speak picked up at east coast colleges and on MBAs . Buzzwords are useful when they summarise a valid concept problematic when they try to introduce complexity where its not required.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;546082the list goes on and on.  If I ever own a company with employees, I'll make buzzwords a sack worthy offense.

We have a "mockable offence" list of words in our office, too.

There's nothing really wrong with jargon, if you need it in your field and it will actually make things clearer, but sometimes... you don't and it doesn't. And then, you're better off with real words.

Quote from: Kord's Boon;546192Like I'm reading a Money: the Wasting, card.

I actually like my mechanics to be solid and clear, and CCG/board game rules design tech can make something much more clear and concise. Collectively, the games industry has learnt a lot over the last few decades, and it's stupid to partition that knowledge away and say "no, it came from the wrong type of game, we should SHUN it and whine that anything using it is NOT AN RPG".

But in my experience of the two, I think WFRP3 was much better at integrating it's components into the game.

Quote from: Benoist;546190Wasn't it part of the motivation of Peter Adkinson when WotC acquired TSR and he backed Ryan Dancey's idea of the OGL, to basically not have D&D trapped at the whim of some sole owner of the IP ever again?

Wonder how much of this was altruism, and how much of it was a subversion on the part of Adkison et al once they sold WotC to Hasbro.

Quote from: Benoist;546190Wasn't it part of the motivation of Peter Adkinson when WotC acquired TSR and he backed Ryan Dancey's idea of the OGL, to basically not have D&D trapped at the whim of some sole owner of the IP ever again?

I thought the OGL was sold as a "let's have everyone else work on settings and whatnot for our IP rather than have us do it all".

Sure, having one sole owner of the IP can suck, but at the same time, that's what we've got now with D&D.  Sure, the 3.0 OGL is still out there, but there's still one property with the name 'D&D'.  And it's owned by a public corporation, which means the bottom line is the only line that's important.

It wouldn't have shocked me in the least that if 3.0 hadn't been so far along in development when Hasbro bought WotC that the suits would have insisted on killing the OGL in the first place.

Quote from: Ladybird;546200We have a "mockable offence" list of words in our office, too.

There's nothing really wrong with jargon, if you need it in your field and it will actually make things clearer, but sometimes... you don't and it doesn't. And then, you're better off with real words.

.

In my experience, way too many people are using buzzwords because there's some sort of assumption that you're supposed to in order to sound all "official".

Quote from: Ladybird;546200it's stupid to partition that knowledge away and say "no, it came from the wrong type of game, we should SHUN it and whine that anything using it is NOT AN RPG".

But in my experience of the two, I think WFRP3 was much better at integrating it's components into the game.

I agree,

How did WFRP3 go about it?

Quote from: Ladybird;546200it's stupid to partition that knowledge away and say "no, it came from the wrong type of game, we should SHUN it and whine that anything using it is NOT AN RPG".

But in my experience of the two, I think WFRP3 was much better at integrating it's components into the game.

I agree,

How did WFRP3 go about it?

Quote from: Marleycat;546075Meh. Whatever, what do you expect in a market driven economy?

I want marketing to help sell a good product. *Not* be the driving force in the creation of  a new product. Note the difference between a product being good and one just being new. I want *gamers* to create it and marketers to sell it. Not marketers telling gamers what to create. I know, I am being naive.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;546203In my experience, way too many people are using buzzwords because there's some sort of assumption that you're supposed to in order to sound all "official".

Have you ever experienced a meeting in manufacturing? Buzzwords are a cult.

Quote from: Kord's Boon;546207I agree,

How did WFRP3 go about it?

Any information that would have been in a book, was on a card. Learnt a new ability? Okay, this card tells you mechanically how to use it (When to use it, natch, is up to the player). Under a status effect? This card tells you how it affects you, and how it gets removed.

Sure, it's the sort of thing that you'd learn over time as you used it enough, but putting it on cards speeds up play the first few times you need it, and prevents mental "rules creep" if you ever forget some of the details, but not the overall structure, for how something works. It's utterly simple (And I've done it myself for other games anyway; cheat sheets for games aren't really new) but it still works great. For reference, I've only played in one (Long) session of WFRP3, and it was a breeze to learn.

The part that really wowed me was the wounds mechanic. Taken a wound? Draw a card. Taken a critical? Flip over one of your wound cards, and the effect is on the back.

I like WFRP1's crits mechanic, but having to pause the action to look something up in the rulebook for longer than a few seconds absolutely kills immersion for me. If something happens in-game, I want to hear the result on the narrative right now, not the flicking of pages in a rulebook.

Quote from: Ladybird;546220The part that really wowed me was the wounds mechanic. Taken a wound? Draw a card. Taken a critical? Flip over one of your wound cards, and the effect is on the back.

I like WFRP1's crits mechanic, but having to pause the action to look something up in the rulebook for longer than a few seconds absolutely kills immersion for me.

Sounds very elegant, and reminds me a bit of pandemic where your team is actually drawing into the threat as the game progresses. Are the crit effects random or is there something in place to make sure the effects comport with the situation?

Speaking of crits, an optional critical hits/fumbles table in 5e might be really nice especially with the 2d20. If you need double 1's or 20's the chances of something extraordinary happening are .5% rather then 10% of the time, and they only happen when you have advantage or disadvantage; which make a lot of sense to me. As a bonus you can elect to not risk a fumble by not taking actions that put you in a compromising situation, which also make a lot of sense.

Quote from: Tetsubo;546219Have you ever experienced a meeting in manufacturing? Buzzwords are a cult.

The only people who take buzzwords seriously are the MBA types who come up with them in the first place.

I've worked in progressively larger corporations over the past 20 years, and I've yet to see a situation where marketing and sales aren't constantly dictating to development.  I used to hear stories about how R&D in some corporations had a large degree of autonomy, but in the era of short term goals R&D is often pillaged for "cost savings".