WotC just can't help it; even in their Infomercial for their 50th Anniversary 'memberberries Merch, they have to ATTACK early D&D and its creators.
#dnd #ttrpg #osr #dnd5e #wotc
wotc just had to virtue signal.
"Look! Look at us! We are so virtuous!"
I think it is pathetically hilarious that they go on about how horrible OD&D is because the people involved were "all male, and all white" while both presenters are male and white. Oh the irony. I hope wotc cans their worthless asses next corporate purge.
Quote from: Omega on February 20, 2024, 01:13:43 AM
wotc just had to virtue signal.
"Look! Look at us! We are so virtuous!"
I think it is pathetically hilarious that they go on about how horrible OD&D is because the people involved were "all male, and all white" while both presenters are male and white. Oh the irony. I hope wotc cans their worthless asses next corporate purge.
Not only that but WOTC just
loves to brag about how inclusive they are. Then they turn around and EXCLUDE early D&D when defining what D&D really is. ::) Inclusive. I do not think it means what they think it means.
Quote from: Exploderwizard on February 20, 2024, 08:07:23 AMNot only that but WOTC just loves to brag about how inclusive they are. Then they turn around and EXCLUDE early D&D when defining what D&D really is. ::) Inclusive. I do not think it means what they think it means.
"Inclusion" has always meant "We now get to decide who is excluded." That's true for everyone that uses the term.
We aren't the customers for the product. Some actual D&D fans may accidentally buy it, but the people WotC are aiming for with it are the people for whom a sly, "Oh, well there's NO WAY we'd approve of this game now..." is a positive rather than a negative. Because if those evil old white dudes were featured in a book and their work was uncritically praised, there's no way they could own such a dark, problematic item. It would be right up there with having Mein Kampf on the coffee table.
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 19, 2024, 11:11:02 PM
WotC just can't help it; even in their Infomercial for their 50th Anniversary 'memberberries Merch, they have to ATTACK early D&D and its creators.
In other news; the Sun rises in the East, fire is hot, and water is wet.
Anyone still getting outraged by what WotC is doing at this point is just looking for a dopamine hit.
Sane people have long ago stopped paying attention to their antics entirely.
Quote from: Chris24601 on February 20, 2024, 04:33:44 PM
Anyone still getting outraged by what WotC is doing at this point is just looking for a dopamine hit.
Sane people have long ago stopped paying attention to their antics entirely.
Yep. Now we just have to wait for everyone to quit talking about WotC all the time.
It looks like the "D&D history" was written by Jon Peterson. I wonder what would be different in that book than what is in his recently published "Game Wizards".
Of course Wizards of the Coast can't resist reminding their "fans" that all D&D books published before 2014 are "problematic." They've been doing it in the disclaimer to their "legacy content" on DriveThruRPG for years, while continuing to sell those products. This is no different.
The whole thing reminds me of Fate of Cthulhu from Evil Hat, which begins with a multi-page screed condemning H.P. Lovecraft (and anyone who enjoys his work) as an unrepentant racist and admonishing the reader against actually enjoying the stories without which the game they're peddling WOULD NOT EXIST.
Apparently, it's okay to profit off the imagination and talent of people you claim are abhorrent, as long as you condemn them loudly enough.
Quote from: Angus MacDeth on February 20, 2024, 06:28:26 PM
Of course Wizards of the Coast can't resist reminding their "fans" that all D&D books published before 2014 are "problematic."
[Puts on Dr. Evil's, #2 man face mask] That too, has happened. WOTC is now calling their own 5th edition product problematic which is why they are doing a crapola revised edition this year.
Quote from: Chris24601 on February 20, 2024, 04:33:44 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 19, 2024, 11:11:02 PM
WotC just can't help it; even in their Infomercial for their 50th Anniversary 'memberberries Merch, they have to ATTACK early D&D and its creators.
In other news; the Sun rises in the East, fire is hot, and water is wet.
Anyone still getting outraged by what WotC is doing at this point is just looking for a dopamine hit.
Sane people have long ago stopped paying attention to their antics entirely.
Greetings!
Right on, Chris! I agree very much.
It admittedly feels kind of strange being so disconnected about WOTC. After all, I have been a loyal customer and fan of TSR since the beginning, and even WOTC since they arrived and established themselves. That is literally *decades*--and even 20 years for WOTC as the comany and steward of D&D.
WOTC's technical, game design, publishing, and marketing failures over the last recent years have been more than sufficient to destroy the relationship. However, I do not ignore or forgive the evil, hate-filled, Marxist philosophies that WOTC have embraced.
I also admit that it feels weird watching a company become hostile, offensive, and even provocatively hateful towards their long-standing fans and customers. I simply realize though that this company, just like so many other companies, have become overthrown by Marxist Globalist, Woke cultists. These assorted people are disposed towards chaos, destruction, and degenerate perversion in everything they do.
So, yeah. Fuck 'em. :D
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
There's a Twitch streamer that I've been catching snippets of in YT shorts. He was an employee at Blizzard and he talked about it's fall from being a great games company. Blizzard started to suck at the same rate that their core designers left. All of those designers went on to create great games afterwards but Blizzard fell off a cliff. "Follow creators, not companies."
"Follow creators, not companies."
That advice was also of great help back when I still actively collected comics as well.
These days, if I'm running I have stable of genre-specific homebrew and other preferred systems that I pull from.
I haven't bought a thing from WotC since before 5e was a thing, and have never had nearly the connection to D&D many here did so the company's already been dead to me for probably as long as I've been posting here.
Quote from: SHARK on February 21, 2024, 05:34:22 AM
It admittedly feels kind of strange being so disconnected about WOTC. After all, I have been a loyal customer and fan of TSR since the beginning, and even WOTC since they arrived and established themselves. That is literally *decades*--and even 20 years for WOTC as the comany and steward of D&D.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I guess you mustn't have been a Games Workshop or Steve Jackson Games fan.
Quote from: SHARK on February 21, 2024, 05:34:22 AM
Quote from: Chris24601 on February 20, 2024, 04:33:44 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 19, 2024, 11:11:02 PM
WotC just can't help it; even in their Infomercial for their 50th Anniversary 'memberberries Merch, they have to ATTACK early D&D and its creators.
In other news; the Sun rises in the East, fire is hot, and water is wet.
Anyone still getting outraged by what WotC is doing at this point is just looking for a dopamine hit.
Sane people have long ago stopped paying attention to their antics entirely.
Dude, don't you want to play the dwarfiest of dwarfs, the elfiest of elfs? I mean we are talking full twink elfs in chaps and DSL's all for 10 year old D&D players that WotC is totally going to get to pay for their VTT?
Hsabro is going Sears in 2 years watch.
Greetings!
Right on, Chris! I agree very much.
It admittedly feels kind of strange being so disconnected about WOTC. After all, I have been a loyal customer and fan of TSR since the beginning, and even WOTC since they arrived and established themselves. That is literally *decades*--and even 20 years for WOTC as the comany and steward of D&D.
WOTC's technical, game design, publishing, and marketing failures over the last recent years have been more than sufficient to destroy the relationship. However, I do not ignore or forgive the evil, hate-filled, Marxist philosophies that WOTC have embraced.
I also admit that it feels weird watching a company become hostile, offensive, and even provocatively hateful towards their long-standing fans and customers. I simply realize though that this company, just like so many other companies, have become overthrown by Marxist Globalist, Woke cultists. These assorted people are disposed towards chaos, destruction, and degenerate perversion in everything they do.
So, yeah. Fuck 'em. :D
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: David Johansen on February 21, 2024, 02:26:05 PM
Quote from: SHARK on February 21, 2024, 05:34:22 AM
It admittedly feels kind of strange being so disconnected about WOTC. After all, I have been a loyal customer and fan of TSR since the beginning, and even WOTC since they arrived and established themselves. That is literally *decades*--and even 20 years for WOTC as the comany and steward of D&D.
I guess you mustn't have been a Games Workshop or Steve Jackson Games fan.
I find it weird to have loyalty to a corporation, especially as a consumer. I played AD&D as a teenager in the 1980s, but I never had any loyalty to T$R. I hated the tournament style trying to make balanced competition, and I never bought any 2nd ed when they censored demons and devils. By then, I had gotten into new games.
I'll buy stuff from a corporation when it's good, but I don't have any loyalty. With WotC, I briefly played 3rd edition, along with a few D20 games in the early 2000s, but mostly I was playing small-press/indie games or homebrew.
I skipped 4th ed, and I got into 5th ed honestly more because of attention here on theRPGsite than anything else.
Even though WotC has mouthed some empty words about politics closer to mine, that doesn't endear me to them. They're just the same soulless corporation, except now they think they can make money off my demographic.
Quote from: jhkim on February 21, 2024, 08:41:53 PM
I find it weird to have loyalty to a corporation, especially as a consumer.
https://goldenarchesunlimited.com/
I mean...
A corporation can buy my loyalty for a mere $1 000 000 per year, after taxes of course. I'm just putin' it out there in case any corporations happen to be listening.
Quote from: Brad on February 21, 2024, 09:12:39 PM
Quote from: jhkim on February 21, 2024, 08:41:53 PM
I find it weird to have loyalty to a corporation, especially as a consumer.
https://goldenarchesunlimited.com/
I mean...
I think the better part of corporate loyalty is millenials wearing Nikes with their airpods on protesting for a $30/hr minimum wage. While just about everything they are wearing is made by child labor who would be lucky to make $30/mo. They could fix that if they fought against globalization and outsourcing and fought to have American factories going again. But such is clownworld.
Quote from: jhkim on February 21, 2024, 08:41:53 PM
I find it weird to have loyalty to a corporation, especially as a consumer.
I don't find it so odd. Being loyal to a person or group is absolutely common, and a corporation is just a group of people organized along specific lines. Folks may be loyal to a corporation because it provides great products, provides great service, enables a community to form, promotes specific lifestyles or values, or is just familiar. I feel like a lot of the antipathy towards WotC is because people gave it their loyalty as "the D&D company" and then it betrayed them by making crap products, attacking its surrounding community, and promoting values repugnant to its most loyal followers. The only thing it really has still going for it is familiarity, and that may be going away with all the changes in 6E
Quote from: Mishihari on February 22, 2024, 04:12:08 AM
Quote from: jhkim on February 21, 2024, 08:41:53 PM
I find it weird to have loyalty to a corporation, especially as a consumer.
I don't find it so odd. Being loyal to a person or group is absolutely common, and a corporation is just a group of people organized along specific lines. Folks may be loyal to a corporation because it provides great products, provides great service, enables a community to form, promotes specific lifestyles or values, or is just familiar. I feel like a lot of the antipathy towards WotC is because people gave it their loyalty as "the D&D company" and then it betrayed them by making crap products, attacking its surrounding community, and promoting values repugnant to its most loyal followers. The only thing it really has still going for it is familiarity, and that may be going away with all the changes in 6E
Greetings!
Absolutely right, Mishihari!
Yes, I know it is fashionable to hate on the "evil corporations" now...though I fondly recall reading Gygax every month in Dragon, along with Kim Mohan, and others, and none of THEM felt alien, or weird, or hostile, in any way. Even early on with WOTC, in Dragon and Dungeon, for example, it felt like they actually cared about the game, the company, the hobby itself, and the fans. Yeah, the paying FANS that make all of these *dream jobs* and *careers* possible.
All of that mattered, and was important.
Until, gradually, that team of stewards, game designers, and managers, was replaced.
They were replaced by people that do not share those values and priorities. And it shows, as you mentioned, in the company's hostility towards traditional fans and traditional values, in their public statements, and in the shit levels of production quality and standards for the books they have produced. Over and over again. After about 6 failures in a row, people start to give up on a company commercially. Then, when you add more of the hot sauce to the taco--*laughing*--you have the absolute disaster we have witnessed for this company.
I must say though, that Woke companies do this all the time. These morons love being despised, mocked, and ultimately broke and poor. A few of course press the eject button with fat payouts--but a large number of these people, regardless of their once-lofty status and placement--end up as unemployed and broke, or maybe working as a barista at a Starbucks. *Laughing*
Burn it to the ground! *Laughing*
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Just another example of jhkimbot being exposed as an AI. Humans in general are intensely factional about pretty much everything. It's like he never went to a college football game before, or tried to convince someone to drink Pepsi instead of Coke. I worked for a marketing company for 12 years and brand loyalty is like 80-90% of the reason customers will keep buying your product, even when it sucks. The most loyal customers will complain and write nastygrams and badmouth cxompanies on social media AND STILL BUY THE PRODUCT. You have to really fuck up to lose those customers. WotC had a built-in customer base with the D&D crowd, and everything going on now is just a demonstration of how badly they handled the property.
So yeah, just another "contrarian to be contrarian" example based on made up non-world experiences.
Quote from: jhkim on February 21, 2024, 08:41:53 PMI find it weird to have loyalty to a corporation, especially as a consumer. I played AD&D as a teenager in the 1980s, but I never had any loyalty to T$R.
For me, it was a matter of finding a lot of products I liked all from one publishing group. In the 1970's I enjoyed OD&D, Metamorphosis Alpha, Boot Hill, eventually AD&D. I don't think I ever said, "I'm loyal to TSR" but I did like their stuff and I was more inclined to buy TSR products sight-unseen than I might from other companies.
Today I enjoy Free League's stuff the best. Vaesen, Tales From The Loop, Alien, 5E LotR, Dragonbane and so on. They will continue to get my dollars until they start churning out products I don't like.
Quote from: jhkim on February 21, 2024, 08:41:53 PM
I find it weird to have loyalty to a corporation, especially as a consumer.
You see it all over. Board games see it alot too. Warhammer cultists being a big one. They will buy a product from a company no matter what they do.
Quote from: Mishihari on February 22, 2024, 04:12:08 AM
Quote from: jhkim on February 21, 2024, 08:41:53 PM
I find it weird to have loyalty to a corporation, especially as a consumer.
I don't find it so odd. Being loyal to a person or group is absolutely common, and a corporation is just a group of people organized along specific lines. Folks may be loyal to a corporation because it provides great products, provides great service, enables a community to form, promotes specific lifestyles or values, or is just familiar. I feel like a lot of the antipathy towards WotC is because people gave it their loyalty as "the D&D company" and then it betrayed them by making crap products, attacking its surrounding community, and promoting values repugnant to its most loyal followers. The only thing it really has still going for it is familiarity, and that may be going away with all the changes in 6E.
To be clear, I don't find it at all weird to have loyalty to a person like Gary Gygax. Or loyalty to a church or other institution that has a fixed set of guiding principles. But a corporation is explicitly a way to make money. That's its purpose. It's not even a group of people, as board members will change and get handed over. I can even understand loyalty to a corporation that is a reliable and ethical employer, fulfilling their purpose well. But as a consumer, yeah, I find corporate loyalty weird even though I know it is common.
It seems particularly weird to be loyal to TSR even as they their best to destroy Gary Gygax, like suing him for spurious copyright infringement over the Dangerous Journeys RPG.
As for WotC, I didn't get any feeling of loyalty to WotC ten or fifteen years ago here on theRPGsite. There was a lot of hate on 4e, which very few people were sticking with out of loyalty - though a few people genuinely liked it.
Quote from: jhkim on February 22, 2024, 02:11:30 PM
Quote from: Mishihari on February 22, 2024, 04:12:08 AM
Quote from: jhkim on February 21, 2024, 08:41:53 PM
I find it weird to have loyalty to a corporation, especially as a consumer.
I don't find it so odd. Being loyal to a person or group is absolutely common, and a corporation is just a group of people organized along specific lines. Folks may be loyal to a corporation because it provides great products, provides great service, enables a community to form, promotes specific lifestyles or values, or is just familiar. I feel like a lot of the antipathy towards WotC is because people gave it their loyalty as "the D&D company" and then it betrayed them by making crap products, attacking its surrounding community, and promoting values repugnant to its most loyal followers. The only thing it really has still going for it is familiarity, and that may be going away with all the changes in 6E.
To be clear, I don't find it at all weird to have loyalty to a person like Gary Gygax. Or loyalty to a church or other institution that has a fixed set of guiding principles. But a corporation is explicitly a way to make money. That's its purpose. It's not even a group of people, as board members will change and get handed over. I can even understand loyalty to a corporation that is a reliable and ethical employer, fulfilling their purpose well. But as a consumer, yeah, I find corporate loyalty weird even though I know it is common.
It seems particularly weird to be loyal to TSR even as they their best to destroy Gary Gygax, like suing him for spurious copyright infringement over the Dangerous Journeys RPG.
As for WotC, I didn't get any feeling of loyalty to WotC ten or fifteen years ago here on theRPGsite. There was a lot of hate on 4e, which very few people were sticking with out of loyalty - though a few people genuinely liked it.
Company loyalty from customers is a bit odd to me too (especially when it continues after productbl or service quality declines); typical brand and customer loyalty on the other hand is at least focused on the product/service.
I think the former may be a corrupted version of the latter two.
People have loyalty to a brand because they can't easily perceive the people behind the curtain. Just look at Blizzard, it took years for them to burn through their community's goodwill even after all of their talent had clearly departed and they were just putting out garbage. People will notice only if a real front and center person like Gygax leaves a company, the rank and file who actually do most of the product work aren't known to the average customer and it can take years before it really dawns on most people that the goose laying the golden eggs is long gone.
Quote from: Valatar on February 22, 2024, 08:20:56 PM
People have loyalty to a brand because they can't easily perceive the people behind the curtain. Just look at Blizzard, it took years for them to burn through their community's goodwill even after all of their talent had clearly departed and they were just putting out garbage. People will notice only if a real front and center person like Gygax leaves a company, the rank and file who actually do most of the product work aren't known to the average customer and it can take years before it really dawns on most people that the goose laying the golden eggs is long gone.
In the case of TSR, not only did Gygax leave -- but TSR actively tried to destroy Gygax's career with lawsuits like when he made Dangerous Journeys.
And over twenty years after TSR folded, people are holding up TSR as "Remember back in the good old days when we could trust and be loyal to a corporation."
Quote from: jhkim on February 22, 2024, 08:54:20 PM
Quote from: Valatar on February 22, 2024, 08:20:56 PM
People have loyalty to a brand because they can't easily perceive the people behind the curtain. Just look at Blizzard, it took years for them to burn through their community's goodwill even after all of their talent had clearly departed and they were just putting out garbage. People will notice only if a real front and center person like Gygax leaves a company, the rank and file who actually do most of the product work aren't known to the average customer and it can take years before it really dawns on most people that the goose laying the golden eggs is long gone.
In the case of TSR, not only did Gygax leave -- but TSR actively tried to destroy Gygax's career with lawsuits like when he made Dangerous Journeys.
And over twenty years after TSR folded, people are holding up TSR as "Remember back in the good old days when we could trust and be loyal to a corporation."
They Sue Regularly
Quote from: jhkim on February 22, 2024, 08:54:20 PM
Quote from: Valatar on February 22, 2024, 08:20:56 PM
People have loyalty to a brand because they can't easily perceive the people behind the curtain. Just look at Blizzard, it took years for them to burn through their community's goodwill even after all of their talent had clearly departed and they were just putting out garbage. People will notice only if a real front and center person like Gygax leaves a company, the rank and file who actually do most of the product work aren't known to the average customer and it can take years before it really dawns on most people that the goose laying the golden eggs is long gone.
In the case of TSR, not only did Gygax leave -- but TSR actively tried to destroy Gygax's career with lawsuits like when he made Dangerous Journeys.
And over twenty years after TSR folded, people are holding up TSR as "Remember back in the good old days when we could trust and be loyal to a corporation."
Gygax did call his first project Dangerous Dimensions and that was just stupid on his part. Whatever the lawsuit was by TSR to stop him from selling to Games Workshop, again stupid on Gygax's part because he should have used what money he had to talk with a good IP lawyer to be able to design a new IP and not be sued by TSR. Whatever he did he failed on it. He also hired that idiot harpy who went after him non-stop. Mind you I never knew Gary at all and this is all hindsite, but god damn man did he make a series of bad business decisions that fucked him over. I like the man and his work, but he rolled a 3 for his Business Acumen.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on February 22, 2024, 11:55:17 PM
Quote from: jhkim on February 22, 2024, 08:54:20 PM
Quote from: Valatar on February 22, 2024, 08:20:56 PM
People have loyalty to a brand because they can't easily perceive the people behind the curtain. Just look at Blizzard, it took years for them to burn through their community's goodwill even after all of their talent had clearly departed and they were just putting out garbage. People will notice only if a real front and center person like Gygax leaves a company, the rank and file who actually do most of the product work aren't known to the average customer and it can take years before it really dawns on most people that the goose laying the golden eggs is long gone.
In the case of TSR, not only did Gygax leave -- but TSR actively tried to destroy Gygax's career with lawsuits like when he made Dangerous Journeys.
And over twenty years after TSR folded, people are holding up TSR as "Remember back in the good old days when we could trust and be loyal to a corporation."
Gygax did call his first project Dangerous Dimensions and that was just stupid on his part. Whatever the lawsuit was by TSR to stop him from selling to Games Workshop, again stupid on Gygax's part because he should have used what money he had to talk with a good IP lawyer to be able to design a new IP and not be sued by TSR. Whatever he did he failed on it. He also hired that idiot harpy who went after him non-stop. Mind you I never knew Gary at all and this is all hindsite, but god damn man did he make a series of bad business decisions that fucked him over. I like the man and his work, but he rolled a 3 for his Business Acumen.
It really is hindsight, I don't think anyone but the most paranoid of people would have expected what happened with Lorraine to occur at the time. To my understanding she was hired at the suggestion of her brother who was and apparently remained a friend of Gary's. The entire point was to help him retake shares and get things back on track by advising him and whatnot. That's not what happened though as history shows.
Of course, Gary made plenty of poor choices other than that.
Well that was Gary's coke phase in LA, so there was that, and his judgement was probably shit having a bunch of tits being shoved in his face to do lines. If he'd have stayed off the stuff, I'm willing to bet TSR might have turned out differently. The 3/3.5 from WotC was good as was the Mike Mearl's edition of 5E was good, but we might have gotten something else if TSR stayed together.
Quote from: Brad on February 22, 2024, 09:21:49 AMI worked for a marketing company for 12 years and brand loyalty is like 80-90% of the reason customers will keep buying your product, even when it sucks. The most loyal customers will complain and write nastygrams and badmouth companies on social media AND STILL BUY THE PRODUCT.
The woman who hired Dylan Mulveney for Bud Light said something very similar in her interview. The idea was that "inclusive" marketing will always increase sales because the previous customer will complain but, ultimately, continue to buy the product while the "inclusive" ads will attract the new customers on top of that.
Of course it didn't work out so well for Bud Light, but I wonder if there is a decline overall in brand loyalty or if Bud Light was an outlier.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on February 23, 2024, 12:53:44 AM
..and his judgement was probably shit having a bunch of tits being shoved in his face...
The number of bad decisions made when a pair of tits are shoved in your face are numerous.
Personal experience.
Quote from: hedgehobbit on February 23, 2024, 08:44:36 AM
Quote from: Brad on February 22, 2024, 09:21:49 AMI worked for a marketing company for 12 years and brand loyalty is like 80-90% of the reason customers will keep buying your product, even when it sucks. The most loyal customers will complain and write nastygrams and badmouth companies on social media AND STILL BUY THE PRODUCT.
The woman who hired Dylan Mulveney for Bud Light said something very similar in her interview. The idea was that "inclusive" marketing will always increase sales because the previous customer will complain but, ultimately, continue to buy the product while the "inclusive" ads will attract the new customers on top of that.
Of course it didn't work out so well for Bud Light, but I wonder if there is a decline overall in brand loyalty or if Bud Light was an outlier.
I suspect the woman who hired Dylan Mulvaney was correct in that brand loyalty would offset a certain level of 'inclusive' marketing. However, in the words of Spinal Tap: It's such a fine line between stupid and clever. She went well beyond stupid in hiring Dylan Mulvaney. Perhaps if she had shown better judgment in her 'inclusive' marketing efforts the majority of loyal customers would have either ignored advertising that might have been modestly annoying to them, or not even noticed it. But she did not do that! She turned it all the way to 11.
Quote from: hedgehobbit on February 23, 2024, 08:44:36 AM
Quote from: Brad on February 22, 2024, 09:21:49 AMI worked for a marketing company for 12 years and brand loyalty is like 80-90% of the reason customers will keep buying your product, even when it sucks. The most loyal customers will complain and write nastygrams and badmouth companies on social media AND STILL BUY THE PRODUCT.
The woman who hired Dylan Mulveney for Bud Light said something very similar in her interview. The idea was that "inclusive" marketing will always increase sales because the previous customer will complain but, ultimately, continue to buy the product while the "inclusive" ads will attract the new customers on top of that.
Of course it didn't work out so well for Bud Light, but I wonder if there is a decline overall in brand loyalty or if Bud Light was an outlier.
The problem the Woke have had of late, pretty much ever since The Bad Orange Man broke their brains by winning, is they lost the ability to be incremental.
As long as things kept creeping their way they felt like thet could take their time and turn things up a single notch at a time.
In D&D's case; use the white male human fighter in slightly mocking ways (ex. he's the dead victim in the art for "raise dead" in 4E) here. Pick art that makes the women uglier there. Add another subversive race to a supplement. Tweak the pantheon a bit to make a deity a little more "21st century Seattle" acceptable.
Just keep moving the Overton Window a little more immoral authoritarian every now and then and they'd get to their utopia eventually and everyone could pat themselves on the back for doing their part.
Then they experienced a setback. Their entire bullshit "arc of history" narrative took a shot to the groin... and so, faced with that, they stopped nudging and started shoving. Shoving as hard and as far as they could to make it as hard as possible to claw back the other direction.
You can't fix Bud Light (or D&D) if it's been destroyed as a brand. They make things so toxic that no one but their fellow travelers would WANT to touch it... effectively preserving (more like embalming) their gains by ensuring no one will care enough to reverse them.
If not for the loss to the Bad Orange Man I think we'd be about 5 years less far along the Wokeness curve and Bud Light would have used some hot lesbians as their recent spokespeople instead of an aggressively flamboyant trans-activist. The legalization of gay marriage would have settled out enough and hot lesbians still have sex appeal to the majority of Bud'd customer base that there'd be grumbling, but not the sheer volume of outrage that resulted.
And we see that across the board on all woke stuff... a complete abandonment of subtlety... and that's been shocking enough to the normies that you get Bud Light's collapse, Disney losing billions (and the value of Star Wars and Marvel all but gone), and the collapse of Hasbro/WotC.
In the summer of 2020 when the race riots were peaking that is when Wotc lost its fucking mind. It put up warnings on all 4E and earlier content on DMsguild and DrivethruRPG to let people know its time to pirate because these guys are asshole. They then moved Mearls off D&D, the guy who made 5E a success. Then they started cutting book production and modules by people who have spent time in RPG development and instead hired on race and put out Prom for D&D module and No Cracker Allowed module, their rules became contradictory and damaging to the game because the people making them don't play the game enough to understand that a 1st level spell that causes disadvantage on a creature and advantage for a player at first level spell is a stupid broke idea.
D&D is fixable, its called letting Hasbro go bankrupt and getting sold off as an entity. We are going into the great depression 2.0, hasbro stock will be bought for pennies on the dollar by a company that weathered the great depression 2.0 and they did based on putting out a good product that people would pay for. I believe we are 5-10 years before Hasbro goes tits up and we get a better IP holder. The best thing that happened to the US is Joe Biden destroying the dollar and putting on the WEF dog collar because all his DEI firms are going bankrupt and he's destroying woke culture one financial quarter at a time.
Quote from: Chris24601 on February 23, 2024, 01:46:19 PM
Quote from: hedgehobbit on February 23, 2024, 08:44:36 AM
Quote from: Brad on February 22, 2024, 09:21:49 AMI worked for a marketing company for 12 years and brand loyalty is like 80-90% of the reason customers will keep buying your product, even when it sucks. The most loyal customers will complain and write nastygrams and badmouth companies on social media AND STILL BUY THE PRODUCT.
The woman who hired Dylan Mulveney for Bud Light said something very similar in her interview. The idea was that "inclusive" marketing will always increase sales because the previous customer will complain but, ultimately, continue to buy the product while the "inclusive" ads will attract the new customers on top of that.
Of course it didn't work out so well for Bud Light, but I wonder if there is a decline overall in brand loyalty or if Bud Light was an outlier.
The problem the Woke have had of late, pretty much ever since The Bad Orange Man broke their brains by winning, is they lost the ability to be incremental.
As long as things kept creeping their way they felt like thet could take their time and turn things up a single notch at a time.
In D&D's case; use the white male human fighter in slightly mocking ways (ex. he's the dead victim in the art for "raise dead" in 4E) here. Pick art that makes the women uglier there. Add another subversive race to a supplement. Tweak the pantheon a bit to make a deity a little more "21st century Seattle" acceptable.
Just keep moving the Overton Window a little more immoral authoritarian every now and then and they'd get to their utopia eventually and everyone could pat themselves on the back for doing their part.
Then they experienced a setback. Their entire bullshit "arc of history" narrative took a shot to the groin... and so, faced with that, they stopped nudging and started shoving. Shoving as hard and as far as they could to make it as hard as possible to claw back the other direction.
You can't fix Bud Light (or D&D) if it's been destroyed as a brand. They make things so toxic that no one but their fellow travelers would WANT to touch it... effectively preserving (more like embalming) their gains by ensuring no one will care enough to reverse them.
If not for the loss to the Bad Orange Man I think we'd be about 5 years less far along the Wokeness curve and Bud Light would have used some hot lesbians as their recent spokespeople instead of an aggressively flamboyant trans-activist. The legalization of gay marriage would have settled out enough and hot lesbians still have sex appeal to the majority of Bud'd customer base that there'd be grumbling, but not the sheer volume of outrage that resulted.
And we see that across the board on all woke stuff... a complete abandonment of subtlety... and that's been shocking enough to the normies that you get Bud Light's collapse, Disney losing billions (and the value of Star Wars and Marvel all but gone), and the collapse of Hasbro/WotC.
This is quite insightful.
Quote from: Chris24601 on February 23, 2024, 01:46:19 PM
Quote from: hedgehobbit on February 23, 2024, 08:44:36 AM
Quote from: Brad on February 22, 2024, 09:21:49 AMI worked for a marketing company for 12 years and brand loyalty is like 80-90% of the reason customers will keep buying your product, even when it sucks. The most loyal customers will complain and write nastygrams and badmouth companies on social media AND STILL BUY THE PRODUCT.
The woman who hired Dylan Mulveney for Bud Light said something very similar in her interview. The idea was that "inclusive" marketing will always increase sales because the previous customer will complain but, ultimately, continue to buy the product while the "inclusive" ads will attract the new customers on top of that.
Of course it didn't work out so well for Bud Light, but I wonder if there is a decline overall in brand loyalty or if Bud Light was an outlier.
The problem the Woke have had of late, pretty much ever since The Bad Orange Man broke their brains by winning, is they lost the ability to be incremental.
As long as things kept creeping their way they felt like thet could take their time and turn things up a single notch at a time.
In D&D's case; use the white male human fighter in slightly mocking ways (ex. he's the dead victim in the art for "raise dead" in 4E) here. Pick art that makes the women uglier there. Add another subversive race to a supplement. Tweak the pantheon a bit to make a deity a little more "21st century Seattle" acceptable.
Just keep moving the Overton Window a little more immoral authoritarian every now and then and they'd get to their utopia eventually and everyone could pat themselves on the back for doing their part.
Then they experienced a setback. Their entire bullshit "arc of history" narrative took a shot to the groin... and so, faced with that, they stopped nudging and started shoving. Shoving as hard and as far as they could to make it as hard as possible to claw back the other direction.
You can't fix Bud Light (or D&D) if it's been destroyed as a brand. They make things so toxic that no one but their fellow travelers would WANT to touch it... effectively preserving (more like embalming) their gains by ensuring no one will care enough to reverse them.
If not for the loss to the Bad Orange Man I think we'd be about 5 years less far along the Wokeness curve and Bud Light would have used some hot lesbians as their recent spokespeople instead of an aggressively flamboyant trans-activist. The legalization of gay marriage would have settled out enough and hot lesbians still have sex appeal to the majority of Bud'd customer base that there'd be grumbling, but not the sheer volume of outrage that resulted.
And we see that across the board on all woke stuff... a complete abandonment of subtlety... and that's been shocking enough to the normies that you get Bud Light's collapse, Disney losing billions (and the value of Star Wars and Marvel all but gone), and the collapse of Hasbro/WotC.
Excellent post.
But to hear it told by the resident apologist around these parts? TSR excising demons and devils (which they never did-renamed them sure) only to add them later is far worse than WOTC actually removing text from PDFs. As it whole sale editing and changing text.
That one was crazy when people go to the lengths to justify.
How does this relate? It only seems to matter what content is remove in terms of agreement.
But to round back, you're on the right track.
This whole thing is just disgusting and stinks of jealousy. That aside, the "interview" was insanely racist.
Quote from: Angus MacDeth on February 20, 2024, 06:28:26 PM
Of course Wizards of the Coast can't resist reminding their "fans" that all D&D books published before 2014 are "problematic." They've been doing it in the disclaimer to their "legacy content" on DriveThruRPG for years, while continuing to sell those products. This is no different.
The whole thing reminds me of Fate of Cthulhu from Evil Hat, which begins with a multi-page screed condemning H.P. Lovecraft (and anyone who enjoys his work) as an unrepentant racist and admonishing the reader against actually enjoying the stories without which the game they're peddling WOULD NOT EXIST.
Apparently, it's okay to profit off the imagination and talent of people you claim are abhorrent, as long as you condemn them loudly enough.
They're also one of those companies that want to use the Pulp setting, but make the gumshoes and adventurers women, because verisimilitude or respect for the genre loses to 2024 politics.
Quote from: Angus MacDeth on February 20, 2024, 06:28:26 PM
The whole thing reminds me of Fate of Cthulhu from Evil Hat, which begins with a multi-page screed condemning H.P. Lovecraft (and anyone who enjoys his work) as an unrepentant racist and admonishing the reader against actually enjoying the stories without which the game they're peddling WOULD NOT EXIST.
Trying to catch up here some. Does anyone have a timestamp or transcript about the attack from WotC that's being referred to in this thread? Pundit doesn't give a link with his video. I think the link below is the video in question, but it's forty minutes and I haven't watched it yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhxVlgehNpc
I can give a reference to Fate of Cthulhu. This is the disclaimer from page 6:
(https://darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/theory/race/fate-of-cthulhu-page-6.png)
The next page goes on to character creation rules.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on February 22, 2024, 09:05:18 PM
Quote from: jhkim on February 22, 2024, 08:54:20 PM
Quote from: Valatar on February 22, 2024, 08:20:56 PM
People have loyalty to a brand because they can't easily perceive the people behind the curtain. Just look at Blizzard, it took years for them to burn through their community's goodwill even after all of their talent had clearly departed and they were just putting out garbage. People will notice only if a real front and center person like Gygax leaves a company, the rank and file who actually do most of the product work aren't known to the average customer and it can take years before it really dawns on most people that the goose laying the golden eggs is long gone.
In the case of TSR, not only did Gygax leave -- but TSR actively tried to destroy Gygax's career with lawsuits like when he made Dangerous Journeys.
And over twenty years after TSR folded, people are holding up TSR as "Remember back in the good old days when we could trust and be loyal to a corporation."
They Sue Regularly
And to this day there are morons who believe that was all Gygax's doing.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on February 22, 2024, 11:55:17 PMHe also hired that idiot harpy who went after him non-stop.
Gygax did not hire Loraine. The Blumes did and gave her shares in the company so they could oust Gygax. Loraine eventually booted them as Kevin Blume was the root of many of TSR's financial troubles.
Quote from: Grognard GM on February 24, 2024, 12:29:44 AM
Quote from: Angus MacDeth on February 20, 2024, 06:28:26 PM
Of course Wizards of the Coast can't resist reminding their "fans" that all D&D books published before 2014 are "problematic." They've been doing it in the disclaimer to their "legacy content" on DriveThruRPG for years, while continuing to sell those products. This is no different.
The whole thing reminds me of Fate of Cthulhu from Evil Hat, which begins with a multi-page screed condemning H.P. Lovecraft (and anyone who enjoys his work) as an unrepentant racist and admonishing the reader against actually enjoying the stories without which the game they're peddling WOULD NOT EXIST.
Apparently, it's okay to profit off the imagination and talent of people you claim are abhorrent, as long as you condemn them loudly enough.
They're also one of those companies that want to use the Pulp setting, but make the gumshoes and adventurers women, because verisimilitude or respect for the genre loses to 2024 politics.
There were female pulp heroes way back.
Thing is modern WotC can not even imagine things like that and so instead they will find something with a guy in it and defile it.
Quote from: Omega on February 24, 2024, 02:25:35 AM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on February 22, 2024, 11:55:17 PMHe also hired that idiot harpy who went after him non-stop.
Gygax did not hire Loraine. The Blumes did and gave her shares in the company so they could oust Gygax. Loraine eventually booted them as Kevin Blume was the root of many of TSR's financial troubles.
Gygax bought Lorraine in and hired her.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorraine_Williams
Quote from: Omega on February 24, 2024, 02:33:11 AM
Quote from: Grognard GM on February 24, 2024, 12:29:44 AM
Quote from: Angus MacDeth on February 20, 2024, 06:28:26 PM
Of course Wizards of the Coast can't resist reminding their "fans" that all D&D books published before 2014 are "problematic." They've been doing it in the disclaimer to their "legacy content" on DriveThruRPG for years, while continuing to sell those products. This is no different.
The whole thing reminds me of Fate of Cthulhu from Evil Hat, which begins with a multi-page screed condemning H.P. Lovecraft (and anyone who enjoys his work) as an unrepentant racist and admonishing the reader against actually enjoying the stories without which the game they're peddling WOULD NOT EXIST.
Apparently, it's okay to profit off the imagination and talent of people you claim are abhorrent, as long as you condemn them loudly enough.
They're also one of those companies that want to use the Pulp setting, but make the gumshoes and adventurers women, because verisimilitude or respect for the genre loses to 2024 politics.
There were female pulp heroes way back.
Thing is modern WotC can not even imagine things like that and so instead they will find something with a guy in it and defile it.
Please don't be obtuse.
They were plucky secretaries, hot femme fatales, and the occasional jungle gal in a bikini. They weren't burly lesbian engineers, female PI's punching gangsters out, and Indiana-Jones-but-with-tits characters.
The D&D/Modern Audience effect has every game system having female Sheriffs, Female Special Forces, and female Knights. Hell even in setting where there ARE rarish females in those professions, why use outliers for the pregen sheet art and blurbs if not for ideology? They're supposed to be representative, not exceptions.
Another common Pulp trope was the female reporter, but, as you said, such characters didn't duke it out with a villain, but instead used their wits to escape dangerous situations. Modern writers want women to be brawny and dumb. The villains have to be even greater idiots, so the women can win.
It doesn't bother me when a game presents female heroes. What is irritating is when an established personality is replaced with Folgers crystals as if had always been that way. Leftists do not have any talent or ability to create brand new culturally relevant characters that resonate with mainstream society so they endlessly try to re-define established beloved characters.Hollywood is so overflowing with leftist shits that all they can do anymore is endless sequels and remakes based on the original work done by someone with creativity.
Quote from: jhkim on February 24, 2024, 01:55:20 AM
Trying to catch up here some. Does anyone have a timestamp or transcript about the attack from WotC that's being referred to in this thread? Pundit doesn't give a link with his video. I think the link below is the video in question, but it's forty minutes and I haven't watched it yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhxVlgehNpc
It's at the 35-minute mark.
On a note related to another part of this thread, did anyone else see that Evil Hat got the
Tomb Raider license? I have only a passing familiarity with the franchise, but that seems like something of a mismatch of company and property ...
Quote from: Grognard GM on February 24, 2024, 03:31:28 AM
Quote from: Omega on February 24, 2024, 02:33:11 AM
Quote from: Grognard GM on February 24, 2024, 12:29:44 AM
Quote from: Angus MacDeth on February 20, 2024, 06:28:26 PM
Of course Wizards of the Coast can't resist reminding their "fans" that all D&D books published before 2014 are "problematic." They've been doing it in the disclaimer to their "legacy content" on DriveThruRPG for years, while continuing to sell those products. This is no different.
The whole thing reminds me of Fate of Cthulhu from Evil Hat, which begins with a multi-page screed condemning H.P. Lovecraft (and anyone who enjoys his work) as an unrepentant racist and admonishing the reader against actually enjoying the stories without which the game they're peddling WOULD NOT EXIST.
Apparently, it's okay to profit off the imagination and talent of people you claim are abhorrent, as long as you condemn them loudly enough.
They're also one of those companies that want to use the Pulp setting, but make the gumshoes and adventurers women, because verisimilitude or respect for the genre loses to 2024 politics.
There were female pulp heroes way back.
Thing is modern WotC can not even imagine things like that and so instead they will find something with a guy in it and defile it.
Please don't be obtuse.
They were plucky secretaries, hot femme fatales, and the occasional jungle gal in a bikini. They weren't burly lesbian engineers, female PI's punching gangsters out, and Indiana-Jones-but-with-tits characters.
The D&D/Modern Audience effect has every game system having female Sheriffs, Female Special Forces, and female Knights. Hell even in setting where there ARE rarish females in those professions, why use outliers for the pregen sheet art and blurbs if not for ideology? They're supposed to be representative, not exceptions.
1936 Domino Lady
1937 Sheena
1944ish Señorita Scorpion
1937 Gerry Carlyle, Interplanetary Huntress
There's a few more, not many it's true and never as popular as the male heroes but they existed beyond the damsel in distress, secretary or femme fatale tropes.
Quote from: Armchair Gamer on February 24, 2024, 09:20:24 AM
Quote from: jhkim on February 24, 2024, 01:55:20 AM
Trying to catch up here some. Does anyone have a timestamp or transcript about the attack from WotC that's being referred to in this thread? Pundit doesn't give a link with his video. I think the link below is the video in question, but it's forty minutes and I haven't watched it yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhxVlgehNpc
It's at the 35-minute mark.
Thanks, Armchair Gamer. In case anyone is like me and doesn't like sitting through long videos, here's a transcript of that section:
QuoteI have a a lot of fond memories of these early years of the game. It felt like I was the right person to be making this. It's important that this is a historical document. It was a different time.
We've had an inclusivity review of all these materials. Let's take a step back here and clarify. There are materials in original Dungeons and Dragons that would never pass yeah our inclusivity reviews today. Some of it you can understand like... these are a bunch of war gamers and they're using armies from history. So when they create a warrior class for Dungeons and Dragons they call it the fighting man, because that's what they were used to. They were all men... they were all white dudes from Lake Geneva and the Twin Cities.
That's just the tip of the iceberg. A lot of material in this book -- and I won't go over all of it -- but it would not pass our inclusivity reviews today. We couldn't change it... it's history. What we can do is acknowledge it and show how far we've come because that's not D&D anymore. D&D gets more diverse and has a larger audience every day. The more diverse the game becomes, the more people of different genders and ethnic backgrounds and and faiths see themselves in the game. Then they go make their own versions of the game and more players start to see themselves represented in the game. The more diverse the creators get, the more diverse the players become. That's the way it should be. So this book is very interesting because I think it really highlights how far the audience has come.
How the game has changed over the 50 years -- like we were talking about earlier. How it's played, who plays it, and how it's created... In many ways the way that it's created is the part that changed the least because a huge driver in early DND was fan creations. That's still true today still true today. I find it very interesting and and very exciting to see how the game has grown, how the audience has grown, how we as creators as designers have learned from the past. Both what to do and what not to do.
I think this book has a lot to teach us, but it's also just fun to see. There is a a kind of grognard collector's desire for these materials, but also I honestly believe -- and you know you can blame my ears in the classroom for this but -- I honestly believe that people just want to know more about this thing that they love. Most of our players have never played any addition of D&D other than fifth. This is the only version of D&D they've ever known. Where did this cool game come from how was it made? What's the story? I got your story right here.
What stands out to me is that the one example is something that Gygax himself turned around on. Yes, original D&D had "Fighting Man" -- and there was Len Lakofka's embarrassing article on adding women to D&D in The Dragon #3 (1976). But by 1978, Gygax had changed "Fighting Man" to gender-neutral "Fighter" and wrote the Player's Handbook using "he or she" throughout, as well as text references like "Patriarch or Matriarch" for an 8th level cleric.
People often forget that Little Orphan Annie had a mean right hook in the comic strips.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on February 22, 2024, 12:14:33 AM
I think the better part of corporate loyalty is millenials wearing Nikes with their airpods on protesting for a $30/hr minimum wage. While just about everything they are wearing is made by child labor who would be lucky to make $30/mo. They could fix that if they fought against globalization and outsourcing and fought to have American factories going again. But such is clownworld.
This right here.
Stupid people are their own worst enemies.
Quote from: jhkim on February 24, 2024, 12:47:38 PM
What stands out to me is that the one example is something that Gygax himself turned around on. Yes, original D&D had "Fighting Man" -- and there was Len Lakofka's embarrassing article on adding women to D&D in The Dragon #3 (1976). But by 1978, Gygax had changed "Fighting Man" to gender-neutral "Fighter" and wrote the Player's Handbook using "he or she" throughout, as well as text references like "Patriarch or Matriarch" for an 8th level cleric.
Vader: If only you knew the power of the OSR. Obi-Woke never told you the truth about Gygax, did he?
Luke: He told me enough. He told me has was a sexist and a racist!
Vader: No. Gygax changed "fighting man" to "fighter" and used "he or she" in the books.
Luke: [shocked] No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!
Vader: Search your feelings. You know it to be true.
Luke: NOOOO! All of my friends who have never read those books TOLD me Gygax was a Nazi! He must be!
Vader: Luke, you can destroy the Wizard of the Woke. He has foreseen this. It is your destiny. Join the OSR, and together, we can gatekeep the hobby!
[Luke looks down the shaft and then back at Vader]
Vader: Come with me. It is the only way.
[Luke lets go of the projection and falls into the shaft]
Luke: REEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Quote from: Armchair Gamer on February 24, 2024, 09:20:24 AM
...
It's at the 35-minute mark.
On a note related to another part of this thread, did anyone else see that Evil Hat got the Tomb Raider license? I have only a passing familiarity with the franchise, but that seems like something of a mismatch of company and property ...
Not really.
Crystal Dynamics is internally woke as fuck. They've been slowly "de-sexualizing" Lara Croft ever since they gained control of the IP.
Going to Evil Hat for the RPG is just par for the course at this point.
Quote from: jhkim on February 24, 2024, 12:47:38 PM
What stands out to me is that the one example is something that Gygax himself turned around on. Yes, original D&D had "Fighting Man" -- and there was Len Lakofka's embarrassing article on adding women to D&D in The Dragon #3 (1976). But by 1978, Gygax had changed "Fighting Man" to gender-neutral "Fighter" and wrote the Player's Handbook using "he or she" throughout, as well as text references like "Patriarch or Matriarch" for an 8th level cleric.
Yeah but Gary was still awfully White and heterosexual.
The MONSTER!!!
Quote from: Aglondir on February 26, 2024, 07:03:01 PM[Luke lets go of the projection and falls into the shaft]
Luke: REEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Luke: "
I may appear to be descending a slippery slope, but let me assure you that it's just a conspiracy theory..."
Quote from: Jaeger on February 26, 2024, 07:44:07 PM
Not really.
Crystal Dynamics is internally woke as fuck. They've been slowly "de-sexualizing" Lara Croft ever since they gained control of the IP.
Going to Evil Hat for the RPG is just par for the course at this point.
OK, that makes a lot more sense. Like I said, I only have a passing familiarity with the property, and even then, I'd noticed some of the 'evolution' of the character, so I should have considered it was part of a general trend.
Quote from: DocJones on February 26, 2024, 09:08:10 PM
Quote from: jhkim on February 24, 2024, 12:47:38 PM
What stands out to me is that the one example is something that Gygax himself turned around on. Yes, original D&D had "Fighting Man" -- and there was Len Lakofka's embarrassing article on adding women to D&D in The Dragon #3 (1976). But by 1978, Gygax had changed "Fighting Man" to gender-neutral "Fighter" and wrote the Player's Handbook using "he or she" throughout, as well as text references like "Patriarch or Matriarch" for an 8th level cleric.
Yeah but Gary was still awfully White and heterosexual.
So?
Quote from: blackstone on February 27, 2024, 09:44:32 AM
Quote from: DocJones on February 26, 2024, 09:08:10 PM
Quote from: jhkim on February 24, 2024, 12:47:38 PM
What stands out to me is that the one example is something that Gygax himself turned around on. Yes, original D&D had "Fighting Man" -- and there was Len Lakofka's embarrassing article on adding women to D&D in The Dragon #3 (1976). But by 1978, Gygax had changed "Fighting Man" to gender-neutral "Fighter" and wrote the Player's Handbook using "he or she" throughout, as well as text references like "Patriarch or Matriarch" for an 8th level cleric.
Yeah but Gary was still awfully White and heterosexual.
So?
Well according the race marxists that are teaching our children thats unforgivable, worse he liked weapons, weapons I tell you and he committed the cardinal sin he actual shot a rifle, can you imagine?
If you want to get an idea of the f'd up world the race marxists are building for us, watch pcycho pass, very good future dystopian anime.
Don't forget that he was also a Christian, and even moreso in his later years. That's unforgivable.