Alright I get real tired of looking at the WORLD OF DARKNESS books that sit on our shelves.
Think I sold my first one in several weeks this past Saturday. That universe never quite appealed to me - no matter how much it was explained to me by the V:TM or V:tR players.
How about we 'flip' that universe ? ...and make a new RPG setting?
Let's call it the "World of Brightness". In this setting there is an uipcoming big change that will improve the world and humankind in general. Some experrts (NPCs) have found clues and hints of that ....and are trying to recruit others to help bring about this change or encourage it.
Of course there are "bad guys" - those that also kjnow some kind of big change is coming - but they don't want it to happen. They like the status quo.
There might be what Kyle aaron calls "kool powerz" - but there doesn't have to be. If there are special powers and abilities - then they are a bit unpredictable or need a technological device of some kind to help control or limit them.
Thats another facet of the setting : Science and scientists are seen as the good guys or at least as the usual ally of the good guys.
This sort of setting would be sent in the near future or even VERY near future of 'just next year'.
- Ed C.
One way could be "The 4400" or "Heroes" route.
Or maybe the 2001 or David Brin's Uplift style?
Awesome. The Big Transformation is beginning to leak into our world, giving some brave forerunners nifty powers in the process. But where would the Global Cabal be when peace reigns on Earth? No more arms or drugs trades, or people trafficking for starters...so it's on.
Scion would work perfectly with this.
You want a "World of Brightness"? OK:
The stars were shifting in alignment, and slowly, but surely, it was happening. People were manifesting wonderful powers: some to heal, some to protect, some to find truth, others to have visions of the future. And every single one of us could fly.
And we knew, those of us who had been affected, that the great change was going to come to ALL mankind, because all of us were created equal. None of us is more special, though our gifts may be different.
For some few, knowledge of this drove them mad; thinking that they were the only "special ones" who deserved to be gifted (because they thought of themselves as greater thinkers, or better artists, or prettier, or simply superior) they have now banded together in the shadows and seek out sinister ways of trying to stop the gifting, so that only they will get the power and get to keep it for themselves. They will try to use dark magic and fringe religion, and drive the world into a superstition where only they have power and they are the "natural elite".
We are the Lodge. In it, we are all equal, and everyone who is free and of good report may join. We are dedicated to make sure that the next step in human evolution goes to ALL human beings, to rid ourselves of popes and kings and tyrants, and not let a band of criminal pretentious elitists try to become the new tyrants peddling a lie that they are better than everyone else and that other human beings are just their chattel in a pointless world. We have Science and Reason as weapons to help us, we work in the light, not in the darkness, and Democracy is our strength. And we're going to kick these Swines' asses.
RPGPundit
To explain MY world of brightness, Koltar:
Quote from: Koltar;275352How about we 'flip' that universe ? ...and make a new RPG setting?
Let's call it the "World of Brightness". In this setting there is an uipcoming big change that will improve the world and humankind in general. Some experrts (NPCs) have found clues and hints of that ....and are trying to recruit others to help bring about this change or encourage it.
Ok, I'm with you there.
QuoteOf course there are "bad guys" - those that also kjnow some kind of big change is coming - but they don't want it to happen. They like the status quo.
Here's where you miss an important point. In the WoD, the whole point is that the change happens, but only to the Special Secret Few, the ones who are just better than the rest of mankind (who are nothing more than chattel). This feeds into the pathetic fantasies of the Swine wankers in thinking that they were born better and are more artistic and more intellectual and think deeper thoughts and are just generally more "Special" than anyone else.
However, they get persecuted by the rest of the world which "doesn't understand" them and "envies" them.
So in a World of Light, what you have to have is that "the change" is known and revealed to the world by a group of people who want to be sure that "the change" will belong to everyone. And the big bad guys obviously have to be the elitists that want to be Special, and want to keep the "unwashed masses" from having it.
Just like in WoD the "Bad guys" are a thinly-veiled cover of the bullies and "conformists" and evil parents who "don't understand" how cool and special the Swine are, in the WoL the bad guys would have to be the Swine themselves, trying to set themselves up above their fellow human beings by virtue of things that in fact are not special at all, but everyone has or will have, unless the Swine STEAL what is not theirs by right.
QuoteThere might be what Kyle aaron calls "kool powerz" - but there doesn't have to be. If there are special powers and abilities - then they are a bit unpredictable or need a technological device of some kind to help control or limit them.
Again, no. In WoD, Kool Powerz are rare and belong to the special few. In the WoL, you would want
everyone to be getting powers (albeit possibly start while this is still slowly happening). And the powers should NOT be unpredictable at all. They should be completely consistent and predictable, because they are a quantifiable natural force, and not a supernatural anti-science "weirdness" that proves science wrong somehow.
QuoteThats another facet of the setting : Science and scientists are seen as the good guys or at least as the usual ally of the good guys.
Yes.
RPGPundit
I kind of have something like this in the works (albeit on the back burner). Let's see....Cover:
(http://www.hinterwelt.com/echo/images/echo-cover.jpg)
Concept:
QuoteSo, the basic premise:
The world ended in 1944 when a Nazi scientist named Johann Eckhert detonated a super weapon. He thought he was testing it but it turned out the Gestapo had linked vast amounts of spiritual energy to it in hopes of enhancing its power. Despite the apparent lack of a nuclear like explosion, merely the destruction of the lab and all his staff, the actual effect was far larger. The universe, in a blink of an eye, was wiped out. Like a fading echo, the aftershocks are the reality we currently live in.
If you question it too closely, you will slip out of existence.
If you believe something strongly enough, it will be so (UFOs, witchcraft, ghosts). This is called the "Echo Effect" by those who know better.
Before all this, many universes lived in parallel but subordinate space with our (the Prime) universe. Individuals from those worlds could sometimes manifest themselves in our world, as ghosts or supernatural beings. However, this was a rare and exceptional event, both short lived and usually fatal for those attempting it. Since the End, the Echo People as they are called, have an easier time of it. They are able to pass to our world both as ghostly "spirits" and some, as corporeal beings. Some are on our side to save our world while others work against us.
Meta Discussion
The players would be:
Paranormal investigators fighting individual Echo People with no knowledge of the grand scheme of things. They could have powers but there should be a system where you can "believe" your weapons/equipment are more powerful. Essentially, mind over matter. This would be the Dresden Files that Jim was talking about.
Part of an organization (there would be several) of individuals fighting for calming the Echo and stabilizing our universe if not outright restoring it. Some theories on this point would include getting to Eckhert, he is somehow the key to all this. Reassembling Eckhert's machine which should have Echo effects built into them. Defeating as many of the Echo people and forcing them from our reality as possible. Related to this would be that the Echo People are believed to have a machine that is increasing the Echo.
Magic casters in the real world. Essentially, runnign around with Echo Effects causing problems. This would be the most boring idea in my opinion but hey, I could see some folks getting off on it.
So, you I could see it easily being a "battle for light" kind of thing.
I think it'd involve something like Care Bears.
Really, really intense Care Bears.
This is The World of Brightness. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2150_AD)
Pundit, I think your version and my half-baked idea can meet somewhere in the middle. You did help refine my thoughts.
What I'm looking for is a Positive! setting thats fun to play in....and set in contemporary times.
Also, I am kind of sick of WoD.
- Ed C.
Quote from: KenHR;275405I think it'd involve something like Care Bears.
Really, really intense Care Bears.
I was going to say smurfs, but Ken is right: Care Bears.
Care Bears with mad skillz.
Quote from: HinterWelt;275389I kind of have something like this in the works (albeit on the back burner). Let's see....Cover:
(http://www.hinterwelt.com/echo/images/echo-cover.jpg)
Concept:
So, you I could see it easily being a "battle for light" kind of thing.
That sounds like a really interesting premise for a game, Hinterwelt, but it also sounds more like the kind of thing that would belong in the WoD than the "opposite" of the WoD.
I would think that one essential element of the WW games is that things are heading toward an inevitable doom. It was in Vampire, Werewolf, Wraith, and more or less in Mage.
So a "World of Light" game is one where the world is heading toward a new Golden Age, as long as the PCs can make sure that it doesn't get prevented by the Swine.
RPGPundit
Isn't this Azumanga Daioh?
Quote from: Koltar;275447Pundit, I think your version and my half-baked idea can meet somewhere in the middle. You did help refine my thoughts.
What I'm looking for is a Positive! setting thats fun to play in....and set in contemporary times.
Also, I am kind of sick of WoD.
- Ed C.
A positive setting in contemprary times.
That gave me a headache just thinking about it.
It also illustrates just how negative most game settings are. Most of the time PCs are struggling to maintain the status quo (LotR, for example).
Of course, a negative setting gives a scenario-rich environment. I'm working on my next campaign, using Flying Mice's 'modern alternate' setting, and I'm getting my ideas from the news.
I think the difficult part would be establishing a positive that is widely accepted. Its easy to sell the idea of something as bad (they kill you/enslave you/use you as breeding hosts), but good? Tough sell.
An interesting concept. It'll give me something to think about at work.
Quote from: Koltar;275447Pundit, I think your version and my half-baked idea can meet somewhere in the middle. You did help refine my thoughts.
What I'm looking for is a Positive! setting thats fun to play in....and set in contemporary times.
Also, I am kind of sick of WoD.
- Ed C.
I suppose I'm the only one who thinks this would be boring. No conflict = no fun.
And Koltar, you don't have permission to be sick of WoD. You can hate it with a fiery passion, but since you don't actually play the game, you can't really be
sick of it in the same manner that, for instance, I am.
So there!
Even before I worked at a game store I was 'sick' of it.
(That would be a LONG story better done maybe in off-topic)
It got worse with people trying to 'sell' me on it at the store.
- Ed C.
I like the concept, but in function I think that this type of setting would fall flat, or be stale. You can't have ultimate good without ultimate evil, or vice-versa.
Quote from: Koltar;275464Even before I worked at a game store I was 'sick' of it.
(That would be a LONG story better done maybe in off-topic)
It got worse with people trying to 'sell' me on it at the store.
- Ed C.
What do you do when a customer asks you about it?
Quote from: Koltar;275447What I'm looking for is a Positive! setting thats fun to play in....and set in contemporary times.
Also, I am kind of sick of WoD.
- Ed C.
If you are just doing this as a reaction to WoD, then your best bet is a parody of that setting and game and/or players.
If you are trying to do a
Positive! setting thats fun to play in and set in contemporary times, then you first have to define what that
Positive! setting ideology is. A really good start would be for you to tell us what you think is
Positive!
Hmmm - http://www.bigheadpress.com/tpbtgn?page=0 No?
I reckon if there's care bears then there must be ponies.
Quote from: RPGPundit;275453That sounds like a really interesting premise for a game, Hinterwelt, but it also sounds more like the kind of thing that would belong in the WoD than the "opposite" of the WoD.
I would think that one essential element of the WW games is that things are heading toward an inevitable doom. It was in Vampire, Werewolf, Wraith, and more or less in Mage.
So a "World of Light" game is one where the world is heading toward a new Golden Age, as long as the PCs can make sure that it doesn't get prevented by the Swine.
RPGPundit
See, and I am still working the idea. I may have overstated the "doom" part. Really, the doom part has already happened, the PCs are fighting to keep from fading to nothing. So, might not fit 100% but it sounded kind of like what you were outlining (or related to it anyway). That's what made me thing of it.
ETA: I was also thinking along the lines of "not blood sucking nightmare creatures". The PCs in the game are just ordinary folks who have been "enlightened" but could be anyone and everyone. So, you have humans getting the ability to bend the rules of the universe and not super-heroes with fangs.
The OP brought Children of Fire (http://www.mimgames.com/cof/) to mind. A free RPG, never played it. It's about angels going about doing angelic politicking between factions, coming down to Earth to look after things, fighting demons, etc..
Quote from: jswa;275467What do you do when a customer asks you about it?
If thats what they are interested in - then I put my biases aside and be as informative as I can.
Point out the new releases for that line etc...
Tell them What I've heard WoD players say about various books.
Wonderful thing a memory - I can file away things and use them later . Things other customers have said about a game - even if I don't play that game.
- Ed C.
Quote from: RPGPundit;275370You want a "World of Brightness"? OK:
The stars were shifting in alignment, and slowly, but surely, it was happening. People were manifesting wonderful powers: some to heal, some to protect, some to find truth, others to have visions of the future. And every single one of us could fly.
And we knew, those of us who had been affected, that the great change was going to come to ALL mankind, because all of us were created equal. None of us is more special, though our gifts may be different.
For some few, knowledge of this drove them mad; thinking that they were the only "special ones" who deserved to be gifted (because they thought of themselves as greater thinkers, or better artists, or prettier, or simply superior) they have now banded together in the shadows and seek out sinister ways of trying to stop the gifting, so that only they will get the power and get to keep it for themselves. They will try to use dark magic and fringe religion, and drive the world into a superstition where only they have power and they are the "natural elite".
We are the Lodge. In it, we are all equal, and everyone who is free and of good report may join. We are dedicated to make sure that the next step in human evolution goes to ALL human beings, to rid ourselves of popes and kings and tyrants, and not let a band of criminal pretentious elitists try to become the new tyrants peddling a lie that they are better than everyone else and that other human beings are just their chattel in a pointless world. We have Science and Reason as weapons to help us, we work in the light, not in the darkness, and Democracy is our strength. And we're going to kick these Swines' asses.
RPGPundit
Tone down the ass-kicking part a bit, and what do we have?
Blue Rose.
:emot-rimshot:
Quote from: Pierce Inverarity;275502Tone down the ass-kicking part a bit, and what do we have?
Blue Rose.
That's part of the reason why I wanted to know what Koltar meant by
Positive! One man's
Positive! is another man's yaoi fantasy.
Well I definately did NOT mean Blue Rose type setting.
- Ed C.
Quote from: Koltar;275506Well I definately did NOT mean Blue Rose type setting.
- Ed C.
Right, so what
did you mean?
The guy who ran a
2150 AD themed D&D game in my High School did it because he thought the book had a lot of good ideas for living and used it as the basis for a game to demonstrate those. The rest of us thought it was a bunch of hippieshit that made D&D un-fun when applied.
There's a d20 adventure that was put out by Penumbra/Atlas Games called
Splintered Peace. The adventure centers around saving a city from an external threat of marauding orcs while also dealing with the internal threat of racial tensions between the demihumans. It gets a little heavy-handed with the racial tolerance message at times, but it is a "positive" message that is playable as written for this adventure. So its possible.
Quote from: Koltar;275506Well I definately did NOT mean Blue Rose type setting.
- Ed C.
Yeah well, that's what you claim NOW, Christmas Koltar...
Quote from: Pierce Inverarity;275502Tone down the ass-kicking part a bit, and what do we have?
Blue Rose.
:emot-rimshot:
Hardly. Blue Rose is all about an elite (the ones the Magic Deer deems "light aligned") getting to keep control away from the unwashed masses.
RPGPundit
Quote from: Premier;275491The OP brought Children of Fire (http://www.mimgames.com/cof/) to mind. A free RPG, never played it. It's about angels going about doing angelic politicking between factions, coming down to Earth to look after things, fighting demons, etc..
Not really the same though - and, in fact,the angels aren't saints either.
Have you seen the "Prophecy" movies? They make vampires look tame.
I pondered the basic idea quite a lot, and I think that Koltar has either had a stroke of genius, or he's been breathing pewter dust from minis too long. ;)
I'm setting up a 'good dominant/on offense, a particular type of evil out-gunned & desperate' twist to a campaign.
Koltar, you do good work!
:hatsoff:
Run it four-colour supers. Your job isn't just to punch the bad guys; it's to help everyone believe they can, too.
Here's (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=415099) something slightly different I wrote, as inspired by the same phrase.
Quote from: RPGPundit;275370You want a "World of Brightness"? OK:
The stars were shifting in alignment, and slowly, but surely, it was happening. People were manifesting wonderful powers: some to heal, some to protect, some to find truth, others to have visions of the future. And every single one of us could fly.
And we knew, those of us who had been affected, that the great change was going to come to ALL mankind, because all of us were created equal. None of us is more special, though our gifts may be different.
For some few, knowledge of this drove them mad; thinking that they were the only "special ones" who deserved to be gifted (because they thought of themselves as greater thinkers, or better artists, or prettier, or simply superior) they have now banded together in the shadows and seek out sinister ways of trying to stop the gifting, so that only they will get the power and get to keep it for themselves. They will try to use dark magic and fringe religion, and drive the world into a superstition where only they have power and they are the "natural elite".
We are the Lodge. In it, we are all equal, and everyone who is free and of good report may join. We are dedicated to make sure that the next step in human evolution goes to ALL human beings, to rid ourselves of popes and kings and tyrants, and not let a band of criminal pretentious elitists try to become the new tyrants peddling a lie that they are better than everyone else and that other human beings are just their chattel in a pointless world. We have Science and Reason as weapons to help us, we work in the light, not in the darkness, and Democracy is our strength. And we're going to kick these Swines' asses.
RPGPundit
No easy way to say this...you're a closet leftist. :D
EDIT: OMG, the pipe, the mask...that explains...
(http://kassandraproject.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/ezln_subcomandante_marcos_mexico.jpg)
He might be a 'leftist' - I'm not one, but more oftren than not Pundit's opinions on gaming and mine tend to overlap in preferences.
Pundit, in general had the right idea and close to what I'm thinking about.
Even tho in this proposed setting "Good" has a great shot at winning in the long run - the players won't know that.
Think World War II for comparison - did the Allies actually know the moment and day when things started to turn fior the better? Or was that recognized or acknowledged weeks , months, or even years later.
- Ed C.
Quote from: Age of Fable;275701No easy way to say this...you're a closet leftist. :D
Traditional leftism is egalitarian, at least in principle, but (post)modern leftism is derived from the Gramscian and Frankfurt school critique, explaining the failure of revolutionary forces in Europe during the Great War, that the masses don't know what's good for them (due to false consciousness, Christianity etc), and thus need to be led by an enlightened elite. You see this in all kinds of modern leftist thought, Environmentalism is a good example. So is the EU. Pundit's views by contrast seem close to those of the Libertarian Marxists such as at Spiked! http://www.spiked-online.com/ - formerly Living Marxism.
Quote from: S'mon;275722Traditional leftism is egalitarian,
Try telling that Lenin, bucko.
Quote from: Pierce Inverarity;275723Try telling that Lenin, bucko.
I'm sure he'd agree with me. In principle.
Personally I'm more of a traditionalist these days. Constitutional monarchy FTW.
Quote from: Age of Fable;275701No easy way to say this...you're a closet leftist. :D
EDIT: OMG, the pipe, the mask...that explains...
(http://kassandraproject.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/ezln_subcomandante_marcos_mexico.jpg)
Inasmuch as Classical Liberalism, Enlightenment-era (Masonic) democratic values can be seen as "leftist" (as in, left of Monarchism, autocracy, fascism or theocracy), then I guess I would be "leftist".
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;275729Inasmuch as Classical Liberalism, Enlightenment-era (Masonic) democratic values can be seen as "leftist" (as in, left of Monarchism, autocracy, fascism or theocracy), then I guess I would be "leftist".
RPGPundit
Well if you define it
that way - then I might be one too.
- Ed C.
Quote from: S'mon;275722Traditional leftism is egalitarian, at least in principle, but (post)modern leftism is derived from the Gramscian and Frankfurt school critique, explaining the failure of revolutionary forces in Europe during the Great War, that the masses don't know what's good for them (due to false consciousness, Christianity etc), and thus need to be led by an enlightened elite.
Oh yeah...I forgot about that. I was at the meeting where that was decided. It was pretty controversial. Or at least it would have been, if we weren't so authoritarian.
Its hard to deny that Gramsci has been one of the foremost influences on modern leftists. That's the pity, because there is a whole other tradition of progressive though that put individual freedom at the very forefront. And now instead we have this situation where if you're "progressive" you're a collectivist, and if you're for individual liberty, then you're some kind of nutwing reactionary.
Which pretty much somes up why most left-wingers think I'm terribly conservative and most right-wingers think I'm a radical leftist.
RPGPundit
Quote from: Age of Fable;275762Oh yeah...I forgot about that. I was at the meeting where that was decided. It was pretty controversial. Or at least it would have been, if we weren't so authoritarian.
You obviously didn't get the memo that only Right forces can be Authoritarian. :p
Quote from: RPGPundit;275771Its hard to deny that Gramsci has been one of the foremost influences on modern leftists. That's the pity, because there is a whole other tradition of progressive though that put individual freedom at the very forefront. And now instead we have this situation where if you're "progressive" you're a collectivist, and if you're for individual liberty, then you're some kind of nutwing reactionary.
Which pretty much somes up why most left-wingers think I'm terribly conservative and most right-wingers think I'm a radical leftist.
RPGPundit
It didn't take Gramsci to define left politics as fundamentally class-based, hence collective. That's right there in Marx. If anything, in the past decades that broad base for solidarity has been atomized into micro-collectivities by "progressive" identity politics. In turn, given your liberty vs. lockstep thing, what you are is no mystery either, Snowflake. You're a 1950s-type liberal humanist. That position is still pretty popular out there.
Quote from: RPGPundit;275370You want a "World of Brightness"? OK:
The stars were shifting in alignment, and slowly, but surely, it was happening. People were manifesting wonderful powers: some to heal, some to protect, some to find truth, others to have visions of the future. And every single one of us could fly.
And we knew, those of us who had been affected, that the great change was going to come to ALL mankind, because all of us were created equal. None of us is more special, though our gifts may be different.
For some few, knowledge of this drove them mad; thinking that they were the only "special ones" who deserved to be gifted (because they thought of themselves as greater thinkers, or better artists, or prettier, or simply superior) they have now banded together in the shadows and seek out sinister ways of trying to stop the gifting, so that only they will get the power and get to keep it for themselves. They will try to use dark magic and fringe religion, and drive the world into a superstition where only they have power and they are the "natural elite".
We are the Lodge. In it, we are all equal, and everyone who is free and of good report may join. We are dedicated to make sure that the next step in human evolution goes to ALL human beings, to rid ourselves of popes and kings and tyrants, and not let a band of criminal pretentious elitists try to become the new tyrants peddling a lie that they are better than everyone else and that other human beings are just their chattel in a pointless world. We have Science and Reason as weapons to help us, we work in the light, not in the darkness, and Democracy is our strength. And we're going to kick these Swines' asses.
RPGPundit
This actually sounds exactly like the Technocracy from Mage: the Ascension. They originally weren't the good guys but later on in the canon, the Traditions and the Technocracy joined forces against the nihilistic Nephandi.
Quote from: KrakaJak;275786This actually sounds exactly like the Technocracy from Mage: the Ascension. They originally weren't the good guys but later on in the canon, the Traditions and the Technocracy joined forces against the nihilistic Nephandi.
How I understand it, the Technocracy wanted everyone to be relatively secure and safe, but at the cost of taking away the wonder from existence; while the wonderful different special snowflake mages were the ones fighting for a world where reality was totally bendable to their wills and they'd get to rule over the worthless peasants who no one gave a fuck about anyways.
RPGPundit
Quote from: Pierce Inverarity;275780It didn't take Gramsci to define left politics as fundamentally class-based, hence collective. That's right there in Marx. If anything, in the past decades that broad base for solidarity has been atomized into micro-collectivities by "progressive" identity politics.
The difference is that Gramsci managed to infiltrate way further into leftist "strategy" in democratic countries, in ways Marx couldn't really do.
RPGPundit
It might be helpful to move away from titles and define positions - Which does define what you think titles mean...
For example, I'm for the individual being able to take any action, without 'enforced' consequences, which has no been defined as 'illegal' by a democratic process.
Enforced consequences would be 'legal' consequences enforced by a democratically-created jurisdictional 'group'.
Democratic would mean that the rules are created according to the 'will of the majority' - That is, what most people want is what most people get. This does include electing people to represent your interests.
As for illegal, I think anything which has a non-consensual negative impact on another person should be illegal, for a broad-base definition. I would include 'voluntary' slavery under that definition, because slavery is inherently non-consensual. On the other hand, smoking does have a negative impact, but can easily be confined to the person smoking - For example, someone smoking in an open-air area does not have a measurable/provable negative impact on anyone else.
I also call myself an 'environmentalist', insofar as I think we should take care to preserve and repair natural resources, within the boundaries explained above - With special care for those which are 'unique'.
Quote from: RPGPundit;275846How I understand it, the Technocracy wanted everyone to be relatively secure and safe, but at the cost of taking away the wonder from existence; while the wonderful different special snowflake mages were the ones fighting for a world where reality was totally bendable to their wills and they'd get to rule over the worthless peasants who no one gave a fuck about anyways.
RPGPundit
Nope, they both wanted to completely awaken humanity, but were doing it by different means.
The Technocracy tried to work within the Consensus (i.e. the self imposed limited reality of the Sleepers i.e. good old mankind) by disguising Magic as sufficiently advanced technology. By bringing magic to the sleepers on terms they could accept they would improve life for everyone involved. They believe this is the safer path and destroying the Consensus would drop the world into chaos.
Tradition Mages wanted to shatter the Consensus and destroy the Gauntlet completely. This would destroy the rift between humans and their higher selves so that all Mankind would become as Mages and ascend (hence the title of the game).
It was this disagreement in ideology that originally caused the rift between the Technocracy and the Traditions. Again, later in the canon, after the Avatar Storm cut them both off from their Avatars/Genius, the Traditions and the Technocracy joined forces against the Nephandi.
Quote from: RPGPundit;275370You want a "World of Brightness"? OK:
The stars were shifting in alignment, and slowly, but surely, it was happening. People were manifesting wonderful powers: some to heal, some to protect, some to find truth, others to have visions of the future. And every single one of us could fly.
And we knew, those of us who had been affected, that the great change was going to come to ALL mankind, because all of us were created equal. None of us is more special, though our gifts may be different.
For some few, knowledge of this drove them mad; thinking that they were the only "special ones" who deserved to be gifted (because they thought of themselves as greater thinkers, or better artists, or prettier, or simply superior) they have now banded together in the shadows and seek out sinister ways of trying to stop the gifting, so that only they will get the power and get to keep it for themselves. They will try to use dark magic and fringe religion, and drive the world into a superstition where only they have power and they are the "natural elite".
We are the Lodge. In it, we are all equal, and everyone who is free and of good report may join. We are dedicated to make sure that the next step in human evolution goes to ALL human beings, to rid ourselves of popes and kings and tyrants, and not let a band of criminal pretentious elitists try to become the new tyrants peddling a lie that they are better than everyone else and that other human beings are just their chattel in a pointless world. We have Science and Reason as weapons to help us, we work in the light, not in the darkness, and Democracy is our strength. And we're going to kick these Swines' asses.
RPGPundit
My world of brightness would be rather like the real world, except better. People would have equal opportunities to succeed regardless of sex, race, or their social status at birth. The characters would occupy positions they had acquired through merit and the recognition of society. Their skills would be the result of years of study and experience. The antagonists would be egotistical, superstitious, and largely unaccomplished misfits (whose sense of entitlement leads them to strike out at the world that fails to give them the acclamation they feel they deserve).
This is of course intended to be almost exactly the opposite of nearly every White Wolf game.
.....Okay if we can get away from the political definitions sidetrack....Over on the Goldenrod & Fluffy I started a thread like this one with a similiar OP.
Here is some stuff I posted over there:
QuoteQoltar's post #31: The 'conflict" is the Bad guys or adversaries that don't want the big change to happen...plus the usual obsatacles in getting anything to - happen: people being petty, bureacracy, traffic jams, natural disasters, unexpected violent encounters with factions not related to the 'bad guys', awkward romances, love triangles, ....
VS.
the "Good Guys" or player characters and their allies...
Also.....
QuoteEd's post #41: There is nothing wrong with optimism in a game setting.
The players should know that if they screw up the "Big Change" might not happen or might be squelched by the bad guys.
The "Bad Guys"/adversaries have resources at their command and would rather things stay the way they are. The "Good Guys" CAN eventualy win ouyt with creativity and a little organization amongst themselves.
The hints the GM gives should give indication that as things improves the team and othjers become even MORE coinnected with humanity and others around them. Even though in a game like GURPS this would have to be portrayed as powers or ability - in the gamespeak of the setting these are natural abilties and talents just now being recognized becauise of whats about to happen.
All of the "New stuff" is not Magic, but natural or scientififc in characteristics. Its able to be studied and predicted under the right circumstances. Thats part of the reason the scientists start to be a factor in the campaign and major allies of the player characters.
...and this....:
QuoteGame Store Guy's post #43: Unlike World Of Darkness, this is a world where good things are possible and are actually likely to happen.
Instead of an impending variation on "Judgement Day" , the good guys know there is upcoming GOOD something or other if the right things happen. It just needs several little and big nudges from Hero types to actually happen.
Think The Prize" idea from HIGHLANDER - just without having to chop heads all the time. That kind of an impact....without magic involved.
- Ed C.
Quote from: hgjs;275965My world of brightness would be rather like the real world, except better. People would have equal opportunities to succeed regardless of sex, race, or their social status at birth. The characters would occupy positions they had acquired through merit and the recognition of society. Their skills would be the result of years of study and experience. The antagonists would be egotistical, superstitious, and largely unaccomplished misfits (whose sense of entitlement leads them to strike out at the world that fails to give them the acclamation they feel they deserve).
This is of course intended to be almost exactly the opposite of nearly every White Wolf game.
Yup, which is basically the mold I was going for in my example.
RPGPundit
Quote from: KrakaJak;275786This actually sounds exactly like the Technocracy from Mage: the Ascension. They originally weren't the good guys but later on in the canon, the Traditions and the Technocracy joined forces against the nihilistic Nephandi.
The Technocracy (or the "Order of Reason", as they were known until the 19th century) arguably started out with the best of intentions, arming ordinary people against the supernatural and bringing the chaos of the Mythic Age under control, but eventually they lost sight of their original noble goals after coming to the conclusion that common humanity couldn't be trusted to take care of itself. What made them the villains of the game was that they had one vision for the entire universe, and anyone who didn't fit into their designs had to be eliminated. True magic in the hands of anyone other than the Technocrats was the ultimate thought crime, naturally enough, and so any mage who wouldn't convert to their cause would be an enemy. And of course,
everyone was a potential mage: what defined all Sleepers was that they could Awaken, but hadn't... yet.
(The
new World of Darkness is another story altogether. Not only did
Mage: The Awakening get rid of ideology as a weapon in battles over consensual reality, but nWoD as a whole has moved away from global conspiracies.)
Just thought of a possible sidenote or backstory for this setting idea: The new discovery was faciliatated BECAUSE we have a space station in orbit.
Somehow the intense mapping and orbital pictures of Earth helped a few scientists and talented amateurs piece together something 'major'. They just had to step back and have a chance to see the really BIG picture. (or would that be "stepping up" into orbit?)
As I said before this campaign or campaign setting would be very Pro-science and scientist.
- Ed C.
Afterthought: Should I have started or posted this thread in the Design sub forum instead? I am never quite sure if my rough draft ideas fit there or not since somehow I got the thought into my head that sub-forum was just for designers, writers, and publishers of RPGs.
I would start with the idea that a two-fisted Boy Scout would be a good thing to be.
Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;276819I would start with the idea that a two-fisted Boy Scout would be a good thing to be.
...but in a GOOD way, of course.
- Ed C.
Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;276819I would start with the idea that a two-fisted Boy Scout would be a good thing to be.
Yes, and that an nihilist weirdo-outcast "poet" who wants to be outside of normal society and hasn't done anything to deserve power but has it anyways is NOT something good to be.
RPGPundit
Quote from: Soylent Green;275355... or David Brin's Uplift style?
As a fan of his Uplift books, I ran a campaign in a bastardised version of the setting a while back to some success that ran in a similar vein to some of what RPGPundit was saying.
Quote from: RPGPunditIn the WoL, you would want everyone to be getting powers (albeit possibly start while this is still slowly happening). And the powers should NOT be unpredictable at all. They should be completely consistent and predictable, because they are a quantifiable natural force, and not a supernatural anti-science "weirdness" that proves science wrong somehow.
Essentially the Aliens had been discovered by the scientists, first contact had been successfully and peacefully made and the population of Earth was given the gifts to remove poverty (basically a Transmet-styled Maker that could make anything from any waste matter was given to all people) and sickness (better medical science stuff).
Given that conflict is one of the main drivers for gaming in the circles I play in, I had the transition cause considerable (but not catastrophic) social upheaval. This was borne out of things like: money, trade and agriculture being suddenly not important as anyone could just 'Make' it; xenophobia; religious disillusionment/fervour; national governments collapsing in favour for a (ultimately) benevolent global one. I also had various opposing factions within the massive multi-alien galactic spanning civilisations, some of which (for a variety of reasons) were against human integration (or just opposing those alien species involved out of millennia long habit).
So in the context of the game, the most likely outcome of the game was basically a "better" version of today but the players were able to try and make that come about faster/more easily or have some influential part in the supposed history.
For their part, the players chose to start off being bodyguards/liaisons to recently arrived diplomat and/or tourist aliens visiting Earth.
Also, science, religion and western civilization would not necessarily be bad, and minorities, political radicals, and non-Europeans would not necessarily be good.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;277258Also, science, religion and western civilization would not necessarily be bad, and minorities, political radicals, and non-Europeans would not necessarily be good.
RPGPundit
That makes sense.
Finally a setting where every ethnic minority or sub-culture has an equal shot at being either hero or villain.
Veery much in the spirit of what I was hoping for.
- Ed C.
Also, the law would apply equally to everyone, in both benefits, restrictions and punishments. No-one would get off because they were famous or rich or a member of a government. (See sig)
I can sum it up with one word: Lensman.
Lensmen is 'eugenics is good'. It's the supermen ruling over the 'mundanes' and thus *Not* what we're talking about.
Many, many moons ago, I dreamed up a bright, optimistic SFRPG setting that I called "The Human League".* It was kind of a Morlocks/Eloi thing, wherein one side of humanity -the so-called Human League-was developing a technological utopia, and the other -much more numerous- side had returned to a tribal society.
The twist? The science guys were the good guys. The touchy-feely neo-hippies were increasingly violent and mistrustful, and were devolving into barbarism; they'd attack Human League settlements and laboratories out of general principle, not really understanding why they did it anymore. Meanwhile, the good guys kept plugging right away, trying to clean up the environment, accept civic responsibility, expand the frontiers of scientific knowledge, etc. In essence, they'd cowboyed up and accepted what it means to be human, and what they could do to make the best of it.
Not very gameable, so I dropped it.
*I was once asked if there'd be a Kajagoogoo supplement. Ha, ha, ha. I kind of asked for that one, though...
One gameable setting in such a civilization would be a 'Star Patrol' style game - There's always people who choose crime; civilization may be a utopia, but your job is to make sure the termites don't chew down the foundation.
Plus, there's always external threats.
Also, first contact teams.
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!;277298Many, many moons ago, I dreamed up a bright, optimistic SFRPG setting that I called "The Human League".* It was kind of a Morlocks/Eloi thing, wherein one side of humanity -the so-called Human League-was developing a technological utopia, and the other -much more numerous- side had returned to a tribal society.
The twist? The science guys were the good guys. The touchy-feely neo-hippies were increasingly violent and mistrustful, and were devolving into barbarism; they'd attack Human League settlements and laboratories out of general principle, not really understanding why they did it anymore. Meanwhile, the good guys kept plugging right away, trying to clean up the environment, accept civic responsibility, expand the frontiers of scientific knowledge, etc. In essence, they'd cowboyed up and accepted what it means to be human, and what they could do to make the best of it.
Not very gameable, so I dropped it.
*I was once asked if there'd be a Kajagoogoo supplement. Ha, ha, ha. I kind of asked for that one, though...
Ah, but part of the tribals...the Men Without Hats! Damn hat tech is ruining the world!!!!
Remember the idea of powers or abilities in this setting idea?
I like the idea that are there and are going to happen - but EVERYONE has a shot at them, not a special few.
Also these abilities DO NOT work if a person is angry, angst-ridden, moody or loner-ish in any way.
The characters get bonus points for being positive in other words.
Okay the last sentence or two may seem petty or reactive , but it really isn't.
- Ed C.
Touched by an Angel?
With all the recent talk about WW and the World of Darkness - I remembered I had this idea.....
Anyone else had ideas?
I still think its possible to down a game about something Positive! potentially happening - as long as the players have obstacles along the way and know the stakes are really high.
- Ed C.
I think a complete opposite of the World of Darkness would be like New Age beliefs: there's a magical conspiracy afoot, but it's got good intentions. The players are guardian angels instead of vampires.
You could probably do that with a whimsical TV show kind of vibe instead: in each adventure someone has a problem which you have to solve. The players have magical powers which would make it easy, but there are various strict rules about how they can interact with humans.
Instead of the hierarchy of the Camarilla, there's a celestial bureaucracy. An NPC is the player's boss, who gives them their assignments each adventure.
Instead of dwelling on nastiness, the problems are along the lines of: you have to make this woman realise that her ex-husband is actually right for her.
I think someone posted a similar idea here recently, except the players were gifted humans instead of angels?
...again I wasn't thinking "Magic".
More like something that scientificly here all along -on Earth. It just now got dectectable. Instead of "paranormal" - the NEW Normal. It can be detected, quantified, used by all humans - if they are trained.
However people got to grow up and get along a little.
Heck, make it wonderfully ironic if a tad bit of Global Warming was actually needed for the big event to happen. (Thej they discover the 'cure' is easier than they thought - or that its a natural cycle that got nudged a little by accident)
Again - SCIENCE! is a good thing and what seperates the good guys (player characters) from the Bad Guys( Nasty NPcs with bad teeth).
- Ed C.
Quote from: Age of Fable;284799I think a complete opposite of the World of Darkness would be like New Age beliefs: there's a magical conspiracy afoot, but it's got good intentions. The players are guardian angels instead of vampires.
When you scratch the surface, many new-age beliefs are pretty cynical (they have to be to explain how "Love and Light" haven't gotten their adherents eternal happiness yet). Lots of talk about secret evil conspiracies and Lizard-men Royal Families and stuff like that, keeping all the fat 40something women from finding true love or losing weight or getting a job. Its not the poor dears' fault you see, its not that they're incompetent stupid lazy cows, oh dear no...
its the lizard-folk.
Mage is the most New-Age game I've ever seen in my life: valiant hippies with the power of love riding around america in a van trying to escape "The Man" who wants to oppress their imaginary fantasy land with his evil LOGIC.
QuoteYou could probably do that with a whimsical TV show kind of vibe instead: in each adventure someone has a problem which you have to solve. The players have magical powers which would make it easy, but there are various strict rules about how they can interact with humans.
Instead of the hierarchy of the Camarilla, there's a celestial bureaucracy. An NPC is the player's boss, who gives them their assignments each adventure.
What you're talking about sounds closer to Highway To Heaven (or Touched By An Angel).
The problem with that is, first: it would suck. Because the source material sucks.
And second, because you have fallen into one of the common fallacies of people who don't really get this sort of thing: the idea that anything "positive" MUST be both shallow, tacky and wimpy.
You know who had a positive world view? The U.S. founding fathers, when they kicked ass all over the eastern seaboard and created a new country. It doesn't have to be fat black women singing gospel and Irish mental defectives with stupid smiles and hugs and puppies in order to be "positive". It just requires having a basis in believing that humanity is fundamentally worthwhile, you don't need "special snowflakes" just people willing to be heroic, progress is possible, EVERYONE has the same potential to be important or heroic, human freedom and inalienable rights are critical, and Civilization is a good thing.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;284836....................
You know who had a positive world view? The U.S. founding fathers, when they kicked ass all over the eastern seaboard and created a new country. It doesn't have to be fat black women singing gospel and Irish mental defectives with stupid smiles and hugs and puppies in order to be "positive". It just requires having a basis in believing that humanity is fundamentally worthwhile, you don't need "special snowflakes" just people willing to be heroic, progress is possible, EVERYONE has the same potential to be important or heroic, human freedom and inalienable rights are critical, and Civilization is a good thing.
RPGPundit
Oh Hell Yes I want to agree with that batch of words.
Sounds Great - now how do we work that into an RPG setting?
- Ed C.
Quote from: Koltar;284842Oh Hell Yes I want to agree with that batch of words.
Sounds Great - now how do we work that into an RPG setting?
- Ed C.
I seem to remember that I had done that already, earlier in this very thread?
RPGPundit