I know all the things I don't want but don't know what to actually put in the damn thing. I have a few ideas but don't know how to pull them all together.
First: Do I draw a map? Build the nations/societies?
I'd like multiple pantheons (I think). How do you make something like the god(ess) of the harvest different from one pantheon to the next? Can you? Should you?
Maybe I'm just realizing this is going to take more effort than I thought, becoming more work and less fun.
Looks like there is going to have to be some research. I don't know. Just thinking out loud.
I think archetypes might be your best friend here.
Most cultures have stories to cover the basic needs of society. In close geographical regions they are going to be very similar with some twists in the details.
I would recommend limiting the number of societies in your world and starting with an origin story for each. Then change a single detail that gives the societies an opposing view.
This one detail can give your entire world story all of the conflict it needs.
Start small and build from there rather than trying to do everything at once. Also check out Ray Winninger's Dungeoncraft articles (http://www.darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/dnd/dungeoncraft/).
You don't need to go overboard. To prevent being overwhelmed keep things small and vague at first. If your PCs are starting off in Italy you don't need to detail what is going on in India and China or Scandinavia. And frankly, everything beyond Italy is "Barbarians" anyway. So vaguely sketch in the rest of the Mediterranean and maybe a few key cities that are trading centers. Note who competitors are so people know who to grumble about: "Man, those Scythians are bastards..."
I often do start with a map, but then I've always liked maps. Again, it doesn't have to be detailed. I played in a campaign where the GM's map was centered on one major city and maybe 400 miles in any direction, we never knew what was beyond that accept in vague, general terms (my character knew a bit more than the others because he was a trader sea captain, but even that knowledge was mostly waved aside.) And even most of that map was "wild" lands with a few named towns scattered about.
Don't get too fancy with pantheons. Most players won't care (maybe the priest PC will, a little.) Stick with one main pantheon and only vaguely lay out a second or third. And what people think they know doesn't have to be true. "We have 8 major gods while those barbarians over there have 3." "Uhhh, they have 4." "Shut up, apostate!"
You can flesh things out later when needed. If the PCs head north into Gaul, fine, detail Gaul and their pantheon then. You don't need to worry about what is South until/if they head in that direction.
Define the core: time, place, scope. Time and place comes with its own tropes, such as tech, culture, environment, etc. and scope deals with how far PCs will generally travel, and what scale you need to focus on.
Examples would be: Bronze Age Horn of Africa, in an area located, and in size of, what is now Djibouti.
Then we can work on what's next. So what do you have in mind?
Starting small and expanding outward is a tried and true approach, and it may tend to get you something like a Greyhawk or possibly a Forgotten Realms type setting. Nothing wrong with these.
That's the bottom up approach. There's also the top-down approach.
I tend to prefer a high concept; stuff like Ravenloft, Dark Sun, and Spelljammer. I start with a science fiction styled premise-a "What if" question.
"What if it was like typical D&D, except there was no divine magic (ever)?" Then I work on a cosmology and backstory to justify my premise, then think about what major aspects of the world would be changed, and come up with cultures that might highlight different aspects of the premise- a culture of necromancers overrun with undead with a powerful church-like organization, A culture of Evokers in a blasted elementally-controlled land, etc.
There's no divine healing, so if I want adventurers to run around doing adverturer stuff, I'd better come up with a solution; maybe certain plants or minerals can offer the effects of specific divine spells. This might involve a powerful form of alchemy, or it might not. I probably decided to hinder divine magic to see what a world without divine casters was like, so I'd probably avoid introducing the classes through the back door of using alchemy; instead, I might make certain positively charged springs offer free healing potions. The springs are guarded by countries and powerful individuals, and the water is sold as potions.
That kind of thing. From the premise, I get an idea for resources, interests, and themes, and I can build the broad strokes of the world from there. It really wouldn't take more than an afternoon to outline a world this way.
Once you have your broad strokes in, you can zoom in (to the country level, say), and add more detail, then zoom in on that (province level), then again (city and town), etc. you don't have to zoom in on everything- just the areas you're going to start in. But you'll have your whole world outlined and ready for more detail when you need it.
As others said, you can start small if you want, you don't have to build a world - you can start with a small village (or island) and build out as play progresses if you want. If you're feeling sneaky you can have PCs be newcomers to the area to cut down on stupid questions, though the drawback is this limits your ability to apply stuff from character's backgrounds during the game.
If you're definitely going to build your own campaign, I'd suggest work with one continent or kingdom to start with, with just a few ideas or rumours for other continents. A map is a good idea, and also try to think about the history of the place at least a bit- in more detail for recent periods. Consider if it was colonized recently and from where, how natural barriers like mountains or rivers will affect boundaries of countries, noteworthy magical events or disasters (particularly if ruins, etc. are going to be important in play). Oh and if there's anything you want from any other setting/book you've read/movie, just steal it (and adapt it if necessary to work with your other ideas).
When you get to the map making stage, this tutorial may prove invaluable if you have Photoshop. It has for me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRaxI7EnX-k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRaxI7EnX-k)
IME the best worlds grow organically in play, you only create stuff when inspired to do so or to fit the current needs of the game-at-table. So any initial continental map should be kept very vague and sketchy. Thematics are a lot more important than details.
A 100 miles/cm continental map created ca 1986 was the nucleus for one of my most successful game worlds. That worked well, as it sketched out the major nations but didn't restrict what I could create at a smaller scale to fit the needs of particular campaigns & adventures.
Here's a MSPaint version of (most of) that map, from ca 1996:
(http://www.geocities.ws/s.t.newman/Ea_map.gif)
Quote from: Thanos;752433I know all the things I don't want but don't know what to actually put in the damn thing. I have a few ideas but don't know how to pull them all together.
First: Do I draw a map? Build the nations/societies?
I'd like multiple pantheons (I think). How do you make something like the god(ess) of the harvest different from one pantheon to the next? Can you? Should you?
Maybe I'm just realizing this is going to take more effort than I thought, becoming more work and less fun.
Looks like there is going to have to be some research. I don't know. Just thinking out loud.
Just pick a theme and start creating, then see where it takes you. Edit as needed.
Here is an example of what can be created with that, Eire Subsector from The Zhodani Base (http://zho.berka.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/eire_subsector.pdf) which was created to honor Saint Patrick's Day.
Quote from: Thanos;752433I know all the things I don't want but don't know what to actually put in the damn thing. I have a few ideas but don't know how to pull them all together.
Having some ideas is a good start.
Quote from: Thanos;752433First: Do I draw a map? Build the nations/societies?
Drawing a map is a very good idea, as you can hang things off the map.
I would sketch out any surrounding areas in a paragraph or two, just to give them some flavour. Detail the current area slightly more, but don't go overboard. Give each major town a sentence or two, so that when the players ask you about a town, you don't go "Er, um, er, don't know, it has pigs".
Quote from: Thanos;752433I'd like multiple pantheons (I think). How do you make something like the god(ess) of the harvest different from one pantheon to the next? Can you? Should you?
Look at RuneQuest for some very good ideas about how to handle pantheons. Most of the ideas can be ported to other systems.
- Each deity has its own powers, derived from its realm of influence and its actions
- Worshippers of a deity get access to spells particular to that deity
- Worshippers of a deity have restrictions and benefits particular to that deity
- Worshippers of a deity should behave in a certain way
- Certain professions/classes tend to migrate to worshipping certain deities, so Fighters worship gods of war
I wouldn't go into much more detail than that. Sketch out the pantheons, write a sentence for each deity and perhaps detail the spells they get access to. Maybe highlight why the pantheons are different and maybe say which pantheons are worshipped in each country.
Quote from: Thanos;752433Maybe I'm just realizing this is going to take more effort than I thought, becoming more work and less fun.
Looks like there is going to have to be some research. I don't know. Just thinking out loud.
How much is work and how much is fun depends on how much detail you have. Writing everything in depth up front is very hard work and can drain the fun. Writing it as you go along and when you need it is much easier and actually adds to the fun, as you and your players explore the world together.
Consider first the scope of the planned campaign.
Is it small or localized to a single area? Or is it going to sprawl all over the continent or planet?
Look at your start area. How long are the PCs going to be there? The more based they are to one place the more you can flesh it out.
Then consider who the neighbors are. What the neighbors are. This may give ideas for the general layout of the lands adjoining.
And from there you can get ideas for pantheons. Whats an elven harvest goddess and an orc harvest god got in common? And what is different? Are they even seperate beings? Will it be important or is it just background info?
If the adventure is going to really sprawl and there is lots of travel then you may not need to flesh much out aside from points of interest as the PCs may breeze through and never pick up a tenth of the info.
Funny thing, that ... I wrote a series of articles giving a low-key overview as to what to do:
Opening Gambit: Your town and its NPCs (http://ravenswing59.blogspot.com/2013/10/starting-from-scratch-pt-i.html)
Faith Manages: Designing religions (http://ravenswing59.blogspot.com/2013/10/starting-from-scratch-pt-ii-wednesdays.html)
Setting The Table: Party composition and equipment (http://ravenswing59.blogspot.com/2013/10/starting-from-scratch-pt-iii-wednesdays.html)
The Appetizer Round: Tips on portraying your world's NPCs (http://ravenswing59.blogspot.com/2013/12/starting-from-scratch-pt-iv.html)
The Main Course: Your First Adventure (http://ravenswing59.blogspot.com/2014/02/starting-from-scratch-pt-v.html)
The Dessert Round: Random tips and suggestions (http://ravenswing59.blogspot.com/2014/03/starting-from-scratch-pt-vi.html)
Spicier Cities (http://ravenswing59.blogspot.com/2014/02/spicier-cities-stuff-you-can-use.html)
Medieval Demographics Done RIGHT (pt I) (http://ravenswing59.blogspot.com/2013/10/medieval-demographics-done-right.html)
Medieval Demographics Done RIGHT (pt II) (http://ravenswing59.blogspot.com/2013/10/medieval-demographics-done-right-pt-ii.html)
Quote from: Thanos;752433I know all the things I don't want but don't know what to actually put in the damn thing. I have a few ideas but don't know how to pull them all together.
First: Do I draw a map? Build the nations/societies?
I'd like multiple pantheons (I think). How do you make something like the god(ess) of the harvest different from one pantheon to the next? Can you? Should you?
Maybe I'm just realizing this is going to take more effort than I thought, becoming more work and less fun.
Looks like there is going to have to be some research. I don't know. Just thinking out loud.
I'm looking for a post I made a few years ago about this, and of course, I cannot find it.
I always recommend going large, then small. In other words, build the big picture ideas, plots, and themes. Then make a basic map with that, and always make the cosmology fit in. What powers spells, is there divine magic, is it a good-vs evil thing, or are there divine factions? Do you want belief to matter, or are the gods very clearly affecting the world? What is the population density and what % of the population can touch/cast magic...in a class based game, what % is level capable? Do you have races, sub-races, crossbreeding? What types of political systems, what sort of relationships, what sort of economies? And make sure the classes or game archetypes have a background for existing...for example, who teaches magic? is it an organization, many organizations, or individuals?
After all the Macro, go micro...create a village or something small that expresses all of the big stuff on the molecular level. Represent the racial stuff, the economic stuff, the church and faith stuff, the guilds, etc, on a small scale.
Start by drawing a map, then let your imagination flow. Ruthlessly mine Wikipedia for info, reality is wonderfully bizarre and bears no onus of "believability" the way fiction does. Don't worry about gaps, often your players will like to fill those in, here is a world written by one of my players:
Tetlae/Vilian (Astron 1038) E360502-6 De Ni 524 Na F2V
Starport E Frontier Fuel none Facilities none
Planetary Size 3 4,800 km Mercury, Ganymede Surface gravity 0.6
Atmosphere 6 Standard Earth Pressure 0.71–1.49
Hydrosphere 0 0%–5% Desert world No free standing water
Population 5 Hundreds of thousands Average city
Government 0 None No government structure. In many cases, family bonds predominate. Clan.
Law level 2 Portable energy weapons (except ship-mounted weapons); Highly addictive narcotics; Agent programs; Alien technology
Visitors must report passenger manifest, landing is permitted anywhere; All psionic powers must be registered; use of dangerous powers.
Tech level 6 Industrial Atomic age. TL 6 brings the development of fission power and more advanced computing. Advances in materials technology and rocketry bring about the dawn of the space age.
Tetlae is a cold, small desert far satellite, one orbit outward from the habitable zone, with a diameter of 4,820 km and a circumference of 15,140 km. It has no surface water, and its surface gravity is 0.6 G. It has a year of 526 24-hour days; its actual day length is 21 hours. There are no moons. Average temperature is -11 C, with a temperature change of -12 C per kilometre of altitude.
Tetlae is a non-aligned world with a transient population of +/- 500,000. It has no central government, and is governed by clan structure; clan custom forbids portable energy weapons. Its tech is equivalent to the atomic age. This world is poor and non-industrial. It relies on industrial imports.
The clans are traditionally nomadic, in order to not over-exploit the few natural resources of their world. They travel from sietch to sietch in tribal convoys of large, bio-ethanol powered vehicles – home cars – accommodating extended family units. Mobile workshops provide for many of the necessities of life, and comprise the local light industrial base, which functions as much as a craft as it does an industry. There is a dependence on imported components and raw materials for fabricating major installations, or even for maintaining anything above medium tech.
Image
Typical Tetlaean home car
The native Jonkeereen stock was originally seeded here in a joint SuSAG/MinCol program to test their adaptability and suitability to dry/cold conditions. The program faltered with the Collapse, but the hardy Jonkeereen prospered despite abandonment amidst adverse conditions; this was despite the inevitable differences which arise between competing groups in a scarcity environment. The last few generations of clan elders have been forming plans to terraform this world; this has meant a move towards burying inter-clan rivalry, and towards cooperation on large-scale projects. Many Tetlaean youth have been sent offworld on clan bursaries to study methods to achieve this end.
Unfortunately, this has meant conflict has been generated in new areas – within the tribes, between those forward-thinking members following this tendency towards mutual aid, and the 'primitivists', who are often organised into quasi-religious sects. These luddite groups desperately wish to reinvent and defend a semi-mythical, less-complicated vision of the Jonkeereen past – and one which is more conservative, patriarchal and ruthless. Their tactics include intimidation, sabotage and terror.
http://dragonersdomain.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=131
See, you would be surprised at how much creativity can slip through the gaps. It is nice to have a whole theme across what you are doing, but it isn't necessary.
I'm a proponent of starting with a map. First off, I like maps, and secondly, if you're using anything like real-world physics, you're going to want your game world seasons and weather to align with what we would expect (ie, very high latitudes are cold while very low latitudes [equatorial] are hot. If you don't have deserts where they would be expected (ie, rain shadows from mountains, horse latitudes), you should have an explanation. Basically, I assume everything is 'real world sensible' unless it has a reason for not being that way. A map is really helpful for that purpose.
It'll also help direct 'building out'. If you are looking for a place that's somewhat like England in weather and temperament, the map will help guide you to that. Then looking around, you'll see what's nearby and that will give some ideas of what could reasonably make sense to exist.
It's absolutely fine to take an Earth-like culture and imagine how they'd be different if they lived somewhere else. This is also helpful for non-human cultures (ie, if resources are similar to what we'd find in our world, we'd expect some of the same types of crafts - if there are no sheep, there won't be any wool).
With a general map, keep things vague. If you know you have some cultures inspired by the real world, you'll want to indicate generally where they are, but the biggest mistake people make at this point is filling in too much detail. For most game worlds to make sense, while the Kingdom of Kinglandia may claim a huge amount of territory, a fair amount of it will be wilderness. The frontiers are not going to be well defined, nor will there be clear borders. Instead of drawing a modern political map, you might want to think of it like a map of barbarian tribes - generally indicate the center of their population, but don't draw in borders - they're unlikely to be entirely fixed.
Once you have the general map and the broad strokes, focus in on a small area to really get going. Where the PCs play is going to need a lot more detail than the parts of the world that they won't see (at least for a while). Think of what you know (or don't know) about China. You may need to answer some pretty vague questions, but you're not going to have to go into a lot of specifics - especially if your world is not as well-connected as ours.
Regarding pantheons, I personally recommend 'distant gods'. Your deities should never jump in and start smiting people with their avatars. Firstly, it's not really necessary, and secondly, it can really detract from the fun of your setting. If the sun-god is mad at the PCs, he tells his worshipers in a dream to go kill the PCs. Can anyone prove that he really said to do it? Maybe the sun-god worshiper just really doesn't approve of what the PCs are doing. This is going to also help your PCs feel like they matter. You never need to justify why your God of Just Retribution isn't getting involved - you've basically made it from the outset that Gods need mortal beings to work their will in the world. There's going to be someone that says 'well, the deities don't get involved because than the other deities will get involved'. That usually doesn't work out well unless you have absolutely balanced pantheons between good and evil and it tends to make it much harder to justify multiple pantheons. With distant gods, you can have the Greek Pantheon and the Norse pantheon and some people think those are the same gods under different names, others think that there are 'true gods' and 'false gods', etc, etc. Basically, religion becomes a lot more like 'the real world' - with all the conflict that naturally arises.
At this point, you have a map with some generally defined geography, some rough ideas of cultural groups and their locations, and a zoomed in area of a few hundred square miles (maybe larger) for a campaign. As you have time and inspiration, you can expand the area. If this campaign ends, you can set the next one in a different area of the same world and that will help expand the world with a lot of depth. As you come across something that you think is interesting, decide if that can fit into a part of your world that hasn't been rigidly defined yet.
I want to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread.
I've always used manufactured settings (because it's easy) but now my imagination is sparking and I want to run with it before it's gone.
It was, in my mind, shaping up to be a daunting task but I feel I've enough ideas now that I can carry on.
Special thanks to Ravenswing for his blog posts addressing this issue.
Any time.
Quote from: S'mon;752488IME the best worlds grow organically in play...
Here's a MSPaint version of (most of) that map, from ca 1996:
(http://www.geocities.ws/s.t.newman/Ea_map.gif)
Win!
Quote from: Thanos;752433I know all the things I don't want but don't know what to actually put in the damn thing. I have a few ideas but don't know how to pull them all together.
First: Do I draw a map? Build the nations/societies?
I'd like multiple pantheons (I think). How do you make something like the god(ess) of the harvest different from one pantheon to the next? Can you? Should you?
Maybe I'm just realizing this is going to take more effort than I thought, becoming more work and less fun.
Looks like there is going to have to be some research. I don't know. Just thinking out loud.
People found my "How to make a Fantasy Sandbox (http://batintheattic.blogspot.com/2009/08/how-to-make-fantasy-sandbox.html)" helpful.
As for religions and societies, culture is a set of common behaviors that a group of individual centers around. For gaming purposes this means defining how a group commonly acts means you also defined their cultures.
The same for religions which can be looked at as the culture surrounding the worship of a deity or dieties. Have two gods of harvest, want to figure out how they are different. Figure out how their adherents behave. After then figure why they behave that way which will give you their history.
My biggest tip is 'make up some shit you think will be fun'. My current world that I'm starting to build will include everything from Prester John's Kingdom from The Travels of Sir John Mandeville to Captain Shakespeare and his Lightning Pirates from the movie "Stardust."
Second tip... you don't have to outrun the Balrog, you just have to outrun Gandalf. In other words, don't worry about drawing a 10,000 level dungeon... for now, just draw one level, the "town", and the "castle."
It was a year of playing in Gary Gygax's "Greyhawk" before the temples were called anything other than "The Lawful Temple," "The Neutral Temple," and "The Chaotic Temple."
I agree. I've always started with one hex and two dots: the town dot and the dungeon dot.
Just yesterday I found a nice tutorial for the opposite method: top-down building based on geology and meteorology.
http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=29425
This is a damn cool thread actually. My two cents:
When I was teenager, I used to start it all "top down", maps of continents, several pantheons of gods and their spheres of influence, a detailed five-age history of the entire world, with elder races ... blah blah blah ...
Now I feel it's much more fun, and more mysterious, to only detail a corner of the world and have the rest in broad strokes. For this, a continent map for the GM only is a good idea, and some names of exotic places to throw around from time to time, but I've only detailed two religions (that of the native race to the corner of the world I've worked up, and that of the invading colonists ... Already the two religions, and the fact that the "Old Religion" is now outlawed, for the most part, have given rise to loads of plot hooks and scenario ideas), and two cultures. The characters can choose to be either from the colonist or the native culture, and interaction between the two, and a brewing insurrection, are already proving to be the hook to hang the campaign on. For another series of games, my "Swords & Sorcery Anthology", I've set it in a Carribean with plantations type region of the same world, with a mix of cultures and religions, but only detailing the ones that the characters come into contact immediately with, and basically taking my cue from what the players want to play. They had the brief to come up with pirates from any Earth analogue culture they wanted, and we ended up with a "local" from the Siyana Archipelago (Malaysian in feel) and member of a grim and outlawed Shark Cult of Ravenashoor, a "European" pirate, from the slightly Renaissance Italy inflected Elerinn in Harronia (the world's White "Western European" region) who's gone in for a syncretic animism featuring local and imported spirits and demons, and a "Mongol", a nomad tactical thinker, exiled from his people, of the Varanghar tribe of the Jedekhan peoples of the Grey Plains, in the northern continent. Throw in some native animal totem animism, and hints of dark and strange gods all thrown together in the island melting pot pirate port they find themselves in, and we're good to go!
My own methodology runs a little contrary to what several here have suggested: people seem to think the best way is to start with a very small area, and then build the world up around that.
But for me, what has been by far more successful is to FIRST think of the big overall world or region in very general terms, and only AFTER that, focus on a more specific area and develop that area in depth as your campaign starting-point.
Yeah. You have to have some concept of the world before you start even if there's no map per se.
Quote from: RPGPundit;753669My own methodology runs a little contrary to what several here have suggested: people seem to think the best way is to start with a very small area, and then build the world up around that.
But for me, what has been by far more successful is to FIRST think of the big overall world or region in very general terms, and only AFTER that, focus on a more specific area and develop that area in depth as your campaign starting-point.
Mm, well, to a degree, I'm talking out of my ass: I started developing my setting decades ago, and I've layered a staggering amount of detail into it. It's not merely that the giant seaport I've used for most of the last decade as a home base for the main party has eleven hundred businesses described with at
least a large paragraph each, it's that I've done the kingdom's ten largest cities as well, and have similar treatments for every village within two days' ride of the capital. I know where every temple of every faith in the
world is, as well as the locations, numbers and Orders of every wizard of Master-class on up.
But I've been building this setting for approaching forty years now. I've had the time not only to look at the big questions, but all the teensy ones as well. I haven't had to create a completely new setting for a loooong time.
But if I was going to do it all over again from scratch? No way. No freaking way. I'm not going to do months of work as a prerequisite to getting a game off the ground. I'm going to want to tell people, "Hey, I'm starting up a new game, want to kick off a week from Saturday? Great!"
So with that, I've quite enough work ahead of me: putting together a dozen key businesses for the small town they're starting in, putting together the first adventure, doing up some regional customs and practices, deciding the details of three or so key religions. I'm not going to say I couldn't do that in a week and a half (along with scheduling character creation and, well, working and making sure my wife doesn't feel neglected), but I won't have broad-picture creation time to spare.
If I had 40 years to build a setting, I would do a good, solid six months of work on it. Swearsies.
Have we mentioned this yet?
http://www.welshpiper.com/hex-based-campaign-design-part-1/
Aside from the odd choice of five-mile hexes, it's an excellent way to get started on the big picture stuff.
Quote from: Thanos;752433I know all the things I don't want but don't know what to actually put in the damn thing. I have a few ideas but don't know how to pull them all together.
First: Do I draw a map? Build the nations/societies?
I'd like multiple pantheons (I think). How do you make something like the god(ess) of the harvest different from one pantheon to the next? Can you? Should you?
Maybe I'm just realizing this is going to take more effort than I thought, becoming more work and less fun.
Looks like there is going to have to be some research. I don't know. Just thinking out loud.
just imagine it in your head. Steal profusely and adapt.
Once it becomes a lot of work meh ...
The gods thing is more tricky you need to decide do you have a group of gods worshipped by different groups with different names or are the gods in competition or are some of the gods false etc .... You can do loads of work on theology but your players will probably not care and because they aren't familiar the gods won't mean shit to them. Its why I tend to steal gods from books and stuff so to be popular lift the gods from Game of thrones. There are the old gods , vague and hard to fathom, the Seven the state religion for most of the game world (using a well known pantheon means that PCs can start to use in game idioms like "by the Smith's Hammer that is a fine suit of mail" ) and the new fire god fromt eh east.
So this means the PCs sit down and immediately understand your religion from a paragraph not 30 pages of detailed notes. And if they aren't familiar then that PC isn't very religious.
Quote from: RPGPundit;753669My own methodology runs a little contrary to what several here have suggested: people seem to think the best way is to start with a very small area, and then build the world up around that.
But for me, what has been by far more successful is to FIRST think of the big overall world or region in very general terms, and only AFTER that, focus on a more specific area and develop that area in depth as your campaign starting-point.
yes. exactly what I said. Sometimes, I do work like Pundit.
Well, better to do things right sometimes than not at all, I guess.
Quote from: Ravenswing;752564Funny thing, that ... I wrote a series of articles giving a low-key overview as to what to do:
...
Awesome sauce.
Also, I suggest picking up the Kobold Guide to Worldbuilding (http://www.rpgnow.com/product/109707/KOBOLD-Guide-to-Worldbuilding?term=kobold+guide+to+worl). It's a fantastic resource with essay's from a bunch of talented game designers. There's a whole series now (game prep, campaign prep, magic...). Worth checking out.
Quote from: Thanos;752433Maybe I'm just realizing this is going to take more effort than I thought, becoming more work and less fun.
Let me share something that I learned is true for me. Maybe it's true for you, maybe not.
Don't worry about building a world. I used to obsess over it. I used to worry about getting every mountain in the right place, every bit of history just right. I used to create pantheons, cities, calendars, and all sorts of things up front.
What I learned is that I didn't need to. It was extra effort which didn't result in much. I don't have to build a complete world to have a fun game session. If I just prepare what I need and trust my improvisational ability, I can create something on the fly. And since it will have player input, it will be much more fun.
I'm not going to write Lord of the Rings. I've discarded the idea of writing some kind of RPG book based on my creation. Ultimately, the only people my worlds have to satisfy are me and the people I play with, and that's enough.
My current campaign is a world that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. There is no grand design to it. I just drop in what I think will be fun. Trying to make sense of it after the fact is often more fun than trying to figure everything out in advance.
Because here is the secret that works for me. If the action is fun. If the NPCs are likable. If the subplots are interesting. No one really cares about the world, so don't stress over it too much.
Quote from: RPGPundit;753669My own methodology runs a little contrary to what several here have suggested: people seem to think the best way is to start with a very small area, and then build the world up around that.
But for me, what has been by far more successful is to FIRST think of the big overall world or region in very general terms, and only AFTER that, focus on a more specific area and develop that area in depth as your campaign starting-point.
I find the best approach is to start with a very general theme, eg "Game of Thrones" "Song of Roland" "Thongor sci-fantasy" which sets the mood and tone for future development; but avoid doing anything early on that will constrain me. For instance a typical problem with big top-down worlds like Greyhawk is that everything is carved out into big states that are visible on the world map, leaving no space for micro-kingdoms. But micro-kingdoms let me run the kind of low level 'save the princess from the dragon' or 'overthrow the wizard usurper' type adventures that are ubiquitous in fantasy. And I shouldn't have to detail every such micro-kingdom on the map before I start the campaign.
Quote from: Thanos;752433I have a few ideas but don't know how to pull them all together.
I keep throwing ideas out there and fitting them together and taking them apart and changing them about until I hit upon something that is solid, that is good, that is
right.
Then I use that as the nucleus of a setting or world or whatever.
I call it my One Perfect Thing (http://daddywarpig.wordpress.com/2012/09/21/one-perfect-thing/). (Link to my blog.)
Since I like making maps, I started there. Then added some cities and cultural regions and added a few sentences of descriptions for each place. Then I asked my players what place sounded the coolest and they started their adventuring there. So far most everything else is literally just a name on a map but they've gotten excited about checking out different places based on whether they have cool names or not. So starting light and building out has worked really well.
A good map can be an excellent place to start, and often can act as a visual substitute for all kinds of setting-detail.
Quote from: RPGPundit;753669My own methodology runs a little contrary to what several here have suggested: people seem to think the best way is to start with a very small area, and then build the world up around that.
But for me, what has been by far more successful is to FIRST think of the big overall world or region in very general terms, and only AFTER that, focus on a more specific area and develop that area in depth as your campaign starting-point.
I think the key here is "in very general terms". The overall region/world will certainly shape what's going on, and that should inform your town, who's in it, what's going on, etc. The key (to me) is not overdoing the detail at the large scale.
A war between Farawayland and Notclosania can certainly impact local politics and is a good thing to figure out. It's not necessarily important to drill down into specific people in those lands if it's not likely to impact the players (directly or indirectly).
My general rule is that the closer you are to the players, the more detail there should be. "Close" doesn't necessarily mean in terms of just geographical distance, it also means in terms of influence/what the players are likely to deal with. If the game is going to feature Kingdom Overtheria trying to overthrow the rightful rulers of Righthererightnow, then you'd better damn well know who the major players in Overtheria are, regardless of where it's actually located.
I am going to be very specific about what to do.
Buy or otherwise acquire a hard cover sketch book. Set it aside.
Outside of the sketch book make four maps, each nested within the other like Russian dolls.
1. World map
2. Region map
3. Sub region
4. Adventure site
5. Optional: settlement.
While making these maps, write everything that goes through you head down in the sketchbook. Don't worry about organization, just get it out. If you put a city on the map or a mountain range, or whatever, write a sentence or two in the book. Write sloppy, half assed sentences if you want. You are not married to these ideas.
Here is an example of such a progression. I've posted these up before, but I am going to do it again for the sake of the topic at hand.
1. World
(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n552/Junkyinthethrunky/image_zps92bdf9be.jpg)
2. Region
(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n552/Junkyinthethrunky/image_zps6ca8898f.jpg)
3. Subregion
(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n552/Junkyinthethrunky/6cd92501e6669d4736c345cf42c203d4_zps636e3302.jpg)
4. Adventure site
(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n552/Junkyinthethrunky/1c61ca087d12f9a0de0ef050e8a8f238_zpsc3413f5a.jpg)
5. Settlement:
(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n552/Junkyinthethrunky/352b8de6f8b4f106864ba8532bd36331_zps19ca3891.jpg)
Now you have a framework to build on. However, I suggest you begin the first session at the entrance to the adventure site and let your ideas as to the rest of the area cook in your subconscious for a bit.
One thing further, at this point, you need to think about how to disseminate setting information to the players. "In a huge, densely written document," is exactly the wrong answer, by the way.
I will go into more detail later, if there is interest.
Of course, in a lot of my campaigns I start off by ripping off of history.
I've been tasked with "doing" a city for a campaign. I started with where the city is located. I then mapped the city making sure I had walls, roads, buildings (I did this with online tools).
The maps sat there for a long time... I have now split the map into sections for easier handling. I go through each section and name the roads. I then place the inns, and some temples.
The road names give me themes for areas, and sometimes names of historically important figures. I then place and name the inns which allows me to further build on the naming conventions and expand on the local history of the place. With those done I am currently Doing a quick two or three sentence write up for each inn. It might be used by locals, haunted, an old building, or have something of interest (a bit like a guide book for tourists).
Next I am splitting up the sections I have by theme: There might be a legal district, or a market/traders area. All these are related to the names I came up with and it is happening quite organically.
It helps that I spent a long time looking at places I have lived and how names and places develop and grow over time. That is something quite fascinating in its own right.
I am not putting NPCs in. Just names and place data. Things you might see or hear about if you went there. This provides seeds for later use.
I'm not a big fan of campaign maps as they seem to ground my imagination of the campaign to real world demographics. I like to think of interesting things without having to worry about placing them within constraints. I like a broad beginning skeleton that I can be fleshed out by will by myself and the players interests. I've read many setting books were that type of demographic information doesn't really come up during play or at most merely as flavor.
Truth be told, I've started to fall off map creation -- and I love making maps -- because I don't think the players are really interested. National maps, sure; people like to get a notion of comparative relations for long-distance travel. But city maps, for instance? The players want to know what district or neighborhood a particular business is in, and beyond that whether it's around the corner or two streets away from X business rarely comes up.