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Working stats into critical chance.

Started by J Arcane, July 30, 2010, 11:57:05 PM

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J Arcane

So, I've reached a bit of a snag in my brainstorming for the Drums of War game project.

Here's the rub:  I have a basic, d20-ish combat system.  2d10 + Stat vs Armor for melee and ranged attacks, and 2d10 + stat opposed by another 2d10 + stat roll for spell attacks.

We have 5 stats, the same as from WoW, and mostly they govern the same things they do in the game, blurred a little with D&D's rolls.  Strength is for melee, Agility is for ranged and also adds to Armor, Magic attacks are Int vs. Spirit.  

Amount rolled over target number adds to damage, so the better you hit the more damage you do, and that allows Armor to model both avoidance and damage reduction.

However, there's a hitch here.  I want to work in a crit mechanic of course, but I want a crit mechanic that's actually affected by stats.  IOW, Agility makes you more likely to crit in Melee (So Rogues can do their magic without lots of Strength), and Intellect makes you more likely to crit with spells.

But I'm sort of scratching my brain as to a good way to do this.  The only thing that I've managed to come up with, was to resort to a table, converting the stat value into a crit range on the die, so Agility X would result in crits occuring on a roll between Y and 20.

Anyone got any ideas?  I'm still early in design, so I've got some room to work with anything you throw at me.
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ggroy

Quote from: J Arcane;396732But I'm sort of scratching my brain as to a good way to do this.  The only thing that I've managed to come up with, was to resort to a table, converting the stat value into a crit range on the die, so Agility X would result in crits occuring on a roll between Y and 20.

What does Y represent exactly?

J Arcane

Quote from: ggroy;396734What does Y represent exactly?

Well, in that example mechanic, are you familiar with the way critical ranges work in D&D?  IE, if you have a longsword and you roll between, say, 18 and 20, and you get a crit.  

In D&D, That low end number is generally fixed by weapon type, unless you take certain feats or enchantments that improve it.  

What I would be proposing there is making that low end number a variable, Y, that is some how related to and increases on some ratio to X stat.
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ggroy

How are the stats generated?  What would be considered average stats for player characters?

ggroy

Why the choice of 2d10 for the attack rolls?

J Arcane

Quote from: ggroy;396736How are the stats generated?  What would be considered average stats for player characters?

Stats are generated by either dice roll or point-buy, and operate similar to D20 stats in that they provide a modifier, except that the zero point is set at 6-7 instead of 9-10.  So "Average" is technically 6-7/+0, but it depends on class, as both race and class provide a set of stat bonuses.

Quote from: ggroy;396737Why the choice of 2d10 for the attack rolls?

I wanted something with a more predictable average.  It helps to normalize results, and helps reduce the effects of stat bloat, which is especially important as I have no skill system, everything, both non-combat and combat, is based on stat rolls, and stats go up every level.
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ggroy

For a crit on a 20 on 2d10, the probability is 1%.

For a crit on a 19 or 20 on 2d10, the probability is 3%.

For a crit on a 18 -> 20 on 2d10, the probability is 6%.

For a crit on a 17 -> 20 on 2d10, the probability is 10%.

For a crit on a 16 -> 20 on 2d10, the probability is 15%.

For a crit on a 15 -> 20 on 2d10, the probability is 21%.


How wide of a range do you want a crit for?

More generally, what is the maximum probability of a crit are you enforcing?

J Arcane

WoW crit rates can get pretty high, a well geared Rogue can easily get up to 50%, as their damage output relies pretty heavily on frequent criticals.

I don't necessarily want to make it quite so often though, too many crits too often and they start being mundane.  

25% or thereabouts seems like a reasonable cap I suppose.

However, if I'm going to make the event based off a die range, your stats give me something to think about.  Some kind of diminishing returns on the stat -> crit conversion might need to take place, which more or less means a table, if I go with the "roll between Y and 20" method.
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ggroy

Quote from: J Arcane;39674025% or thereabouts seems like a reasonable cap I suppose.

With a 25% probability of a crit, the player will get a crit on average every fourth attack roll.

With a 50% probability of a crit, a thief will get a crit on average every second attack roll.

I don't play WoW at all.  What are the probabilities of a crit for the fighters and mages?

J Arcane

Rogues can pretty easily get up to 50% or more, as their attack power is based on Agility as well as their critical chance, so they tend to load up on it.

Mates and other casters wise, my Warlock generally hovers around 26-28%, but better geared Mages can swing around 33%.

Other melee DPS classes like Death Knights and Fury Warriors are usually around 25-30% as well.
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ggroy

For a 50% crit probability, a crit will happen on average every second attack roll.

For a 33% crit probability, a crit will happen on average every third attack roll.

For a 25% crit probabiliy, a crit will happen on average every fourth attack roll.

For a 20% crit probability, a crit will happen on average every fifth attack roll.

For a 17% crit probability, a crit will happen on average every sixth attack roll.

For a 14% crit probability, a crit will happen on average every seventh attack roll.


In general for an X crit probability, a crit will happen on average every (1/X)-th attack roll.

ggroy

Quote from: J Arcane;396742Rogues can pretty easily get up to 50% or more, as their attack power is based on Agility as well as their critical chance, so they tend to load up on it.

In your player stat system, what agility stat would rogues typically have?  (Starting from a 6-7 representing +0).

ggroy

What crit probability would a non-tricked out rogue have in WoW?

ggroy

(I should have asked this earlier).

What is the to-hit probability of various WoW classes?  (ie. Including both non-critical and critical hits).

J Arcane

Quote from: ggroy;396744In your player stat system, what agility stat would rogues typically have?  (Starting from a 6-7 representing +0).

Ignoring rolepaying considerations and thus assuming the player picked the most optimal choice for that class and stat, a Night Elf Rogue, that would start them with a +7 to Agi.  Most other choices will start around +3 to +5.

Stats are rolled on 3d6-L, which is an annoying bugger to figure odds for and I forget how they come out, but IIRC that should generate an average roll of about 9.  Alternately they can point buy and start with 40 points to spend across the 5 abilities, giving them at least 8 if they just average them out.  

Rogues aren't based wholly in Agi in DoW, unlike WoW, so I'd expect a player would probably take around 9 in Agi at least for a Rogue, So that comes out to an expected stat for an "optimal" character of 16, which is a +5 modifier to rolls.  Obviously one might wind up higher or lower.
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