Was skimming through drive-thru today and noticed that Edge studios has recently released a Rokugan supplement for 5e. For those of you that don't know, Rokugan is the setting for the samurai-inspired Legend of Five Rings game. Back in the 3e days, Rokugan also briefly served as the default setting for [trigger warning] "Oriental Adventures" and they published a variety of supplements for both D&D and L5R.
The most recent iteration of L5R, by Fantasy Flight, was ridiculously woke, with hilariously insipid sidebars about cultural sensitivity, trigger warnings about depictions of heterosexuality and the like. But Edge has apparently one-upped them by actually "prohibiting seppuku aka hara-kiri, or ritual suicide, in a game ostensibly grounded in samurai culture! This is like prohibiting church in a setting based on Puritan New England. I didn't buy the product since I have no interest in 5e, but it was amusing to see the debates about this prohibition in the reviews/discussion section.
Ahh, when will the snowflakes stop?
They won't. So long as it remains profitable to cater to them, they won't stop.
Also, why the fuck would anybody play L5R in 5E? That's the epitome of retardation. Form follows function, or I suppose it should be updates that the setting is intrinsically tied to the mechanics and vice versa. It's like using a microscope as a hammer - yeah you could, but why. The real moral of the story is that people should CONSOOM less and make their own shit for their gaming groups. Social media was a mistake.
Well, the woke want games to be accessible to the mentally ill, and a substantial portion of the mentally ill are at high-risk for suicide, so of course they would erase a significant mark of honor-culture to appeal to fragile feefees.
Very well. I suppose I must now kill my dishonored characters through the redeeming act of sudoku.
If anybody is looking for samurai games may I suggest these two.
Sengoku. It's got a lot of it's pages devoted to learning how Japanese culture worked, even going so far as to have a chapter about architecture, like tatami mats and how ceilings are made. I believe the system is the Fuzion system. There are a lot of stats.
Another game is Shinobi and Samurai. This game is much lighter on content. It is also OSR and is a D&D style of rules. It's more conventional to play, but lacks almost any setting info, including Japanese medieval culture and terminology.
Quote from: Hzilong on August 09, 2022, 07:36:43 PM
Very well. I suppose I must now kill my dishonored characters through the redeeming act of sudoku.
Nah, he'll just get banned off of social media and have all his bank accounts frozen.
Quote from: Persimmon on August 09, 2022, 06:19:23 PM
The most recent iteration of L5R, by Fantasy Flight, was ridiculously woke, with hilariously insipid sidebars about cultural sensitivity, trigger warnings about depictions of heterosexuality and the like.
It always struck me as the equivalent of "Yellowface" in an RPG anyway. Blending in Seattle can't make it much worse.
How would they stop you?
A game can recommend players and GMs do this or that with a game, but they can't make or stop you doing anything with it.
;D Lol, OK, whatever "Safety Bumpers Rokugan". ::) L5R 1e is best. Keep remaking that wheel guys, one day you'll remember why its shape is so efficient! 8)
It's stuff like this that reinforces for me that the sjdubs do not know what a role playing game is. They are incapable of being adults.
Like the idiots that decry colonization, they want to completely ignore history and fact. I'm just gobsmacked at the stupidity.
I'm sure the next edition will ban the killing of others.
Greetings!
Samurai customs for Sepuku are a famous trademark. *CUTTING THAT HUGE CULTURAL DYNAMIC* out of the game is, frankly, insulting. Yes, I'm a Great White Shark, too, and I find it deeply offensive. The Code of Bushido should be respected, as it was absolutely central to the Samurai Warrior class. Even embracing such for a fantasy game, geesus. Keep some respect for the source material.
Fuck these feminized Woke fucking game companies.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: SHARK on August 10, 2022, 09:34:45 AM
Greetings!
Samurai customs for Sepuku are a famous trademark. *CUTTING THAT HUGE CULTURAL DYNAMIC* out of the game is, frankly, insulting. Yes, I'm a Great White Shark, too, and I find it deeply offensive. The Code of Bushido should be respected, as it was absolutely central to the Samurai Warrior class. Even embracing such for a fantasy game, geesus. Keep some respect for the source material.
Fuck these feminized Woke fucking game companies.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Greetings Hermano!
Well said. IMHO those wishing to play such a game should stick to L5R 1e or get their hand in the games reccomended upstream by Weirdguy564 Sengoku can be used as a source book and then if you're an OSR guy use Shinobi & Samurai for the system or whatever other game system you like best.
Quote from: Opaopajr on August 10, 2022, 03:26:49 AM
;D Lol, OK, whatever "Safety Bumpers Rokugan". ::) L5R 1e is best. Keep remaking that wheel guys, one day you'll remember why its shape is so efficient! 8)
LOL, imagining samurai warriors covered in bubble wrap to protect them from the harshness of the setting. ;D
5e L5R was never going to be a good adaptation of OG L5R gameplay...
It's designer is a 4e fan.
They scrubbed a lot of the feudal Japan lore to make the 5e version more "generically Asian".
NuRogukan Is a fantasy anime fighting game wearing the L5R IP as a Skinsuit.
And they admit it:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZza80-WYAQSaQb?format=jpg&name=large)
Jesus, Mary, and Joseph... Ritual suicide is PART of their fucking whole culture.
Why not just take the Katanas from them too? And maybe replace them with candy floss sticks. Maybe all the warring feudal kings can now start holding hands and singing 'ring a ring a rosie'.
I'm truly baffled.
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on August 10, 2022, 02:06:11 PM
Jesus, Mary, and Joseph... Ritual suicide is PART of their fucking whole culture.
Why not just take the Katanas from them too? And maybe replace them with candy floss sticks. Maybe all the warring feudal kings can now start holding hands and singing 'ring a ring a rosie'.
I'm truly baffled.
Why are you baffled? This was never intended to be a L5R book. It is a 5e D&D setting with all the gonzo bullshit that entails. Mixing in some names and a paintjob from L5R doesn't change that it's a game for special snowflake adventurers doing whatever they want (except ritual suicide) with no ties to anyone. I mean, if every PC stands as an island of narcissistic individuality and is beyond social expectations as is typical of 5e characters, then why would something like ritual suicide even be considered?
Again, this is a 5e D&D issue, not a problem with the company changing what L5R is about. Play that, even their 5e, and you can have your character commit ritual suicide...with your lord's permission, of course.
This is a bad idea
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 10, 2022, 03:02:08 PM
Why are you baffled? This was never intended to be a L5R book. It is a 5e D&D setting with all the gonzo bullshit that entails.
That's one thing of course...
But the baffling part is who the fuck sanitizes their games like that, and history as well? Who sanctions this stuff and thinks "I'm a good person and I'm saving the world. Tra la la..."
So ironic with all this 'cultural appropriation' crap. So, they can appropriate feudal Japan and then de-appropriate parts they don't like inside that culture. lol
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on August 10, 2022, 06:33:46 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 10, 2022, 03:02:08 PM
Why are you baffled? This was never intended to be a L5R book. It is a 5e D&D setting with all the gonzo bullshit that entails.
That's one thing of course...
But the baffling part is who the fuck sanitizes their games like that, and history as well? Who sanctions this stuff and thinks "I'm a good person and I'm saving the world. Tra la la..."
So ironic with all this 'cultural appropriation' crap. So, they can appropriate feudal Japan and then de-appropriate parts they don't like inside that culture. lol
The simple answer is that they say an opportunity to make some money and to offer a taste test of L5R to D%D players. Perhaps they hope it might also work to lure some players into trying L5R, but that is way below the priority of "make easy money now."
Quote from: zircher on August 10, 2022, 12:08:57 PM
Quote from: Opaopajr on August 10, 2022, 03:26:49 AM
;D Lol, OK, whatever "Safety Bumpers Rokugan". ::) L5R 1e is best. Keep remaking that wheel guys, one day you'll remember why its shape is so efficient! 8)
LOL, imagining samurai warriors covered in bubble wrap to protect them from the harshness of the setting. ;D
They fight with balsa bokken and squeaky hammer tetsubos. ;D Then we gotta NERF courtiers next. Their words are actual violence! ::)
(That was the actual charm of the setting. Honor and face was so important that words and custom actually held overt violence in check by social custom. Remove seppuku and you might as well run the might-makes-right Shadowlands. Oh wait, they included the Spider clan and redeemed Fu Leng already by 3e thru 4e. ::) Yeah... L5R 1e is best. 8) )
Quote from: Opaopajr on August 11, 2022, 05:04:41 AM
Quote from: zircher on August 10, 2022, 12:08:57 PM
Quote from: Opaopajr on August 10, 2022, 03:26:49 AM
;D Lol, OK, whatever "Safety Bumpers Rokugan". ::) L5R 1e is best. Keep remaking that wheel guys, one day you'll remember why its shape is so efficient! 8)
LOL, imagining samurai warriors covered in bubble wrap to protect them from the harshness of the setting. ;D
They fight with balsa bokken and squeaky hammer tetsubos. ;D Then we gotta NERF courtiers next. Their words are actual violence! ::)
(That was the actual charm of the setting. Honor and face was so important that words and custom actually held overt violence in check by social custom. Remove seppuku and you might as well run the might-makes-right Shadowlands. Oh wait, they included the Spider clan and redeemed Fu Leng already by 3e thru 4e. ::) Yeah... L5R 1e is best. 8) )
Much as 5e L5R gets flack for some of its design choices, they did a good thing by removing some of the obnoxious bits of the timeline that were direct results of the card tourney outcomes. AFAIK, there is no Spider Clan in L5R 5e. For that matter, I don't know if it's in the D&D 5e product that started this thread either. If it's not, then that's at least one small plus for it.
So the 5E version isn't actually L5R? Good to know in case this gets run at any gaming club I am at. I can avoid without fuss.
Quote from: Visitor Q on August 11, 2022, 06:04:14 AM
So the 5E version isn't actually L5R? Good to know in case this gets run at any gaming club I am at. I can avoid without fuss.
Adventures in Rokugan is a book by Edge for D&D 5e.
Edge also produces L5R 5e, which is its own game.
The two share some bits of fluff, but they are VERY different.
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 10, 2022, 11:44:50 PM
"make easy money now."
Well, that's one way to do it.
Personally, I'd rather not sanitize my product but that's just me.
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on August 11, 2022, 06:25:51 AM
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 10, 2022, 11:44:50 PM
"make easy money now."
Well, that's one way to do it.
Personally, I'd rather not sanitize my product but that's just me.
You are not a company owned by another company that only cares about the money. Thus goes back to don't hate the player (or manufacturer), hate the game.
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 11, 2022, 06:40:25 AM
You are not a company owned by another company that only cares about the money. Thus goes back to don't hate the player (or manufacturer), hate the game.
[/quote]
Indeed... I don't hate the company per se. I never even played LoTFR. I just find 5e and all its trappings to be pretty toxic for RPing in general. Although, having said that, there does now seem to be a trend of some of 3rd party stuff going 'grim and gritty'. And I really hope that pisses Wotc off even a just wee bit. ;D
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 11, 2022, 06:19:09 AM
Quote from: Visitor Q on August 11, 2022, 06:04:14 AM
So the 5E version isn't actually L5R? Good to know in case this gets run at any gaming club I am at. I can avoid without fuss.
Adventures in Rokugan is a book by Edge for D&D 5e.
Edge also produces L5R 5e, which is its own game.
The two share some bits of fluff, but they are VERY different.
I know.
Quote from: Visitor Q on August 11, 2022, 09:49:23 AM
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 11, 2022, 06:19:09 AM
Quote from: Visitor Q on August 11, 2022, 06:04:14 AM
So the 5E version isn't actually L5R? Good to know in case this gets run at any gaming club I am at. I can avoid without fuss.
Adventures in Rokugan is a book by Edge for D&D 5e.
Edge also produces L5R 5e, which is its own game.
The two share some bits of fluff, but they are VERY different.
I know.
Sorry, I thought there may have been confusion as 5e here can refer to the fifth edition of either game.
Quote from: Jaeger on August 10, 2022, 01:42:30 PM
5e L5R was never going to be a good adaptation of OG L5R gameplay...
It's designer is a 4e fan.
They scrubbed a lot of the feudal Japan lore to make the 5e version more "generically Asian".
NuRogukan Is a fantasy anime fighting game wearing the L5R IP as a Skinsuit.
And they admit it:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZza80-WYAQSaQb?format=jpg&name=large)
Might as well call it Oriental Adventures 5E. There are so many problems with calling this 'L5R' or 'Rokugan'.
I admit I laughed out loud at 'Heroes might be members of the samurai clans iconic to L5R, but they might also be commoners, champions from faraway lands, or even members of other species not usually spotlighted in L5R.'
I am nowhere close to being a true L5R grognard and I know that sentence is hilariously wrong. Rokugan's theme has always been xenophobic as hell, and there are damned few options for PC races besides human.
Rokugan? More like Wokeugan.
Quote from: Persimmon on August 09, 2022, 06:19:23 PM
But Edge has apparently one-upped them by actually "prohibiting seppuku aka hara-kiri, or ritual suicide, in a game ostensibly grounded in samurai culture!
Are they prohibiting it in fan made adventures in their equivalent to DM'S Guild, or do they say "this is not present in our world?"
I mean, they could have just "left it out" in their book and let the DM do whatever they want, it's odd that they would make an effort to describe it just to say "Don't do it."
If your players/DMs don't want to involve that in their games, well, good for them. I mean, same thing for the Shadowlands or Gaijin invasion. Leave out the bits you're not interested in.
That's not the only aspect of Japanese culture they removed/replaced.
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 10, 2022, 03:02:08 PM
This was never intended to be a L5R book. It is a 5e D&D setting with all the gonzo bullshit that entails.
Then they shouldn't be calling it "Adventures in
Rokugan".
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on August 10, 2022, 06:33:46 PM
So, they can appropriate feudal Japan and then de-appropriate parts they don't like inside that culture.
Apparently.
Quote from: Ghostmaker on August 11, 2022, 05:27:34 PM
Might as well call it Oriental Adventures 5E.
It really is. And it blows my mind the same folks who were offended over reductive representations are now happy about reductive representations. The hypocrisy is maddening. Now I don't think such representations are necessarily bad. In fact I think they're all but unavoidable as
all representations in RPGs are remixed and reductive to some degree. But that just means it will always be a no win situation.
Quote from: hoshisabi on August 12, 2022, 09:50:46 PM
Quote from: Persimmon on August 09, 2022, 06:19:23 PM
But Edge has apparently one-upped them by actually "prohibiting seppuku aka hara-kiri, or ritual suicide, in a game ostensibly grounded in samurai culture!
Are they prohibiting it in fan made adventures in their equivalent to DM'S Guild, or do they say "this is not present in our world?"
They condemned it as too toxic to represent in any way.
In other words, they didn't just
remove it, they passed
judgment on it for everyone.
Quote from: Anon Adderlan on August 26, 2022, 06:19:55 AM
That's not the only aspect of Japanese culture they removed/replaced.
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 10, 2022, 03:02:08 PM
This was never intended to be a L5R book. It is a 5e D&D setting with all the gonzo bullshit that entails.
Then they shouldn't be calling it "Adventures in Rokugan".
Why not? Adventures in Middle Earth was never meant to be MERP. This is much the same.
I used to be a huge fan of L5R but this new edition killed it for me. Well soon as FFG got the license red flags were everywhere, like the setting was way too gay. I mean i expect some same sex stories but holy hell half the cast are alphabet people. Now that I have alot more experience in rpgs, it was never an amazing setting. It was just all we really had for a samurai game. As far as seppuku is concerned, it was always overplayed but to prohibit it's practice is equally as absurd. I remember playing or seeing games where everyone was just offing themselves at the drop of a hat, they wouldnt have any samurai left.
I was in the official or "official" discord i'm not sure if FFG claims that but it is where the L5R staff hang out too so it's official far as i'm concerned. Any deviation from the orthodoxy of what they believe L5R to be will cause them to start shrieking, I was trying to bounce an idea for a massive clan war for ascension to Shogun over the region kind of mirroring the sengoku period or any number of customs to adopt from actual period japanese history and was met with nonstop bitching about how it's "not actually japan"
Throw that on top of the settings quirks already like having an islander culture on what is closer to china in landmass and location, and the fact that the clans never actually war with each other, not really. That and everyone just plays a caricature of their clan/school, so if you tried to run a single clan game you'll end up with multiple identical pcs.
Yeah fuck that, I was looking at a few other games for my samurai fix like Bushido, Sengoku or using a more generic game to do it.
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 26, 2022, 09:29:35 AM
Quote from: Anon Adderlan on August 26, 2022, 06:19:55 AM
That's not the only aspect of Japanese culture they removed/replaced.
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 10, 2022, 03:02:08 PM
This was never intended to be a L5R book. It is a 5e D&D setting with all the gonzo bullshit that entails.
Then they shouldn't be calling it "Adventures in Rokugan".
Why not? Adventures in Middle Earth was never meant to be MERP. This is much the same.
Exactly.
You do realize your counterpoint only supports mine, right?